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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9216 Posts |
 Posted - 21/10/2018 : 03:45:12
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Going further is possible with Mari Johansdatter by following one or the other of the two Trees shown above. However neither of those trees show parents for Hans Mattisen (various spellings)
Here is a rough guide to the family as I see it.
Anders Johansen Aug 7, 1819 Brandvold, Grue, Hedmark
Parents are
Johan Hansen and Lisbet Johansdatter married Dec 16, 1810 Grue, Hedmark
Johan Hansen born Jan 27, 1771 Brandvold Hedmark
Parents are Hans Mathisen and Mari Johansdatter married July 1, 1770 Vinger, Hedmark
No parents have been found for Hans Mathisen born about 1752.
Parents of Marie Johansdatter Kirnuinen born about 1752 Vinger, Hedmark are Johan Abrahamsen Kirnuinen born about 1719 Grue, Hedmark and Lisbet Johansdatter Hämäläinen born about 1720 Långsjöhöjden, Lekvattnet, Värmland, Sweden.
You can follow this family line back in time with any of the Trees.
Here is a very good Tree that starts with Johan Abrahamsen Kirnuinen. A good Tree because it has original sources.
Tree |
Edited by - AntonH on 21/10/2018 16:55:06 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9216 Posts |
Posted - 21/10/2018 : 04:12:23
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So the above rough guide does not cover the mother of Anders Johansen born 1819. The best candidate is
Lisbet Johansen
in the Norway, Select Baptisms, 1634-1927Name: Lisbet Johansen
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 26 okt 1788 (26 Oct 1788)
Baptism Place: Grue,Hedmark,Norway
Father: Johan Johansen
Mother: Anne Andersdr
FHL Film Number: 124284
In her original record she has the farm name of Meinkroke (probably a version of Menkrogen used in the marriage record.
#113
Here is the family in the 1801 Census
1801
Very likely the marriage of the parents Johan Johansen and Anne Andersdatter
Johan Johansen
in the Norway, Select Marriages, 1660-1926
Name: Johan Johansen
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 19 mai 1777 (19 May 1777)
Marriage Place: Grue,Hedmark,Norway
Spouse: Anne Andersdr
FHL Film Number: 124284
Original record under the 2. pinedag left page, second marriage from the bottom of the page
Link |
Edited by - AntonH on 22/10/2018 23:13:56 |
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volsen
Medium member
USA
104 Posts |
Posted - 23/10/2018 : 07:00:34
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quote:
Originally posted by lyndal40
So the above rough guide does not cover the mother of Anders Johansen born 1819. The best candidate is
Lisbet Johansen
in the Norway, Select Baptisms, 1634-1927Name: Lisbet Johansen
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 26 okt 1788 (26 Oct 1788)
Baptism Place: Grue,Hedmark,Norway
Father: Johan Johansen
Mother: Anne Andersdr
FHL Film Number: 124284
In her original record she has the farm name of Meinkroke (probably a version of Menkrogen used in the marriage record.
#113
Here is the family in the 1801 Census
1801
Very likely the marriage of the parents Johan Johansen and Anne Andersdatter
Johan Johansen
in the Norway, Select Marriages, 1660-1926
Name: Johan Johansen
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 19 mai 1777 (19 May 1777)
Marriage Place: Grue,Hedmark,Norway
Spouse: Anne Andersdr
FHL Film Number: 124284
Original record under the 2. pinedag left page, second marriage from the bottom of the page
Link
Thank you so much that must be correct I already have made DNA connections. I appreciate all your help. |
volsen |
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volsen
Medium member
USA
104 Posts |
Posted - 26/10/2018 : 15:30:02
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quote:
Originally posted by volsen
quote:
Originally posted by lyndal40
So the above rough guide does not cover the mother of Anders Johansen born 1819. The best candidate is
Lisbet Johansen
in the Norway, Select Baptisms, 1634-1927Name: Lisbet Johansen
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 26 okt 1788 (26 Oct 1788)
Baptism Place: Grue,Hedmark,Norway
Father: Johan Johansen
Mother: Anne Andersdr
FHL Film Number: 124284
In her original record she has the farm name of Meinkroke (probably a version of Menkrogen used in the marriage record.
#113
Here is the family in the 1801 Census
1801
Very likely the marriage of the parents Johan Johansen and Anne Andersdatter
Johan Johansen
in the Norway, Select Marriages, 1660-1926
Name: Johan Johansen
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 19 mai 1777 (19 May 1777)
Marriage Place: Grue,Hedmark,Norway
Spouse: Anne Andersdr
FHL Film Number: 124284
Original record under the 2. pinedag left page, second marriage from the bottom of the page
Link
Thank you so much that must be correct I already have made DNA connections. I appreciate all your help.
I am being to question parents etc I have chose for another person/line
Berthe Eriksdatter
1814 • Hedmark, Norway
18 Feb 1863 • Malmerlia, Malmer, Eidskog, Hedmark, Norway
Spouse (DNA matches his line so I must have correct parents etc for him)
Arne Olsen Malmer
20 Jun 1818 • Malmer, Hedmark, Norway
16 Mar 1875 • Malmerlia, Malmer, Eidskog, Hedmark, Norway
Daughter
Anne Arnesdatter
31 Aug 1845 • Vinger, Hedmark, Norway
I am not sure if I am over thinking it or if there are more logical choices. I had her parents as
Erik Gundersen
1784
Hedmark, Norway
Eli Olsdr
1792
Erik gundersen parents as
Gunder Gundersen Raelingen
1756
Vinger, Hedmark, Norway
Ingeborg Eriksdr Prestegaarden
27 Jul 1760
Vinger, Hedmark, Norway
Gunder Gundersen Raelingen parents as
Gunder Arnesson Pramhuus Skougen
1711
Eidskog, Hedmark, Norway
Anne Larsdatter Achlamberg
1699 Eidskog Hedmark Norway
Ingeborg's parents as
Erich Olsøn Achlangberg
Marthe Torbjørnsdatter Kjærstad
1720
Kjærstad, Eidskog, Hedmark, Norway
I'd appreciate any help or advice you could give me. Thank you.
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9216 Posts |
Posted - 26/10/2018 : 16:54:28
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Well Eidskog was a part of Vinger during the time you are interested in. Secondly Erik Gundersen did not marry Eli Olsdatter until 1816 and I have not found a child for this couple in the Ancestry.com data base before Ole born in 1817. Here are the two records.
Erik Gundersen
in the Norway, Select Marriages, 1660-1926
Name: Erik Gundersen
Gender: Male
Age: 32
Birth Date: 1784
Marriage Date: 17 nov 1816
Marriage Place: Vinger, Hedmark, Norway
Spouse: Eli Olsdr
FHL Film Number: 124481
Reference ID: 1026
#69
Ole Eriksen
in the Norway, Select Baptisms, 1634-1927
Name: Ole Eriksen
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 9 apr 1817
Birth Place: Vinger, Hedmark, Norway
Baptism Date: 27 apr 1817
Baptism Place: Vinger, Hedmark, Norway
Father: Erik Gundersen Korphullet
Mother: Eli Olsdatter
FHL Film Number: 124482
Reference ID: bk7 p163
#54 |
Edited by - AntonH on 26/10/2018 17:01:29 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9216 Posts |
Posted - 26/10/2018 : 17:14:11
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I suspect that this is the marriage of the couple you are seeking
Berte Eriksdr
in the Norway, Select Marriages, 1660-1926
Name: Berte Eriksdr
[Berte Gundersen]
Gender: Female
Age: 27
Birth Date: 1814
Marriage Date: 27 mai 1841 (27 May 1841)
Marriage Place: Vinger, Hedmark, Norway
Father: Erik Gundersen
Spouse: Arne Olsen
FHL Film Number: 124483
Reference ID: 2:1G15VM6
#22
The farm after her name looks like Mellem i Odalen
There is a Erik Gundersen Mellum who paid a tax in 1816 who would be worth following up on.
Link
I see we visited this problem person back in August so it may take some time and digging to sort out the right father for your Berte Erikdsdatter.
Link
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Edited by - AntonH on 26/10/2018 17:45:55 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9216 Posts |
Posted - 26/10/2018 : 18:08:50
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Back in August Doug had posted from MyHeritage the info that indicated that the parents were Erik Eriksen and Johanne Hansdatter. That does not fit the marriage record. Here are the children of Erik Eriksen and Johanne Hansdatter.
Berthe Eriksdatter bap June 18, 1809 Vinger Hedmark
Link
Marte Eriksen born 27 feb 1814 bap 20 mar 1814 Sor Odal,Hedmark,Norway
For the baptism of Marte, father Erik Eriksen used the farm name Mellem.
#10
Ollia Eriksen born 12 feb 1816 bap 25 feb 1816 Sor Odal,Hedmark,Norway
Johanes Eriksen born 23 jan 1819 bap 7 feb 1819 Sor Odal,Hedmark,Norway
So something is amiss. There is no Berthe born in 1814 and the fathers name is not Erik Gundersen. |
Edited by - AntonH on 27/10/2018 00:26:49 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9216 Posts |
Posted - 26/10/2018 : 23:54:35
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I looked at her death notice. She is listed as having died in 1863 at age 55. That would put her birth year at 1808. That is a fairly close match to the Berthe Erikdsdattter born to Erik Eriksen and Johanne Hansdatter. in 1809.
#25
The would necessitate that the marriage record has the wrong last name for her father and is also off on her age.
I think the conclusion here is that the person you seek, Berthe Eriksdatter who married Arne Olsen in 1841 is Berte baptized June 18, 1809 to Erik Eriksen and Johanne Hansdatter in Vinger parish.
The moving around of the family caused much if not all of the mistakes in the parish records.
Here is another example of how the mistakes crept into the records. Bethe was confirmed in 1825 in the Strøm-Odalen parish ie Sør-Odal. She is number 21 on the girls side. Her baptism date listed in the record is 1809 June 18 which is correct. Her name is listed as Berte Ericksdatter Mellem i ? Vinger. Her mother is listed as Johanne Hansdatter which is also correct. However her father is listed as Erik Engerbretsen, which is of course not correct.
#21
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Edited by - AntonH on 27/10/2018 00:40:58 |
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volsen
Medium member
USA
104 Posts |
Posted - 27/10/2018 : 00:37:51
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quote:
Originally posted by lyndal40
I looked at her death notice. She is listed as having died in 1863 at age 55. That would put her birth year at 1808. That is a fairly close match to the Berthe Erikdsdattter born to Erik Eriksen and Johanne Hansdatter. in 1809.
#25
The would necessitate that the marriage record has the wrong last name for her father and is also off on her age.
I feel pretty confident these two facts are true
---------------------------------------------------------------
Arne Olsen
mentioned in the record of Anne Arnesdatter
Name: Arne Olsen
Sex: Male
Wife: Berte Eriksdr
Daughter: Anne Arnesdatter
Other information in the record of Anne Arnesdatter
from Norway Baptisms
Name: Anne Arnesdatter
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 31 Aug 1845
Christening Date: 26 Oct 1845
Christening Place: Vinger, Hedmark, Norway
Father's Name: Arne Olsen
Mother's Name: Berte Eriksdr
url
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NWNJ-KJQ
____________________________________________
Arne Andersen
Norway Baptisms, 1634-1927
Name: Arne Andersen
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 20 Jun 1818
Christening Date: 26 Jul 1818
Christening Place: Vinger, Hedmark, Norway
Father's Name: Ole Andersen
Mother's Name: Berthe Arnesdr
url
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NWF9-V9C
Given Arnes date of birth
It makes me think this the right marriage record but not sure.
Arne Olsen
Norway Marriages, 1660-1926
Name: Arne Olsen
Birth Date: 1818
Age: 23
Spouse's Name: Berte Eriksdr
Spouse's Birth Date: 1814
Spouse's Age: 27
Event Date: 27 May 1841
Event Place: Vinger, Hedmark, Norway
Father's Name: Ole Andersen
Spouse's Father's Name: Erik Gundersen
Looks like the same one you found
Not sure if death record is correct either.I had names list as Mellum for her and Malmer for him but probably from marriage record. I do see Malmer listed for his siblings.so might be correct.I have been able to confirm his line through DNA so I think his info is correct but with the birth before marriage date and small inconsistencies I assume I had wrong parents for her. |
Edited by - volsen on 27/10/2018 00:48:35 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9216 Posts |
Posted - 27/10/2018 : 00:43:10
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Yes I think you are correct in all assumptions including the one that you have the wrong parents for her. Her parents are Erik Ericksen and Johanne Hansdatter and she was born in 1809 in Vinger .
Here is the marriage of the parents.
Erik Eriksen
in the Norway, Select Marriages, 1660-1926
Name: Erik Eriksen
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 24 jul 1806
Marriage Place: Vinger, Hedmark, Norway
Spouse: Johanne Hansdr
FHL Film Number: 124481
Reference ID: 660
Middle of the right hand page
Link
Farm names attached to them for the marriage were for him Meelby paa Grønnerud and for her Grue-Moen paa ?? Øysøt (probably evre Øyset in the 1801 Census)
Link
Living at Our when Berte was born in 1809.
Link |
Edited by - AntonH on 27/10/2018 01:44:39 |
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volsen
Medium member
USA
104 Posts |
Posted - 27/10/2018 : 02:04:46
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quote:
Originally posted by lyndal40
Yes I think you are correct in all assumptions including the one that you have the wrong parents for her. Her parents are Erik Ericksen and Johanne Hansdatter and she was born in 1809 in Vinger .
Here is the marriage of the parents.
Erik Eriksen
in the Norway, Select Marriages, 1660-1926
Name: Erik Eriksen
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 24 jul 1806
Marriage Place: Vinger, Hedmark, Norway
Spouse: Johanne Hansdr
FHL Film Number: 124481
Reference ID: 660
Middle of the right hand page
Link
https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=FS1NorwayBaptisms&h=5492871&indiv=try&o_vc=Record:OtherRecord&rhSource=60093
Name: Berthe Eriksdatter
[Berthe Eriksen]
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 18 jun 1809
Baptism Place: Vinger, Hedmark, Norway
Father: Erik Eriksen
Mother: Johanne Hansdr
FHL Film Number: 124481
Reference ID: 2696
This one? Even though father's last name and her birth date is different? It wouldn't be more likely that death date is wrong?
Anne was born 1845 and siblings were born after 1841
Ole Arnesen Malmerlien
1842–1869
Erik Arnesen
1843–1844
Anne Arnesdatter
1845–Deceased
Johanne Arnesdatter Malmerlien
1847–1865
Hans Arnesen Malmerlien
1849–1886
Berthea Arnesdatter
1852–Deceased
Their births fit in with the 1841 marriage date. I'm still kinda confused. |
volsen |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9216 Posts |
Posted - 27/10/2018 : 02:20:18
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Usually I would agree that the likely hood is that the death date is a less accurate predictor of birth date but in this case where we are grasping at straws I lean toward putting all the information together. When I do I would conclude that all the information indicates to me that parents of Berthe Eriksdatter married to Arne Olsen are Erik Eriksen and Johanne Hansdatter and she was born in 1809. Now it would be nice to have some other proof of that conclusion, I agree.
Your list of children is another supporting clue. A weak one usually but the second boy was named Erik and the second girl was named Johanne. The names of the parents that I would assign to Berthe born 1809. |
Edited by - AntonH on 27/10/2018 02:22:58 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9216 Posts |
Posted - 27/10/2018 : 02:48:13
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An earlier son that I missed is Embreth born in 1806. At that time Erik Eriksen has the farm name of Øvre Øysæt
Link
Right hand page
Link |
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volsen
Medium member
USA
104 Posts |
Posted - 27/10/2018 : 05:19:10
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quote:
Originally posted by lyndal40
An earlier son that I missed is Embreth born in 1806. At that time Erik Eriksen has the farm name of Øvre Øysæt
Link
Right hand page
Link
That's true thank you so much.
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volsen |
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johannes olsen from norway, in Montana
