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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9216 Posts |
 Posted - 14/09/2018 : 03:37:51
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quote:
If I am understanding correctly, Helge was a servant girl to Even and his first wife Johanne. Was this common for a family to have a servant girl?
Is there a name for the child born out of wedlock to Helge?
Not unusual for a family to have a young girl to help around the house or farm.
If you look at the Link you will see that her name is Kirsti.
quote:
Also confused on Even's wife Johanne. If I read that correctly, he was 33 and his wife Johanne was 75 in the 1801 census?
Yes she is listed in the 1801 Census as being 75. The Census also shows that this is her third marriage. She died three years later. If you look closely at the original record for the child Kirsti, illegitimate child of Helge you will also see that she is listed as one of the "fadder" ie witnesses for the baptism of Kirsti.
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Lori Pribbenow
Junior member
USA
39 Posts |
Posted - 14/09/2018 : 16:52:07
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| It seems odd that Even would marry someone so much older than himself as Johanne. What would be the nearest census date after the birth of Anders (1805) and the first Svennung (1808)? I am guessing the Svennung born in 1808 most likely had passed away at some point since there was a future child named Svennung born in 1823. What would be the next census date after 1801? I am curious as to whether Anders and the first Svennung would be listed as household members. |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9216 Posts |
Posted - 14/09/2018 : 17:51:40
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Unfortunately the next full Census did not come until 1865. And you also need to look under the name Andres since that is his baptismal name. The names are probably somewhat interchangeable . Andres would have been 70 years old by then. Would he be alive? Maybe. but in the 1800's a 70 year old man would be a very old man.
There was some census data obtained in-between those years but I do not think Bø, Telemark has any census data between 1801 and 1865.
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Edited by - AntonH on 14/09/2018 18:04:24 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9216 Posts |
Posted - 14/09/2018 : 18:14:25
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I have done some searching for a Helge born in 1782 in Bø, Telemark since we found the Helge Svennungsdatter living at the place of (hos ) Even Andresen in the 1801 Census. I was looking for a Helge with a father of Svennungs Aslaksen. I did find a Hlege born in 1782 with a father named Svennung. However he listed under a farm name. So his name is given as Svennnung Wrems (also spelled Vreim}.
The baptism date is 8 December 1782. Right hand page. Not so easy to read but take a look.
Link
I think you are getting to the point in time ie 1700's where you will need to start using a Bygdebok to make any further progress in your family tree. It also might help to confirm what we have found to date. I will send a email to my friend at UND and have him do a quick preliminary look to see what might be available for the two main characters. Helge Svennungsdatter and Even Andresen Bagaas. The names are unique enough that we might get lucky. |
Edited by - AntonH on 14/09/2018 18:15:37 |
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Lori Pribbenow
Junior member
USA
39 Posts |
Posted - 14/09/2018 : 20:18:23
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| I thank all of you so much for all the information you have found for me! My father is the oldest living decendent of Svennung (born 1823) and I am hoping to take him on a trip to Norway. He has always wanted to visit the country and see where we came from. My mother has recently passed and I would love to make this dream come true for him. Would you have any suggestions on which area to visit that would be in proximity where the ancestors came from? |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9216 Posts |
Posted - 14/09/2018 : 22:29:02
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Well I am rather partial to Telemark myself. Here is a very good and useful site for one who might visit Telemark.
A two hour drive from Oslo is Skien which is large enough to have several hotels and restaurants and close proximity to Bø, Porsgrunn and Eidanger.
Link |
Edited by - AntonH on 14/09/2018 23:00:56 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 15/09/2018 : 01:22:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Lori Pribbenow
It seems odd that Even would marry someone so much older than himself as Johanne. What would be the nearest census date after the birth of Anders (1805) and the first Svennung (1808)? I am guessing the Svennung born in 1808 most likely had passed away at some point since there was a future child named Svennung born in 1823. What would be the next census date after 1801? I am curious as to whether Anders and the first Svennung would be listed as household members.
Sure she was older but most marriages of the day didn't involve notions of romantic love and attraction. Most likely it was a satisfactory arrangement, particularly if she wanted someone to carry on with the farming and he wanted to have some part of the farm that might have belonged to her. A willing seller and a willing buyer. |
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Lori Pribbenow
Junior member
USA
39 Posts |
Posted - 15/09/2018 : 14:11:31
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I notice a lot of different farm names associated with Even and Helge. Would this mean they moved around a lot or would the farms have been under new owners therefore changing the farm names?
Regarding the children named Svennung, would it be common to have two children with the same name or would it be more likely that the first Svennung born in 1808 died young and then the son born in 1823 given the same name? |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9216 Posts |
Posted - 15/09/2018 : 16:10:34
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It is likely that they moved around a lot and when they moved adopted the name of the new residence as part of their name.
It is likely that the first Svennung died young and the family then named another son the same name. |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9216 Posts |
Posted - 15/09/2018 : 22:46:10
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Above I posted a record for the 1801 Census for a Svennung Aslaksen as a possible parent for Helge Svennungsdatter born abt 1782. Results from a quick look at the Bygdebok would indicate that Helge is not the daughter of Svennung Aslaksen.
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Edited by - AntonH on 18/09/2018 18:49:32 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9216 Posts |
Posted - 18/09/2018 : 22:12:59
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The 1801 Census record for Helge Svennungsdatter shows her to be born about 1782. Posted on page 4 and below.
Helge 1801
Here are the children named Helge with father probably Svennung found in 1781, 1782.
May 11, 1781, last entry right page. Svennung
Transcription
(160) 11.05.1781 Bø Bapt 3.5. Svenung Lofthuus D: Helge, Test. Hans Torstved, Kittel Tollevsen, Hans Hanssen Grivie, Kirsti Grivie og Margit Haugland
Link
Sept 21, 1782 right hand page, Name is Svennung Lay?or Lang ?. Probably same parent as the one directly above.
Transcription of second Helge
(169) 21.09.1782 Bø Bapt 17.9. Svenung Lofthuus D: Helge, Test. Hans Grivie, Ole Tollevsen, Gunder Hægna, Kirsti Grivie og Helge Bøe
Link
I had difficulty reading the two baptism records posted above so I started a new question specifically directed to helping me read the records. The post provided that and a lot more. You can view the responses and where they led at this link.
Topic
During the research for the other topic I came across a site that has transcribed the parish records for Bø. That made the search for the parents of the two Helge Svennungsdtters much easier. I think the the two girls had the same parents and that the second Helge Svennungsdatter is the person you are seeking. The two records give his name as Svennung Lofthuus but no mothers name. As in other cases I think the first Helge died young and the second grew up to marry Even Andresen.
Here is the link to the Transcription Site.
Link |
Edited by - AntonH on 19/09/2018 02:15:12 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9216 Posts |
Posted - 18/09/2018 : 22:36:34
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In the other topic, several people lent a hand to unravel at least a few of yours and Helge Svennungsdatters ancestors. None more valuable than jkmarler. Using the Transcription she sussed out the fact that Svenning Lofthuss was likely named Svennung Tollevsen Lofthuus. From that bit of information we have been able to put together this list of the likely parents of Helge Svennungsdatter. They are Svennung Tollevsen and Oloug Aslaksdatter.
Svennung died in 1799 and thus is not in the 1801 Census. However his wife Oloug Aslakdsdtter is found at Nordbø also with two of her children.
1801 Oloug
We then tried to find out who were the parents of Svennung Tollevsen and perhaps some his siblings.
Jkmarler had posted a link to the death notice for Svennung Tollevsen. Died 1799 at 56. His birth year should be about 1743. Went to the Transcription site and worked my way back from 1740 looking for Tollev and son Svennung. After I found him with a father of Tollev Olsen, went and looked for more information on him and perhaps his marriage. Here is what I think is the story of the parents of Svennngsen Tollevsen. Their engagement, marriage and baptism of three children.
25 05.12.1742 Bø Trolov Tollev Olsen soldat og Helge Svennungsd, Caut. Jon Folkestad og Gunder Sissejord (se side 54)
26 24.02.1743 Bø Copul Tollev Olsen soldat og Helge Svennungsd (se side 54)
Left page near the bottom
Link
27 13.10.1743 Lunde Bapt 7.10. Tollev Olsen S: Svennung, Test. Siri Sissejord, Else Evensd, Helge Gundersd, Peder Polskaas, Torkel Helgetved (se side 69)
Right hand page near the bottom, Svennung
Link
36 04.12.1746 Bø Bapt 31.11. Tollev Olsen S: Ole, Test. Anne Falkenberg, Helge Polskaas, Anne Jonsd, Corporal Torkel Olsen, Ole Olsen (se side 60)
Part of third line left page Ole
Link
(25) 04.11.1750 Bø Bapt 31.10. Tollev Olsen S: Kittil, Test. Else Enersd, Anne Lie, Anne Jonsd, Torgius Halkielsen, Halvor Kaasen
First entry in Nov 4, bottom of right hand page.
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Edited by - AntonH on 19/09/2018 01:51:32 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9216 Posts |
Posted - 19/09/2018 : 02:01:44
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It is also possible to find the baptism record for Oloug Aslaksdatter the wife of Svennung the same way. Her birth year is about 1752 according to the 1801 Census. This is likely her baptism record.
(38) 22.05.1752 Bø Bapt 14.5. Aslach Grivie D: Ollou, Test. Ingeri Grivie, Astrie Schouen, Halvor Grivie, Petter Borgen, Hellech Grivie
Last record on left hand page
Link
Earlier they had a daughter Kari
20) 12.04.1750 Bø Bapt 5.4. Aslach Grivie D: Kari, Test. Ingeri Grivie, Astrie Skouen, Halvor Grivie, Halvor Nirisen, Hellech Grivie
He goes by the name of Aslach Grivie a farm name, so we still do not know his last name.
A candidate
27 02.06.1743 Bø Copul Aslach Olsen Efje og Kirsten Halvorsd (se side 54) |
Edited by - AntonH on 19/09/2018 18:27:27 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9216 Posts |
Posted - 19/09/2018 : 21:02:31
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Well looks like I guessed right on the marriage record and thus last name for the father of your Oloug (also spelled Ollou and Aslaug). The bygdebok gives the information that parents of Aslaug (Oloug) who married Svennung Tolefsson Lofthus are Kjersti Halvorsdatter Grivi and Aslak Olavsson from Evju in Nesherad (now in Sauherad). The parents of Kjersti are Halvor Andresson Grivi born 1692 and Kari Tolvsdatter Tvieten. Parents of both of these two are also listed. as Andres Halvorsson Grivi and Ingrid Olavsdatter and Tolv and Aslaug Tveiten Sauherad. No dates given for their births.
Page from Henneseid, Stian, and Gregar Nordbø. Bø-soga II : Telemark, gards og ættesoga. (Bø: Bø Kommune, 1982-1986), |
Edited by - AntonH on 19/09/2018 21:52:05 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9216 Posts |
Posted - 19/09/2018 : 21:33:00
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Here is the list of the ancestors of Svennung Everson Lie born 1823 that we know of to date.
Svennung Everson Lie 1823
Parents are Even Andersen Bagaas 1768 and Helge Svennungsdatter 1782
Helge Svennungsdatter 1782
Parents are Svennung Tollevsen Lofthuus 1743 and Oloug Aslaksdatter 1752
Svennung Tollevsen Lofthus 1743
Parents are Tollev Olsen soldier and Helge Svennungsdatter
Oloug Aslaksdatter 1752
Parents are Aslak Olsen from Efje and Kirsten Halvorsdatter Grivi 1723
Kirsten Halvorsdatter Grivi 1723
Parents are Halvor Andressen Grivi 1692 and Kari Tolvsdatter Tvieten
Halvor Andressen Grivi 1692
Parents are Andreas Halvorsson Grivi abt 1653 and Ingrid Olavsdatter
Andreas Halvorsen Grivi abt 1653
Parents are Halvor Steinulvsson Borgen abt 1625 and Rønnaug Eivindsdatter Sønstebø
Halvor Steinulvsson Borgen abt 1625
Parents are Steinulv Torgrimsson Borgen abt 1585 Ingeborg Einarsdatter Staurem
Steinulv Torgrimsson Borgen abt 1585
Father is Torgrim Borgen abt 1560 |
Edited by - AntonH on 19/09/2018 21:50:04 |
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Svein Everson Lie
