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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
 Posted - 02/03/2016 : 15:51:20
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The Pennington County Historical database gave the information that Anne was born 24 Dec 1852 supposedly from a cemetery transcription.
Findagrave has a picture of a headstone and all that stone gives is a year of birth 1852:
http://findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=broten&GSfn=anne&GSbyrel=all&GSdyrel=all&GSob=n&GRid=135016969&df=all&
It is possible that there are or were two stones otherwise one would have to wonder where the full birthdate in the transcription came from. If a stone is not the source for it what was the source?
A transcription as a source, though convenient, is only as good as the person who creates it, the one who types it, the one who interprets the original source, etc.
So what did the families involved know, and when did they know it? |
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jenseverson
Starting member
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2016 : 07:44:35
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quote:
Originally posted by JaneC
quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
This is from the cemetery database at pchs.org (Pennington county Historical Society):
Broten Anne 12/24/1852 12/18/1918 66 Landstad
Broten Erick 11/10/1847 5/7/1928 81 Landstad
From the obituary index database at the same place:
Broten Anne 19-Dec-1918 66 Landstad Sanders Spectator
Anne was born on Christmas Eve, according to this.
FYI there are 7 pages in this thread. Not sure that was noticed.
Not trying to bug you; trying to explain.
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jenseverson
Starting member
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2016 : 08:49:20
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Hello again-JaneC and JKMarler,
The headstones of Anne and Erick Broten must have be done by a Broten (Braaten) family. They were placed there about 2005 or later. The Landstad cemetery is privately owned by Seaverson families. I sent in a request to find out who had the stones made. I'm very sure the family had little information when they had the stones made. All good intentions I know. I just emailed copies of Death, Marriage certificates to Mariann Stokken. I knew their was a team of researchers working with her. She is the one who replied to get family information I had. I'm sure she will share that with everyone who is helping me research. If you are part of the team Bless you and Thank You ! I had very little information on our Seaverson family line. I gathered with the family living in Thief River Falls, Minnesota many times. We finally had a Family reunion. Many of the Braaten family and Seaverson family in attendance. We had them fill out their family group sheets. They had a wonderful time getting to know each other, The oldest living Seaverson and oldest living Braaten gave the family history as they knew about. I gathered photos, visited the old homestead got all the history on the "Landstad" Seaverson Cemetery. That's when I started compiling information. Went to court houses in Minn. gathered information from court house records. I have the records of Seaverson, Braaten Children in USA. I reached out to this great Norway Heritage web for help finding Anne, John, . The names are spelled so many different ways. Jon, John Seaverson, Severson. Annie, Anna, Anne Haugan.
With the team research in Norway I feel the information is correct. From birth, Christening records. Areas they came from in Norway. Anna's immigrating to America. ( I think that record is correct, still researching that.) It appears Anna, John , Erik lived in same area. I have not found records what year John come to USA Nor the ship he came on. The family has his trunk with his name (Jon) carved in it and a year on1861 . Is this a short ,"Long" history. Once again, THANK YOU so much for all the hours you spent doing the research.
Lovingly Yours,
Jennice Severson or ( Syvertson) :-) |
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jenseverson
Starting member
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2016 : 08:52:04
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quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
The Pennington County Historical database gave the information that Anne was born 24 Dec 1852 supposedly from a cemetery transcription.
Findagrave has a picture of a headstone and all that stone gives is a year of birth 1852:
http://findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=broten&GSfn=anne&GSbyrel=all&GSdyrel=all&GSob=n&GRid=135016969&df=all&
It is possible that there are or were two stones otherwise one would have to wonder where the full birthdate in the transcription came from. If a stone is not the source for it what was the source?
A transcription as a source, though convenient, is only as good as the person who creates it, the one who types it, the one who interprets the original source, etc.
So what did the families involved know, and when did they know it?
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jenseverson
Starting member
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2016 : 09:04:09
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Hello Jk Marler,
I just sent a lengthy reply to JaneC and you. In regards to the headstones of Anne and Erick Broton. They were placed there around 2005 or later. Most likely a younger family Broten * Braaten). Where they received the information I do not know. I'm following through to find the information.
Thank you ever so much,
Jennice Severson
or (Syvertson or Syverson) as written on the marriage license of John and Anna or e :-) |
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mastokk2
Junior member
Norway
70 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2016 : 13:42:13
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In her confirmationrecord we may see that she is called Anne Gulbrandsdtr. Haugen, I am sure that the dates have been mixed, and ended up as December 24 instead of 29, it is quite easy to mix 9 and 4....
Kildeinformasjon: Oppland fylke, Øystre Slidre, Ministerialbok nr. 1 (1849-1874), Konfirmerte 1868, side 164.
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=8996&idx_id=8996&uid=ny&idx_side=-158
It dont looks like we will come closer than this... But I have today called Statearchive in Hamar, maybe they have a probaterecord for her father. There was nothing written about her or her siblings in his deathrecord (which I order last summer), except of her brother who had the farm after Gulbrand died. |
Edited by - mastokk2 on 04/03/2016 14:15:02 |
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mastokk2
Junior member
Norway
70 Posts |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2016 : 14:30:32
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Back to shorten my earlier comment. To be fair to other descendants, the thread needs to explicitly state Anne's identity in Norway is not, at this point, established.
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Edited by - JaneC on 05/03/2016 02:47:03 |
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mastokk2
Junior member
Norway
70 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2016 : 15:13:00
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hmmm.... who`s talking about closing the research and shutting down investigation? Is it because I wrote that I think we not can come closer than this? I cant shut down investigation, this is not my thread....
I have already told that I have called the Statearchive, for possible more info in the probaterecord.
I received John and Annes deathrecords today, together with their marriage cert. I am sorry, but I am not able to copy them here... I can of course tell what is written, but not just now.....
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2016 : 16:17:54
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Can't we all get along?
Look we've all looked at Anne Gulbrandsdatter and as I said earlier she hits most of the marks re Anne Seaverson Broten but we haven't found just that nth bit more. So the best Anne Gulbrandsdatter is is presumptive likeliest candidate and turn the page. |
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mastokk2
Junior member
Norway
70 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2016 : 18:21:27
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| But as you can see in my attached file from the churchrecord, she was called Anne Gudbrandstr Haugen, and some descendents too called her Haugen (and actually in her sons deathrecord she was called Haugen), I guess this point should be one more reason for that she is the right one :-) |
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mastokk2
Junior member
Norway
70 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2016 : 00:06:33
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The Marriage Cert: Married in Mower co, Feb 21 1876 in Bear Creek. John Siverson and Anne Gilbertson.
Death Cert: Annie C Broten died Dec 18 1918. The death cert and the marriage cert are both written from the book, it is not a copy (but a handwritten copy), there is not written more in the original. I found the original marriage record in ELCA.
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2016 : 14:14:12
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Great, that's progress. So, noted here is one marriage record as recorded in the Bear Creek church book..
A modest fee must be paid, and a request must be sent, to obtain the two civil records of marriage.
1. Order Certificate #B-288, Mower County
21 February 1876 John Siverson to Anna Gilbertson
2. Order Certificate #B-409, Marshall County
27 November 1892 Erik C Braaten to Anna Syverson
Orders can be placed at website for Minnesota Official Marriage System (MOMS)
Also noted is a brief record of death? Not clear to me what you have posted. The civil record of death contains more information than what is stated here.
3. Order a copy of the civil record of death. Order can be placed on website of Minnesota Historical Society. A small fee is required.
4. Check the ELCA database for Landstad Lutheran Church in Sanders township (a township is a rural area), Pennington county, Minnesota if the family were members. They were buried in the Landstad Church cemetery. Maybe you are saying you looked at this church book. I can't tell.
These websites also furnish a street address if regular mail order is preferred over internet.
5. Write to Pennington County Historical Society. A newspaper published a story about Anne's death - an obituary. The newspaper was the "Sanders Spectator." (see page 4 of this thread.) Ask for a copy of the "obit," published 19 December 1918. They will mail it to you.
These are the basic US records needed in seeking Anne's Norwegian identity. The forum found and posted the index listing, that these records exist. But the online information is very brief. More information is included in the originals.
The church records are helpful, but the civil records (government) are also needed. Volunteer researchers are wonderful, but obviously they do not pay money for records.. That task falls to descendants.
There are no guarantees about what information will be found. Quite often civil records of marriage and death, and newspaper obituaries, hold clues to a person's identity.
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Edited by - JaneC on 06/03/2016 02:23:35 |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2016 : 16:04:28
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Here is a link to order Anne's death record -
price is $9
Minnesota Historical Society
Brootin, Annie C.
Death Certificate Index
Certificate Number: 1918-MN-013790
Death: December 18, 1918
County of Death: Pennington County, Minnesota, United States
Death records, Government Record
link
Bear Creek Lutheran Cemetery, Frankford Township, Mower Co., MN
link
Below is a Find a Grave memorial for a man who was a board member for Landstad Historical Church and Cemetery Association. I have not been able yet to find any indication that the cemetery is "privately owned by Seaverson families." It appears to be a historic church cemetery.... link
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Edited by - JaneC on 05/03/2016 22:47:17 |
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mastokk2
Junior member
Norway
70 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2016 : 21:05:03
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Have located two of John Syversen and Anne`s children`s baptize. Mother is called Anne Gulbrandsdatter with both of this registrations.
Else Hellene born Sept 14 1877 bapt.Oct 28 1877 Parents: John Syversen Braaden (I guess he was born at the same farm as Annes second husband, I dont remember that just now) and Anne Gulbransdatter
Inger Maria born Oct 09 1879 bapt. Nov 02 1879 Parents: John Syversen and Anne Gulbrandsdatter. Found in the Churchrecords for Bear Creek Lutheran Church, Grand Meadow, MN
Just a curiosity: The child under Else Hellene is Emma Hellena Gulbrandsdtr . Father Gulbrand E Haugen and Berthe Syversdtr (Johns sister) |
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Erick Braaten of Adelene Norway
