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DaveMartinson
Starting member
United Kingdom
5 Posts |
 Posted - 24/07/2013 : 18:19:42
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I believe that my great-grandfather Carl Gustaf Martinsson was the ship's carpenter aboard the Norwegian barque Anne Elizabeth which was wrecked off the coast of Falmouth, Cornwall, UK on 26th November 1895. He joined the ship when it set sail from Cardiff on 19th November on its return journey to Norway.
In order to prove this, I am trying to find him named at the ship's carpenter on the Anne Elizabeth or possibly on other Norwegian ships.
Can anyone let me know how I might search Norwegian crew lists?
I presume that the Anne Elizabeth's captain Severin Simensen who did not die, though 5 of the crew of 9 were drowned, would have sent a report detailing who survived and who died etc? |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 24/07/2013 : 18:58:42
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Captain Severin Simensen was shipmaster on Atlas of Sarpsborg, Norway in 1900 and lived in Garston England link
No name of the shipping company.
Kåre |
Edited by - Kåarto on 24/07/2013 18:59:11 |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 24/07/2013 : 19:30:12
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Carl Gustaf Martinsen is not mentioned among the four that were saved, link
Kåre |
Edited by - Kåarto on 24/07/2013 19:30:45 |
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DaveMartinson
Starting member
United Kingdom
5 Posts |
Posted - 31/08/2013 : 17:49:56
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Thank you 'Kaarto'.
That is correct. 4 sailors survived, (captain Severin Simensen, mate Hans Gulliksen, Hans Arnesen and a seaman named Hansen); 5 sailors drowned. The bodies of 4 of the drowned were soon recovered (Carlson, Abrahansen, Anderson and Fredrekson), and they were buried locally in Cornwall in St Keverne. Full details can be found in British death records. But the body of the 5th drowned seaman was not initially found. A few weeks later in a 'local' newspaper "The Cornishman" dated Thursday 26 December 1895, the following article has been discovered...
The body of the missing ship's carpenter from the wreck of the barque Anne Elizabeth ashore at the Lowlands, was washed ashore at Coverack on Wednesday [18th December?] and was interred at St Keverne on Thursday.
In the official December 1895 death records, "Male Hansen" is the name given to this 5th body. But Hansen was rescued, and if he did subsequently die, it would not have been from drowning and his body washed ashore.
It is also recorded that one of the 9 crew 'shipped' at Cardiff. My great grandfather Carl Gustaf Martinsson lived in Cardiff, is listed as a ship's carpenter/merchant service on his son's birth certificate (my grandfather), and is known to have been in Cardiff at the time the Anne Elizabeth set sail for Norway on 19th November 1895. He is also known to have died between October 1895 and February 1896. So much circumstantial evidence exists, no facts to disprove my theory, but no definite proof. The full crew list of the Anne Elizabeth as it left Cardiif should include his name, but the list may not exist because the ship was wrecked.........though captain Simensen did survive. I have a copy of the Board of Trade Enquiry into the disaster, dated 30th November 1895 signed by Simensen. Carl Gustaf Martinsson would have sailed in and out of Cardiff for several years during the early 1890's. I can only think that there is a crew list somewhere that includes the name Carl Gustaf Martinsson which will lead to discovering his nationality and year of birth. The 5 drowned seamen are said to be 3 Norwegians and 2 Swedes. My 'money' in on Carl Gustaf being Swedish, working on a Norwegian ship. |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 31/08/2013 : 17:58:56
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Guess you are right;
Gustaf Martinsson sounds Swedish, Gustav Martinsen in Norwegian.
Kåre |
Edited by - Kåarto on 31/08/2013 18:58:06 |
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DaveMartinson
Starting member
United Kingdom
5 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2014 : 16:57:42
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I have recently discovered that my research was fatally flawed. My great-grandmother born Hilda Minnie Webber claimed she was a widow over 2 years before her 'husband' actually died. I now know this because of an article in the "Cardiff Times and South Wales Weekly News" Saturday August 27th 1898. In the Births/Marriages/Deaths column it states:
MARTINSON.-August 6th (by cable from New Orleans, per SS Ethiope), Carl Gustaf Martinson (Martin), age 32, dearly beloved husband of Hilda Minnie Martinson. Deeply regretted and mourned (late of 35 Nesta Road, Canton, [Cardiff]).
Carl Gustaf Martrinson was working aboard the SS Ethiope travelling from Veracruz, Mexico to New Orleans at the time he died. He contracted typhoid/pneumonia and was admitted to Touro Infirmary in New Orleans but died on 5th August. For some reason he had anglicised his name to Charles Martin. His death is recorded in the UK Marine (deaths) Register , and he is described as Norwegian, aged 35 and born in Christiania, (Oslo?) Norway. The SS Ethiope Crew Agreement indicated his previous ship was called the HAREWOOD, and on this ship he is (correctly) named C Martinsen, and also the same name on another previous ship the Lizzie Westoll. He was the ship's carpenter on all 3 ships (also described as ships carpenter/merchant service on his 3 childrens' birth certificates. His signature (C Martinsen) appears in Harewood and Lizzie Westoll crew agreements.
So now I need to discover his exact birth details.......birth date and/or baptised date and address/location, details of any family (father, mother, siblings). This is proving very difficult to accomplish. |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9216 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2014 : 03:37:47
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A diificult task indeed. There is a Family Tree on Ancestry.com that appears to contain your Carl Gustav Martinsson. It belongs to a
lynnrobertsball
Wake Forest, North Carolina
Kevin and Lynn Ball
Here is the information given
Carl Gustav Martinsson
Birth Abt 1866 in Akershus, Norway
Death 1898 in Died at sea
married to
Hilda Minnie Webber
Birth 23 MAY 1871 in Buckland Brewer, Devon, England
Death 3 Sep 1913 in 53 Severn Road, Cardiff, Wales
Do you have any information that would lead you to beleive that the information on Carl's birth is accurate. |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9216 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2014 : 03:41:56
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Here are two baptism records that fit the above birth information.
Norway, Select Baptisms, 1634-1927 about Carl Magnus Gustav Martiniusen
Name: Carl Magnus Gustav Martiniusen
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 16 feb 1865
Baptism Date: 17 apr 1865
Baptism Place: Trefoldighet Menighet, Oslo, Akershus, Norway
Father: Gustav Martinius Gaplen
Mother: Karine Johannesdr
FHL Film Number: 255760
Reference ID: 2:V6HW2W
Norway, Select Baptisms, 1634-1927 about Carl Gustav Martinusen
Name: Carl Gustav Martinusen
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 31 jul 1866
Baptism Date: 16 des 1866 (16 Dec 1866)
Baptism Place: Domkirken, Oslo, Akershus, Norway
Father: Martinius Hansen
Mother: Dorthea Christens.
FHL Film Number: 255750
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9216 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2014 : 03:47:51
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A second Family Tree has a slightly different birth year but the same location.
Carl Gustav Martinsson
Birth ABT 1869 in Akershus, Oslo, Norway
Death 1900 in At Sea
My search on Ancestry.com for Carl Martin* covered the years from 1861 to 1871, expanding it to cover up to 1874 did not turn up any new candidates. |
Edited by - AntonH on 10/06/2014 03:52:13 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9216 Posts |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9216 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2014 : 04:16:33
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Searching Ancestry.com in a different manner, ie by Carl Gustav Matin* born 1866 +/- 5 turns up only one candidate who was turned up earlier.
Norway, Select Baptisms, 1634-1927 about Carl Gustav Martinusen
Name: Carl Gustav Martinusen
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 31 jul 1866
Baptism Date: 16 des 1866 (16 Dec 1866)
Baptism Place: Domkirken, Oslo, Akershus, Norway
Father: Martinius Hansen
Mother: Dorthea Christens.
FHL Film Number: 255750 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
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DaveMartinson
Starting member
United Kingdom
5 Posts |
Posted - 13/06/2014 : 11:17:22
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Now that I have discovered my great-grandfather's death details in the British Marine Register, (deaths at sea), I find he was 35 on 5th August 1898. I have come to the following very recent conclusions when I combine his death details with his previous ships' crew agreements (ships Harewood and Lizzie Westoll) prior to his final journey on the SS Ethiope.
He consistently signs his name as C Martinsen from Christiania, Norway. Obviously he could have a middle name like many people do, but does not include it (Gustaf?) in his signature as would be expected.
For the voyage between October 6th 1897 and 13th January 1898, Carl Martinsen changed his age from 34 to 35 in his crew agreement, suggesting that his birthday falls between October and January.
I have just realised that the Lizzie Westoll crew agreement I have indicates he was 33 on 11/11/1896 and remains 33 on 10/02/1897. He has NOT had a birthday during this period.
Therefore, If you combine the above 2 statements, and they are both accurate and true......................his birthday should be between 6th October and 11th November, being was born in 1862.
I am currently looking into 1865 and 1875 Norway censuses to try and identify him. This is not as simple a task as you might imagine.There seems to be (?) one possible candidate, but this person's DoB is approx 10 months too early alas! January 8th 1862.
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 13/06/2014 : 16:40:03
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Was your "possible" in the 1865 census one of these:
Gardnr Gate Personnr. Førenamn Etternamn Fam. stilling Yrke Sivilstand Alder Kjønn Fødestad
12796 21 Fjerdingens Gade 8 Charl Marinius Martins. Søn 4 m Christiania
39181 19 Nordbygaden 27 Karl Martinius. for Betaling af Kassen ug 2 m Christiania
42522 11 Oslo Gade 5 Karl August Martins. Søn ug 4 m Kristiania
48101 18 Aasengaden 9 Carl Oscar Martins.* Søn ug 2 m Aker Sagene |
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DaveMartinson
Starting member
United Kingdom
5 Posts |
Posted - 15/06/2014 : 15:25:15
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YES indeed, the one below seems to be the most likely candidate we believe, born in 1862 in Christiania, but I am told this person was born in JANUARY 1862, so 36 years old when he died on 5th August 1898 not 35 as found on his death certificate. He was definitely born in Christiania as found in more than one crew agreement.
42522 11 Oslo Gade 5 Karl August Martins. Søn ug 4 m Kristiania
His details were Karl August Martinsen, father Martin Petersen b 1832 Westby Prgj. Mother was Kristine Andreasdatter b 1832. There are also two brothers Christian Jorgen and Hans Peter and one sister Karoline Mathilde. It is possible that Christian married a lady from Swansea, Wales, UK.
In 1875, we believe that the same person (Karl August Martinsen) is "in care" and no longer with his family. |
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Crew Lists
