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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
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ToreL
Advanced member
Norway
818 Posts |
 Posted - 24/09/2018 : 15:31:59
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In 1959 the newspaper Fædrelandsvennen (Norwegian IP-addresses) in Kristiansand printed a series of articles on the old Craft Guilds in that City, apparently based on material found in old protocols, and this (all IPs) cutout from July 25th that year recounts that on February 1st 1825, Niels Christiern Christensen, born in the City and a past master carpenter there, presented himself to his guild after having resided in Jylland (Jutland, Denmark) for some (unspecified) time, and expressed his wish to (re)enter the guild. Which was granted.
This could explain the several-year gap in the couple's baptisms in Kristiansand; quite possibly Susanne Marie and the Niels Christian below were born in Jutland:
Name: Niels Christian Nielsen
Birth Date: 1819
Birthplace:
Age: 23
Spouse's Name: Abel Karine Michelsdatter
Spouse's Birth Date: 1818
Spouse's Birthplace:
Spouse's Age: 24
Event Date: 06 Dec 1842
Event Place: Stavanger, Rogaland, Norway
Father's Name: Niels Christian Christensen
Mother's Name:
Spouse's Father's Name: Michel Thorsen
Spouse's Mother's Name:
Race:
Marital Status:
Previous Wife's Name:
Spouse's Race:
Spouse's Marital Status:
Spouse's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M42375-8
System Origin: Norway-EASy
GS Film number: 307145
Reference ID: vol 15
Citing this Record:
"Norway Marriages, 1660-1926," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N7RW-XBF : 10 February 2018), Niels Christian Nielsen and Abel Karine Michelsdatter, 06 Dec 1842; citing Stavanger, Rogaland, Norway; FHL microfilm 307,145.
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Edited by - ToreL on 24/09/2018 15:36:28 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 24/09/2018 : 17:00:00
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| Are there any old craftsmans guild records from Stavanger, ie for Simon Erlandsen? |
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ToreL
Advanced member
Norway
818 Posts |
Posted - 24/09/2018 : 20:39:47
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| Some protocols and documents from the old guilds are preserved in local archives, but very little is available online. During the late 1800's and the 1900's many of the Norwegian cities published/printed written "Borgerbooks" with lists of master craftsmen and merchants from late medieval times (records permitting) and until the whole guild system fell apart in the middle 1800s. There is a borgerbook for Kristiansand (mentioned above) which stops at 1820, and one for Stavanger that stops at 1850. Only the first mentions Niels Christian Christensen and neither mentions Simon Erlandsen. |
Edited by - ToreL on 24/09/2018 21:09:16 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9216 Posts |
Posted - 24/09/2018 : 21:48:01
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Well here is the marriage record for Simon Erlandsen and Bertha Osmundsdater. Not been easy to find.
Bertha Osmundsdater
in the U.S., Evangelical Lutheran Church in America Church Records, 1826-1969
Name: Bertha Osmundsdater
Gender: Female
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 1 Apr 1855
Marriage Place: Lisbon, Illinois, USA
Spouse: Limon Erlandsen
Church Name: Lisbon Lutheran Parish
Church Location: Lisbon, Illinois
There are not many Ber* Osmundsdatters born 1824 plus/minus 2 and Ber* Osmunds* born 1821 plus/minus 2 in the Ancestry.com Norwegian Baptism data base. In fact only three , all in Rogaland. I also found a marriage record for two of them in Norway so that rules out those two . Third one is this one.
Berta Olina Osmundsen
in the Norway, Select Baptisms, 1634-1927
Name: Berta Olina Osmundsen
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 29 jul 1826
Baptism Date: 3 sep 1826
Baptism Place: Jelsa,Rogaland,Norway
Father: Osmund Larsen
Mother: Torborg Olsdr
FHL Film Number: 126144
#27
Likely the marriage record of Osmund Larsen and Torborg Olsdatter.
Osmund Larsen
in the Norway, Select Marriages, 1660-1926
Name: Osmund Larsen
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 22 okt 1825 (22 Oct 1825)
Marriage Place: Jelsa,Rogaland,Norway
Spouse: Torborg Olsdr
FHL Film Number: 126144
However a word of caution, this Berte Osmundsdatter would seem to be good match for her as well, Married and living in Rogaland in 1865.
1865
This Tree also seems to support the conclusion that Berta Olina from Jesla is not the same as the Berte from Illinois.
Tree |
Edited by - AntonH on 25/09/2018 20:52:55 |
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ToreL
Advanced member
Norway
818 Posts |
Posted - 24/09/2018 : 22:22:04
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| Good job. Have you looked for Susanne Marie’s burial in the same American source? |
Edited by - ToreL on 27/09/2018 12:56:42 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9216 Posts |
Posted - 24/09/2018 : 22:52:47
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| Yes I have looked for her, but the book seems to contain only baptism, confirmation and marriage records for the Chicago congregation, and not many of them. |
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ToreL
Advanced member
Norway
818 Posts |
Posted - 25/09/2018 : 15:06:00
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quote:
There are not many Ber* Osmundsdatters born 1824 plus/minus 2 in the Ancestry.com Norwegian Baptism data base.
Why 1824? The original post in the thread says 1822, and estimating from the tombstone 1821 is even more probable.
Is there a chance she could have been born in America? |
Edited by - ToreL on 25/09/2018 15:17:28 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9216 Posts |
Posted - 25/09/2018 : 21:27:23
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quote:
Why 1824? The original post in the thread says 1822, and estimating from the tombstone 1821 is even more probable.
Is there a chance she could have been born in America?
Expanding the search to 1819 to 1826 turned up one more candidate, also born in Rogaland. However a marriage was also found for here essentially eliminating her as a candidate.
The US Census date indicate that Bertha was born abt 1822 or 1823 in Norway and came to America in 1853. |
Edited by - AntonH on 25/09/2018 21:28:22 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9216 Posts |
Posted - 25/09/2018 : 22:45:23
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Looking a little at the parents of Simen Erlandsen born in 1823 in Øyer, Oppland. There is a Eland Syversen and wife Mari Johansdatter living on Hovsven in the 1865 Census .
1865
Probably the marriage of this couple.
Erland Siversen
in the Norway, Select Marriages, 1660-1926
Name: Erland Siversen
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 23 okt 1820 (23 Oct 1820)
Marriage Place: Oyer,Opland,Norway
Spouse: Marie Johannesdr
FHL Film Number: 125545
Link
They had at least eight children from Johannes born Dec 19, 1820 bap Jan 1, 1821 to Marit born June 15, 1835 bap June 28, 1835, including above Simen and also Frans from the 1865 Census.
Name: Frants Erlandsen
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 19 sep 1831
Baptism Date: 22 sep 1831
Baptism Place: Oyer,Opland,Norway
Father: Erland Syversen
Mother: Mari Johannesdr
FHL Film Number: 125546 |
Edited by - AntonH on 26/09/2018 01:39:17 |
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ToreL
Advanced member
Norway
818 Posts |
Posted - 25/09/2018 : 23:28:48
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| Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a proper bygdebok (in the sense of providing genealogical information) for Øyer to check against, but the above looks quite convincing. According to this profile on Geni there were even more children, including another emigrant. |
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David Wallace
Medium member
USA
75 Posts |
Posted - 27/09/2018 : 04:28:20
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Thanks everyone and especially Lyndal40 who found Bertha’s patronymic. I now suspect that Bertha may have been Simon Erlandsen’s second wife, perhaps married in America. Bertha in the 1900 US census declared her immigration year to be 1853, but Simon’s first wife died in Stavanger in 1854. I also learned that Chicago may not have been the original destination upon immigration, Racine county Wisconsin may have been. I will explore the Britton line and look for confirmation in Norwegian church books of my guesses about Simon remarrying.
wallacedavidb@gmail.com |
DBWallace |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 27/09/2018 : 04:34:27
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David you don't have to suspect that Simon married in Bertha in America, Anton posted the image of the actual church record of the marriage above!
The headline on the page says "Marriages in Chicago". There may or may not be any civil record of the marriage because of the great Chicago fire in 1871, which apparently destroyed them. |
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David Wallace
Medium member
USA
75 Posts |
Posted - 27/09/2018 : 04:44:27
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| There is no compelling reason to think Bertha came from Rogaland. 1900 US census gives her birth as April 1822 in Norway. She may have met Simon in Chicago. The Lisbon Illinois marriage record is a great find, but I suspect that the Lisbon clergyman was itinerant to a congregation in Chicago, supported by the fact that their first born Theo was also the first record in the church in Chicago in 1857. |
DBWallace |
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Topic |
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Help me find Norway origins of a ships carpenter.
