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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9200 Posts |
 Posted - 10/08/2017 : 17:57:14
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A long shot for Jackie's John C from Mandt.
Johan Christian Christensen
in the Norway, Select Baptisms, 1634-1927
Name: Johan Christian Christensen
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 28 feb 1866
Baptism Date: 30 mar 1866
Baptism Place: , Jevnaker, Opland, Norway
Father: Christian Syvertsen
Mother: Johanne Jorgensdr
FHL Film Number: 307299
#22
Well Family Tree on Ancestry.com has this guy and his father and mother ending up in Minnesota and married to Marit Lovhaug. Going round in circles?
Johan Christian Christensen
BIRTH 28 FEB 1866 Jevnaker, Oppland fylke, Norway
DEATH 22 NOV 1924 Chippewa County, Minnesota, USA
Christen Syversen
BIRTH 30 JAN 1829 Jevnaker, Norway
DEATH 17 FEB 1900 Chippewa County, Minnesota, USA
Johanne Jorgensdatter
BIRTH 31 JUL 1825 Raenbrasten, Jevnaker, Opland, Norway
DEATH 19 SEP 1888 Chippewa County, Minnesota, USA
In the 1885 Minnesota State Census. Christen, wife and two childen Ole and Carl are living together. No Johan Christian.
Christen Syverson
in the Minnesota, Territorial and State Censuses, 1849-1905
Name: Christen Syverson
Age: 56
Census Date: 1 May 1885
County: Chippewa
Locality: Mandt
Birth Location: Norway
Gender: Male
Estimated birth year: abt 1829
Race: White
LINE: 5
Roll: MNSC_22
Likely this is him in the 1885 Minnesota State Census. On the farm of a Heinrich Gikke.
John Christianson
in the Minnesota, Territorial and State Censuses, 1849-1905
Name: John Christianson
Age: 18
Census Date: 1 May 1885
County: Chippewa
Locality: Tunsberg
Birth Location: Norway
Gender: Male
Estimated birth year: abt 1867
Race: White
LINE: 35
Roll: MNSC_22
While the counties of Chippewa and Watonwan are not hugely separate is it too much to ask for John C Christiansen to have had a relationship with a woman from a few counties away in 1889?
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Edited by - AntonH on 10/08/2017 22:18:31 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9200 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2017 : 22:24:39
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The question that I have not seen answered is where is Sophia Johnson the mother in the 1885 Minnesota State Census. Is she part of a Johnson family living in Watonwan County. Unfortunately there are 190 people born in Norway living in Watonwan in 1895.
None named Sophia or any variant in Chippewa County. Only one close is a Sarah Johnson born abt 1864 living with family named Frank Bostwick.
For those named Sophia only one in the vicinity of Watonwan is Sophia Johnson living in Steele in Owatanna in probably a rooming house born abt 1868.
None named Sophia Jons* or Sofia Johns* or Sofia Jons*
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Edited by - AntonH on 11/08/2017 00:47:28 |
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Walter Lee
Starting member
Canada
11 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2017 : 08:58:36
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Thanks to everyone that has responded to my post.
I am trying to follow up on all of the possibilities.
Thanks again for the great response. |
Walter M Lee |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9200 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2017 : 16:09:26
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| Walter, I wonder if if the grandson you are assisting has thought about trying to use a DNA test to aid his search? |
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Walter Lee
Starting member
Canada
11 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2017 : 19:58:20
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To be honest, I don't know enough about the precision of DNA testing that is now available to the average consumer to know if it would be beneficial or not.
Perhaps you could advise which DNA test would provide suitable results to help in this situation. |
Walter M Lee |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9200 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2017 : 16:43:06
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I have tried several DNA testing services with various degrees of satisfaction. I think for what the grandson is trying to accomplish I would take the following path.
Purchase a Y-67 DNA test kit from ftdna (Family Tree DNA). Use the kit as directed and wait patiently for the results from ftdna. You will get a set of log in credentials and eventually a log in page called myFTDNA Home. . When the test results are complete you will see on that page lots of places to click for information. Of most importance to the grandson is the box called Matches. Click on that and you will see the matches that the grandson has with other people who have taken the test. You will be looking for Genetic Distance of 1 or less. Meaning that he matches the other person in 67 of the 67 markers tested or at least match in 66 of the 67 markers tested. That is he wants to see an exact match. I think anything more than an exact match will not provide a connection with someone close enough to him to give a family connection within a meaningfull time frame.
For example for me the best Genetic Distance is a 4 ( meaning matches in 63 of the 67 markers tested) and with a man whose oldest known male line ancestor is an Englishman born abt 1605. For me my oldest known male line ancestor is Torjuss Herefoss born abt 1580 in Aust-Agder, Norway. These results show we have a family connection from about 1000 to 1500 years ago. Too far back into the past to be able to make a family connection between our two ancestors. Thus my comment that the grandson needs to have an exact match to be able to figure a family connection that means something.
If the grandson is very lucky he will have an exact match or at the very least one with a Genetic Distance of 1 and you can go further with that knowledge.
The reason I choose ftdna as the firm to get the DNA testing done takes you to the next step the Projects. In your Welcome to myFTDNA home page you will see in the upper left corner some other things to click on, one called Projects. Click on Join a Project and click on the Norway DNA - Norge project. There is some information on the Group and how to join. The grandson should join this project. After joining the Project will assign him to an Administrator who will help him understand what the testing that he has had done at ftdna really means. ftdna main goal is to get you to tested and then sell you more tests they are not very helpful in explainng what the test results mean. The Norway project Administrator will place the grandsons test results in a list of test results of about 5000 people with Norwegian ancestry. If the grandson is very lucky he will get a Exact Match here i.e. match of 67 of the 67 markers and be closely related to a person next to him in the list of test results. The Administrator will have placed the grandson in the list of all tested Norwegian from the Norway project in the chart labelled DNA results and you can exam some of the results in the chart called Classic Chart. His DNA results will govern where he gets placed in the chart and if lucky he will be closely related to people placed next to him in the chart. If like me he is not lucky he will have not be related to others in the chart and be placed in his own section.
But as time goes by more people will be tested and an exact match could turn up.
Some links
ftdna
Norway Project |
Edited by - AntonH on 12/08/2017 17:12:11 |
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Walter Lee
Starting member
Canada
11 Posts |
Posted - 14/08/2017 : 11:18:53
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Thank you for the excellent detailed information on DNA testing in a format that even I can easily understand!
I have passed your information on to the grandson for him to review.
Thanks again, your assistance is very much appreciated. |
Walter M Lee |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9200 Posts |
Posted - 16/08/2017 : 03:01:55
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| Also see my post on same person at the top of the page |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 16/08/2017 : 05:19:48
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| Well you asked is it too much distance between the two counties Chippewa and Watonwan for a relationship to develop if each one of a couple lived in either county. But we don't know anything about Sophie either. She could have lived anywhere and just moved to Watonwan for the birth (away from prying eyes?) |
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Walter Lee
Starting member
Canada
11 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2018 : 10:10:17
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Hello again!
An update to William Christianson's grandson's search for his Norwegian ancestors.
He had purchased a Y-67 DNA test kit from ftdna (Family Tree DNA) and has received the results from ftdna. He received a set of log in credentials and eventually a log in page called myFTDNA Home.
He sent me an excel spreadsheet that contains 2121 matches, c/w full names and email addresses of the matches.
The top 4 matches show the following information:
Shared cM = 77.5418014526 with a longest block of 31.176410675
Shared cM = 71.6413726807 with a longest block of 38.7074203491
Shared cM = 67.6558990479 with a longest block of 26.6963005066
Shared cM = 60.746421814 with a longest block of 23.996919632
The spreadsheet doesn't refer anywhere to Genetic Distance.
Unfortunately, neither I nor the grandson seems to know how to proceed from here, other than perhaps to contact the 4 matches shown above.
Could you please advise path forward?
Thanks again, |
Walter M Lee |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 13/01/2018 : 21:12:02
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Have you done this?
"Click on Join a Project and click on the Norway DNA - Norge project. There is some information on the Group and how to join. The grandson should join this project. After joining the Project will assign him to an Administrator who will help him understand what the testing that he has had done at ftdna really means. ftdna main goal is to get you to tested and then sell you more tests they are not very helpful in explainng what the test results mean. The Norway project Administrator will place the grandsons test results in a list of test results of about 5000 people with Norwegian ancestry. If the grandson is very lucky he will get a Exact Match here i.e. match of 67 of the 67 markers and be closely related to a person next to him in the list of test results. The Administrator will have placed the grandson in the list of all tested Norwegian from the Norway project in the chart labelled DNA results and you can exam some of the results in the chart called Classic Chart. His DNA results will govern where he gets placed in the chart and if lucky he will be closely related to people placed next to him in the chart. If like me he is not lucky he will have not be related to others in the chart and be placed in his own section. "
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9200 Posts |
Posted - 13/01/2018 : 23:38:37
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Excellent advice from Jackie. Only thing I would add is that if you click on the box marked Matches on the page called myFTDNA Home you should see a list of matches ranked by Genetic Distance.
You are looking for matches with a Genetic Distance of 0 or 1.
Genetic Distance Relationship Interpretation
0 Very Tightly Related A 67/67 match between two men who share a common surname (or variant) means they share a common male ancestor within the genealogical time frame. Their relatedness is extremely close. All confidence levels are well within the time frame that surnames were adopted in Western Europe with the common ancestor predicted, 50% of the time, in three generations or less and with a 90% probability within five generations. Very few people achieve this close level of a match.
Link |
Edited by - AntonH on 14/01/2018 17:21:10 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9200 Posts |
Posted - 14/01/2018 : 17:23:30
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When I click on the box labelled Matches on my page called myFTDNAHome the next page contains information on my matches. I have copied below essentially what it contains that is the name of the person submitting the sample, the Genetic Distance and the name of oldest know ancestor in fathers fathers etc. line.
Genetic Distance
4
Name
Keith Russell
Earliest Known Ancestor
William Russell, b. 1605, Abbots Langley, England
As you can see his Earliest Known Ancestor is British. My earliest know ancestor is Torjuss Herefoss born about 1580 Herefoss, Aust-Agder, Norway.
Torjuss Herefoss is my 9th great grandfather.
I am a little disappointed that my nearest Genetic Distance on FTDNA is a 4 as that is not very close. Talking with the folks at The Norway Project as to what this all means gave me the following information. A genetic distance of 4 likely means that I and Keith Russel share a common ancestor from about 1000 years ago. That would be about 1000 AD or so. The most likely explanation is that during the Viking time a man had two sons. One son stayed in Norway and minded the farm and he would be my direct male ancestor. His brother went off with a band of Vikings to England where he may have liked the country well enough to have settled down and had a family. That would be Keith Russel's direct male ancestor.
That leaves a fairly large gap of unknown ancestors between Keith Russel's ancestor and mine. At least nine to ten generations.
Intersting enough there are Geni.com profiles for both ancestors.
Torgius Herefoss
Willam Russell |
Edited by - AntonH on 14/01/2018 18:00:03 |
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Walter Lee
Starting member
Canada
11 Posts |
Posted - 14/01/2018 : 20:11:34
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Thanks to both lyndal40 and to jkmarler for the responses to my latest request for information, it is much appreciated.
I have passed along the information to the grandson who will be using your information as he continues his search.
Thanks again... |
Walter M Lee |
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Christopher Christensen/Sophia Johnson/Twin sons
