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AngelaBoger
Starting member
USA
28 Posts |
 Posted - 25/10/2015 : 17:35:48
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Hey guys!
I am having a really hard time researching my great, great grandfather. He was born around 1876 (I know his death date and age at death, because of his headstone).
His name as far as I know was Herman Sandersen (sometimes spelled Saundersen and sometimes Sanderson).
All I know is that he was Norwegian and he came to South Africa on a ship. He ended up in East London, South Africa, but the family story says that wasn't his original destination - he fell in love with a Dutch girl who lived in East London, and when the ship left, he jumped off and swam ashore to be with her. I have no idea how true the story is, but that's what has been passed down.
Any help you can offer would be greatly appreciated! |
Edited by - AngelaBoger on 25/10/2015 17:37:17 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 25/10/2015 : 18:59:07
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Have you got his death certificate?
What occupation did he follow in South Africa?
When did he marry? |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 25/10/2015 : 19:28:35
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Very rare name.
Great advantage for you.
There were only two Herman Sandersen living in Norway acc. to the 1900 census, both in Østfold County.
One in Glemminge municipality, Johan Herman, working in a saw mill b.1884 and a 2. one born 1844.
It looks like your Herman left Norway before 1900.
Kåre |
Edited by - Kåarto on 25/10/2015 19:57:09 |
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AngelaBoger
Starting member
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - 25/10/2015 : 21:22:59
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quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
Have you got his death certificate?
What occupation did he follow in South Africa?
When did he marry?
He worked as a fisherman, then for the harbour board, and then as a "boatman" for the South African Railways & Harbours.
I don't have his death certificate yet, but I am searching for it. I have to manually search through all the records, because 99% of the South African records have not been indexed or "computerized" yet. I am really close to getting his wife's death certificate though, and that will help a lot.
I'm not sure when he was married, but I think their first daughter was born in 1907. There are 2 children that I don't know the birth year for, so they could have been born before that.
quote:
Originally posted by Kåarto
Very rare name.
Great advantage for you.
There were only two Herman Sandersen living in Norway acc. to the 1900 census, both in Østfold County.
One in Glemminge municipality, Johan Herman, working in a saw mill b.1884 and a 2. one born 1844.
It looks like your Herman left Norway before 1900.
Kåre
I wonder if the one born in 1844 could be his father? Was there any census before 1900? |
Edited by - AngelaBoger on 25/10/2015 21:25:53 |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 25/10/2015 : 21:32:42
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According to the headstone, he should be born about 1874.
What was the name of their children?
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 25/10/2015 : 22:02:59
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quote:
Originally posted by AngelaBoger
I wonder if the one born in 1844 could be his father? Was there any census before 1900?
There exist many censuses, the complete cesuses are from 1801-1865-1900 and 1910
Wagoner and daylaborer Herman Sandersen b. 1844 with wife and five children 1900 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9211 Posts |
Posted - 25/10/2015 : 22:04:31
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And based on Norwegian naming practices his father should have been named Sander or something similar. Searching the Ancestry.com data base "All Norway, Select Baptisms, 1634-1927 "results for father named Sander"for males born 1875 plus/minus 2 with father named Sander does not turn up any named Herman. Here is the list for first name Sander. There were not any hits when I used the first name Saunder. Note some of the records use the fathers last name but the person could also have used Sandersen. There were no Hermans.
Samuel Amaldus Andersen
31 aug 1875 17 okt 1875 (17 Oct 1875) , Mandal, Vest-Agder, Norway Sander,
Anne Mathea
View Record
Johan Marensius Johansen
30 jan 1874 3 mai 1874 (3 May 1874) Halden, Ostfold, Norway Sander August,
Otilde Augusta
View Record
Sander Kittilsen
6 feb 1873 15 mar 1873 Buskerud, Norway Sander,
Sidsel
View Record
Knud Knudsen
17 sep 1873 12 okt 1873 (12 Oct 1873) Buskerud, Norway Sander,
Margith
View Record
Peder Andreas Petersen
11 feb 1876 7 mai 1876 (7 May 1876) , Bo, Nordland, Norway Sander,
Karoline
View Record
Nils Adolf Sandersen
8 apr 1876 14 mai 1876 (14 May 1876) , Mandal, Vest-Agder, Norway Sander,
Annette
View Record
Sander Sandersen
7 mai 1876 (7 May 1876) 18 jun 1876 Gol, Buskerud, Norway Sander,
Aase (Can be ruled out, found married with child in 1900 Census.)
View Record
Halvor Sandersen
15 nov 1877 6 jan 1878 Gol, Buskerud, Norway Sander,
Aase
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Edited by - AntonH on 25/10/2015 23:14:26 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 25/10/2015 : 22:39:15
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Here are Herman* Sanders* from the advanced search at the digital arkivet. There are a couple from the 1875. Unfortunately no Buskerud fylke a hot bed for men named Sander--- in the 1875 census online
These are the headlines on the columns of information:
Name Date of birth Place of birth Family position, marital status and occupation Residence Event date Role Source
Some of the abbreviations are these: ug means ugifte or unmarried;
g means gifte means married; tienstedreng means boy worker; hf short for husfader or male head of household' kjorekarl is errand boy; fiskehandler is fishmonger; .
Folketelling means census;
Hermand Sandersen 1846* Varthei ug Tjenestedreng Skeberg: Skofterød nordr (plads) 31.12.1865 folketelt Folketelling 1865 for 0115P Skjeberg prestegjeld
Herman Sandersen 1854* Christiania Søn ug Christiania: Maridalsveien 31.12.1865 Folketelling 1865 for 0301 Kristiania kjøpstad
Herman Sandersen 1845 Wartheig hf g Jernbanearbeider Sarpsborg 31.12.1875 Folketelling 1875 for 0102P Sarpsborg prestegjeld
Herman S. Sandersen 1854 Kristiania Arbeider Kristiania: Hedemarkensgade 5 31.12.1885 Folketelling 1885 for 0301 Kristiania kjøpstad
Herman Sandersen 03.11.1889 Fredrikstad fl ug Fiskehandler Fredrikstad: Bakkegate 2 01.12.1910 Folketelling 1910 for 0103 Fredrikstad kjøpstad
Herman Sandersen 30.01.1906 Aal s ug Søn Aal: Nyhus 01.12.1910 Folketelling 1910 for 0619 Ål herred
Herman Sanders. 1844 Varteig hf g Kjørekarl Dagarbeide Sarpsborg: Thorsbæk Gade 03.12.1900 Folketelling 1900 for 0102 Sarpsborg kjøpstad
Johan Herman Sanders. 1884 Onsø s ug Triller ved sagbrug Glemminge: Fjeldberg 03.12.1900 Folketelling 1900 for 0132 Glemmen herred
Herman Julius Sandersen 22.01.1890 Bornholm g Gassverksarbeider Trondheim: Strandveien 49 01.11.1925 Kommunal folketelling 1925 for 1601 Trondheim kjøpstad |
Edited by - jkmarler on 26/10/2015 00:40:25 |
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AngelaBoger
Starting member
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - 25/10/2015 : 23:06:46
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quote:
Originally posted by jwiborg
According to the headstone, he should be born about 1874.
What was the name of their children?
Where did you find the headstone????
Their children were Martha Johanna Elizabeth, Peter Henry (Peters Henerick), Arthur Herman, Agnes, Sarah Elizabeth, William and Sylvester. I don't know the birth information for William or Sylvester, and Agnes is my grandmother, but I have very little info on her too. |
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AngelaBoger
Starting member
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - 25/10/2015 : 23:10:22
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quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
Here are Herman* Sanders* from the advanced search at the digital arkivet. There are a couple from the 1875. Unfortunately no Buskerud fylke a hot bed for men named Sander--- in the 1875 census online
Hermand Sandersen 1846* Varthei ug Tjenestedreng Skeberg: Skofterød nordr (plads) 31.12.1865 folketelt Folketelling 1865 for 0115P Skjeberg prestegjeld
Herman Sandersen 1854* Christiania Søn ug Christiania: Maridalsveien 31.12.1865 Folketelling 1865 for 0301 Kristiania kjøpstad
Herman Sandersen 1845 Wartheig hf g Jernbanearbeider Sarpsborg 31.12.1875 Folketelling 1875 for 0102P Sarpsborg prestegjeld
Herman S. Sandersen 1854 Kristiania Arbeider Kristiania: Hedemarkensgade 5 31.12.1885 Folketelling 1885 for 0301 Kristiania kjøpstad
Herman Sandersen 03.11.1889 Fredrikstad fl ug Fiskehandler Fredrikstad: Bakkegate 2 01.12.1910 Folketelling 1910 for 0103 Fredrikstad kjøpstad
Herman Sandersen 30.01.1906 Aal s ug Søn Aal: Nyhus 01.12.1910 Folketelling 1910 for 0619 Ål herred
Herman Sanders. 1844 Varteig hf g Kjørekarl Dagarbeide Sarpsborg: Thorsbæk Gade 03.12.1900 Folketelling 1900 for 0102 Sarpsborg kjøpstad
Johan Herman Sanders. 1884 Onsø s ug Triller ved sagbrug Glemminge: Fjeldberg 03.12.1900 Folketelling 1900 for 0132 Glemmen herred
Herman Julius Sandersen 22.01.1890 Bornholm g Gassverksarbeider Trondheim: Strandveien 49 01.11.1925 Kommunal folketelling 1925 for 1601 Trondheim kjøpstad
I unfortunately have no idea what any of that means. :( |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9211 Posts |
Posted - 25/10/2015 : 23:26:58
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Perhaps Jackie will expand on the list but basically it is a list of Names, birth year, Place in Norway, Census (Folktelling) year where found, and place where found.
Here is another look at the Ancestry.com data base for births in Norway. No one named Herman Sandersen in that data base born between 1873 and 1877. Here are the Sandersens born in that time frame with a first name that starts with H. Halvor shown below is also in the above list, I posted.
Name: Helge Sandersen
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 3 nov 1876
Baptism Place: Buskerud, Norway
Death Date: 1876
Father: Torkel Sandersen
Mother: Kristi Eriksdatter
FHL Film Number: 1282539
Name: Halvor Sandersen
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 15 nov 1877
Baptism Date: 6 jan 1878
Baptism Place: Gol, Buskerud, Norway
Father: Sander Sandersen
Mother: Aase Halvorsdr
FHL Film Number: 1282529
Reference ID: 945
Not a lot of candidates from this data base.
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Edited by - AntonH on 25/10/2015 23:36:55 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 26/10/2015 : 00:01:42
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quote:
Originally posted by lyndal40
Name: Helge Sandersen
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 3 nov 1876
Baptism Place: Buskerud, Norway
Death Date: 1876
Father: Torkel Sandersen
Mother: Kristi Eriksdatter
FHL Film Number: 1282539
Name: Halvor Sandersen
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 15 nov 1877
Baptism Date: 6 jan 1878
Baptism Place: Gol, Buskerud, Norway
Father: Sander Sandersen
Mother: Aase Halvorsdr
FHL Film Number: 1282529
Reference ID: 945
Helge Torkjellsen (Sandersen) above died the same year as he was born according to Aal Bygdesoge I, pg 202, family 278.
Contrary to the index listing above Halvor Sanderson was born in Hol another Hallingdal parish different from Gol. Folk og Fortid i Hol V says he was unmarried, migrated to US in 1901 and died in Sisseton South Dakota in 1948.
The reason there are so many Sander and hence Sanderson in Hol and Aal, the most westerly parishes in Hallingdal is that there was an emigrant to Norway from Scotland in the 1500s who was known as Sander and settled in Hol, Aal and Sigdal. Viriually every person in those two Hallingdal parishes has this man as an ancestor and his interceonnectedness with many pedigrees has also lead to the perpetual repetition of the name Sander. That's why I said Buskerud was a hotbed of Sander / Sanderson / Sanderdatter.
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Edited by - jkmarler on 26/10/2015 00:43:46 |
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AngelaBoger
Starting member
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - 26/10/2015 : 01:30:34
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quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
quote:
Originally posted by lyndal40
Name: Helge Sandersen
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 3 nov 1876
Baptism Place: Buskerud, Norway
Death Date: 1876
Father: Torkel Sandersen
Mother: Kristi Eriksdatter
FHL Film Number: 1282539
Name: Halvor Sandersen
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 15 nov 1877
Baptism Date: 6 jan 1878
Baptism Place: Gol, Buskerud, Norway
Father: Sander Sandersen
Mother: Aase Halvorsdr
FHL Film Number: 1282529
Reference ID: 945
Helge Torkjellsen (Sandersen) above died the same year as he was born according to Aal Bygdesoge I, pg 202, family 278.
Contrary to the index listing above Halvor Sanderson was born in Hol another Hallingdal parish different from Gol. Folk og Fortid i Hol V says he was unmarried, migrated to US in 1901 and died in Sisseton South Dakota in 1948.
The reason there are so many Sander and hence Sanderson in Hol and Aal, the most westerly parishes in Hallingdal is that there was an emigrant to Norway from Scotland in the 1500s who was known as Sander and settled in Hol, Aal and Sigdal. Viriually every person in those two Hallingdal parishes has this man as an ancestor and his interceonnectedness with many pedigrees has also lead to the perpetual repetition of the name Sander. That's why I said Buskerud was a hotbed of Sander / Sanderson / Sanderdatter.
Hmmm.. That's quite interesting, thank you. I really hope I'm able to find his death notice - that will help a LOT. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
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AngelaBoger
Starting member
USA
28 Posts |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9211 Posts |
Posted - 26/10/2015 : 21:15:50
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There is a Herman Sandeson born abt 1845, living in Kristiana (ie now Oslo) in the 1875 Norwegian Census.Living with wife Sophie Halvorsen. Taken from the earlier list posted by Jackie and mentioned earlier by Kåre.
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/en-gb/ft/person/pf01052005001477
They had a least one child that I could find.
Name: Sigvart Sandersen
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 17 aug 1876
Baptism Date: 3 sep 1876
Baptism Place: Sarpsborg, Østfold, Norway
Father: Herman Sandersen
Mother: Anne Sofie Halvorsen
FHL Film Number: 1259715
Reference ID: Book 2 Page 5
To be your person, he would have had to drop the usually Norwegian naming practice, which would have given him the name Sigurd Hemansen and adopted his father first and last name. Perhaps not likely but we are not finding a Herman Sandersen or any close variant born around 1874 to 1876.
Probably the marriage of the parents.
Name: Herman Sandersen
Gender: Male
Age: 30
Birth Date: 21 feb 1845
Marriage Date: 26 des 1875 (26 Dec 1875)
Marriage Place: Sarpsborg, Østfold, Norway
Father: Sander Helgesen
Spouse: Anne Sofie Halvorsen
FHL Film Number: 1259715
Reference ID: item 2 p 161 19
According to the 1900 Norwegian Census, they had at least 5 more children, who seem to be using the Sandersen last name, at least in this census.
http://www.rhd.uit.no/folketellinger/ftliste_e.aspx?ft=1900&knr=0102&kenr=005&bnr=0030&lnr=03
Probably a dead end here. I think this is the Sigvard Sandersen in the 1900 Census, shows him married.
http://www.rhd.uit.no/folketellinger/ftliste_e.aspx?ft=1900&knr=0301&kenr=433&bnr=0012&lnr=07 |
Edited by - AntonH on 26/10/2015 22:08:42 |
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Topic |
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Herman Sandersen South Africa
