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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
 Posted - 10/11/2015 : 14:34:19
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So six children survive their father: Albertine, Aksel, Valborg, Dagny.
plus two out of three of Carl, Johan Adolf, Ole Hjalmar.
Ole Hjalmar Kristiansen Brun b 10 Jan 1882 on this link, in jail if I understand correctly:
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/sok/person?s=ole+hjalmar+kristiansen+brun
The latest date among these eight records is an album dated 1904-1906. Both Johan Adolf and Ole Hjalmar have notes on their baptismal records, to a prosecutor? dated 1897 (?). Maybe affidavits of identity in a court case? With no understanding of Norwegian or understanding of these records, I hesitate to draw any conclusions, but seemingly the two brothers spent a number of years in jail, and if so, the offense must have been serious. They both make good candidates to be the siblings who went to America.
This Johan Adolf Kristiansen Brun was born on the wrong day in the wrong city. John Brown was alive and present when the info on his enlistment and naturalization papers was recorded. One almost guesses that if Johan Adolf is in fact John Brown - if - he would have to deliberately lie. In a way that could fit with a criminal background - but that is only conjecture.
A more common scenario is that an immigrant names a largish city as the place where he's from, even though he/she wasn't born there. Also not uncommon is an immigrant using an identifier name such as a farm name abroad, but meanwhile that identifier name doesn't show up in birth, confirmation, or census records in Norway. Without a patronym for John Brown, searching Norway is tough.
That said, John Brown was not born on the stated date in Fredrikstad, because the forum found no boy of any name was born there on that day. Odd though, if the true birth place for John Brown is Oslo (Kristiania). In that case we'd expect John Brown to say so.
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Edited by - JaneC on 10/11/2015 15:22:25 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2015 : 17:41:21
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Johan's occupation in 1900 is sailor, but he is a sailor locked up in prison or some sort of institution. Since the dates on the legal action were in Oct 1897, he would only have been 13, when did he have time to become a sailor? Moreover, what would a 13 year old have to have done to languish locked up for 3 years?
I've also checked the mønstrings from Fredrikstad after 1885 but not found a Johan Brun, but of course I didn't look for Kristiansen /Johansen / Fredriksen either. I did find a Brun in Sarpsborg mønstrings (1881-1913) named Nils Anker Brun #813 b. 25 Oct 1890. |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2015 : 18:41:57
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A good idea -mønstrings = muster rolls, yes? The combination of young, sailor, serious makes me think of involvement in a smuggling deal, or a brawl that caused injury. Pure fictionalizing about the Brun boys. Plus they may have nothing to do with stephen's John. We don't know.
Hi stephenbrown, are you able to add more to the forum search (do you have time)? You have some records for John Brown posted in abbreviated form. It may be helpful to post full transcriptions of those records. For example, sometimes people leave out a child's middle name when summarizing a family, or leave out a middle initial that appears just once for the target individual. Or, for example, one knows where the ancestor is buried and has seen the headstone, so no need to get the cemetery record. The record not acquired might have an additional clue - unneeded for filling out a family tree, but possibly valuable in a genealogy search. Usually a person's name appears differently in different records, the age varies a little, etc.
Honestly, the forum can find an excellent candidate for John Brown, but still lack the corroborating evidence, which can only be found in Australia. The birth date and birth place can't be correct. The name is probably Anglicized. Therefore the forum is searching for somebody born some time, some where. More identifiers of "your" John Brown are needed. Occasionally the forum counts significant a tidbit that most folks would consider insignificant. No guarantees this will help. It might. |
Edited by - JaneC on 10/11/2015 18:49:40 |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2015 : 23:51:39
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Hmmmm, not looking good. It would be nice to know if there is more than one Johan Adolf in the records. There is a note on Ole's records:
siluettspeil, didn't find it in Google translate. Anyone else ever seen this word? |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9216 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2015 : 00:13:48
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There are these 1880 plus/minus 10
Name: Johan Adolf Kristiansen
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 6 mar 1873
Baptism Date: 8 jun 1873
Baptism Place: Bodø, Nordland, Norway
Father: Kristian Jakobsen
Mother: Kirsten Kat. Pedersen
FHL Film Number: 307080
Name: Johan Adolf Kristiansen
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 9 nov 1878
Baptism Date: 9 feb 1879
Baptism Place: Kolvereid, Nord-Trøndelag, Norway
Father: Kristian Kristiansen
Mother: Laura Katrina Jakobsdr
FHL Film Number: 125345
Reference ID: bk 4 p 20
Name: Johan Adolf Kristiansen
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 12 aug 1883
Baptism Date: 7 okt 1883 (7 Oct 1883)
Baptism Place: Oslo, Oslo, Norway
Father's Age: 1857
Mother's Age: 1858
Father: Sigvard Kristiansen
Mother: Josefine Olsen
FHL Film Number: 1282973
Reference ID: book 1
Name: Johan Adolf Teodor Kristiansen
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 15 sep 1884
Baptism Date: 7 des 1884 (7 Dec 1884)
Baptism Place: Værøy Sogn, Nordland, Norway
Father: Jakob Mathias Kristiansen
Mother: Anna Johannesdtr.
FHL Film Number: 1860654
Reference ID: Item 3 A p 14
Name: Johan Adolf Kristiansen
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 6 jul 1885
Baptism Date: 9 aug 1885
Baptism Place: Værøy Sogn, Nordland, Norway
Father: Mathias Bonsak Kristiansen
Mother: Sofie Amalie Berg
FHL Film Number: 1860654
Reference ID: Item 3 A p 15
Name: Johan Adolf Kristiansen
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 22 apr 1885
Baptism Date: 24 mai 1885 (24 May 1885)
Baptism Place: Akershus, Norway
Father: Peder Kristiansen
Mother: Lina Olava Pettersdr
FHL Film Number: 1282508
Reference ID: 386
Name: Johan Adolf Kristiansen
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 4 nov 1885
Baptism Date: 10 jan 1886
Baptism Place: Oslo, Oslo, Norway
Father's Age: 1855
Mother's Age: 1855
Father: Anders Alfred Kristiansen
Mother: Olava Nikoline Olsen
FHL Film Number: 1282974
Name: Johan Adolf Kristiansen
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 27 apr 1884
Baptism Place: Oslo, Oslo, Norway
Father: Johan Fredrik Kristiansen
Mother: Alette Laura Kristiansen
FHL Film Number: 1282516
Reference ID: p96 #50
This last one, looks like the one Vivi was following.
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Edited by - AntonH on 11/11/2015 00:14:36 |
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vivi
Senior member
Norway
371 Posts |
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vivi
Senior member
Norway
371 Posts |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 13/11/2015 : 11:32:38
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Here is an exceedingly long shot, birthdate doesn't match, birth place doesn't match, birth year matches, last name matches (Norwegian equiv of Brown), middle name equiv of John as Johan:
http://gda.arkivverket.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=1&filnamn=dp12011816&gardpostnr=65955&personpostnr=197344&merk=197344#ovre
Here are the Brun family and some Brun relatives at Skottegaven 7 in Bergen in 1885:
007 00 Harald Theodor Brun 1845 Lekanger i Sogn Dampskibsfører f
008 00 Gurine Jensine Brun f Lindgaard 1845 Bergen Hustru
009 00 Begitte Agnete Emilie Brun 1871 Amerika Børn
010 00 Engel Marie Brun 1876 Bergen Børn
011 00 Harald Theodor Brun 1879 Bergen Børn
012 00 August Hellesen Brun 1882 Bergen Børn
013 00 Herman Johan Brun 1885 Bergen Børn
014 00 Nilsine Eliassen 1864 Bergen Tjenestepige
015 00 August Emilius Hellesen 1836 Kristiania Assuransekasserer
016 00 Bergitte Agnete Hellesen f Brun 1832 Bergen Hustru
017 00 Engel Emil Herman Hellesen 1871 Lekanger Sogn Børn
018 00 Birgit Hellesen 1873 Lekanger Sogn Børn
The daughter Bergitte etc. was born in Chicago about 1871. I haven't found her in the 1891 Bergen census but by 1900 she is in Kristiania at least until 1908, then I'm not so sure. She is married to a man named Kristian Herman Brun Henrichsen and they have at least one child a son b. 1904 named Herman Brun Henrichsen.
The brother Harald Theodor Brun b abt 1879 is in some kind of institution in Bergen in 1891 for pleiebarn and then I don't find him again.
The brother August Helleson Brun, namesake of his father's brother-in- law in the same house in 1885, not findable in the 1891 census, but in 1900 he is on a ship working as a sailor in the North Sea. In 1908 as a single man, a sailor, he travels to Albert Lea, Minnesota to a friend and again he travels to America in 1922 as a married man, but no apparent wife present.
There is also a daughter born 4 April 1887 in Bergen. At the time of her baptism her father is styled as "avdod skipper" deceased skipper.
All the children after Bergitte have been baptized in Nykirken.
The wife and mother Gurine (sometimes Hansina, sometimes Jensina) b. Lindgard/ Lindgaard etc. is likewise not found in the 1891 census.
But Herman Johan Brun has not been found in any other record. Which way did he go? |
Edited by - jkmarler on 14/11/2015 03:06:33 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9216 Posts |
Posted - 14/11/2015 : 03:37:46
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Maybe he ended up in the US.
Herman Johan Brun
in the U.S., Naturalization Records - Original Documents, 1795-1972 (World Archives Project)
Name: Herman Johan Brun
Age: 42
Birth Date: 7 Jan 1885
Birth Location: Bergen, Norway
Arrival Year: 1915
Issue Date: 22 Mar 1927
State: Washington
Locality, Court: Seattle, District Court |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 14/11/2015 : 16:25:55
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| Obviously, not dead in 1917, so not likely to be "our" John. |
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John Brown Frederikstadt 1885
