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melvankomen
Starting member
USA
23 Posts |
 Posted - 21/03/2019 : 02:04:10
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Hello,
I'm cleaning up my grandmother's records and do not have birth records for
Josephine Olsen, 8 February 1862
Emma Ovidia Olsen, 1869
both daughters of Jens Olsen and Ellene Henriksdr.
The family is found in the Nes Parish in Hedemark, but are in Christiania/Oslo by the 1865 and 1875 Census. The census says Emma was born in Christiania.
Ironically, Josephine is the one with the best records once they get to the US!
Here's my OP: http://www.norwayheritage.com/snitz/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6932
I'm not having any luck, but you folks seem to have special powers. |
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melvankomen
Starting member
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - 21/03/2019 : 02:10:33
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| And truly -- If I can ever help anyone by finding a book or a film at the Family History Library in Salt Lake City, I would love to repay your kindness. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 21/03/2019 : 17:12:34
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| In the 1875 link posted in one of your prior topics, Emma Ovidea is mentioned as "Mormon", so depending on when she/ or her parents converted, her baptism might be in the dissenter's registers. |
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melvankomen
Starting member
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - 21/03/2019 : 23:57:39
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The parents Jens Olsen and Eline Henriksdr joined the Mormon church June 1861, so before those two daughters were born. That is terrific insight!
How would I look in the dissenter's register? Is there a way for a non-Norwegian speaking person to navigate those? |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 22/03/2019 : 01:02:39
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| When you are on the search page to find a parish in Oslo in the church books base, all the separate registers of the dissenter populations are at the end of the list. Didn't see one labelled as Mormon. However, in the 1865 census transcription you posted in your other topic they are listed as in Gamle Aker congregation so would try there first. |
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melvankomen
Starting member
USA
23 Posts |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 22/03/2019 : 03:46:47
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So only the Methodist dissenter registers show up for Oslo, weird. Okay reset the page. Then put in Oslo as the county, go to the last page. That is where all the seperate dissenter pages are. There's Methodist, Christ Scientist, Catholic (katholik), etc. But there doesn't appear to be a seperate register for LDS which is what I mentioned in the previous post.
So you want to look at each parish and see if they have any dissenter pages. That would be a manual search just look at one that has an appropriate date is one way to do this. Some of the dissenter entries have their own pages in the two digit codes when you are looking at that list of church names.
I did look for such designated records and found only dd (dissenter deaths), no fd (dissenter births), vd (dissenter marriages) in the Gamle Aker entries and they were for dates which are much beyond when your family were there.
So it's possible that you may have to go through Gamle Aker's baptisms line by line to find. It's possible that any dissenter baptisms could be interspersed in the regular old Lutheran ones.
You do have a some birth date information for Emma Ovidia, I think I remember 9 Dec 1869. Someone born that late in the year might not get recorded until in the following year. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 22/03/2019 : 12:35:31
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Since you are able to use the Salt Lake library you might want to look at this.
Here is a cut and paste of the LDS Records of members listing in the familysearch catalog:
Record of members, 1850-1950
Authors: Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Oslo Branch (Oslo) (Main Author)
Format: Manuscript/Manuscript on Film
Language: Norwegian English
Notes
The Record of members includes baptisms, confirmations, blessings of children, priesthood ordinations, minutes of meetings, emigrations, deaths, excommunications, and other miscellaneous information.
1853-1863 Family History Library International Film 123202 Item 2 8245295
This item is available on microfilm at this family history center.
1853-1867 Family History Library International Film 123202 Item 3 8245295
This item is available on microfilm at this family history center.
1853-1900 (indexed)Family History Library International Film 123202 Item 4 8245295
This item is available on microfilm at this family history center.
1853-1907 (copy)Family History Library International Film 123202 Item 5 8245295
This item is available on microfilm at this family history center.
1853-1907 Family History Library International Film 123202 Item 6 8245295
This item is available on microfilm at this family history center.
1858-1865 1872-1875 (emigrated into branch) Family History Library International Film
123202 Item 9 8245295
This item is available on microfilm at this family history center.
1872-1883 Family History Library International Film 123202 Item 10 8245295
This item is available on microfilm at this family history center.
1882-1907 Family History Library International Film 123202 Item 11 8245295
This item is available on microfilm at this family history center.
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Edited by - jkmarler on 22/03/2019 12:42:35 |
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Hopkins
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3351 Posts |
Posted - 22/03/2019 : 13:29:07
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On that microfilm you'd be looking for the 'blessings of children'. The purpose of the practice is twofold: to give a baby an official name and to provide an opportunity to give a blessing for the child's spiritual and physical welfare.
Mormons don't baptism infants but wait until a child is at least 8 years old. |
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melvankomen
Starting member
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - 22/03/2019 : 16:38:29
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I looked at that very film on Monday! :) I found adult baptism information for that family, along with the 8-year-old baptism of Emma. I did not see any blessings of children, but was not specifically looking. I will go back and look again!
Other valuable info for me was the column on who emigrated out of the branch. That helped my pinpoint exact dates for when the family headed to the USA and Utah -- that has been one big piece to try and untangle. And, it was interesting to see who in the family left the branch for other reasons. The fellow at the library explained that 'excommunication' was a lot looser back in those days and quite often happened for reasons that would seem trivial today.
I need to go look at the film again, anyway. I found a record in the Sons of Utah Pioneers Companies Index for an Anne Nielsdr age 67 in 1860. That is the right age and name for the mother of Eline Henriksdr married to Ole Jensen. It's quite an astounding find and lines up with a story I thought had been mangled over the 140+ years. The family story was that Eline and Ole's daughters Agnete and Josephine came to Utah earlier (1875) than their parents (1882) with the idea they would stay with their grandmother. However, she had died by the time they got here and they had to find work/lodging with other families. That piece checks out in the 1880 census because I can find both of them within a few miles of each other as 'servants.' But I could never find record of the grandmother and that seemed farfetched for a woman of that age to be traveling so far from home. But it looks like perhaps it was true all along! I want to look back in the branch records and find her Mormon baptism and see if there is a notation on if/when she emigrated. If it's true, I am impressed at her fortitude! I also want to look at the original company registers and see if there is a clue of who she might have been traveling with. Perhaps she remarried and we never knew that? Unfortunately the records for the part of Utah they settled are pretty sparse until the late 1800s.
I also will shore up my courage and do as jmarkler suggests and go through the Gamle Aker's baptisms the old-fashioned way, line by line, and see what I find.
Thanks so much. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 22/03/2019 : 18:32:34
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Having learned today that LD Saints don't baptize infants, and also that there is a ceremony at age 8, if you don't find some mention about Emma in 1869-1870 state records, it might be that they would have done that when she was 8 instead. Generally, dissenters were also required to make their records with the state church, but with such a difference in belief / practice maybe they got a bye?
There is also a group of microfilm concerning other smaller LDS congregation in eastern Norway which might offer something on Oveda or Ovidia Jensina. It looks as though, from that paper, her birthplace might be Ourskog? rather than Christiania proper.
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melvankomen
Starting member
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - 22/03/2019 : 19:10:41
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You lost me on the Ourskog... which paper? Where could I see that?
And it could also be that the family simply didn't report her birth. I found this on the Family Search wiki: “There was no separation of church and state in Norway before 21 May 2012. Prior to this date church and state were joined. There was not a legally recognized dissenter church in Norway until 1845. The law simply did not allow anyone to dissent from the Lutheran Church. After dissenter churches were accepted in 1845, these congregations still had to report births and deaths to the local parish priest of the Lutheran Church within one month of these events. Sometimes we find that children of dissenters were not recorded as the law stated. Often a pastor would make this a very difficult visit, trying to persuade or even threaten people to "come back" to the Lutheran Church. If dissenters lived in a city where they could avoid being known by the church personnel, they sometimes did not comply with this law.”
If they were in/near Oslo, maybe it was easier to not officially report the birth. |
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last 2! need birth records
