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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
 Posted - 11/06/2015 : 18:13:11
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Ole Rødklev & family leaving #19:
Source information: Telemark county, Bø, Parish register (official) nr. 8 (1849-1861), Migration records 1854, page 357.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=1351&idx_id=1351&uid=ny&idx_side=-343
He is not a Halvorson but an Olson and so may not be in the Halvor Jorgenson family at all despite what the bygdebok says. |
Edited by - jkmarler on 11/06/2015 18:15:33 |
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lornejohnson
Senior member
Canada
287 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2015 : 19:32:49
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| Okay, this is interesting. How do I navigate through this? I see three categories of Ovre Telemark: prosti, vestfjelske sorenskrveri, ostfjelske sorenskriveri. I'm looking for the probate of 1815 for Halvor Jorgensen farm Rodklev ...right ? Where does one start? |
Lorne Johnson |
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lornejohnson
Senior member
Canada
287 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2015 : 19:59:12
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quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
Ole Rødklev & family leaving #19:
Source information: Telemark county, Bø, Parish register (official) nr. 8 (1849-1861), Migration records 1854, page 357.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=1351&idx_id=1351&uid=ny&idx_side=-343
He is not a Halvorson but an Olson and so may not be in the Halvor Jorgenson family at all despite what the bygdebok says.
Or the information (Olsen vs Halvorsen) was entered incorrectly in the parish register?? Interesting that they got his wife's name correct ! |
Lorne Johnson |
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lornejohnson
Senior member
Canada
287 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2015 : 02:04:05
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http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20051011050781.jpg
Found this emigration record of Anund Olsen Stavholt and his wife Mette Olsdatter. Is this Ole Halvorsen's daughter? ....and who is listed below them ....are they not too old to be children? ...or is that the year of birth? Translation please.
Probate after Halvor and Ingeborg was held 1815 and the farm was ca 1820 taken over by a son Ole Halvorsen and wife Johanne Olsdatter, a daughter Mette b. 1826 married Anund Olsen Stavholt. They em. to America 1853.
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Lorne Johnson |
Edited by - lornejohnson on 12/06/2015 02:29:17 |
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lornejohnson
Senior member
Canada
287 Posts |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2015 : 05:05:31
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quote:
Originally posted by lornejohnson
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20051011050455.jpg
Line 16 Halvor ...son of Anund Olson and Mette ....on the right hand page looks like Ole Halvorsen Rodklev ......translation please. Does this confirm that it is Ole HALVORSEN not Olsen?
There's an Ole Halvorson Østerli and an Ole Herlofson (?) Rødklev and a couple of others from Rødklev |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2015 : 05:09:47
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quote:
Originally posted by lornejohnson
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20051011050781.jpg
Found this emigration record of Anund Olsen Stavholt and his wife Mette Olsdatter. Is this Ole Halvorsen's daughter? ....and who is listed below them ....are they not too old to be children? ...or is that the year of birth? Translation please.
Their children are there below them complete with birthdates written Day over month and then a two digit year. |
Edited by - jkmarler on 12/06/2015 05:12:02 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
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lornejohnson
Senior member
Canada
287 Posts |
Posted - 13/06/2015 : 06:36:09
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quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
Even though Halvor Jørgensen Rødklev was a husman and having an estate to muddle with is unlikely, you should check it out for certain.
Likely it will be the weight of circumstances which will tell you if Johannes Halvorson Rødklev is your man or not.
That means looking at all the faddernes of his and Gunnild's children to see if there are any possible relative names there. Following up on J.H. R's brother Jørgen to see if Johannes & Gunnild were ever faddernes for any of his children or indeed for any of the supposed sibling's children.
Why did Johannes and Gunnild move (for the birth of daughter Ingeborg)? Did some of JHR's siblings move at the same time to the same place?
Barring that any other Johannes Halvorson moved into Bø between 1801 & 1818-- which is somewhat unknowable since the registers of moves weren't being kept for most of that period (and for 1815 + though there was a spot in the Bø churchbooks to keep that information the pastor put the vaccinations there instead)--JHR seems the most logical person and especially now since there is evidence stateside to point to a different birth year than what you had.
By the by, is the marriage record the only evidence of his birth year 1792-1793?
Jackie: I apologise for not replying to these questions you posted. I was reviewing the information and just saw this now.
You refer to Halvor Jorgensen as a "husman" ...not sure what this is. How do I "check it out"?
I don't know why Johannes and Gunnild move around so much ...but their son Halvor did the same ....between Seljord and Boe. I know this from his childrens birth announcements. Are you trying to draw a parallel action (moving around a lot) between Johannes Halvorsen and his father Halvor Jorgensen?
His birth year 1792/93 I got from the birth announcement of the WRONG Johannes Halvorsen....son of Corporal Halvor Olsen.
In this forum I have posted information that indicates an earlier birthdate 1787.
Thanks for your encouragement on this lineage Jackie. I'm being a little more cautious this time after getting it wrong once already. More work to be done.
The 20 year age difference between Halvor Jorgensen and his wife Ingeborg Jensdat. might indicate that this is his second marriage? Is that what the "Givt 2den gang" refers to? |
Lorne Johnson |
Edited by - lornejohnson on 13/06/2015 06:46:02 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 13/06/2015 : 15:45:53
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Family history research is seldom perfect yet always in the state of being perfected.
When Johannes & Gunnild moved to US and where they moved to was also where Halvor (their son) moved to. Families often stick together or try to when making moves --or at least that is a first impulse. It might also apply to moves within Norway.
I was trying to figure out how the birthdate (1792 / 1793) for Johannes was arrived at, if the only record for it was his marriage record or if there was some other document out there lurking waiting for its opportunity to mess up the candidate from Seljord.
Halvor was a husman in the 1801 census and probably you'll find that word in the baptismals of his children. A husman is a cotter. He makes an arrangement with the owner of a property for a small piece of land on which to live and possibly grow crops for his family in exchange for labor at intervals determined by the land owner. But perhaps since it was reported that Halvor's probate was in 1815 he bought the farm Rødklev from the owner after 1801 and actually had an estate to be reckoned with. It would be a bit peculiar that Ole Halvorson b 1790
would inherit before two older sons Jørgen and Johannes but perhaps that explains the gap of 5 years between the probate and Ole getting the farm in about 1820 that other people's claims were "extinguished" by death or deed, so that he might have it. The other question about Ole is where is he in the 1801 census?
I don't know what to tell you about Halvor's probate record as I didn't find any reference covering 1815 for Bø in the stuff currently online. Perhaps it is not yet online but microfilmed and available through LDS. Otherwise in hard copy form some place.
Ditto on the land records on Rødklev, I found nothing on the earlier transactions but there are some things on the later transactions. It is likely some place but may or may not be online yet or ever. Otherwise from what record did the date 1792 of Halvor's lease on Rødklev come from for the bygdebok author to relate it?
Perhaps there are some on forum who are more confident Norwegian readers than I who could take a look at the online probates and the land records to see if I've missed either.
In the marriage record of Halvor Jørgenson and Ingebor Jensdatter he is identified as enkemand which is widower and in the 1801 census as givt 2nd gang --married for the second time. So it is possible that Halvor has other descendants from his first marriage.
As I told you, gather all the details from all the records on Johannes & Gunnild family and see where that leaves you. Look for records in which Johannes might be mentioned amongst his potential siblings. These might be "slight" but could be valuable to resolve any conflicts in your mind.
For instance in your ancestor's Halvor Johanneson's baptism there are a Bergit Lie and a Gunnild Voldene who are they?
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Edited by - jkmarler on 13/06/2015 16:17:15 |
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lornejohnson
Senior member
Canada
287 Posts |
Posted - 13/06/2015 : 21:15:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Kåarto
Rødklev (Raukleiv)
Not much info to share.
1792 Halvor Jørgensen and Ingeborg Jonsdatter with 5 chilfden leased Rødkleiv.
Probate after Halvor and Ingeborg was held 1815 and the farm was ca 1820 taken over by a son Ole Halvorsen and wife Johanne Olsdatter, a daughter Mette b. 1826 married Anund Olsen Stavholt. They em. to America 1853.
Ole Halvorsen is mentioned on Rødklev 1838 as owner of Rødklev, he sold the farm 1854, he and a relative em. to America some years later.
Kåre
I having trouble sorting out "a daughter Mette b 1826" ...is this a daughter of Halvor Jorgensen? |
Lorne Johnson |
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lornejohnson
Senior member
Canada
287 Posts |
Posted - 13/06/2015 : 22:54:05
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For instance in your ancestor's Halvor Johanneson's baptism there are a Bergit Lie and a Gunnild Voldene who are they?
I have no idea who they are ....the names are not familiar. |
Lorne Johnson |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 13/06/2015 : 23:56:16
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quote:
Originally posted by lornejohnson
For instance in your ancestor's Halvor Johanneson's baptism there are a Bergit Lie and a Gunnild Voldene who are they?
I have no idea who they are ....the names are not familiar.
The Johannes Halvorson b. 1787 had two sisters listed in the 1801 census a Birgit and a Gunnild, perhaps Bergit Lie and Gunnild Voldene are the sisters. That is why you should look at the names of all the faddernes --the godparents of each of the baptisms--to reveal possible relatives. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 14/06/2015 : 00:00:00
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quote:
Originally posted by lornejohnson
quote:
Originally posted by Kåarto
Rødklev (Raukleiv)
Not much info to share.
1792 Halvor Jørgensen and Ingeborg Jonsdatter with 5 chilfden leased Rødkleiv.
Probate after Halvor and Ingeborg was held 1815 and the farm was ca 1820 taken over by a son Ole Halvorsen and wife Johanne Olsdatter, a daughter Mette b. 1826 married Anund Olsen Stavholt. They em. to America 1853.
Ole Halvorsen is mentioned on Rødklev 1838 as owner of Rødklev, he sold the farm 1854, he and a relative em. to America some years later.
Kåre
I having trouble sorting out "a daughter Mette b 1826" ...is this a daughter of Halvor Jorgensen?
Mette is the daughter of Ole Halvorson who might be a son of Halvor Jorgenson. |
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lornejohnson
Senior member
Canada
287 Posts |
Posted - 14/06/2015 : 01:08:01
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Sorry if that sounded presumptuous ....didn't mean that I don't know them....but during the considerable research I did on Johanes and Gunild these names didn't present themselves.
I understand the intent of the question. I am looking at various connections to the family for any commonality. .....and I really do appreciate your suggestions. |
Lorne Johnson |
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Johanes Halvorsen Parents
