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rickeyherb
Starting member
Australia
13 Posts |
 Posted - 02/06/2014 : 23:30:05
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Howdy, I'm after information on John Olsen Foss. He was my grandmothers grandfather. The earliest record I can find of him in Australia shows that he was a seaman and in Australia in 1854.
His death certificate (I know they are unreliable) shows he died in 1891 aged 66 and states he was born in Christiania, Norway.It also states he had been in Victoria 36 years.
I am unable to find a marriage certificate for him - I suspected the relationship was never formalised.
So 'trees' on Ancestry record his first name as Johanne.
Hoping some one can find details of his parents and emigration to Australia.
Thanks
Rickey |
Rickey Herbertson |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2014 : 00:09:26
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Only 1 daughter; Amelia Nichols?
Family:
Wife: Agnes Emma Bowler b: 01 Apr 1836 in Sydney, NSW, Australia
Marriage: 1856, Castlemaine, Victoria, Australia
Children: Amelia Foss b: 1863, Daylesford, Victoria, Australia
Johan Olsen Foss (1825-1891) |
Edited by - jwiborg on 03/06/2014 00:24:19 |
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Kċarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2014 : 00:16:21
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There were there possible candidates for his father Ole (Oles son; Olsen) living in Oslo 1865, perhaps too young;
- Ole Christian Foss age 40, shoemaker, married to Christine Foss, a dau. Jeanette Christine 2
- Ole Foss, age 52, Rastaurateur, married to Elen Maria Foss, 2 sons Hakon Ingolf and Carl Oluf 14 and 11 an a dau. Valborg Caroline 7
- Ole Foss, age 37, shoamaker, married to Eline Hansdatter, 2 dau. Anette Emilie and Helga Josefine 10 and 2 and a son Nils Olaf 5.
Kċre |
Edited by - Kċarto on 03/06/2014 00:19:00 |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2014 : 00:23:34
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| His father must have been between 60-80 years old in the 1865 census. |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2014 : 00:30:37
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This shoemaker was interesting: Ole Foss
He has a daughter named Emilie... Johan had a daughter named Amelia..
Ole could be a brother... born about 1829 in Gamle Akers Menighed, Oslo?
Edit: But his name is Ole Evensen Foss...  |
Edited by - jwiborg on 03/06/2014 00:35:27 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9216 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2014 : 06:43:02
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Here are the candiates that a search of All Norway, Select Baptisms, 1634-1927 results for Foss turns up. I ignored the born in Oslo part.
Norway, Select Baptisms, 1634-1927 about Johan Berent Foss
Name: Johan Berent Foss
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 13 mar 1823
Baptism Date: 1 jun 1823
Baptism Place: Domkirken, Trondheim, Sor Trondelag, Norway
Father: Ole Foss
Mother: Marie Elisabeth
FHL Film Number: 126824
Reference ID: 2:2CN95J9
Norway, Select Baptisms, 1634-1927 about Johan Mortinus Foss
Name: Johan Mortinus Foss
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 20 des 1825 (20 Dec 1825)
Baptism Date: 5 mar 1826
Baptism Place: Domkirken, Trondheim, Sor Trondelag, Norway
Father: Ole Foss
Mother: Maria Elisabeth Foss
FHL Film Number: 126824
Reference ID: 2:2CN9RLS
Norway, Select Baptisms, 1634-1927 about Johan Bernt Foss
Name: Johan Bernt Foss
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 9 apr 1828
Baptism Date: 1 jun 1828
Baptism Place: Domkirken, Trondheim, Sor Trondelag, Norway
Father: Ole Foss
Mother: Marie Foss
FHL Film Number: 126824
Reference ID: 2:2CNBB51
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Edited by - AntonH on 03/06/2014 06:46:45 |
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peder
Advanced member
USA
835 Posts |
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peder
Advanced member
USA
835 Posts |
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peder
Advanced member
USA
835 Posts |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2014 : 13:57:45
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Not certain if this is your John or not but a strange coincidence of dates if not. From The Trove:
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/88363601?searchTerm=%22john%20foss%22&searchLimits=sortby=dateAsc
Bacchus Marsh Express, Saturday 7 Feb 1891, pg 2, col 7, no title:
"--A fatal accident befel Mr. John Foss,
a man about 60 years of age, on
Thursday, and an old resident of Blakeville. He
had been into the township, and purchased a
load of chaff upon which he was riding home when
about a half mile out his hat fell off, here he
alighted for its recovery, and was assisted on to
his load again. He had not proceeded a quarter
of a mile when he was seen to fall off his load.
The observer, Mr. James Bence, whose horse
happened to be yoked to his buggy hard by
hurried to the rescue and brought the unfortunate
man into the township, when Dr. Marr pronounced
life extinct."
Another article in another paper mentioned the same accident said that John Foss died of a broken neck. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2014 : 22:48:26
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quote:
Originally posted by peder
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=marycotter&id=I95456255
This question is for the original poster. In the database above for John Olsen Foss the poster of the database has the following about John's name:
Name: Johann or Johan or Johanola or 'John' Holer (Olsen?) Foss
Given Name: Johann or Johan or Johanola or 'John' Holer (Olsen?)
Surname: Foss
Name: Fosse?
I realize you may not know this person but do you have any information why she might have been in this much confusion about John's name?
The headstone looks like it's relatively new, not carved back in the day but a recent marker, who ordered it? |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2014 : 17:33:07
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There are two places where you can search the parish registers for births of John Olsen Foss in Oslo (previously known as Kristiania and sometimes spelled Christiania) Norway. You might want to try your hand at each. familysearch.org has a database of Norwegian baptisms which is reported to have over 7,000,000 entries. Even with this size it is not comprehensive--not all parishes are represented nor every era of record for every place. Generally, if you find something, bless your luck, but a good place to start, regardsless.
Otherwise, if you feel that there is strength in the identification you have of his birthplace or home place as Oslo and his birthyear as 1825 and his name, you might feel up to looking through the actual baptismal registers of the parishes of Oslo, here is a link to the list of actual registers. Oslo is the "big" city in Norway so there is a lot of time to spend going through each of the registers for even just the year 1825. You may get lucky.
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_fylke=3&idx_kilde=Alle&idx_periode=&idx_textsearch=&js=j
Personally, as a seasoned researcher, even though his name and date is carved in stone, I feel a great reservation about the absolute truth in it. Since the newspaper story lists his age as about 60, a search allowing for the possibility of birth in 1831 needs to be considered. The uncertainty of the spelling of his name in the other database leads me to suppose there is a record somewhere in Australia that is somewhat more nuanced than John or Johan and that a search has to allow the possibility that there is some variance in what his actual name was.
Likewise there is some uncertainty in regards to the surname of Foss. Classic Norwegian name structure is 1. Given name (like John), 2. a patronymic name created from your father's given name (like Ole's son or Olsen) , 3. A farm name essentially the address at which you lived at any given time (like Foss which means falls which you kept during the time you lived there and when you moved to a new place you used the name of that place.)
The inherited surname in Norway was not really totally in practice until 1923 when it was required by statute. Some places and some families began adopting it earlier. Anyway, my point is the naming practice of an immigrant in their new country might lead to different results than what the family in Norway actually practiced.
Apparently in the 1865 Norwegian census there is no one born before 1810 carrying the name Ole Foss. Here is one using the name from the 1801 census. He lived in Arendal, was a sail maker and fathered at least 8 children in Arendal. At least 3 of these children were married in the late 1840s and early 1850s in Oslo. There are a couple of sons whose fates I don't know (Frithiof & Valdemer& Christian) but no son named John, so they remain only an FYI:
Ole Henrik Foss in 1801 census
http://gda.arkivverket.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=28&filnamn=f1801&gardpostnr=28686&personpostnr=422930&merk=422930#ovre
Couple Ole Henrich Foss and Else Marie Truslew marrying in 1816, #19:
Source information: Aust-Agder county, Arendal, Parish register copy nr. B 1 (1816-1838), Marriage records 1817, page 190.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=9402&idx_id=9402&uid=ny&idx_side=-127
Their first child Hanna Cecilia #14:
Source information: Aust-Agder county, Arendal, Parish register copy nr. B 1 (1816-1838), Birth and baptism records 1818, page 14.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=9402&idx_id=9402&uid=ny&idx_side=-15
Name: Vilhelm Foss
Birth Date: 1820
Birthplace:
Age: 27
Spouse's Name: Karen Sofie Gulbrandsen
Spouse's Birth Date: 1824
Spouse's Birthplace:
Spouse's Age: 23
Event Date: 18 Oct 1847
Event Place: Garnison Menighet, Oslo, Akershus, Norway
Father's Name: Ole Henrik Foss
Mother's Name:
Spouse's Father's Name: Peder Gulbrandsen
Spouse's Mother's Name:
Race:
Marital Status:
Previous Wife's Name:
Spouse's Race:
Spouse's Marital Status:
Spouse's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M42825-5
System Origin: Norway-EASy
GS Film number: 255742
Reference ID:
"Norway, Marriages, 1660-1926," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NW9M-2H5 : accessed 03 Jun 2014), Ole Henrik Foss in entry for Vilhelm Foss and Karen Sofie Gulbrandsen, 18 Oct 1847; citing Garnison Menighet, Oslo, Akershus, Norway, reference ; FHL microfilm 255742.
Vilhelm Olsen Foss in 1865 census:
http://gda.arkivverket.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=2&filnamn=f60301&gardpostnr=2160&personpostnr=49872&merk=49872#ovre
#8 Vilhelm son of Ole Henrik Foss b.
Source information: Aust-Agder county, Arendal, Parish register copy nr. B 1 (1816-1838), Birth and baptism records 1821, page 25.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=9402&idx_id=9402&uid=ny&idx_side=-26
Name: Christian Foss
Birth Date: 1822
Birthplace:
Age: 26
Spouse's Name: Elisabet Martine Olsen
Spouse's Birth Date:
Spouse's Birthplace:
Spouse's Age:
Event Date: 14 Apr 1848
Event Place: Garnison Menighet, Oslo, Akershus, Norway
Father's Name: Ole Henrik Foss
Mother's Name:
Spouse's Father's Name: Andreas Olsen
Spouse's Mother's Name:
Race:
Marital Status:
Previous Wife's Name:
Spouse's Race:
Spouse's Marital Status:
Spouse's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M42825-5
System Origin: Norway-EASy
GS Film number: 255742
Reference ID:
"Norway, Marriages, 1660-1926," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NW9M-26X : accessed 03 Jun 2014), Ole Henrik Foss in entry for Christian Foss and Elisabet Martine Olsen, 14 Apr 1848; citing Garnison Menighet, Oslo, Akershus, Norway, reference ; FHL microfilm 255742.
Christian Olsen Foss #14, 3rd child:
Source information: Aust-Agder county, Arendal, Parish register copy nr. B 1 (1816-1838), Birth and baptism records 1822, page 28.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=9402&idx_id=9402&uid=ny&idx_side=-29
Their 4th child Agnes Marie #19:
Source information: Aust-Agder county, Arendal, Parish register copy nr. B 1 (1816-1838), Birth and baptism records 1824, page 33.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=9402&idx_id=9402&uid=ny&idx_side=-34
Name: Nicolai Henrik Jaeger
Birth Date: 1818
Birthplace:
Age: 32
Spouse's Name: Ottilia Henriette Elisabeth Foss
Spouse's Birth Date: 1825
Spouse's Birthplace:
Spouse's Age: 25
Event Date: 03 Dec 1850
Event Place: Domkirken, Oslo, Akershus, Norway
Father's Name: Nicolai Henrik Jaeger
Mother's Name:
Spouse's Father's Name: Ole Henrik Foss
Spouse's Mother's Name:
Race:
Marital Status:
Previous Wife's Name:
Spouse's Race:
Spouse's Marital Status:
Spouse's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M42466-1
System Origin: Norway-VR
GS Film number: 255752
Reference ID: 2:R9LD5R
"Norway, Marriages, 1660-1926," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NWSS-FTS : accessed 03 Jun 2014), Ole Henrik Foss in entry for Nicolai Henrik Jaeger and Ottilia Henriette Elisabeth Foss, 03 Dec 1850; citing Domkirken, Oslo, Akershus, Norway, reference 2:R9LD5R; FHL microfilm 255752.
Ottilia Jĉger widow in the 1865 census (she born Arendal)
http://gda.arkivverket.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=24&filnamn=f61301&gardpostnr=1496&personpostnr=15843&merk=15843#ovre
#18 on right page Ottilia the 5th child of Ole Henrich Foss:
Source information: Aust-Agder county, Arendal, Parish register copy nr. B 1 (1816-1838), Birth and baptism records 1825, page 38.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=9402&idx_id=9402&uid=ny&idx_side=-39
6th child Julu Augusta:
Source information: Aust-Agder county, Arendal, Parish register copy nr. B 1 (1816-1838), Birth and baptism records 1828, page 49.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=9402&idx_id=9402&uid=ny&idx_side=-50
#8 Frithiof, 7th child of Ole Henrich Foss:
Source information: Aust-Agder county, Arendal, Parish register copy nr. B 1 (1816-1838), Birth and baptism records 1830, page 55.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=9402&idx_id=9402&uid=ny&idx_side=-56
8th child Valdemar #14:
Source information: Aust-Agder county, Arendal, Parish register copy nr. B 1 (1816-1838), Birth and baptism records 1834, page 75.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=9402&idx_id=9402&uid=ny&idx_side=-76
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rickeyherb
Starting member
Australia
13 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2014 : 00:55:39
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Thank you everybody for your replies. I have been away for the week so apologies for not replying sooner. My John Foss is indeed the one that fell off the dray at Ballan and broke his neck. I'm not sure if it helps but he had 10 children with Agnes Bowler.
In order:
Ellen Maria
Jessie Jane
James William
Anna
Amelia
Louisa Emma (my great-grand mother)
John
James William (the first one deceased)
Elizabeth
Agnes Ann
Finding a marriage record for him would assist greatly but I suspect that him and Agnes never actually married despite records indicating they were. His death certificate says he was married in Castlemaine, Victoria at the age of 32 - circa 1857
There is a record of Agnes Emma Bowler marrying William Edward Davidson in Adelaide in 1852 at the age of 16 which I believe to be 'my' Agnes.
Agnes died in 1903 aged 67 and was born in 1836. Her death certificate says she had married at the age of 20 in Castlemaine
The birth certificate for their first child Ellen Maria born 1858 shows her father as Johan Holer Foss aged 33 . Born Christiania, Norway. This may infact be more reliable than his death certificate.
It also says her parent were married in Adelaide in 1852 (which is the year Agnes married William Davidson) and that there was one previous child - deceased.
jkmarler - thank you in particular for your comphrenshive reply - it will take me some time to go through what you have provided
Regards
Rickey
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Rickey Herbertson |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2014 : 01:12:27
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Can you provide a scan of the birth certificate for their first child Ellen Maria born 1858?
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rickeyherb
Starting member
Australia
13 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2014 : 01:35:54
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Happy to provide a copy of the birth certificate but can't work out how to attach a file from my PC. Can you walk me through it please.
Thanks
Rickey |
Rickey Herbertson |
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rickeyherb
Starting member
Australia
13 Posts |
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John Olsen Foss 1825 - 1891
