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lizabethbibler
Starting member

USA
10 Posts

Posted - 08/04/2021 :  23:39:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Those are some of the ‘peculiar’ things we had heard about Johan Johansen Moe!
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran

Norway
4961 Posts

Posted - 08/04/2021 :  23:48:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
He married Maren Gundersdtr. Haabro 15 Jul 1863. She is the mother to Oline Randine born 3 months later...

(#3 right page) https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/16309/92469/17

Edited by - jwiborg on 08/04/2021 23:48:53
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran

Norway
4961 Posts

Posted - 08/04/2021 :  23:54:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here's a clip from the 1939-movie about Gjest Baardsen...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_uu2zi-UTA
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran

USA
7765 Posts

Posted - 08/04/2021 :  23:57:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jwiborg

quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler

Not sure I know who Gjest is....Details please

Gjest Baardsen (1791-1849) was a Norwegian criminal (and author) from Sogndal.
He is known for his many escapes from custody. There are many stories, myths and stories about Baardsen, about his travels and deeds.

In 1827 he was sentenced to life imprisonment and sent to Akershus Castle. In captivity he wrote, among other things, his autobiography three volumes), in which he largely constructed a version of his own life as a romantic and chivalrously righteous gentleman thief.
He was pardoned in 1845. For the rest of his life he traveled and sold his books.
There have been made movies about his life.

He is the father of Inger Maria Berg born 1818 in Trondheim. Her mother is Elen Birgitte Larsdatter Moe, which is also Johan's mother.



Didn't have restorative justice back then. Thanks for info. & the amusing movie clip.

Edited by - jkmarler on 09/04/2021 00:11:09
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran

USA
7765 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2021 :  00:00:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jwiborg

quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler

Its a different Oline. She was born in 1840 and baptized in Var Frue church.
Where do you see 1840?
The Oline Randine born 20 Oct 1863 is listed with father Johan Andreas Johnsen Haabroen (16 Apr 1812 - 03 Sep 1871) in several sources.



In this one:
Another for a busy man # 21 is his, too but this time with farm name Moe added:
Sør-Trøndelag county, Vår Frue in Trondheim, Parish register (official) no. 602A08 (1840-1854), Born and baptised 1840, Page 2
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20050610020148

Oline Andrea doesn't survive:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/267/pg00000000538908
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran

Norway
4961 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2021 :  00:07:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Have you seen any DNA matches with descendants of Oline Randine Johansdatter Hamneholm (Moe) (1863-1955)?
There are descendants of her that are genealogists...




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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran

Norway
4961 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2021 :  00:10:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
In this one:
Another for a busy man # 21 is his, too but this time with farm name Moe added:
Sør-Trøndelag county, Vår Frue in Trondheim, Parish register (official) no. 602A08 (1840-1854), Born and baptised 1840, Page 2
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20050610020148

Oline Andrea doesn't survive:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/267/pg00000000538908


Yes. Two different Oline, but same father.
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran

USA
7765 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2021 :  00:17:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jwiborg

quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
In this one:
Another for a busy man # 21 is his, too but this time with farm name Moe added:
Sør-Trøndelag county, Vår Frue in Trondheim, Parish register (official) no. 602A08 (1840-1854), Born and baptised 1840, Page 2
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20050610020148

Oline Andrea doesn't survive:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/267/pg00000000538908


Yes. Two different Oline, but same father.



Okay. Here he comes back into Trondheim in 1868 # 2-4 with wife and daughter Randine:
Sør-Trøndelag county, Domkirken in Trondheim, Parish register (official) no. 601A23 (1866-1877), In- and out-migrated 1868, Page 505
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20050613011112
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lizabethbibler
Starting member

USA
10 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2021 :  00:49:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We actually have seen something of Oline Randine and her descendants that are Geneologists and they were very kind in assisting us and they were also very certain my cousins and I were related to Johan Johansen Moe based on their paper trail. But, one of my cousins who is very astute regarding DNA matches couldn’t find sufficient evidence of a blood trail to satisfy her. Our problem has been that until today when you discovered other children he had fathered and he was identified by his military unit and number, we had no way of knowing that our Johan was a Moe. Now we must follow his bloodline if we can and see if we find descendants that are in our DNA matches. There must be a lot because that guy really got around. A real charmer. And thanks for sending the movie clip!
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran

USA
7765 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2021 :  00:52:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
DNA results depend a lot on the type of testing done. And you still have to have the paper trail.

Is this the Elen Larsdatter in question?
https://www.nb.no/items/cdb8f765d00b66147ebf41b49edbf76d?page=0&searchText=%22elen%20larsdatter%20moe%22

Sounds like a child died and Elen was punished?

Edited by - jkmarler on 09/04/2021 00:55:10
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran

Norway
4961 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2021 :  01:26:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler

DNA results depend a lot on the type of testing done. And you still have to have the paper trail.

Is this the Elen Larsdatter in question?
https://www.nb.no/items/cdb8f765d00b66147ebf41b49edbf76d?page=0&searchText=%22elen%20larsdatter%20moe%22

Sounds like a child died and Elen was punished?

Hmmm... sentenced to have her head cut off and put on a pole for killing her own child... later changed to penitentiary work for life.

The 3 reasons for pardon (lifetime penitentiary instead of having her head cut off):
1. The highest despair, brought about by a particularly entanglement of highly unfortunate circumstances seems to have led her to commit this crime;
2. She, who herself did not own anything, has asked the father of the child for child support.
3. Her youth and outspoken confession

It is the same woman!

Gjest Baardsen ended up in the Town Hall arrest in Trondheim in October 1817. He was charged with a number of crimes, including robbery and theft. In prison, he met Elen Larsdatter Moe, who was in prison for child murder (drowning a boy?). The two became lovers and eventually managed to escape together. In 1818 she sat on Tukthuset with a life sentence. That same year, she gave birth to a daughter. She was released for good behavour in 1833.

Elen Birgithe Larsdatter Moe is also mentioned in some newpaper articles with a man named "Even Christiansen". That is an alias for Gjest Baardsen.
When he fathered the daughter with Elen Larsdatter in 1818, he gave his name as "Johan Petter Svendsen from Bergen".

Edited by - jwiborg on 09/04/2021 02:02:01
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran

Norway
4961 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2021 :  02:11:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Synopsis for the movie clip:
Gjest Baardsen escapes from Akershus Castle, steal valuables from farms and give away money to some old women.
He play the violin at a wedding and gets recognized and captured, and taken temporary to a smithy by the local police chief and his deputant.
Gjest ask why he is not taken to the prison cell instead, and the police chief replies he has just slaughtered, so the prison was full of meat and pork and sausages. He does not want Gjest nearby...

The police chief ask Gjest why he had to travel through his district. He is afraid of his reputation when Gjest eventually will escape again.
The deputant promises to eat his shoes if Gjest manage to escape from the smithy.

They come back with some food and more chains to lock him more up, and find that he has escaped from the chains and is sitting on top of the roof.
Gjest says it was so sad and cold down in the smithy, so he wanted to get up in the sun and the heat. -I wanted to sit here and watch your deputy eating his shoes.
Gjest: Don't cry police chief. I will come down to you. (..) When I was arrested for the first time, I was innocent. I then swore that I would seek revenge on rich people and government. I promise I will escape this time also, but I will wait until you have put me on the transport to Bergen prison, so you are not responsible for me anymore. I don't want to bring shame on you by escaping.
Police chief: Oh, you are so kind!
Gjest: Who do think will transport me to Bergen?
Police chief: I think 1st stage will be by the Police chief from Vik, then next stage will be by the police chief from Manger...
Gjest: OK. Then I will wait with the escape until I get to Manger. Because I have already escaped from the Police chief from Vik twice. I have to spread their burden a little...

Edited by - jwiborg on 09/04/2021 02:15:12
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran

Norway
4961 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2021 :  03:09:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
From the Supreme Court Sentence 21 May 1818:

Elen Birgitte Larsdatter Moe (Hansteen)
Born 1792
Married 1813 to a baker journeyman from Trondheim
Got a child, but after two years they split up and the father took care of the child support.
She then lived by her own without any work. In October 1815 she gave birth to a child with a married farmer (double whoredom), Jens Olsen.
The boy was named Olaus, christened on the 28th. (april 1816)
On 12 May 1817, she was sentenced to 2 months penitentiary work for theft.
Her illegitimate son Olaus was then already (since winter of 1816-1817) on support from the poor relief fund, and raised by a foster woman in Trondheim.

When Elen was released from the penitentiary work prison on 14 Jul 1817 at 9:30 AM, the foster mother was waiting outside the prison with Olaus.
She could no longer take care of him. Elen then took Olaus, who was now 1y 9m old, and promised to behave properly and take care of him.

Elen had learned that Olaus' father had come to town, so she went to the district Ila, where she met him, and asked him for assistance for child support.
He refused to pay for any support, and Elen took the child down to the bay of the Trondheim fiord.

At 11 AM she placed her son (which were asleep) on a dry rock. The rock would be under water at high tide, and any movement would also result in the baby falling into the water.
At 2:30 PM the baby was found drowned by a soldier that was going for a bath.

Some witnesses claim that the rock at 11 AM already would have been 2 feet below water, so it is not unlikely that Elen could have thrown the baby into the water.
On the return trip from the bay, she met with several people that asked her where her son was, whereby she replied that she had left him with a woman in Ila, and that he now had a good foster mother, and was taken good care of.

When she was arrested after the soldier's findings, she immediately confessed.
The autopsy showed that the boy (which was healthy and well, and could walk and speak a little) was dead by drowning, and there were no traces of external violence to the body.
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran

Norway
4961 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2021 :  07:05:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Regarding this from the supreme court verdict:
"Married 1813 to a baker journeyman from Trondheim. Got a child, but after two years they split up and the father took care of the child support."

Marriage 19 Mar 1812; baker journeyman Jon Moe & Elen Birgitha Larsdatter Øvre
https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/16334/50791/58

The child mentioned is your Johan Andreas, born 16 Apr 1812.
#62 https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/16327/50756/216

His father is baker journeyman John Jensen Moe, born 1784 (Agdenes), dead 08 Jan 1827. "Found dead in the Nidelv river under a dock house on Bakklandet, Trondheim."

Thus, by the age of 2, Johans mother left the household. By the age of 5 his mother was sentenced to have her head cut off and put on a pole (later changed to life imprisonment), and by the age of 14 his father was found dead in the river.

Regarding Gjest Baardsens autobiography; Elen is widely mentioned throughout the book; How they first met, her reactions to the death penalty, how they escaped from the prison, how she got sea-sick during their escape by boat etc etc...

Edited by - jwiborg on 09/04/2021 12:04:16
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Borge
Veteran Moderator

Norway
1293 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2021 :  12:40:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Census 1865: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/census/person/pf01038329001459

Børge Solem
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