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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
 Posted - 04/01/2010 : 20:37:47
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Hi,
The transcription of the census records at the digitalarkivet are among the best for searching tools.
For instance if Margrethe is the spelling there may indeed be 40 or 47 of that name in the 1875 but if you choose the mechanism that allows you to search how the name starts and go with 'marg" and you will find that there are 25 different spellings of Margrethe, a total 381 beginning in marg with all the other possible recorded endings. What if Margrethe is a "middle name?" Then you use the "contains" tool. Also understand in the 1875 census transcription, not every parish is available online yet.
The significance of the name Hans on one of her sons might be less that what you think since Hanson is also her husband's patronymic.
The one record you have giving her birth place information is her obituary.
1.You could also track down the church records of their local denomination and see if her birthplace recorded in them in the possible marriage record (if she was married in the church, that is), baptismals of any of her children as well as her funeral record.
2. Is her obit available from more than one paper? Get all the obits, newspaper editors sometimes pick and choose which details get printed and one paper might have a better rendition of the names of the places than in the obit you have.
You need all the records you can get from here to compare to the huge grouping of potential women in Norway before you can safely weed away anyone.
Another thing you can do at the digitalarkivet site is to search the outmigration records (utflyttedes) from the parishes in Trondhjem, since the 1891 passenger record shows Trondhjem as her last residence (and Trondein--a possible typo for Trondhjem / Trondheim-- is mentioned as a place of residence in her obit) and see if & when she got permission to go.
Since you suppose that she may have known her husband in Norway, are you certain where he was from and where he was living before he departed about 1889?
You might 'luck out" and find your Margrethe, but you do need to work with what you already have, making certain that you have a full set of info and go from those facts.
Good Luck,
Jackie M. |
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Jedi92851
Junior member
USA
55 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2010 : 16:26:43
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| Thank you so much for the help and information. I have been using your suggestions but have not come up with much except someone told me that people in Norway most often changed their names before coming to America. I have found that to be true in two other families in my own tree. Because the names such as Olson and Larsen were so common in Noway and the naming system of naming sons of Ole (something) to the last name of Olson and daughters of Ole to Olesdatter, were not used here in the states, that the families dropped those names and used the farm name as their surname. Therefore Margrethe may have had the given name of Margrethe Olesdatter at birth ( which may be why she was called Maggie "O" and some people had heard Olson) who was the daughter of Ole (something) and lived on the Lund farm in Noway which is why she used the last name Lund. It would help if I knew Ole's first name or her mothers name but I don't. I have been checking into the information of their nine children (Edward also had four more children with his first wife Dorthea in Norway). Two of his oldest children ages about 5 and 7 at the time came to the states with him. So with 13 children and many descendants, you would think someone would know more or something might be in their birth records. I sure appreciate the help and information you have all given me. Someday I may find something more. I have found many happy ending by not giving up. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2010 : 22:06:19
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Hi,
By following the "loften" clue you might find a parish in which records to search.
If the place is actually Lofoten, there are about a dozen parishes on Lofoten, some of which records are in existence and searchable online at the digitalarkivet site.
You have your grandmother's birthdate as the family knew it and recorded it in America but following up in the Norwegian records it would be wise to expand your search by a couple of years either way in the baptismal records. Even though we are at the event of our birth, we are not the best witnesses as to the accuracy of the date applied to it!
If you find a promising Margaret in a parish then you might test the story about moving to Trondhjem for her growing up years by searching the outmigrations from that parish.
A further test would be to find her outmigrating from one of the parishes in Trondhjem in 1891. Sometimes the outmigrating records contain more information about the person. Since it appears that she might have been in Trondhjem in her teens, she might have been confirmed there as well. Searching for a potential confirmation record in Trondhjem would represent another oportunity to find her parents and her origin as well.
Loften might be some other place entirely. The index in my atlas to Norway has a place called "Loftenes" Loftenes must also be part of a parish the baptismal records of which are also searchable in the same way.
One of the correspondents in the earlier string mentioned finding Ole Sund or Lund in Marshall County in the census also. There is an Ole Lund listed for an obit at the www.pvillage.org database. Since he died in 1934, aged about 79 several years before Maggie died, if she is a surviving sister she might be listed in his obit. A long shot but one worth taking a look at.
Did you get Maggie's death certificate? Her parents names might be recorded there as well as her birthplace and maybe given by an informant who knew the exact and correct spelling, rather than a Norwegian challenged Yankee editor / typesetter.
To help you, I checked for an obit for Maggie in the Rowberg Biographical File but found none for her or for her husband, nor Ole Lund.
I also went through several years in the 1920s-1930s issues of Nord-Norge the publication of the Nordlandslaget but found no reference to her. Didn't have access to any issues from the year she died however.
Good Luck
Jackie M. |
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Jedi92851
Junior member
USA
55 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2010 : 23:19:09
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| Thanks. I did find and get an obit for her from the nearby town where she lived for many years and all her kids were born but it did not have any information other than her husband and children....things we already knew. I think it also mentioned that she was born in Norway but just information that people knew to put in it......right or wrong. |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9216 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2010 : 00:31:38
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What was found when you or someone you know looked at the Original Death Certificate. See below.
Name: Margarete O. Hanson
Death Date: 22 Feb 1941
Death County: Marshall
State File Number: 008171
Certificate Number: 008171
Certificate Year: 1941
Record Number: 860578
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Jedi92851
Junior member
USA
55 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2010 : 01:37:18
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| No date of birth, place of birth or maiden name. They don't even have her name correct. |
Edited by - Jedi92851 on 07/01/2010 01:45:32 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2010 : 17:16:34
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Hi,
Okay so her death cert is no help and it appears that any additional area obits of Margrethe don't contain any further or more clear information.
When you google Loften what happens? When I did, it most often it appears in connection with the Lofoten Islands in Norway and with at least one listing as a city in Sor Trondelag. Perhaps some of the Norwegian forumites might know more about other potential origins for Loften.
Here are the parishes listed as additional places to look at the library catalog when the place name Lofoten is searched at www.familysearch.org (by the by, that finding tool doesnot find Loften Norway at all):
(See Also) Norway, Nordland, Borge
(See Also) Norway, Nordland, Buksnes
(See Also) Norway, Nordland, Flakstad
(See Also) Norway, Nordland, Gimsøy
(See Also) Norway, Nordland, Hol
(See Also) Norway, Nordland, Moskenes
(See Also) Norway, Nordland, Røst
(See Also) Norway, Nordland, Svolvær
(See Also) Norway, Nordland, Valberg
(See Also) Norway, Nordland, Vågan
(See Also) Norway, Nordland, Værøy
When you get to the scanned parish registers of Nordland at the digitalarkivet look for these parish names to begin searching for a baptismal for Margrethe.
Do you know where Edward Hanson was from in and his location just before his departure from Norway? What about the 4 children from his prior marriage, what are their names, birthdates and birth places? Do you know if they married and their married names? Information may have been preserved about the possible prior connection between Maggie and Ed down their lines and knowing their information may allow you to tap into it.
I seem pompous here (sorry for that!) but you have a tremendous clue with the two place names in Norway from her obituary, if you are willing to follow where they lead you. You've been at bat twice in this forum about Margrethe and so far (as it often happens here not an unexpected outcome) no one has been able to "put it out of the park" for you. What might remain to do is to exercise dogged determination.
Good Luck,
Jackie M.
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Jedi92851
Junior member
USA
55 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2010 : 19:46:55
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Edward was married to Dorthea and I found somewhere where it was stated his first marriage was in 1880. I've bee trying to find that. His first two children where Hartvig b June 1882 and Alma D in b Jan 1884. I also have been trying to find where they were born in Norway. That makes his two younger children Hannah and Clara who he left behind in Norway born between 1885 and the time he came to the states in 1889. I have been looking into who might have taken them in. They must have been too young for him to take. Dorthea, their mother, may have died...I have to assume. I know nothing more about those two girls.
Edward was in the Tune, Østfold, Norway census-1865.
Born at Opstadalen Aug 7
Baptized Johan Edvard Sept 2 1855
I also had googled Loften and was wondering if it was meant as Lofoten since there was so many misspellings in the old notes I found. I am really bad at the digitalarkivet since I know no Norwegian and am trying translate what to put in what boxes there.
It doesn't appear from what I have found that Margrethes descendants knew much of her past or family. I find nothing about siblings or parents in her obit. There is a possibility she did not have much of a family...adopted or such. I have found some pretty tough things with persistence in the past just when I was ready to give up.
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2010 : 22:10:36
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Hi,
The son Hartvig--is this his marriage record?
MARSHALL F-2 3/21/1914 HANSON, HARTVIG ANDERSON, TINA
Was he still living in 1918 in US? If so, he would have had to register for the draft and the form he filled out asks for birthplace and if the gods smile on you it will tell a place in Norway rather than just the name of the Country. Perhaps a forumite has access to Ancestry and would look.
Here are two snippets of obits published in the Grand Forks, N.D. Herald which apparently relate to one of this couple and a child at www.newslibrary.com:
1. Grand Forks Herald (ND) - November 26, 1999
ADELIA HANSON
Adelia Hanson, 79, Newfolden, died Wednesday, Nov. 24, 1999, in Altru Hospital, Grand Forks.Adelia Esther Hanson was born Dec. 22, 1919, the daughter of Hartvig and Tena (Anderson) Hanson, in Newfolden. She lived with her family in New Maine Township, Marshall County, Minn., until moving with her mother to Newfolden in 1958. In 1987, she began living with her sister, Beulah. She moved to Karlstad (Minn.) Health Center in August 1994 and then to a group home in Argyle, Minn., in February...
2. Grand Forks Herald (ND) - June 5, 1990
OBITUARIES TENA HANSON
Tena Hanson, 95, Newfolden, died Saturday, June 2, 1990, in Thief River Falls.Services will be at 2 p.m. Wednesday in Evangelical Free Church, Newfolden. Visitation will be from 1 to 9 p.m. today with an 8 p.m. prayer service in Green Funeral Home, Thief River Falls and one hour before services in the church.Tena Anderson was born Dec. 5, 1894, the daughter of Gustav and Petronella Anderson in Stephen, Minn., where she grew up and attended school. She then received teachers training...
Sometimes obits will mention the deathdate of a spouse--it doesn't appear in these snippets, but reading the first something happened in 1958--perhaps Hartvig passed on?
Hilsen,
Jackie M. |
Edited by - jkmarler on 07/01/2010 22:19:52 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9216 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2010 : 23:08:33
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Here is his World War I Draft Registration. His place of birth is given as Kristiania, Norway.
Name: Hartvig Anton Hanson
County: Marshall
State: Minnesota
Birthplace: Norway
Birth Date: 2 Dec 1886
Race: Caucasian (White)
FHL Roll Number: 1675518
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Jedi92851
Junior member
USA
55 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2010 : 23:44:45
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I just found this myself but am checking census now to see if this is the right person since the birth date does not match. I hope it is. It's not the right one..... The rightname is Hartvig J Hanson which I just found in a census. |
Edited by - Jedi92851 on 07/01/2010 23:53:10 |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2010 : 23:48:02
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Hi,
Loften is likley Lofoten, I have seen it spelled Loften several times in US pages online.
There is no place named Loften in Norway to my knowledge, the closets is some farms called Lofte (Attic)
I made a quick search in the parish records for the municipalities in the Lofoten district as;
Vågan, Vestvågøy, Flakstad, Moskenes, Værøy and Røst for 1867 plus-minus about 6 mths for Margrete Lund without finding here (perhaps my search was to quick or I missed a sub parish).
In 1865 with surename Lund there were 8 persons living in Vågan and 10 in Flakstad.
Across the Lofoten Fjord for Vågan is Steigen municipality with 19 farms named Lund and 127 persons living there in 1865
Kåre. |
Edited by - Kåarto on 07/01/2010 23:58:00 |
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Jedi92851
Junior member
USA
55 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2010 : 23:57:18
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[quote]Originally posted by jkmarler
Hi,
MARSHALL F-2 3/21/1914 HANSON, HARTVIG ANDERSON, TINA
1. Grand Forks Herald (ND) - November 26, 1999
ADELIA HANSON
Adelia Hanson, 79, Newfolden, died Wednesday, Nov. 24, 1999, in Altru Hospital, Grand Forks.Adelia Esther Hanson was born Dec. 22, 1919, the daughter of Hartvig and Tena (Anderson) Hanson, in Newfolden. She lived with her family in New Maine Township, Marshall County, Minn., until moving with her mother to Newfolden in 1958. In 1987, she began living with her sister, Beulah. She moved to Karlstad (Minn.) Health Center in August 1994 and then to a group home in Argyle, Minn., in February...
2. Grand Forks Herald (ND) - June 5, 1990
OBITUARIES TENA HANSON
Tena Hanson, 95, Newfolden, died Saturday, June 2, 1990, in Thief River Falls.Services will be at 2 p.m. Wednesday in Evangelical Free Church, Newfolden. Visitation will be from 1 to 9 p.m. today with an 8 p.m. prayer service in Green Funeral Home, Thief River Falls and one hour before services in the church.Tena Anderson was born Dec. 5, 1894, the daughter of Gustav and Petronella Anderson in Stephen, Minn., where she grew up and attended school. She then received teachers training...
Sometimes obits will mention the deathdate of a spouse--it doesn't appear in these snippets, but reading the first something happened in 1958--perhaps Hartvig passed on?
This is the wrong Hartvig also.
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9216 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2010 : 00:22:38
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Thanks, using the J helped. Here he is, unfortunately his place of birth is not given.
Name: Hartvik John Hanson
County: Marshall
State: Minnesota
Birth Date: 26 Jun 1881
Race: White
FHL Roll Number: 1675518
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Edited by - AntonH on 08/01/2010 00:23:34 |
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Jedi92851
Junior member
USA
55 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2010 : 00:30:05
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| It is an awful coincidence that there are two Hartvig Hansons that are a couple years apart in age coming to America a couple years a part and living with just a few mile of each other in a remote part of Minnesota. I have to think they may be cousins since names do tend to be passed down in each family it seems. I'm thinking the other one may be a son of one of Edward Hansons brothers. Checking on that now. Thanks everyone. |
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Margrethe Olsdatter/Lund
