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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
 Posted - 29/10/2014 : 00:00:36
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| From Derek's memory of his aunt's journal and Frank's father's note on pg 31. |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 29/10/2014 : 00:17:35
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Sounds to me like it could be Strømme...
There are hundreds of clues pointing towards Christian Danielsen Strømme in this case, I doubt you will find a better match within the next 10 years... |
Edited by - jwiborg on 29/10/2014 00:18:09 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 29/10/2014 : 00:34:04
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Yes, we somewhat joked back in the thread that perhaps Christian had a lisp and made Strømme into Thromme.
There are a multitude of small insignificant details which tie the two Kristian and Christian together--so there is a weight of circumstantial evidence, beside the matching birthdate and home place.
As to the variations of Volden Laudnor and vice versa, I'm convinced that it is someone's memory of having seen and remembered a hand written Volden, Søndmør. as the place is often recorded.
But in this case as in most all of the "insoluble" mysteries, the two best pieces to connect Christian with his origins were back home in England. So my advice to Derek is to continue looking into English official records and really hit up all his fellow cousins for the odd document or letter which might put his mind to rest about the man. |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 29/10/2014 : 20:06:33
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page 3: The source for the lastname Tromm: My Auntie Marge (the 4th of Maud's daughter's) had it documented as such in an old journal, like my Aunt, long gone, unfortunately no date of his birth. She also had written down that Grandfather hailed from Lauden Vordner. Norway. I believe there is no such place.
page 30/31: Amongst photographs, etc. Cousin Frank sent a copy of a piece of paper (I'm having trouble posting it here). Written thereon: Kristan Thromme...Tomsen. Died 1920. VOLDEN LAUDNOR Norway. This is Cousin Frank's dad Franks' recollection of his father.
I agree that is could be Volden, Søndmør (or Sundmør), or as we say today; Volda, Sunnmøre, where Christian Danielsen Strømme was born on 02 Nov 1882.
Notice how the lastname Strømme is written in his christening record.... If you don't notice the capital S, it could look like Thomme. |
Edited by - jwiborg on 29/10/2014 20:13:41 |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 29/10/2014 : 22:11:39
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You're preaching to the choir, Jan Peter. We love that paper trail - including some who said so before but haven't posted these last few days.
Reasonable that earlier was mentioned that somewhere in the line of person #1 or person #2 could be a non-paternal event, unknown. This could be hanky panky by the mother, but most often such events are silent (not talked about) adoptions. This scenario is unlikely.
OR
Frank and Finn are paternally related but their Y-DNA is freakishly mismatched, at the first 37 markers. The lab allows a minimal probability of that. This scenario is unlikely.
The remedy for both the above is testing more people and/or expanding the current test to cover more markers & but only in consultation with the lab. Derek said he wrote to them and will report back.
OR
Finn and Frank are not related closely (not within the past 3 generations). This scenario is likely.
In which case one attempts to build a new paper trail, and Jackie advised about that.
AND/OR
An option that seems quite doubtful as to making any gain:
Derek takes an autosomal DNA test, as one person proposed. Several factors make it UNLIKELY to find a match at FTDNA that way - one would hope for a random hit. But as far as we can guess, Kristian's family in Norway know themselves, if none other emigrated, as might possibly MAYBE be the case. Just guessing, but often family members this recent have not lost the family knowledge. Seemingly Kristian had no siblings in the UK - emphasis on the seemingly - meaning, possibly, only his offspring will seek their Norwegian roots through DNA testing and a random hit (with another, unknown tester) is unlikely. Also the autosomal tests as genealogy tools are very new, which adds to the likelihood of no matches on an autosomal test. Folks have only had 3-4 years to do one.
I have FTDNA lab in mind, in above comments. Whether odds of matching an unknown individual increase at a lab in Norway, I don't know.
Re doing an autosomal test on Derek rather than Frank - reason why is that test will look at DNA from both parents and Derek's mother has contributed to his gene pool in that regard. Problem is, genes are NOT handed down fairly - half from mom, half from dad. They recombine during the "make a kid" process. Could be small percentage of this or that from mom and big percentage from dad, etc. So it's not a tidy picture like the male to male to male line.
Time may make a difference in access to more paper trail clues and DNA as a kin finder. |
Edited by - JaneC on 30/10/2014 18:09:22 |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 30/10/2014 : 12:53:14
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Before we continue the DNA track, it would be nice to collect all info that is found about Christain Tromm in one post, to compare all that info with Christian Elias Danielsen Strømme from Volden, Sunnmøre.
From the first page of this topic, CHRISTAIN THOMPSON is noted with an initial "C".... Is the original document for that info investigated? Could the "C" rather be an E (for Elias) or D (for Danielsen)? |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 30/10/2014 : 19:07:05
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quote:
Originally posted by jwiborg
Today I've been in contact again with one of the editors of the Volda farm history books. And he forwarded me to one of the descendants of Alfred Straume, Kristian's younger brother.
The descendant was happy for my contact, because he has been pondering about these brothers for years. His thoughts is that the first editor (Aarviknes) mixed up on the brothers; probably Daniel Johannes og Ananias Johannes. (But he later says it could be Kristian and Ananias...)
And that the fault had been copied over to the new volume.
It was only one of Alfreds daughters (Kari) that remembered the marriage in England (or rather "Shetland or Orkney islands" ?), but she was already quite ill when the book came out.
She said her uncle drowned on the sea when she was a little girl, and that they had received a letter from the widow, in english, asking for help to the children whom she now was alone with.
But she was quite sure that the book had it wrong, she ment that it was Ananias that died in America. The story about him is that he was heading home to Norway, left a train on the homeward trip, and was hit by a crossing train in the next lane.
As they had understood it, the English family should have been a fishing family on the islands, and that he drowned while fishing. The people who received the letter was Daniel and his second wife Synnøve.
The editors/authors I've been in contact with regarding this is Arnfinn Kjelland and Olav Myklebust. The information they had on this family was copied directly from the Volume made by Aarviknes.
From page 22, Posted - 07/12/2013 : 23:07:39
Can Ananias be found in America? Tacoma, Wash. could be a starting place. Several Strømme emigrated to that area, including their brother
blacksmith Per (Peder) Mathias Danielsen Strømme b. 1885. He emigrated to America on 18 Mar 1909, but returned to Norway before the 1910 Norwegian census, which says he has been in Tacoma. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2014 : 00:38:15
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quote:
Originally posted by jwiborg
[quote]Originally posted by jwiborg
Can Ananias be found in America? Tacoma, Wash. could be a starting place. Several Strømme emigrated to that area, including their brother
blacksmith Per (Peder) Mathias Danielsen Strømme b. 1885. He emigrated to America on 18 Mar 1909, but returned to Norway before the 1910 Norwegian census, which says he has been in Tacoma.
As I recall both Jane and I looked for Ananias quite extensively. But here is his baptismal record, #8. His given name was Annanias Johannes, so perhaps he "ditched" Ananias and used Johannes?
Source information: Møre og Romsdal county, Volda in Volda, Parish register copy nr. 511C03 (1864-1884), Birth and baptism records 1880, page 267.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=15961&idx_id=15961&uid=ny&idx_side=-237 |
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David Yaw
Medium member
United Kingdom
128 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2014 : 20:24:50
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This seven year search for Cristian/Kristian’s origins has generated one of the longest running threads on the Heritage Community site. Research by many posters has ranged far and wide, even to the extent of detailed DNA testing. Derek and Frank seem to be tantalisingly close to having “found” him – yet that final clue to bring “certainty” remains elusive.
Today, the Sunday closest to 11 November –as every year - here in UK we are commemorating the end of WW1. In his career with the police, Derek may well have been on duty at some of these sombre and moving ceremonies which occur all over the country.
This year is special because it marks the centenary of the outbreak of the war. At the Tower of London, around 800,000 ceramic poppies have been “planted” – one for each of the British and Commonwealth service-men and –women killed in that war.
Although Norway was officially neutral in WW1, she nevertheless lost around half her merchant fleet and over 2000 Norwegian seamen were killed in those sinkings.
Through all the twists and turns of this search for Cristian, one of the few certainties we have is that he served in the British Army on the Western Front and survived – only to lose his life after hostilities ceased when the Campanula, the fishing vessel he served on, brought up a mine which exploded killing all those on board.
The monument to Merchant Seamen lost on British vessels during and immediately after WW1 is on Tower Hill close to the Tower of London. Cristian and the crew of the Campanula are commemorated thereon.
I thought it was appropriate that today we should remember Cristian, his shipmates and all the other merchant seamen from Norway and indeed elsewhere who lost their lives in that conflict.
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jungfigh
Senior member
Malta
326 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2014 : 05:20:38
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Good morning David,
Thank-you for that.
" Lest We Forget " is a very appropriate quotation at this time of year.
The photographs you supplied are stunning.
We watched the Cenotaph Service and march-past yesterday.
A marvellous gesture to Her Majesty on leading her family in: The spontaneous applause from the public. I can't recall that ever happening before. |
DL. ;o) Malta. G.C. |
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jungfigh
Senior member
Malta
326 Posts |
Posted - 16/12/2014 : 22:40:37
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Derek has asked me to put this message on the site to let you all know that he is currently in hospital after undergoing an abdominal operation and doesn't yet know when he will be discharged.
He wishes you all a very merry christmas and a happy, healthy new year.
Kind regards
Lyn
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DL. ;o) Malta. G.C. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 16/12/2014 : 23:29:19
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| Get Well, Buddy! |
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jungfigh
Senior member
Malta
326 Posts |
Posted - 14/01/2015 : 18:15:49
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Thank-you Jackie.
A Happy New Year to you all.
I'm pleased to report I am now back on board.
It's been a while since I visited Kristian's site therefore a bit rusty, so, I intend to go back to the original entry and start over, hoping the old grey matter will get a nudge. |
DL. ;o) Malta. G.C. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 16/01/2015 : 19:29:35
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| Welcome back, Derek! |
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jungfigh
Senior member
Malta
326 Posts |
Posted - 14/02/2015 : 05:52:43
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A belated thank-you Jackie.
It's a month since my last posting, not wasted but exhausting ploughing through the 48 pages and thousands of entries in Kristian's thread. Very interesting all the same re-reading all that was written previously...Alas to say I have not turned up 'anything new' during investigations.
Any of you stalwarts have further advice/ideas..? |
DL. ;o) Malta. G.C. |
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Christain Tromm
