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royschoneman
Starting member

USA
24 Posts

Posted - 24/01/2011 :  19:40:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Erik,

Thank you. I am always surprised how often Norwegians went back to Norway. My grandfather was a barber and would work his passage by barbering as a crew member. His siblings and cousins constantly went back for visits. To my knowledge, none of my other ancestors from Sweden, Denmark, Germany and Ireland ever went back to Europe.
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Erik Carsten
Advanced member

USA
534 Posts

Posted - 24/01/2011 :  20:11:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Roy, you are welcome. Thank JC for her digligent efforts!

I wanted to discuss with you another point that we have touched on in the past, and that is why did Fredrik and Anna Reese leave Denmark and move to Norway?

What I found interesting is that the family was living in northern Jutland in 1864 when the Second Schlewig War broke out and during the War the Prussian army occupied virtually ALL of Jutland peninsula.

Denmark had therefore lost its mainland and they risked losing their islands as well. They had no choice but to surrender and the defeat was a bitter and traumatizing event for the Danes, who lost a great many lives and alot of rich territory. Anti-German sentiment as a result was high. Could this have affected Fredrik’s (German speaking from Kiel) business and the family’s economic welfare?

Regarding our thoughts that the changing national boundaries due to the War caused the official records of the three children born in Denmark (census/ birth etc). to be at odds with each other.....as sometimes they would indicated Danish backgrounds and others German.

In fact, all of the children were born in territory that remained part of Denmark after the Treaty of Vienna was signed in 1864. At no time where they born in territory that became part of the Prussian empire.



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royschoneman
Starting member

USA
24 Posts

Posted - 24/01/2011 :  21:40:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Eric,

Perhaps some of the Reese contacts we make will have an idea of why they left Denmark.

Your comment about anti-German sentiments reminds me that a few years ago, I put out a request on the Norway mailing list for information about my grandfather Arthur Karl Schønemann. A woman answered me asking why I was inquiring about a German on the Norway list. I responded that he was born in Kristiana so didn't that make him Norwegian? She answered (with some heat) that she didn't care where he was born, he was a GERMAN! I got the point.

Roy
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Erik Carsten
Advanced member

USA
534 Posts

Posted - 24/01/2011 :  21:44:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Roy,
That is very telling....and perhaps why in the 1865 census...with the defeat of Denmark still very fresh in Scandanavian minds.....that they may have told the Census Taker they were all Danish (from Denmark) just out of convenience?

Just a thought. Who knows....it is all purely speculation but interesting to think about.
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Erik Carsten
Advanced member

USA
534 Posts

Posted - 27/01/2011 :  00:54:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Kåre
In a Trondheim phone book I see the following words and abbreviations after some names. What do they mean?

lagerbtj.
frk.
handl.
eksp.

thank you.
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran

Norway
3914 Posts

Posted - 27/01/2011 :  01:06:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
lagerbtj. = storesman
frk. = Miss
handl. = tradesman
eksp. = counterman
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Erik Carsten
Advanced member

USA
534 Posts

Posted - 27/01/2011 :  01:22:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank you Jan Peter.
How about?

frugt- & cigarforr
pakkerske.....

thank you.
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Erik Carsten
Advanced member

USA
534 Posts

Posted - 29/01/2011 :  18:34:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Roy and JC!

Laurine Mathilde Reese has been found!. Here is the birth of her daughter Sigrid Fredrikke "Hagen"

Father: Albert Fredrik Hagen
Mother: Laurine Mathilde Stefanine ReeseBirth of Sigrid "Reese" Hagen.....#34 Girls Section
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Erik Carsten
Advanced member

USA
534 Posts

Posted - 29/01/2011 :  18:37:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Roy and JC....

Here is the family living in Trondheim in 1900.

I don't know what the relation of Tea (Syerske) and Kasbara (Maskerske)

1900 Norwegian National Census for 1601 Trondheim....Hagen Family
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran

Norway
4851 Posts

Posted - 29/01/2011 :  19:17:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Erik.

Occ, Syerske - Seamstress
Occ. Maskerske - Seamstress in a clothing factory.

"Fam stilling" Family status "fl", lodger and familymember.

Kåre
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran

Norway
3914 Posts

Posted - 29/01/2011 :  20:00:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
frugt- & cigarforr = fruit- & cigar store
pakkerske = female packer
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Erik Carsten
Advanced member

USA
534 Posts

Posted - 29/01/2011 :  21:38:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

Hi Roy,

I knew that name Albert Hagen sounded familiar....

He was the "best man" for August Dahl when he married Louise Reese. He is listed in the marriage register, which was posted earlier.
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Erik Carsten
Advanced member

USA
534 Posts

Posted - 29/01/2011 :  22:48:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
other baptisms of Albert and Laurine Hagen's children

1. Borghild Lovise Hagen. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=2351&idx_id=2351&uid=ny&idx_side=-143Borghild Hagen #34 Girl's Section (born Dec 10. 1903[/url

2. Anna Wilhemine Hagen http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=2351&idx_id=2351&uid=ny&idx_side=-228" target="_blank">#43 Girl's SEction, born November 25, 1905

3. Fredrik b. 2-25-2907 according to 1910 census but can't find his birth record.....

Edited by - Erik Carsten on 09/02/2011 01:57:08
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Erik Carsten
Advanced member

USA
534 Posts

Posted - 30/01/2011 :  03:16:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank you Jan Peter and Kare

I think we will need some of your expertise. because I am stuck with the resources I have access to. Do you have access to additional tools to help identify what ever became of the following individuals.

I am looking for any possible living ancestors of this branch of the family. This family is living in Trondheim in 1900 and 1910 Norwegian Census information.

Albert Hagen b. October-5-1871
Laurine Mathilde Stephanine Reese b. May 30, 1873
Astrid Hagen b. June 20, 1895 (USA)
Sigrid Hagen b. October 25, 1897
Borghild Hagen b. December 10, 1903
Anna Hagen b . November 25, 1905
Fredrik Hagen b. February 25, 1907

thank you.

Edited by - Erik Carsten on 30/01/2011 18:15:16
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran

Norway
4851 Posts

Posted - 30/01/2011 :  16:46:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Need time to search search for the Hagen family.

The two seamstress sisters Thea (Thea Gunhilde) and Kasbara (Kaspara Sofie) were perhaps Albert Hagen´s nieces or sisters.

Thea b. Aug. 27. 1876 and Kaspara b. April 4. 1880, both bap in Vår Frue church Trondheim,
Parents Thrond (Nicolaisen) Hagen and Ingeborg Andersdatter.

Both Trond and Albert Hagen occ. "Maler" Painter, both born in Trondheim.

Thrond and Ingeborg Hagen born in Orkdal lived in Namsos town 1900 with a daughter Nikoline Anette born in Vesterålen

Kåre

Edited by - Kåarto on 30/01/2011 16:53:11
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