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MarkPeter
Medium member
Australia
98 Posts |
 Posted - 21/01/2019 : 13:02:31
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| Hi, I’m after any information on a Johan Carl Pederson, whom we think was born about 1829. He maybe had a father named Peter Palmstrom from Norway. Johan Carl, (we think that might have been his original name,) changed his name to Charles Peterson when he married an Ellen Cavanagh from Ireland, in New York in about 1855 and then both moved to Australia. Thx |
Edited by - MarkPeter on 21/01/2019 23:42:52 |
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ToreL
Advanced member
Norway
818 Posts |
Posted - 21/01/2019 : 13:54:36
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This matches a baptism in Arendal on April 22, 1829: (No. 6)
https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/772/4721/47
There is a comment here that the parents were married on the same day that the son was baptised, which is confirmed by the following (No. 6 to the right)
https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/772/4728/9
The mother's name is given as Elisabeth Marie Larsdatter, 24 years old, while the father is 26 years old. The father appears to be from Kristiansand, but someone who is better at reading the old gothic handwriting should be able to get more out of these entries.
This couple had at least three other children, and the mother lived to be a very old woman. Do you have any more information (names of siblings?) to confirm the match? |
Edited by - ToreL on 21/01/2019 14:08:17 |
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ToreL
Advanced member
Norway
818 Posts |
Posted - 21/01/2019 : 14:43:50
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OK, Mark, you have done some work on this already, and have recorded Johan Carl's parents and sibling at Geni:
https://www.geni.com/people/Peter-Andreas-Palmstr%C3%B8m/6000000019196236740
So, in order for us not to waste any more time on rediscovering what you have already found, could you please state more explicitly what you are after? Is it correct to understand that your primary objective is to find confirmation that your ancestor was indeed identical to this person Johan Carl, whom you have already researched extensively?
At the Geni site you Write:
Charles Peterson was born in Arendal - Norway on the 21st March 1829, and died in Rapanyup Victoria on the 23rd February 1895,at the age of 67
If all of this is information that you already had about your ancestor before you began to search for possible matches, then it seems fairly clear that you have indeed found your man.
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Edited by - ToreL on 21/01/2019 16:38:33 |
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ToreL
Advanced member
Norway
818 Posts |
Posted - 21/01/2019 : 18:08:01
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In any event, Johan Carl Palmstrøm was confirmed in 1844, and other members of the Palmström family also seem to have concluded that he ended up in Australia:
http://palmstrom.net/AP/english/english_text.pdf
There is contact information here, so you may ask them how they came to the conclusion. It seems that they will also be able to tell you that you are of noble lineage:
http://www.palmstrom.net/
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MarkPeter
Medium member
Australia
98 Posts |
Posted - 21/01/2019 : 23:57:05
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| Thx ToreL, you have made my day and week. We think it was Johan Carl Pederson from Arendal born in about 1828/29, but can’t find him on any passenger shipping lists to New York, USA, where he married Ellen Cavanagh in 1855. We have found a Charles Peterson and Ellen passenger list to Australia, BUT not Johan from Norway to New York or Ellen from Ireland to New York with her family in about 1850? So Ellen would have been 12/13 on the ship from Irelyto USA. Ellen’s 2 passenger shipping lists I have come across , 1 hasn’t got an adult father immigrating with the family and the other hasn’t got the same siblings as we have been told by family members. So Johan would have to of been in New York at least 1 year ( you would think ) before getting married to Ellen and then coming to Australia. |
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peder
Advanced member
USA
835 Posts |
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ToreL
Advanced member
Norway
818 Posts |
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MarkPeter
Medium member
Australia
98 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2019 : 00:12:54
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| Thx everyone, the main reason I’m still looking for clarification is, that we aren’t 100% sure what Charles Peterson’s name was before he got to New York, USA in about 1847-1855. Great great aunts have said that he was from Norway. Others have said they thought Peterson had 2 Ts and/or 2 Ss in the Surname. Eg; Petterson, Pettersson, Petersson. So, does Palmstrom mean Peters Son in Norway/Sweden? We only know that he married an Ellen Cavanagh in Troy, New York, USA in 1855 and then they both came to Australia in 1856. I can see that a Johan Carl Palmstrom from Kristiansand Norway cane to Australia via USA in about 1855/56. So, we really need to know if that’s him and related to the nobility family of Johan Mattsson Lange, 1621-1686. Thx for any new info, regards Mark Peterson |
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MarkPeter
Medium member
Australia
98 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2019 : 00:15:19
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| PS: Do you think Charles Peterson might have changed Carl to Charles and Palmstrom to Peterson? |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9216 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2019 : 00:56:44
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quote:
So, does Palmstrom mean Peters Son in Norway/Sweden?
No, it appears that this family carried the last name forward and did not use the more common Norwegian naming practice of the son using the fathers first name plus sen or son.
Sometimes that was done if the family felt that a certain last name had social value. Perhaps it was the name of a noble family etc.
In your case your Johan Carl born 1829 was confirmed in 1844 with the name Johan Carl Palmstrom.
His father was named Peter Andreas Palmstrom born March 22, 1803.
Left page 22 March
His father was Johan Peter Palmstrom married June 12, 1802
12, June Right hand page
So there you have three generations using the same last name, not common in Norway at the time but sometimes found.
Taking another step there is a Johan Palmstrøm in the 1801 Census living in Krisitainsand born about 1762 unmarried.
1801
Does he come from the Swedish Palmstrøm family or does he just use the name for whatever reason?
If memory serves me right I think we have been down this trail before.
Also the above matches the tree you have on Ancestry.com but does not seem to match the tree on Geni.com. |
Edited by - AntonH on 06/02/2019 03:30:40 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9216 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2019 : 02:35:41
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Continuing on the last person in the backward line above was Johan Palmstrøm. born about 1762 who married Marie Catherine Pedersdatter Stahl. This is likely Marie Catherine in the 1801 Censsus living with probably her brother in Kristiansand. His name is listed here as Petter Pettersen Saael.
1801
Likely the brother here
Name: Peder Petersen
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 5 jul 1777
Baptism Date: 12 jul 1777
Baptism Place: Kristiansand, Vest-Agder, Norway
Father: Peter Hansen Kraft
Mother: Sidsel Pedersdr
FHL Film Number: 127312
#62
Peter Hansen and wife Sidsel in 1801 Census
1801 |
Edited by - AntonH on 06/02/2019 03:36:37 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9216 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2019 : 04:27:12
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quote:
PS: Do you think Charles Peterson might have changed Carl to Charles and Palmstrom to Peterson?
It would not be out of the ordinary for those changes. We have seen much bigger ones come through this Forum. Carl or Karl to Charles is reasonable. And remember that the first name of his father was Peter so he would be using the standard Norwegian naming practice. |
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MarkPeter
Medium member
Australia
98 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2019 : 09:44:58
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Thx Lyndal40. So are you saying my Charles Peterson was once known as Johan Carl Palmstrom from the family of nobility or not? If think it was Johan Carl Palmstrom and once he got to USA he changed it to Charles Peterson, so that maybe the Americans could pronounce it easier.
My Ancestry Family Tree isn’t 100% correct yet and the Eni one was done years ago by me as an amateur, and I’m still an amateur to this day.
It doesn’t help when the church in Troy, New York, USA, where they got married in was burnt down and all records were lost. But we do know they came to Australia in 1856 on a ship named Gertrude.
I really just want to know if he was Johan Carl Palmstrom from Norway with or without a nobility family, so I can then go back further on our family tree, thx always Mark |
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MarkPeter
Medium member
Australia
98 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2019 : 10:11:39
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| The Geni.com info was done ages ago and only just starting to research the Peterson family tree. |
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ToreL
Advanced member
Norway
818 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2019 : 10:13:06
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| Did you contact the People at palmstrom.net and ask how they concluded that Johan Carl Palmstrøm ended up in Australia? |
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ToreL
Advanced member
Norway
818 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2019 : 10:35:43
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| The translation of Carl/Karl to Charles is fairly standard, ref. the Swedish and English Wikipedia articles on Carl XII of Sweden. |
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Peterson/Palmstrom Family Tree Help Needed Please
