Did in America? Nicoline Larsen age 20 in 1880

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Topic:

Topic author: Mognes
Subject: Did in America? Nicoline Larsen age 20 in 1880
Posted on: 29/06/2015 12:56:17
Message:

Hi all,

I have found out that my great great grandma, Nicoline Larsen (born in 1859/1860), traveled to Chicago in 1880 with her husband, Theodor Tomas./Thomsen/Thomasen (born 1852) and one child, Ludvig Thomsen (born 1880).

They got two children in Chicago, Erling Thomsen (1884) and Emilie Elisabeth Thomsen (1886). However, they traveled back to Norway in 1886. Is it possible to find the birth papers (church papers) of Emilie and Erling? What did Theodor and Nicoline do while they lived there? Work and address of living place?

I appreciate all help I can get! :) (If this is the wrong place to ask for this, where else can i look?

Replies:

Reply author: JaneC
Replied on: 29/06/2015 15:38:52
Message:

Do you know why they went to Chicago? Did a friend or family member live there?

Family Search website might help.

Illinois cyberdrive genealogy databases might help:
https://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/departments/archives/gen_research.html

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 29/06/2015 15:57:41
Message:

At familysearch.org (a free site) there is a birth register of Cook county, Illinois for the dates of 1871-1915 which you could search.

For residence addresses and such you would need a city directory for Chicago for the dates that they were there. Also the ELCA databases (Evangelical Lutheran Churches which included many Norwegian Lutheran Churches) is at Ancestry and Archives.com. (I believe Ancestry has both such but it is a $ubscribing $ite)

At Archives.com you can take a trial membership of about a week in which you might search. Gardner is a town in Grundy county, Illinois Erling's baptism is there in a church identified at Gardner, Illinois. He was born 10 Feb 1884, bapt 11 May 1884 and his parents are Theo Thompson and wife Nicoline, faddernes are Elizabeth and Anne Hansen, Nicoline and Theo Thompson, Carl B?(Brathen maybe?), John Mathis, Hans Christiansen. Didn't find Emilie Elisabeth's baptism.

If they made it into the newspapers during their time there, genealogybank.com carries a Chicago paper for the time but it also is a subscribing site. Illinois Digital Newspaper is a free site and I think one Chicago paper is carried in it.

Reply author: AntonH
Replied on: 29/06/2015 16:27:38
Message:

I have searched these sites on Ancestry.com withoiut finding any entry for the birth of either of the two children.

"Cook County, Illinois, Birth Certificates Index, 1871-1922"

"U.S., Evangelical Lutheran Church of America, Records, 1875-1940"

Reply author: Hopkins
Replied on: 29/06/2015 17:13:18
Message:

The LDS Family History Library has microfilm copies of the city directories for Chicago, Cook Co., Illinois at that time. A city directory might list the head of the household, where he resided and possibly where he worked and/or his profession.
That library also has microform copies of many different church congregations in Chicago BUT not knowing WHICH church would prevent further information from that side of the research.

Microfilms from that system can be ordered to be sent to any Family History Center anywhere around the world - but those orders are not completely free. If you are visiting their main library in Salt Lake City, Utah, USA you can use any microfilm at no charge (minor charge for making copies).

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 29/06/2015 18:15:07
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by lyndal40

I have searched these sites on Ancestry.com withoiut finding any entry for the birth of either of the two children.


"U.S., Evangelical Lutheran Church of America, Records, 1875-1940"

---

Reply author: AntonH
Replied on: 29/06/2015 18:58:12
Message:

I thought so as well, The ELC data base on Ancestry.com has Bethany Church Gardner Illinois but no Erling in 1884 plus/minus 2 or any Thompson that is even remotely close.

Reply author: JaneC
Replied on: 29/06/2015 19:54:29
Message:

Here is the 1880 emigration record. The family sailed after the 1880 US census and thus will not appear in any US census record.
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/gen/vis/8/pe00000000942008

Emilie Elisabeth Thomsen's records in Norway should or may tell her full birth date and maybe birth place - for example the 1910 census.

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 29/06/2015 20:04:28
Message:

Emilie is working in 1910 outside her parents' home, birthdate and birthplace as Chicago:
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/en-gb/ft/person/pf01036392010513

However in 1900 she is living with her mother a woman named Elisabeth Nilsen, who would have been 60 when Emilie was born so unlikely to be Erling's and Emilie's mother) and brother Erling. Only Erling is given a Chicago birthplace:
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/en-gb/ft/person/pf01037045164555

Reply author: JaneC
Replied on: 29/06/2015 20:09:31
Message:

Came back with same 1910 census Jackie has posted:

Emilie Thomsen born 12 January 1886 Chicago.
Erling Thomsen born 10 Feb 1884 Chicago.

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 29/06/2015 20:15:33
Message:

Erling Thomsen in 1910:
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/en-gb/ft/person/pf01036392227805

The confirmation record for each of the kids may tell where they were actually baptized. In Erling's case it might be a situation similar to Norwegians in US, telling their origin as the nearest, biggest, most well-known city than where they were actually born.

Had Erling's and Emilie's parents died by 1900? Or perhaps some other family mishap --Nicoline dying before 1900? Here is a Theodor Thomsen born Stathelle (which is the same place as Elisabeth Nilson was born with whom the children were 1900.)

http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/en-gb/ft/person/pf01037045201805

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 29/06/2015 20:50:42
Message:

Here is the text part of the entry for Erling:

Erling Thompson
Birth Record
Birth Date
Feb 10, 84
Baptism Date
May 11, 1884
Baptism Location
Gardner, Illinois
Record Type
Birth Record
Record Source
Minutes
Church
Bethany Lutheran
Church Location
Gardner, IL
Event Type
baptism
Family Information
Theo Thompson
Father

I did page through 1886 baptisms but Emilie is not there.

Reply author: amyanderson75
Replied on: 30/06/2015 05:00:48
Message:

Name: Emilie Elisabeth Thommesen
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 18 Apr 1886
Christening Place: Oslo, Oslo, Norway
Father's Name: Theodor Thommesen
Mother's Name: Nikoline Larsen
Reference ID: Bok4 p161 #27 , System Origin: Norway-EASy , GS Film Number: 1282516 , Indexing Project (Batch) Number: I07476-9 ,

Reply author: amyanderson75
Replied on: 30/06/2015 05:10:29
Message:

Name: Theodor Thomassen
Birth Date: 10 Jan 1852
Spouse's Name: Nikoline Larsen
Spouse's Birth Date: 13 Feb 1859
Event Date: 26 Dec 1877
Event Place: Domkirken, Oslo, Akershus, Norway
Father's Name: Thomas Iversen
Spouse's Father's Name: Lars Larsen
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M42466-1 , System Origin: Norway-VR , GS Film number: 255752 , Reference ID: 2:R9RCFJ

Reply author: amyanderson75
Replied on: 30/06/2015 05:21:16
Message:

http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/en-gb/ft/person/pf01036392227805

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 30/06/2015 05:39:55
Message:

Thanks Amy! Emilie Elisabeth's baptism #27 on bottom half of page:
Source information: Oslo county, Oslo Domkirke / Vår Frelsers menighet, Parish register (official) nr. 29 (1879-1892), Birth and baptism records 1886, page 161.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=5806&idx_id=5806&uid=ny&idx_side=-168

Reply author: amyanderson75
Replied on: 30/06/2015 06:03:59
Message:

I am not sure if this is Nicoline or not:

http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/en-gb/ft/person/pf01038012007582

Reply author: kariellen
Replied on: 30/06/2015 08:47:22
Message:

Same topic in DIS slektsforum: http://www.disnorge.no/slektsforum/viewtopic.php?t=134527&highlight=

Mvh Kari

Reply author: JaneC
Replied on: 30/06/2015 15:45:40
Message:

Sad to see that the other forum found little Ludvig died one year old in June 1881 in Chicago, Cook county, Illinois. Here is the Illinois cyberdrive record:
http://www.ilsos.gov/isavital/deathSearch.do

Reply author: Mognes
Replied on: 01/07/2015 11:59:58
Message:

This is awesome! What you guys found :D

Nicoline and Theodor travels toghether, and as it seams like, they get two children while living there and had one child befor. Who might have died un the US only 1 years old. Hard to confirm that. They must have lived in Gardner!

It would be fun to know where they lived and what they worked with, but maybe a bit hard to fin from Norway.

You are wondering when they go back to Norway and what happens. Nicoline finds herself a new husband (becomes Nicoline Sundby), and get five more children with him. Though she don't take care of here first children, nor her new children. Erlend lives with Nicoline in 1905, thats all i know ( http://arkivverket.no/URN:db_read/ft/65525/51367/?size=medium&mode=0 ) Theodor also remarrieds.

Nicoline was a really bad midwife and a horrable person, as far as i can see. She was i jail in 1900. 32 women testify against her.

Amyanderson: Nicoline Larsdatter that you found is the right Nicoline :).

It has been really hard to find all the information about her since she uses different names and birthdates.

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 01/07/2015 16:02:55
Message:

What was Nicoline's crime?

Reply author: JaneC
Replied on: 01/07/2015 19:44:53
Message:

Checked city directories at Ancestry.com, found no certain listing for Theodore Thompson (or similar), though there were several people of that name.

Nicoline's birth 05 Jan in Gjerdrum #9 (1859 page but a notation of something 1858?):
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20061102040349.jpg


Nicoline Sundby in 1900:
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/ft/person/pf01037045221703


Nikoline Sundby in 1910, listed as born 05 Jan 1864:
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/ft/person/pf01036392132321

Geni family tree:
http://www.geni.com/people/Nikoline-Sundby/6000000011998063071

The Geni tree above calls her Nikoline Johansen, born 05 Jan 1864. Odd.

Reply author: kariellen
Replied on: 01/07/2015 19:48:05
Message:

According to the Newspaper Fredrikstad Tilskuer she got 6 months in prison for
"rufferi" which usually meant she would have let rooms at high prices to prostitutes and their activities. In addition she got another 2 months and 20 days for "fraud against various childmothers"

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 01/07/2015 23:32:37
Message:

I know it sounds odd but people who get into trouble often leave behind all sorts of interesting records for genealogists....

Reply author: JaneC
Replied on: 02/07/2015 06:05:30
Message:

Yes, about records. Odd that Nicoline Larsen is called Nicoline Johansen on that Geni tree.

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 02/07/2015 15:36:53
Message:

Even though he's listed as Lars on her baptismal, maybe his name was Lars Johan Larsen, so which name do you use Lars or Johan or Lars Johan?

On the other hand, aliases are often employed when you want to escape detection.

Reply author: Mognes
Replied on: 07/07/2015 10:24:55
Message:

Yes, she was hosting for prostitutes and acting like a midwife and taking in poor girls that where pregnant outside marriages. However, she was horrible to those poor girls. There were 32 girls testifyeing against her in the trial! Most of here children ends up in childcare. She is leaving a lot of trails, yes! But hard to find in the beginning though, due to her aliases!

My grandfather called her Nicoline Johansen. I am not sure why. Though she uses all kinds of names and births, I can never see her use Nicoline Johansen in any papers. Maybe my grandfather didn't want me to find them or something.

Why she turned out to be an drunk self-thought midwife I may never know. But loosing a child must have been hard for her! She supposedly dies young, but find no records of it. But this i why I am so curios about they're stay in the US, what happend to her!

Thank you all for very good help and theories! :D This is very exciting to find out!

Norway Heritage Community : http://www.norwayheritage.com/snitz/