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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
 Posted - 20/12/2020 : 18:21:45
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quote:
Originally posted by StevenDopp
I have three themes which I am trying to determine. First, where did Claus live in Norway? The family history book states that he was born and lived on the Brandvik farm in Bjugn. However, he clearly was living with his mother in 1865 in the nearby Mollergaard farm. In fact, he even used the name Mollergard in the Norway police department emigration log book. Also, he was baptized in Orland. While this doesn't preclude him living on the Brandvik farm, I have no evidence he did so, other than the family history book, which was put together by Claus' grandchildren. The family history book has not proved to be completely accurate. Is there something else that can be checked to see if he ever lived on the Brandvik farm?
I am trying to find out more about Claus' first wite, Jonetta Sohn. Mostly, there isn't much available. The 1865 Norway census indicates she was born in Selbo and in 1865 was living with her parents on the Sonen farm. However, I can't find either one on a map. Any ideas?
Third, I am trying to learn more about Claus' second wife, Beret Moen. I thought she was living on a neighboring farm by at least 1880. However, that clearly was not the case, based on the information you two have provided. I suspect her passage was paid for by Claus as the emigration record shows her passage was paid by someone in the United States. I wonder if she was a "mail order bride"? Since Claus' brother Jakob married Olina Moen, Beret's cousin, I wonder if Beret wrote favorable things to Olina which caused her to travel to North Dakota specifically to marry Jakob? What a crazy way to find a spouse!
There is method to the madness. If you and your relatives marry relatives from another family, they become "known" quantities instead of just a roll of dice. Plus families tend to enforce each other to keep the family together and safe. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 20/12/2020 : 19:05:12
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The marriage of Claus and Jonette was officiated by a minister Joh. Ylvisaker. What was his church in 1877? The marriage record looks like Lands.
He was pastor at Zumbrota Minnesota from 1877-1879:
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=nnc1.cr60969520&view=1up&seq=169&q1=johannes%20ylvisaker
Of the three ELCA congregations listed at Zumbrota in the Ancestry database: Lands, Stordahl, and United Lutheran, it appears that pastoral acts are not available for the years (1877-1879) which might have had more detail about Jonette in the marriage record. |
Edited by - jkmarler on 20/12/2020 19:45:17 |
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StevenDopp
Junior member
USA
34 Posts |
Posted - 20/12/2020 : 22:41:48
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Thanks for the response! I think we are approaching the end of what can be found about my ancestors. I really don't want to try to go back farther in time than Caren and Johanna's parents.
quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
quote:
Originally posted by StevenDopp
Are you saying that Berit was Bridt Iverdatter in the 1875 census? I have difficulty with the names as I do not understand how they change from one generation to the next. Also, that Bridt is the same name as Beret. I guess they are close and it seems as through the spelling of Norwegian names varied quite a bit at that time. If this is Beret, then of course, my next question will be where the farm is located on a map. I will see if I can locate the farm on a map.
I have tried but I cannot locate the farm on a map.
quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
Very probable that Oline and Beret are related, however, just not sisters.
Here is Iver Iversen in the 1875 census:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01052085002654
Here Beret is in the 1875 census head milkmaid?
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01052085002200
I'm saying that her original name was Bridt /Brithe or something like that. In most of the censuses over here her name is Betsy or Bunt or some thing with a B.
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Edited by - StevenDopp on 20/12/2020 22:50:51 |
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ToreL
Advanced member
Norway
818 Posts |
Posted - 20/12/2020 : 22:43:11
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According to the headstone(repeated here), Ole Pedersen was born on June 12th 1834. Here are matching baptism (#56) and confirmation (#7) records. The father's name Peder Andersen is clearly readable in the latter, and matches the 1861 marriage entry (#17). Also the farm name Gulset is readable. Selbu bygdebook is available online for all users, but I didn't spot any matching Ole or Peder.
Still, this looks like his father Peder Andersen (and possibly his mother, but note the correction in the baptism entry) in 1865. |
Edited by - ToreL on 20/12/2020 22:55:02 |
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StevenDopp
Junior member
USA
34 Posts |
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StevenDopp
Junior member
USA
34 Posts |
Posted - 20/12/2020 : 22:59:34
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Other than identifying the farm where Beret Molen lived on a map, we may have come to the limits of what can reasonably be found about my Norwegian ancestry. If you can place her farm on a map, that would be wonderful. This is what one of you posted regarding its name/location: In 1875 she was working as a servant and head milkmaid at the 0114 Rudi, Hovdeholen, Syverslien and Lille-Rudi farm in Dovre parish, Oppland County, Norway.
Here is my guess. https://www.google.com/maps/place/Rudi+Gard/@61.19102,7.9912057,7.75z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x466adc7d538ee727:0xfbb6827dae68f27f!8m2!3d61.575387!4d9.908401?hl=en
I doubt it is the correct location, however.
Would any of you like a copy of my report when I have finished it? |
Edited by - StevenDopp on 20/12/2020 23:07:28 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 21/12/2020 : 00:59:48
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quote:
Originally posted by StevenDopp
I have three themes which I am trying to determine. First, where did Claus live in Norway? The family history book states that he was born and lived on the Brandvik farm in Bjugn. However, he clearly was living with his mother in 1865 in the nearby Mollergaard farm. In fact, he even used the name Mollergard in the Norway police department emigration log book. Also, he was baptized in Orland. While this doesn't preclude him living on the Brandvik farm, I have no evidence he did so, other than the family history book, which was put together by Claus' grandchildren. The family history book has not proved to be completely accurate. Is there something else that can be checked to see if he ever lived on the Brandvik farm?
There are two other records to search for in Norway that might give an address, a possible vaccination record and his confirmation record. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 21/12/2020 : 01:04:04
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quote:
[i]
Would any of you like a copy of my report when I have finished it?
Thanks for the thought, but I'm trying to downsize. You might consider donating a copy to the Red River Valley Genealogical Society; PO Box 9284; Fargo ND 58106 since they lived 10-20 miles away. |
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ToreL
Advanced member
Norway
818 Posts |
Posted - 21/12/2020 : 21:00:16
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Back to the brothers Iver and Jon Iversen at Morken in Dovre. Here you see Morken on a map. If you zoom out, you will see, North across the river, Rudi where Brit lived and was working in 1875.
I also looked in Bygdabok for Dovre by Gunnar Kaas and Arnfinn Engen. A short resume: Morken was sometimes called Moen. For a while it was divided in two farms; Lower or North Morken and Upper or South Morken. The first known people at the farm where Morten and Eli, who probably arrived there in the 1770s, and who lived here with their son Iver in 1801.
People:
Morten Eriksson (1745-1811) and Eli Iversdotter (1742 - ?) had the children
- Erik (1778-1792)
- Kari (1781 - ?)
- Iver (1788 - 1869)
This Iver married Brit Iversdotter (1790-1855), and they had the children
- Martin (1816 - ?)
- Iver (1819 - ca. 1886)
- Jon (1822 - 1900)
- Simen (1824 - after 1900)
- Kari (1833 - ?)
Iver and Jon above are those we have looked at previously:
Iver married Marit Olsdotter (1825 - ?), and they had the children
- Ola (1850 - ?)
- Marit (1853 - 1925)
- Brit (1856 - ) To Dakota in 1882
- Iver (1859 - )
- Hans (1862 -)
- Ola (1865 - ) To Fargo, Dakota in 1886. His mother was widowed at the time, and came with him.
Jon Iverson had, as a bachelor, with Ragnhild Siversdotter, the son
- Peder (1854-1879)
Jon Iverson married Anne Olsdotter (1828-1895), and they had the children
- Brit (1855 - ?) To Westby, Wisconsin 1892
- Marit (1859 - )
- Iver (1862 - ) To New York 1883
- Oline(1866 - ) To New York 1886
The wives of Iver and Jon Iverson, Marit and Anne Olsdotter, were sisters, so their children were double cousins.
Send me a PM with an email address if you would like more detailed info, and I can email you something.
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Edited by - ToreL on 21/12/2020 21:11:28 |
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StevenDopp
Junior member
USA
34 Posts |
Posted - 22/12/2020 : 01:13:08
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Yes. I will do that.
quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
quote:
[i]
Would any of you like a copy of my report when I have finished it?
Thanks for the thought, but I'm trying to downsize. You might consider donating a copy to the Red River Valley Genealogical Society; PO Box 9284; Fargo ND 58106 since they lived 10-20 miles away.
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StevenDopp
Junior member
USA
34 Posts |
Posted - 28/12/2020 : 15:37:24
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I am slowly making my way through all of the information provided by you and the other genealogists. I think the information you have found about Johan and Caren is correct. From my perspective, it is amazing that Johan and Karen had three children outside of marriage. Was this normal in Norway at this time? Were Johan and Karen treated negatively by other people on their farms, in their community, etc? Were such illegitimate children accepted by their farms/community?
Johan strikes me as quite the Romeo. Not only did he have three children outside of marriage, he married Ane Olsdatter and I think ended up owning the Brandvik farm. At least, I know for certain that their oldest son, Jens, owned the farm.
quote:
Originally posted by ToreL
In the 1852 baptism for Klaus, there is a note saying that this is the third child out of wedlock for both parents.
The father's two previous children must be these two born in 1844 and 1846, since the father in both cases is given as Johan Olsen living at Møllergård.
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/view/255/pd00000004626446
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/view/255/pd00000004627549
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ToreL
Advanced member
Norway
818 Posts |
Posted - 28/12/2020 : 19:08:46
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Someone with a longer experience than me might give you a more informed answer, but here goes: I have seen similar cases a number of times, but they are exceptions. On the other hand, it was not that uncommon for a couple to have a child or two before they married. Single mothers would be stigmatized, and considerably more than the fathers.
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StevenDopp
Junior member
USA
34 Posts |
Posted - 28/12/2020 : 20:06:26
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| Thanks ToreL. You would know more about life in Norway in the 19th century than I would. I will assume that Caren was not so well received by the other people who lived in Bjugn, at least not so well received by the other women. Perhaps this is a question the Mollergaard museum could answer. I sent them an email but they have not responded. If they have anything on the ball, They should send me an acknowledgement, an offer to visit their museum, as well as a request to become a member (I used to work in tourism promotion. That is what would happen here in the U.S., at least when I was in charge of my little part of it.).. |
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Name connection
