| Author |
 Topic  |
|
NancyB
Medium member
USA
104 Posts |
 Posted - 05/09/2013 : 00:59:49
|
quote:
Another thing is about the given names of the children, if they were following the "customary" practice, the eldest John may have been named for Betsy's father, the next son named for Alexander's father Andrew / Anders; Anna Mathilda and Christine Ida named for either of the grandmothers. People were not religious about this practice by the 1870s and in America so it may be coincidental but at least for the boys it seems to have a ring of truth.
With some help from others on a Swedish forum, I have traced the family a bit in Sweden. Indeed, Alexander's father is Anders Andersson. His wife was Maria Charlotta which doesn't fit any of the daughters. |
NancyB |
 |
|
|
jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2013 : 04:19:02
|
Here is the list of people whose names start with Bet, born Bergen, +/- 5 years from 1851 in the 1865 census:
150 1 4 Betzie Pauline Simonsen* deres datter u 11 f Bergen
6958
2,3 9 3 Betzye Georgine Benetter Datter u 20 k Bergen
10259
27 11 10 Betty Isdahl deres Datter u 10 f Bergen Statskir
15116
44 15 3 Betsy Melvida Ma. Eide Dater u 17 f Bergen
15311
65 15 11 Betcey Catarine Michelsen Datter u 12 f Bergen
18841
69 18 3 Betzy Ivanna Mathilda Hartvig* deres Datter u 18 f Bergen
20902
63 19 14 Betzy Marthilde Tønsberg Datter u 15 f Bergen
21865
39b 21 5 Betsy Lorentsen deres Datter u 13? f Bergen
24170
22a 23 3 Betzy C. Eriksen Datter u 17 f Bergen
26789
83 24 3 Betsy Rytter Datter u 13 f Bergen
Fjelds Fjelds præstegaard 401, 402 5 Betty M. Wallem Lærerinde ug 20 k Bergen
5463 Askøens Sogn Lille-Damsgaard 307a 434 Bethzy Oreim deres Tjenestepige u 16 f Bergen
I've run very quickly through the baptisms in Bergen at Domkirken, Nykirken, Maria, St. Jørgens Hospital, Korskirken, Bergen Strafanstalt, St Pauls dissenters for 1849-1853 and the only Betsys on the list above whose baptismals I didn't see are
Betzie Pauline Simonsen
Betzye Georgine Benetter
Betty Isdahl
Betsy Melvida Ma Eide
Betty M. Wallem
None of the others had a birthdate occuring the last week in February thru the 1st week in March of 1849, 1850, 1851, 1852, 1853. And there was only two I found who were not in the 1865 census:
Betzy Marie d/o Ole Stephanius Olsen b. 9 Oct 1851 #128 on pg 152 of Domikirken female baptism. and another to the same father named Betzy Oline b. 28 Nov 1853 #150 pg 189 also Domkirken. |
Edited by - jkmarler on 05/09/2013 04:44:36 |
|
|
|
jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2013 : 06:19:34
|
This list is generated from the Bergen to Quebec ships list database for 1865-1871. It is a list of females, born Bergen, aged 18.
Hamn År Mnd. Dag Førenamn Farsnamn Etternamn Kjønn Alder Fødestad Merknad Skip
199 Bergen 1865 Mai 1 Anne Olsdatter f 18 Bergen Helene
1288 Bergen 1865 Mai 7 M. Arnesen f 18 Bergen Norge
2954 Bergen 1866 Mai 6 Rikke Jordan f 18 Bergen Aurora
8038 Bergen 1867 April 23 Barbra Nielsen f 18 Bergen Claus Heftye
10818 Bergen 1869 Mai Augusta Riisnæs f 18 Bergen Lyna
11343 Bergen 1869 Mai 3 Karen Thorine Thorsen f 18 Bergen Alma
13878 Bergen 1871 April 23 Petra Hartvik f 18 Bergen Quebeck Pera
14734 Bergen 1871 April 30 Eline Johnsen f 18 Bergen Kong Sverre
Eline Johnsen (and possibly Anne Olsdatter) is the only name with a glimmer of interest because of the Johnsen patronymic, but it would be hard to think how Eline became Betsy and moving in 1871 means she is not the Betsy found in the 1870 census in Worth county Iowa. |
|
|
|
Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2013 : 11:01:30
|
[To be clear on this, for Father's Name on the death certificate is typed: (?) JOhnson
IOW, I did not add the (?).
For Mother's Maiden Name is typed: Don't Know
[/quote]
Sorry for the confusion.
Kåre
|
Edited by - Kåarto on 05/09/2013 11:01:50 |
|
|
|
jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2013 : 17:01:39
|
Here is a list of names beginning with B, patronymic or last name starting with Jo for 1867 & 1868 from the norwayheritage databases. This is a search you can do on this site for other years or name combinations:
#285 Berte Serine Johnsdatter 16, Tysvær
http://www.norwayheritage.com/p_list.asp?jo=856&ps=37477
#167 Brithe Johnsdatter Øvre , Vig
http://www.norwayheritage.com/p_list.asp?jo=242&ps=56182
Here is the utflyttede record for this family leaving in 1868, right hand page #11-16:
Source information: Sogn og Fjordane county, Vik, Parish register (official) nr. A 9 (1866-1877), Migration records 1867, page 313.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=6938&idx_id=6938&uid=ny&idx_side=-205
This Brithe was born 22 Nov 1849 in Vik and so probably eliminated because of that.
#19 Berethe Johnsdatter Mostet 19 married Selbu
http://www.norwayheritage.com/p_list.asp?jo=1269&ps=13292
#68 Bergit Johnsdatter Aadalen, 13, res of Saude:
http://www.norwayheritage.com/p_list.asp?jo=1144&ps=53151
#3d Bergit Johnsdatter Aadalen 13 ½ Sauherad (same as #68?)
http://www.norwayheritage.com/p_list.asp?jo=1144&ps=53450
#14 4th one Birthe Johannesdtr 12, Øier
http://www.norwayheritage.com/p_list.asp?jo=530&ps=89498
#224 Britha Johnsdatter Føli, 17, Leganger
http://www.norwayheritage.com/p_list.asp?jo=274&ps=54341
#225 Britha Johsdatter Bølstad, 9, Lyster
http://www.norwayheritage.com/p_list.asp?jo=1314&ps=51961
#258 Britta Jonsdatter Skillestad, 20, Sogndal
http://www.norwayheritage.com/p_list.asp?jo=1314&ps=51961
|
Edited by - jkmarler on 04/12/2014 07:22:35 |
|
|
|
NancyB
Medium member
USA
104 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2013 : 17:07:14
|
I am going to try to duplicate some of these searches to see if I can get the hang of using the archives more efficiently.
Meanwhile, I have made contact with someone in Boone County, Iowa, and will hopefully have a copy of the marriage record of Alexander and Betsy within two weeks. |
NancyB |
|
|
|
jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2013 : 14:15:54
|
This is from HeritageQuest: Heads of Household in Worth County, Iowa in 1870, last name Johnson, born Norway. Only a few are old enough to be the parent of someone abt age 20:
JOHNSON ANDREW 27 M W NORW IA WORTH BRISTOL TWP 1870
JOHNSON ANDREW 28 M W NORW IA WORTH SILVER LAKE TWP 1870
JOHNSON ANDREW F 30 M W NORW IA WORTH HARTLAND TWP 1870
JOHNSON ASMOND 40 M W NORW IA WORTH BRISTOL TWP 1870
JOHNSON B 35 M W NORW IA WORTH HARTLAND TWP 1870
JOHNSON BEN 34 M W NORW IA WORTH HARTLAND TWP 1870
JOHNSON BETSY 19 F W NORW IA WORTH NORTHWOOD TWP 1870
JOHNSON BETSY 16 F W NORW IA WORTH NORTHWOOD TWP 1870
JOHNSON C P 20 M W NORW IA WORTH HARTLAND TWP 1870
JOHNSON D OLE 48 M W NORW IA WORTH HARTLAND TWP 1870
JOHNSON G 33 M W NORW IA WORTH HARTLAND TWP 1870
JOHNSON H 20 M W NORW IA WORTH NORTHWOOD TWP 1870
JOHNSON H JOHN 43 M W NORW IA WORTH HARTLAND TWP 1870
JOHNSON HANDRE 30 M W NORW IA WORTH SILVER LAKE TWP 1870
JOHNSON HENRY 45 M W NORW IA WORTH HARTLAND TWP 1870
JOHNSON I 32 M W NORW IA WORTH HARTLAND TWP 1870
JOHNSON IVER 48 M W NORW IA WORTH HARTLAND TWP 1870
JOHNSON IVER 56 M W NORW IA WORTH SILVER LAKE TWP 1870
JOHNSON J D 40 M W NORW IA WORTH HARTLAND TWP 1870
JOHNSON JOHN 30 M W NORW IA WORTH HARTLAND TWP 1870
JOHNSON JOHN T 27 M W NORW IA WORTH HARTLAND TWP 1870
JOHNSON K 38 M W NORW IA WORTH NORTHWOOD TWP 1870
JOHNSON K D 35 M W NORW IA WORTH NORTHWOOD TWP 1870
JOHNSON MAGGIE 26 F W NORW IA WORTH BRISTOL TWP 1870
JOHNSON MAGGIE 27 F W NORW IA WORTH NORTHWOOD TWP 1870
JOHNSON MARGRET 15 F W NORW IA WORTH FERTILE TWP 1870
JOHNSON OLE 25 M W NORW IA WORTH NORTHWOOD TWP 1870
JOHNSON SYVERT 47 M W NORW IA WORTH SILVER LAKE TWP 1870
|
|
|
|
jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2013 : 15:08:04
|
Here are Johnson b in Norway heads of household in Boone county, Iowa in 1880
Surname Given Name Age Sex Race Birthplace State County Location Year
JOHNSON ANNIE 21 W NORW IA BOONE DOUGLAS 1880
JOHNSON BETSEY 17 W NORW IA BOONE DOUGLAS 1880
JOHNSON IRA 65 W NORW IA BOONE PEOPLES 1880
JOHNSON JULIA 14 W NORW IA BOONE MADRID; DOUGLAS 1880
JOHNSON LEWIS 11 W NORW IA BOONE DOUGLAS 1880
JOHNSON MARK 54 W NORW IA BOONE OGDEN; YELL 1880
JOHNSON NEWTON 52 W NORW IA BOONE DOUGLAS 1880
JOHNSON OLIVER 16 W NORW IA BOONE GARDEN 1880
JOHNSON SARAH 46 W NORW IA BOONE DOUGLAS 1880
Here are the Johnson heads of household b Norway in Boone County, Iowa in 1870, from HeritageQuest:
JOHNSON GENERIUS 55 M W NORW IA BOONE CASS TWP 1870
JOHNSON JOHN 44 M W NORW IA BOONE CASS TWP 1870
JOHNSON JULIA 12 F W NORW IA BOONE CASS TWP 1870
JOHNSON MARK 45 M W NORW IA BOONE CASS TWP 1870
JOHNSON NELSON 45 M W NORW IA BOONE CASS TWP 1870
|
Edited by - jkmarler on 06/09/2013 15:13:05 |
|
|
|
JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2013 : 15:08:41
|
> "Heads of Household in Worth County, Iowa in 1870, last name Johnson, born Norway. Only a few are old enough to be the parent of someone abt age 20."
Great - so that makes the following candidates for Betsy's father (if he immigrated also and if she's the Betsy in Northwood Township in 1870 and if he's in Worth County near her in 1870 - all of which is possible):
Asmond Johnson born about 1830 -- Bristol Township
D Ole Johnson born about 1822 -- Hartland Township
H John Johnson born about 1827 -- Hartland Township
Henry Johnson born about 1825 -- Hartland Township
Iver Johnson born about 1822 -- Hartland Township
J D Johnson born about 1830 -- Hartland Township - prob emigrated 1849
K Johnson born about 1832 -- Northwood Township - arrived Worth county circa 1857?
Syvert Johnson born about 1823 -- Silver Lake Township - in Silver Lake Twp by 1857?
Source of possible immigration information:
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~iaworth/data/worthtwp.htm
========================
Note to self: Betsy immigrated "when she was eighteen" - ca 1868-1870.
|
Edited by - JaneC on 06/09/2013 15:20:26 |
|
|
|
jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
|
|
JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
|
|
jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2013 : 15:46:30
|
quote:
Originally posted by JaneC
I am not clear on what happened to Kirstine Elisabeth born 28 Feb 1850 on farm Bjørbækmo in Nord-Rana - was she not a viable candidate? Nancy did you consider writing to the creator of the family tree that includes her parents?
father Elias Johannesen born in 1820 in Jordbrua Rana, Nordland, Norway
mother Rebekka Kristensdatter born 1827 in Råna, Nordland, Norway
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=kristinrichey&id=I03465
Put the years, months, and days given for Betsy and deathdate into your genealogical software date calculator to see what you get. That birthdate might be the result of bad math.... |
|
|
|
JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2013 : 15:50:50
|
Earlier the birth of Kirstine Elisabeth born 28 Feb 1850 was found but we have not traced her later life to see if she emigrated to the USA.
Sorry, I don't understand this ..."Put the years, months, and days given for Betsy and deathdate into your genealogical software date calculator to see what you get. That birthdate might be the result of bad math."
On Betsy's death record her estimated years of life in years, months, and days is definitely bad math. Her birth date is given as 28 February. Typed. The year 1850 is added in a separate manuever, handwritten. Information was supplied by Mrs. Charles Anderson, whom we can guess is Betsy's daughter Ida. Ida would most likely know Betsy's birth day-month. Ida wouldn't be keeping track of the years-months-days of life. That kind of calculation is only done at a death, and is based on the birth day-month-year. If the two don't match, then the birth day-month-year is the credible fact. Ida must have thought her mother was age 84 (had completed 84 years), but it would be highly unusual if Ida was tracking how many additional days her mother had lived.
I tend to ramble - I'm saying a birth day-month is celebrated during a person's life and is most often known by those nearest and dearest. The years-months-days of life are calculated upon death.
Why the hesitancy about 1850 I don't know, except people are so often off by one year in calculating birth year (I suppose due to the way birth days fall mid-year?) Betsy's birth year also varies in the census. So the birth year of 1850 is a just a wee bit less credible than the birth day-month.
I consider the birth day-month the most credible fact about Betsy (though one does find discrepancies and I am not saying it is a proven fact). I think the calculation with the software yielded an alternate birth date of March 1 (based on the years-months-days of life in the death record). That is just the following day after February 28. Do I remember that right? If so that's pretty fair math for a pastor in 1934 who does not own a genealogical software date calculator. :D |
Edited by - JaneC on 06/09/2013 16:15:52 |
|
|
|
jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2013 : 16:40:44
|
When I put that data in the date calculator of my PAF program a birthdate of 1 Mar 1850 came up. Try it in your program's calculator and see what you get.
Those kinds of calculations make the fact subjective rather than objective. It is the result of math not the result of fact. Facts collected at death that deal with the death are pertinent to the death. Facts collected about other aspects of the person at the time of death might be subject all sorts of influences. The basic one is that normally sensible people who are giving the information might be subject to their grief, etc.etc.
The difference is why when I looked in the Bergen baptisms I looked for Betsy and dates covering the last week of February and the first week of March.
Anybody is welcome to take up the Røros gal. First find out if she lived, then find out if she migrated. |
Edited by - jkmarler on 06/09/2013 16:49:53 |
|
|
|
JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2013 : 16:52:31
|
quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
When I put that data in the date calculator of my PAF program a birthdate of 1 Mar 1850 came up. Try it in your program's calculator and see what you get.
You are inputting the years-months-days of life in Betsy's death record (Date of Death: 12-14, 1934, at age 84 years, 9 months, 13 days.) That's not necessary, since that will yield an unreliable date. We use the days-months-years of life to calculate a birth day-month-year when the birth day-month-year is not stated or not credible. I think birth date of 28 February 1851 is a better bet than 01 March 1850. |
Edited by - JaneC on 30/01/2014 20:07:34 |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
Betsy Johnson of Bergen
