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Erik Carsten
Advanced member

USA
534 Posts

Posted - 24/09/2009 :  21:21:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Carsten

Hi Kaarto and anybody who might be interested. This is a very sad story but there was a boy named Fredrik who died in 1903 at the age of 10. The story in the family is he- along with a brother died by ingesting some kind of poison.

I have found the church record of Fredrik's birth. He was the son of Theodore Andreas Helgesen b.1870 and Lovise Marie Reese b. 1870. Fredrik is here....Birth of Fredrik #62 (Bakklandt-Bakke 1893-1900)

I have found the church record of Fredrik's death. He is here....Fredrik Helgesen #52

There was also another boy who died. HIs name was Laurtiz. A record of his death can be found immediately after that of Fredrik...above. He was the son of John Andreas Olsen Schjelvan b. 1833 and Louise Oline Olsen b. 1868. Here is a record of this childs birth here....Friend of Fredrik (Lauritz Skjelvan ) who died on same day #73 (Birth Record)

Here is Lauritz's Family 1900 Census here...... and...Here is Fredriks family in 1900 Census here...

I guess my question is this. The cause of death of the two boys was tuberculosis or meningitis? Can poison cause this? Are these two deaths linked?

The other question I have is are these two boys related in any way.

The family story says that the mother lost 2 sons, but as I see it she lost her son and then there was her son's friend.

Thank you.
Erik.


Edited by - Erik Carsten on 24/09/2009 22:24:55
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Hopkins
Norway Heritage Veteran

USA
2832 Posts

Posted - 24/09/2009 :  23:05:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It might make good sense for you to seek out and ask these questions of medically trained persons. I know that both tuberculosis and meningitis are very contagious and both can kill but that is the extent of my knowledge.

To know if the two boys are related you will have to investigate the ancestry of both and compare that research.
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Erik Carsten
Advanced member

USA
534 Posts

Posted - 24/09/2009 :  23:41:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello Hopkins. Yes, I will do that. The problem I am having is I cannot locate Church or Census records for the father of Fredrik, (Theodore Andreas Olsen b. 1870?)

I cannot find his birth-record, nor can I find his death record.

He is not living with the family in the 1900 Census. He must have died sometime between 1893 (birth of his son Fredrik) and the Census in 1900.

The Church Record of his son's Fredrik's death has a notation next to his fathers name. There is a cross and it appears the date is 11/1900? This is possible since I understand the 1900 Census was undertaken in December of that year. The family "oral" history has Theodore Andreas dying in a fishing accident.

If there is a connection I believe it to between the fathers. Lovise was from Oslo. I will continue to investigate.

Thank you.
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Wilben Dahl
New on board

USA
3 Posts

Posted - 25/09/2009 :  05:46:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Carsten

Hello Mr. Dahl:
This is a very nice surprise to receive a message from you. Thank you for your information! Are you located in Norway? Who was your Grandfather from the Dahl lineage?

Regarding Simon Braekken. I am not sure about his relationship to Siri Andersdatter Braek. According to the 1875 census it shows that Simon was born in Vaage Præstegjeld Gulbransdalen. This is some distance from Horrig?

Also, in my research I believe that Anders married a Berit Arentsdatter before he married Gunnhild. I believe they may have had a child Siri born in 1819? but she may have died young as the next child born in 1824 was also named Sirri, but parents were Anders and Gunnhild. Do you know anything about this?


Thank you.
Erik.

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Wilben Dahl
New on board

USA
3 Posts

Posted - 25/09/2009 :  05:49:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello Erik

Sorry I got your name wrong, and sorry it took me so long to respond. I am new at this site and just checked back. I did not expect your prompt reply.

I live in Anchorage Alaska, my father emigrated from Norway in 1903, and came to Alaska in 1910. He was the only son of Halvor Anderson Nordtømme Dahl to settle in Alaska, and the only one of the Nordtømme line that I know of. Two of his brothers settled in Texas. As was the case with most Norwegian families, about twenty percent of the family came to the United States or Canada.

My knowledge of Norway is limited, and based on what contact I have had with relatives that recently emigrated and one that lives there and speaks/writes very good English. As I pointed out in my first message, Braekkan or Brekkan. This is a family that originates in Sors Tu, Bræk, near Soknedal, Midtre Gauldal, Norway. The family name revolves about “Bræk” with many variations of spelling. I believe it to be a farm or farming area. It shows on most maps.

Like you, I do not know of a connection between, Simon and other people using that name. I am sure that you know that there may not be any connection. You did not have to be connected to the owner family to use the reference name. The number of parallels, strongly suggest that there is a connection.

You are correct. Anders had a child with his first cousin, Berit Arentsdatter. They never married and had a single child named -Sigrid (Siri) Anna Andersdatter Nordtømme.

Siri, married Halvor Petersen Evjen Midtlyng Sørtømme, and they had several children, and many decendents. Although I do not know for sure, it has been my assumption that Berit raised their child Siri, and Anders later, also named one of his daughters Siri. If you do not already know, you may find it interesting that, the original farm was Tømme. It was divided in half, when Anders’ father, Rasmus Ellevsen Vold bought the north half. He called his farm Nordtømme, nord being north, and Sør means south.

As the Nordtømme branch moved from the farm, some used Dale or Dahl in connection with Nordtømme, and slowly dropped the “Nordtømme”, although at least one continued to use Nordtømme, and emigrated using that name.

This is rather complicated, so I hope I am explaining it in an understandable way. I will be happy to provide any information that I am able to.

Wilben Halvor Dahl
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran

Norway
5476 Posts

Posted - 25/09/2009 :  07:43:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
I have not been able to find any information on torberg and Sivert. Torberg would have been born in støren and Siver most likely was born in Bakklandet. Help anyone?
- Torberg was born in Støren, see #15

Einar
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran

Norway
5476 Posts

Posted - 25/09/2009 :  08:17:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Hi Jan Peter, can you make out the name of the first sponsor...do you read Marie Dahl? but what is the prefix before the name?

Since Jan Peter has not responded to your question, I take the liberty to offer the help.
As I see it #73 Johan Peter Thomas would be an Iversen, not a Dahl since the father was factoryworker Iver Andreas Hellesen.
The first sponsor was "Kone" (wife) Anne Støp. The others are Madam Karen Dahl, Pige Marie Dahl, Trompeter Henrik Støp, Smed Sivert Dahl and Bødker Rudolf Margido Nordbreck.

Einar
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran

Norway
5476 Posts

Posted - 25/09/2009 :  19:50:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
I am going to request a delete of my post that prompted your response. could you do the same for your post?

Done.

Einar
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Erik Carsten
Advanced member

USA
534 Posts

Posted - 28/09/2009 :  17:20:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Kare. I was hoping maybe you or another researcher could translate what is written after the name of the father, Theodor Andreas Helgesen. I am wondering if there is anything significant in the text. Thank you.

Here is the link. #62 (Record of Fredrik's Birth)
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Erik Carsten
Advanced member

USA
534 Posts

Posted - 28/10/2009 :  20:52:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Eibache.

Can you give me some help in reading entry # 94?

I believe it is Johan Hakon. According to familysearch.org, his parents were Anders Torbergsen Rambrout and Siri Sivertsdatter. Do you make this out as well? Also, can you make out any names of the witnesses?

Thank you.


Johan Hakon #94birth record (Domkirken-Trondheim) here....
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Erik Carsten
Advanced member

USA
534 Posts

Posted - 28/10/2009 :  21:19:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello again, Eibache. Could you have a look at entry #107?

Sivert Andreas
born June 23, 1849, Christened August 17, 1849
Trondheim, Domkirken
Father: Anders Torbergsen
Mother: Siri Sivertsdatter

Are these the same parents as above for Johan Hakon?

thank you.

#107 here....Sivert Andreas Andersen Rambraut
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran

Norway
4851 Posts

Posted - 28/10/2009 :  23:38:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Erik, I missed your question from Sept. 28.
The name after the father Theodor Andreas Helgesen was place of living, a street: Nedre (Lower) Baklandet.
Next column birth year 1870 for both parents, below 1870 its written in small print "Borgerlig gifte" (Civil marriage) Sept. 9. 1894.

Kåre

Edited by - Kåarto on 29/10/2009 00:13:53
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Erik Carsten
Advanced member

USA
534 Posts

Posted - 29/10/2009 :  02:30:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Kare: Oh a civil marriage. Perhaps that explains why I could not find a record of their marriage in the Church Book.

thank you.

Erik
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran

Norway
5476 Posts

Posted - 29/10/2009 :  06:55:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Can you give me some help in reading entry # 94?
- I read that Johan Hakon was born April 30 and baptized July 15 1855. His parents were Tømmermand (carpenter) Anders Rambrout and wife Siri Sivertsdatter.
Witnesses: Mad. Grethe Aune, Maiden M-- Wennan, ? ?, Shoemaker Andersen.

Einar
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran

Norway
5476 Posts

Posted - 29/10/2009 :  06:58:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Could you have a look at entry #107?
- yes same parents.

Einar
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