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NancyB
Medium member
USA
104 Posts |
 Posted - 05/11/2016 : 22:53:06
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My gut tells me that Betsy's parents did not emigrate. If they had, I think we would have heard something about them such as where they lived or were buried. My grandmother, Betsy's granddaughter Gladys, knew her grandmother well. They sometimes lived in the same town. My grandmother was in her 30s when Betsy passed.
My grandmother wrote about the family history in a letter in 1966. She wrote, "[Betsy's] parents were married in Norway and two children were born to them in Norway -- one son and a daughter Betsy." Betsy's obituary states she emigrated to Northwood, Iowa, at the age of 18. She is found on the 1870 census in Northwood, Iowa.
I will keep these names in mind as I continue to expand John Doe's family tree. |
NancyB |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2016 : 23:17:22
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Any thoughts on the Bertha living in Wadena, Minnesota, census-1900?
Do you have complete names (firstname/middlename/nickname) and d.o.b. for Betsy's 8 children?
Having only one sibling reduces the best possibilities down to 2, both in Hordaland:
Britha Johnsdatter (17) Voss. Brother: John Johnssøn (21) Born: 27 Sep 1849
Guro "Britha" Johnsdatter (15) Os. Brother: Ole Johnsen (10) Born: 11 Feb 1851 |
Edited by - jwiborg on 05/11/2016 23:49:14 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2016 : 23:54:31
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Betsy is a heart-breaker.
Here is the list of family members from the 1895 Iowa state census.
Name: Bessie A Andersen
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1895
Event Place: Boone, Iowa, United States
Gender: Female
Birth Year (Estimated): 1852
Family Number: 69
Line Number: 17
Page: 369
GS Film number: 1020332
Digital Folder Number: 004234902
Image Number: 00342
Household Gender Age Birthplace
Bessie A Andersen F 43
John A Andersen M 19
Andrew G Andersen M 18
Annie M Andersen F 16
Ida C Andersen F 14
Frank O Andersen M 13
Emm O Andersen F 11
Clarence E Andersen M 9
Alexander A Andersen M 7
A possible candidate for the youngest son Alexander, is mentioned previously as a resident of North Dakota. The 1900 census Alexander from Wadena is listed as born May 1887. The Alexander Anderson in Bergen, McHenry county, North Dakota in the WWI draft reg cards database was born May 1886, very close. |
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NancyB
Medium member
USA
104 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2016 : 02:08:55
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quote:
Originally posted by jwiborg
Any thoughts on the Bertha living in Wadena, Minnesota, census-1900?
Do you have complete names (firstname/middlename/nickname) and d.o.b. for Betsy's 8 children?
Having only one sibling reduces the best possibilities down to 2, both in Hordaland:
Britha Johnsdatter (17) Voss. Brother: John Johnssøn (21) Born: 27 Sep 1849
Guro "Britha" Johnsdatter (15) Os. Brother: Ole Johnsen (10) Born: 11 Feb 1851
I have never located Betsy on the 1900 census. Her son Alexander was born in May 1887, and son Elmer Claus in July of 1885--both dates given for the children of Bertha in Wadena. However, I do not think it is a match. All of Betsy's children were born in Iowa.
Guro "Britha" Johnsdatter is definitely interesting. Does the notation "hennes Datter efter 1ste Ægteskab" mean she is Anna's daughter, but not Even's?
I've spent quite a bit of time today expanding the tree of the DNA match, but so far nothing is jumping out at me. |
NancyB |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2016 : 08:14:21
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quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
That Brita (with John Brynjelson and Gertrude) was born in Vik but in March 184922 Nov 1849 pg 5 of this topic. She was covered to that extent earlier in the topic.
Her older brother Bryngel left about a year before the rest of the family.
It would be nice to find them all in US.
Here is the birth / baptism of the elder brother Bryngeld #81 in 1848.
SAB, Voss Sokneprestembete, H/Haa: Parish register (official) no. A 13, 1836-1851, p. 149
Quick link: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/kb20070524640657
In US records of the Caledonia Lutheran church in Caledonia Minnesota we find he married Betsy Jorgenson. In that record his birth date is given as 12 Feb 1847 at Vos. He and Betsy lived in Winnebago county, Iowa after their marriage and for a short period in Burnett county, Wisconsin. I don't know where the rest of Bryngel's family were but highly suspect they will be found in that southeast corner of Minnesota or northeast corner of Iowa.
Martha J Ovrid confirmation in the ELCA database:
Martha J. Ovrid
Birth Record
Birth Place
Vas, NMap
Confirmation Date
Jun 27, 1880
Confirmation Location
Brycelyn, MinnesotaMap
Record Type
Birth Record
Record Source
Membership Records
Church
American Lutheran
Church Location
Brycelyn, MNMap
Event Type
confirmation
Family Information
John Brynildson Ovrid
Father
Gjestind Johnsd
Mother
Anne Johnsdatter Ovrid confirmation in ELCA database:
Anne Johnsen Ovrid
Birth Record
Birth Date
Feb 8, 63
Baptism Date
Feb 15, - - - -
Confirmation Date
Jul 1, 1877
Confirmation Location
Ridgeway, IowaMap
Record Type
Birth Record
Record Source
Membership Records Book 1, 2 & 3
Church
American Lutheran
Church Location
Ridgeway, IAMap
Event Type
confirmation
Family Information
John Bryceildsen Svrid
Father
Gertrud Wallumsen
Mother
Anne Johnsdatter Ovrid's marriage in the ELCA database:
Anne Johnsd Ovrid
Marriage Record
Marriage Date
Oct 29, 1880
Record Type
Marriage Record
Record Source
Membership Records
Church
American Lutheran
Church Location
Brycelyn, MNMap
Event Type
marriage
Spouse's Information
Tov Hansen Veium
Spouse
Parents' Information
John Brynelsen Ovrid
Father
Gjertrusd Johnsd
Mother
Hans Torsen
Spouse's Father
Ingebor O. Veium
Spouse's Mother
Anna's marriage recorded in MOMS:
FARIBAULT
C-360
10/29/1880
HANSON, THOMAS
JOHNSON, ANNIE
Also marriage at familysearch:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VKNK-TZR
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VKNK-TZL
Interesting Annie and her family ended up in Winnebago county, Iowa too:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VTQB-2T6
Annie married again after death of Tov and here she is with her family in 1900 in Winnebago county, Iowa. The Hanson children's last name have been mistranscribed as Warron:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M9LB-3T8
Here in 1920 census all the kids out of the house:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MDMY-CZP
Here in Iowa 1925 census, ids father as Joe Overit and mother Gertrude overit:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKQ4-96XL
There are other siblings to John Bryngelsdon in US as well, marriage #2:
SAB, Voss Sokneprestembete, H/Haa: Parish register (official) no. A 19, 1851-1886, p. 18
Quick link: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/kb20070104620122
Here the family is in 1880 in Fairbault county, Minnesota. "Daughter" Martha Johnson may be the Martha Johnsdatter Ovrid in the confirmation records.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MZ9Q-DP7
In 1870 also Faribault county:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MDHM-LTW
Leaving Norway # 197-199:
SAB, Voss Sokneprestembete, H/Haa: Parish register (official) no. A 20, 1855-1886, p. 252
Quick link: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/kb20070104620443
This couple also came to US and figured in some of the church records at Bricelyn, Minnesota and Winnebago county, Iowa. They stood faddernes in the baptism of Bryngel Johnson's son Ole along with Anne and Tov Hanson:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NW4G-9HM
Here Ole and Sigvar are in the 1865 Norwegian census:
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/ft/person/pf01038235002085
Here they are carrying the name "Gravely" like the farm they lived on in 1865 in 1880 census in Kendall county, Illinois:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MXV3-B5N
I've looked at a lot of records but have not seen Brita daughter of John Bryngelson Ovrid in anything. There are other places that could be searched like Wisconsin & Illinois because of extended family connections there, but....
Have you gotten Betsy's marriage record, yet? |
Edited by - jkmarler on 09/11/2016 01:28:00 |
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NancyB
Medium member
USA
104 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2016 : 15:33:13
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quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
Have you gotten Betsy's marriage record, yet?
No. The state of Iowa sent a "could not find" letter, so I only have a transcript from Ancestry.com. It might be worth talking to the folks at our local Family History Library. The transcript has her middle initial as R, and I found her name on one of her children's death certificates listed as Betsy Runyan Anderson. Meanwhile, I'm still working on expanding the tree of the DNA match. |
NancyB |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2016 : 02:46:53
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Frankly, I think serious consideration should be given to the 1900 Bertha Anderson find. True there are errors about the birth place of the children but we don't have these family members found any where else together. What reason would there be for her to have moved to Wadena--is there some family there?
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Edited by - jkmarler on 22/01/2017 17:38:22 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9216 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2016 : 23:06:22
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I agree Jackie, after a long hard look at the 1900 US Census, I cannot find a better candidate than the Bertha Anderson of Wadena. The census does state that she had 8 children 7 living which is a close fit to Betsy.
In the marriage record for Ida C Anderson there is listed two witnesses. a Hulda Arnholt and a A Anderson. This is a possible for the Hulda Arnholt. I left out some of the record to save space. She would have been 18 at the time of marriage.
Hulda S Anholt
in the 1900 United States Federal Census
Name: Hulda S Anholt
Age: 15
Birth Date: Apr 1885
Birthplace: Iowa
Home in 1900: Grant, Boone, Iowa
Race: White
Gender: Female
Relation to Head of House: Daughter
Marital Status: Single
Father's name: John Anholt
Father's Birthplace: Sweden
Mother's name: Mary S Anholt
Mother's Birthplace:
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2016 : 23:44:55
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I'm not sure much research has been done on the other potential family in Boone county, Iowa.
Home in 1870:
Cass, Boone, Iowa
Perry Dallas County
Value of real estate: $800
View image
Household Members:
NameAge
Generins Johnson 55
Oline Johnson 45
Iver Johnson 19
George Johnson 16
Martin Johnson 14
Isabelle Johnson 16
Anna Johnson 9
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MDJK-V71
Which I find really similar to this family in the 1865 Norwegian census:
00101Gunerius Johnsen 51 Stod Husfader g Gaardmand Selveier
00201 Olea Ingebrigtsdatter 42 Stod hans Kone g
00301 Iver Guneriussen 16 Stod hans Søn ug
00401 Martin Guneriussen 11Stod hans Søn ug
00501 Oluf G. Guneriussen 3 Stod hans Søn ug
006 01 Ingeborg A. Guneriusdatter 12 Stod hans Datter ug
00701 Anna J. Guneriusdatter 6 Stod hans Datter ug
It doesn't appear that there is a gap for Betsy....
Parents' marriage #27 Gunerius' farm address is Ryg
SAT, Ministerialprotokoller, klokkerbøker og fødselsregistre - Nord-Trøndelag, 746/L0446: Ministerialbok nr. 746A05, 1846-1859, s. 164
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/kb20050504020707
#21 Ingeborg Anne b 21 Feb 1854 1/2 of set of twins
SAT, Ministerialprotokoller, klokkerbøker og fødselsregistre - Nord-Trøndelag, 746/L0446: Ministerialbok nr. 746A05, 1846-1859, s. 77
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/kb20050504020623
Her twin Jørgen Magnus #16:
SAT, Ministerialprotokoller, klokkerbøker og fødselsregistre - Nord-Trøndelag, 746/L0446: Ministerialbok nr. 746A05, 1846-1859, s. 28
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/kb20050504020574
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Edited by - jkmarler on 23/11/2016 15:33:01 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9216 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2016 : 00:49:08
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The daughter Isabelle married a Iver Helvig of Hordaland county which while grasping at straws is where Bergen is located
Iver Abelson Helvig II
1845–1930
BIRTH 1 APR 1845 • Helvig, Kvinnherad Parish, Norway
DEATH 21 JUNE 1930 • Roland, Story, Iowa
Isabel Johnson Helvig
in the Iowa, Births and Christenings Index, 1800-1999
Name: Isabel Johnson Helvig
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Norway
Spouse: I A Helvig
Child: Helvig
FHL Film Number: 1255970
At the marriage of child Isabel Helvig the parents are listed as Iver Helvig and Isabell Johnson.
Iver A Helvig
in the U.S., Evangelical Lutheran Church of America, Records, 1875-1940
Name: Iver A Helvig
Spouse: Isabell Johnsen
Church Name: Lost Island Lutheran Church
Church Location: Graettinger, Iowa
In 1880 she is referred to as Isabella. Interesting there is a Mary Johnson called sister-in-law and born in Wisconsin. Where is she in your list for Gunerius and family?
Iver A. Helvig
in the 1880 United States Federal Census
Name: Iver A. Helvig
Age: 32
Birth Year: abt 1848
Birthplace: Norway
Home in 1880: Warren, Story, Iowa
Race: White
Gender: Male
Relation to Head of House: Self (Head)
Marital Status: Married
Spouse's Name: Isabella Helvig
Father's Birthplace: Norway
Mother's Birthplace: Norway
Neighbors: View others on page
Occupation: Farmer
Household Members:
Name Age
Iver A. Helvig 32
Isabella Helvig 26
Bertha Helvig 10
Abell Helvig 9
Hattie Helvig 8
Martin Helvig 7
John Helvig 5
Malinda Helvig 1
Mary Johnson 22
For the church records as for confirmation of her daughter Malinda she is referred to as Ingeborg.
Ingeborg Helvig
in the U.S., Evangelical Lutheran Church of America, Records, 1875-1940
Name: Ingeborg Helvig
Spouse: Iver A Helvig
Church Name: Lost Island Lutheran Church
Church Location: Graettinger, Iowa |
Edited by - AntonH on 09/11/2016 18:16:39 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2016 : 01:25:39
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quote:
Originally posted by lyndal40
The daughter Isabelle married a Iver Helvig of Hordaland county which while grasping at straws is where Bergen is located
Iver Abelson Helvig II
1845–1930
BIRTH 1 APR 1845 • Helvig, Kvinnherad Parish, Norway
DEATH 21 JUNE 1930 • Roland, Story, Iowa
The source for the marriage?
FAG has her birth date as 13 July 1853 carved in stone:
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=114192475
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Edited by - jkmarler on 09/11/2016 03:42:23 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2016 : 10:31:38
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quote:
Originally posted by NancyB
quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
Have you gotten Betsy's marriage record, yet?
No. The state of Iowa sent a "could not find" letter, so I only have a transcript from Ancestry.com. It might be worth talking to the folks at our local Family History Library. The transcript has her middle initial as R, and I found her name on one of her children's death certificates listed as Betsy Runyan Anderson. Meanwhile, I'm still working on expanding the tree of the DNA match.
Iowa may be different than other places but most old marriage records are not held by the state but are held by the county. You should try to get the actual record from Boone county. The transcribed record you describe is available as part of a larger dataset at the Boone county page at usgenweb.com |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2016 : 19:55:10
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Mary Johnson is a married person, so she could be a sister-in-law by dint of marrying a brother or brother-in-law of Iver or Isabelle.
Take a look at the actual record of the Iver / Isabella marriage. Is it theirs, in which their parents might be named, with ages and birth dates and places?
The brother Iver Johnson does end up in Story county as a merchant. It might be possible that the family had her birthdate so completely wrong and put it on the stone but it makes me very suspicious that the right Ingeborg / Isabella Johnson has been identified as part of that couple.
But the total downside is the birth date doesn't match Betsy's either (although the month is "right"). I still think the actual marriage record of Betsy R Johnson should be had, just to see if there is any additional information such as parents' names. Also the dates of any possible land sales should also be obtained from Boone county to help work out how the family transistioned. You never know, the kicker might be that an address for her in Wadena might be in the land record, I have seen such things. Obituaries for the two sons who lived with Bertha in 1900 should also be obtained, to see if they mention a brief stay in Wadena or not. The d.c. for each of Betsy's 8 children (those that haven't already been obtained) should also be obtained for any other iteration of her name or birthplace. The godparents for each of the children should also be found to see if there might be any of Betsy's relatives among them. There are loads of documentary work that should be done. |
Edited by - jkmarler on 18/11/2016 13:10:38 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
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NancyB
Medium member
USA
104 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2016 : 23:30:11
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quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
Iowa may be different than other places but most old marriage records are not held by the state but are held by the county. You should try to get the actual record from Boone county. The transcribed record you describe is available as part of a larger dataset at the Boone county page at usgenweb.com
I will pursue this again. At one time I had a contact in Boone County. She said even if I sent a request to the state, it would be sent on her her. But she disappeared on me due to medical problems in her family, so I went straight to the state. But I will try at the local level again, and also try to get the death certificates of as many of the other children as possible.
Thanks for all of the information from all contributors in response to my post. It's a bit overhwelming, but I am slowing sorting through it all. Just wish I were better at using the archives myself! |
NancyB |
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Betsy Johnson of Bergen
