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jungfigh
Senior member
Malta
326 Posts |
 Posted - 14/11/2013 : 12:17:17
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| I still await further certificates which MAY give Cristian's full date and place of birth..fingers crossed for this very long search...Thank-you all once again. |
DL. ;o) Malta. G.C. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 14/11/2013 : 13:57:59
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quote:
Originally posted by jungfigh
Could you geographic historians confirm that Halden could have been miscronstrued as Walden..?
Unlikely, Derek, as in the most of the 1800s it was known as Fredrikshald not Halden. Your family memory of the place was "Lauden Vordner" and the official record was "Walden."
If you go back to when the Kristian T______ s were being discussed you'll probably find a lot of same names from the latter familysearch find.
The ultimate problem with any of this is the true lack of biographical records on him in Britain. There is not much to compare it with between records generated in Norway and those generated in England.
So far none of the candidates have "got legs." Personally, the one which I think most compelling is the Kristian Elias Danielson Stømme from Volden. The things which need to be pursued with him would be:
1) Dødsfallprotokol of his mother Johanne who died in 1900. Secondarily the dødsfallprotokol of his father who died in 1942 and on the outside the dødsfallprotokol of any unmarried sibling who died close to the date he ceased appearing in the records about 1898. Trouble is no dødsfallprotokols for Sunnmore (the district where Strømme, or Kile the farms the family lived upon are located) are yet online. Maybe they don't exist? I don't know.
2) Living descendants of Kristian Elias Danielson's siblings, probably still in the Volda region of Norway. The new bydebøker for Volda would be a help with this and possibly the 1970s version as well. There about 2 dozen folks who carry the last name Strømme in Volda. Strømme was transformed to Straume so that name needs search as well. Likely some are relatives.
3)The story in the new Volda book has the elder brother Ananias going to England and Kristian going to America. I've looked very extensively in US records and none of the Christian Stromme there to look like they could be him. Likewise, though I haven't found Ananias in either the English records nor the American records. We are awaiting a nod from the editor of the new Volda book as to the source of the information published on the 2 brother's travel.
4) Since the brother Ananias is a sailor it begs the question that Kristian Elias is a sailor as well. Whatever agency is in charge of the sailor rolls from Volda is the one to contact regards this. This is a hard search but Volda is a small place to be from so maybe not so many records. |
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David Yaw
Medium member
United Kingdom
128 Posts |
Posted - 14/11/2013 : 14:10:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Kåarto
Christian was an engineer "Motormann" in Norwegian
Not sure if or where an engineer school was taken place in Norway ca 1900.
You started on level one as "Maskingutt" an apprentice, and then promoted to "Smører" an finally "Motormann" Engineer when you was trained and level 4 was chief engineer (ships officer).
The engineer supported/helped the chief engineer.
It was the chief engineer who promoted a "smører" to "motormann" engineer
Kåre
I am at the National Archives in Kew, SW London today. I checked out this suggestion from Kare. I searched for combinations of C(h)ristian, Kristian, T(h)om(p)son and Tromm - unfortunately with no positive result to report . For the record, the particular TNA databases I viewed were :
BT141/7, Registry of Shipping & Seamen, Indexes to Registers of Certificates of Competency & Service Engineers.
BT352, Index to Certificates of Competency, Masters, Mates, Engineers & Fishing Oficers, Home & Foreign Trade.
Derek, there mayb be other records and databases at Southampton - have these been checked out. ?? |
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jungfigh
Senior member
Malta
326 Posts |
Posted - 15/11/2013 : 06:05:24
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With regard your last para. David:
I do have a further search to make at the Southampton archives, that is pending till I receive my first certificate which may void the subsequent search.
As said earlier: Cristian certainly is an enigma, but, as with all evidence, it (he) is there to be found. |
DL. ;o) Malta. G.C. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 17/11/2013 : 08:25:15
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Looking at the lately generated list of Kristians from familysearch (This is just to clarify. I took the birthdates recorded in the familysearch records and input into the 1910 Norwegian census search engine. Some produced no results--no person of the name or birthplace on the date.) :
KRISTIAN THOMESEN b Halden 1882-07-23 there is a Kristian Berg b Tistedalen on that date in the 1910 census. Tistedalen is now a neighborhood in Halden, originally started some 4 km from the center of Halden.
KRISTIAN THORVALD THOMASSEN b. Bremsnes 1882-12-30
Found no Kristian or Christian (of any or every last name) b. that date nor Kristian or Christian Thomassen born (any date) in Bremsnes.
CHRISTIAN JØRGEN THOMASSEN b. Tomter 1881-10-20
There are 2 Kristians born that date 1 born Hobøl, 1 born Hadeland. Found no Christian born that place or date.
KRISTIAN THOMASSEN b. Fjel 1881-10-18
Found neither Kristian nor Christian (of any last name) b Fjel either Fjel or born that date
CHRISTIAN BERNARD THOMASEN b. Buskerud 1884-05-26
Found no Christian Thomassen b. that date. Found 1 Kristian Berg b. that date but the place is given as Furnes.
KRISTIAN THOMASSEN b. Ringebu 1884-10-12
Found 3 Kristian born (of any or every last name) that date but none born Ringebu. Found no Christian (of any or every last name) born that date. |
Edited by - jkmarler on 17/11/2013 16:46:47 |
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jungfigh
Senior member
Malta
326 Posts |
Posted - 17/11/2013 : 10:25:04
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| Thank-you Jackie...your tenacity and investigative powers are very impressive. I'm sure if Cristian hasn't already been mentioned in this thread we're not far away from finding him. Southampton may hold the key. |
DL. ;o) Malta. G.C. |
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jungfigh
Senior member
Malta
326 Posts |
Posted - 20/11/2013 : 11:12:39
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quote:
Originally posted by jungfigh
Thank-you Jackie...your tenacity and investigative powers are very impressive. I'm sure if Cristian hasn't already been mentioned in this thread we're not far away from finding him. Southampton may hold the key.
I haven't forgotten Cristian:
Many phone calls made to UK and still await Southampton's findings.
Fingers crossed. |
DL. ;o) Malta. G.C. |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 20/11/2013 : 12:40:58
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quote:
Originally posted by jungfigh
haven't forgotten Cristian:
Many phone calls made to UK and still await Southampton's findings.
Fingers crossed.
You are not alone to keep fingers crossed Derek
Kåre |
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jungfigh
Senior member
Malta
326 Posts |
Posted - 20/11/2013 : 14:21:52
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| Thank-you Kåre. |
DL. ;o) Malta. G.C. |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 20/11/2013 : 23:30:33
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Regarding Halden:
The city was named Fredrikshald between 1665-1928. Thus; Fredrikshald would probably be the cityname anyone would use in records up until 1928... |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 21/11/2013 : 15:03:30
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quote:
Originally posted by jungfigh
came up with the 6 following possibilities:-
Kristian Thomesen
Norway, Baptisms, 1634-1927
birth: 23 July 1882
christening: 27 August 1882 HALDEN, OSTFOLD, NORWAY
residence: 1882 Halden, Ostfold, Norway
father: Thomas Marinius Bernhard Thomesen
mother: Trine Amalie Harby
Best wishes
David.
This Kristian Thomesen can be excluded.
He was married in Idd at Halden under the name Kristian Berg in 1910
Kåre |
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jungfigh
Senior member
Malta
326 Posts |
Posted - 22/11/2013 : 05:52:49
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Thank-you Kåre. Another off the list.
Nil desperandum..! |
DL. ;o) Malta. G.C. |
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jungfigh
Senior member
Malta
326 Posts |
Posted - 22/11/2013 : 11:12:39
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quote:
Originally posted by jwiborg
Regarding Halden:
The city was named Fredrikshald between 1665-1928. Thus; Fredrikshald would probably be the cityname anyone would use in records up until 1928...
Good morning Jan Peter,
Halden/Walden as shewn on the certificate of deceased seamen:
Would this name have been used by emigres as an abbreviation or 'local' interpretation, as Berks. in England for Berkshire..? As you know there are many more locations in the UK who abbreviate their names as such. Is something being missed in the translation somewhere...Could Cristian have ' re-invented ' himself for whatever reason..? |
DL. ;o) Malta. G.C. |
Edited by - jungfigh on 22/11/2013 11:14:31 |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 23/11/2013 : 20:54:22
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quote:
Originally posted by jungfigh
Good morning Jan Peter,
Halden/Walden as shewn on the certificate of deceased seamen:
Would this name have been used by emigres as an abbreviation or 'local' interpretation, as Berks. in England for Berkshire..? As you know there are many more locations in the UK who abbreviate their names as such. Is something being missed in the translation somewhere...Could Cristian have ' re-invented ' himself for whatever reason..?
It could be. I don't really know whether they used "Halden" locally before the official change in 1928. A local historian should answer that question. |
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jungfigh
Senior member
Malta
326 Posts |
Posted - 24/11/2013 : 06:39:48
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| Trying to 'keep an open mind' on this Jan Peter my thoughts keep wandering back to a possible false name. |
DL. ;o) Malta. G.C. |
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Christain Tromm
