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 duplicate names, help needed
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melvankomen
Starting member

USA
23 Posts

Posted - 15/03/2019 :  02:53:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello, you wizards of Norwegian ancestry

I am working on a family from the Hedmark area. The 1865 Norway Census lists the family this way:
http://www.rhd.uit.no/folketellinger/ftliste_e.aspx?ft=1865&knr=0301&kenr=2225a&bnr=2157&lnr=000

Jens Olsen, father, stone mason, 1821
Elline Henriksdatter, wife, 1828
Hedevig Jensdatter, daughter, factory worker, 1848
Ole Jensen, son, 1853
Ludvig Jensen, son, 1856
Agnete Jensdatter, daughter, 1859
Josephine Jensdatter, daughter, 1862
Emilie Jensdatter, daughter, 1865
(also 2 boarders: Mathea Berntsen and Hanna Gronberg)

The family emigrated to Utah, USA in bits and pieces as Mormon converts. Ole died and I can find a Norwegian marriage record for Ludvig so he did not leave Norway, as far as I can tell. I can find US records for Jens, Elline, Hedevig, Agnete and Josephine.

Handwritten family records do not list Emilie born 1865. However, there is a child named Oveda Jens Seva or Emma Ovedel listed in these handwritten records. In them, she is born in Ephraim, Sanpete County, Utah, USA in 1869, with a note that she died about 1882. Those dates work with the rough idea of when I believe they were in Utah.

My question is in several parts, but I wonder about the name. It seems unusual compared to other names in this family. And I also wonder if it was common to 're-use' a name of a deceased child in Norwegian families. In my husband's Dutch family this was done all the time. Can anyone offer any insight?

Thanks so much.

Kċarto
Norway Heritage Veteran

Norway
5782 Posts

Posted - 15/03/2019 :  10:36:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
In 1865 the Family lived in Oslo, all born in Hedmark County

Edited by - Kċarto on 15/03/2019 10:37:06
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran

USA
6249 Posts

Posted - 15/03/2019 :  12:32:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by melvankomen

Hello, you wizards of Norwegian ancestry


My question is in several parts, but I wonder about the name. It seems unusual compared to other names in this family. And I also wonder if it was common to 're-use' a name of a deceased child in Norwegian families. In my husband's Dutch family this was done all the time. Can anyone offer any insight?

Thanks so much.



Yes it does happen that names are "re-used" amongst children if one goes deceased..I know of cases in which names are "re-used" amongst still living children.
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ToreL
Medium member

Norway
177 Posts

Posted - 15/03/2019 :  13:12:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by melvankomen
there is a child named Oveda Jens Seva or Emma Ovedel listed in these handwritten records.


Emma is a common Norwegian girls' name, while Jens is a boys' name, but I do not recognize Oveda/Ovedel or Seva as Norwegian names. Ovidia, on the other hand, was a common name in Norway in the 1800s.

If you are unsure how to read the handwritten notes, you could perhaps post some scans here and ask for opinions?
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lyndal40
Norway Heritage Veteran

USA
7039 Posts

Posted - 15/03/2019 :  15:28:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
OP's earlier post on this same family

Norway Heritage
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melvankomen
Starting member

USA
23 Posts

Posted - 15/03/2019 :  16:07:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank you, lyndal40, for referencing my previous post. The information I gathered from the help I received here was invaluable. I put this research aside because my grandmother died and she was the real impetus for my research. I was doing it in her behalf. But I came across her box of paperwork this week and would like to figure out this remaining child or children.

The only 'proof' of this child/children is the 1865 Norwegian census and a family group sheet compiled by the son (Niels) of the child listed as Agnete in my original post. Niels died in Utah 1935 at age 54 and I believe he compiled this sheet in 1921. His mother Agnete died in Utah, USA in 1940.

My immigration timeline is still sketchy. I can find the family, but the two Mormon Scandinavian Emigration indexes I have consulted conflict and are not definitive. I live near the LDS Family History Library so will go try again in a third source and with the experts on staff. I hope to go next week. (And if you ever need me to find something there, please let me know. I'd be happy to try and help.)

I can't figure out how to attach the group sheet. Please advise and I will do that.

And thank you to everyone who chimes in. What a helpful, selfless group. I really appreciate it.
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peder
Advanced member

USA
809 Posts

Posted - 15/03/2019 :  16:15:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
source : paid membership in my heritage'

Hedevig Jensdatter Unknown
Gender: Female
Birth: Apr 15 1848
Nes, Hedmark, Norway
Marriage: Spouse: Charles Brandenburg
Circa 1868
New York, New York, United States
Death: Aug 6 1921
Father: Jens Olsen Unknown
Mother: Eline Henriksdatter Unknown
Husband: Charles Brandenburg
Siblings: Ole Jensen Unknown
Ludvik Jensen Linnerud
Agnethe Jensdatter Olsen (born Linnerud)
Josephine Jensdatter (born Olsen)
Amelia Jensdatter Unknown
Emma Jensdatter Unknown
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peder
Advanced member

USA
809 Posts

Posted - 15/03/2019 :  16:18:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Emma Jensdatter Unknown
Gender: Female
Birth: 1869
Death: Circa 1882
Ephraim, Sanpete County, Utah, United States
Father: Jens Olsen Unknown
Mother: Eline Henriksdatter Unknown
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melvankomen
Starting member

USA
23 Posts

Posted - 15/03/2019 :  17:56:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Peder -- What type of records are those in My Heritage?

And how do a upload my doc so you can see it?
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lyndal40
Norway Heritage Veteran

USA
7039 Posts

Posted - 16/03/2019 :  00:25:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
how do a upload my doc so you can see it?


There are several ways, I use an app called TinyPic

Ok, first join TinyPic. You need to sign up using an email addresss.

Scan what you want to post and put it on your desktop.

Go to TinyPic and make sure you are signed in. You should be at the screen called "Upload Images & Videos". Click on "Choose File" and look for the scan you want to post. For "Tags" label it anything you want. Resize to "Message Board" and click "Upload Now". Wait for the code and enter it. Copy and Paste the stuff in the box labelled. " IMG Code for Forums and Message Boards" into Norway Heritage Forum Post Box. Click Submit Reply.

TinyPic



Edited by - lyndal40 on 16/03/2019 00:26:45
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lyndal40
Norway Heritage Veteran

USA
7039 Posts

Posted - 16/03/2019 :  00:48:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Mel, I must say your family did not leave much of a trail behind them. Finding records on the family in Utah has been a bit of a struggle. Here is one of the few records I found

Josephine Jensen
in the Utah, Death and Military Death Certificates, 1904-1961
Name: Josephine Jensen
[Josephine Olsen]
Gender: Female
Race: White
Age: 64
Birth Date: abt 1863
Birth Place: Norway
Death Date: 31 Jul 1927
Death Place: Emery, Utah, USA
Father: Jensen Olsen
Mother: Alena Olsen
Spouse: C P Jensen

Josephine was here by the 1880 Census but already working on her own.

1880

Maybe her arrival record in 1875.

Josephine Olsen
in the U.S. and Canada, Passenger and Immigration Lists Index, 1500s-1900s
Name: Josephine Olsen
Age: 11
Birth Year: abt 1864
Arrival year: 1875
Arrival Place: New York, New York
Primary Immigrant: Olsen, Josephine
Source Publication Code: 6639
Annotation: Date and place of arrival. Age, gender, occupation, residence also provided.
Source Bibliography: ANDERSON, SHAUNA C., ET AL, COMPILERS. Passport To Paradise: The Copenhagen Mormon Passenger Lists. Two volumes. West Jordan, UT: Genealogical Services.

The same source also has the arrival of her sister Agnette, age 16.

Name: Agnette Olsen
Age: 16
Birth Year: abt 1859
Arrival year: 1875
Arrival Place: New York, New York
Primary Immigrant: Olsen, Agnette
Source Publication Code: 6639

And Agnette in the 1880 Census, also on her own.

1880

Edited by - lyndal40 on 16/03/2019 03:00:09
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lyndal40
Norway Heritage Veteran

USA
7039 Posts

Posted - 16/03/2019 :  01:15:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
A possible arrival for the father Jens Olsen in 1874.Birth year is a little off of the expected 1821.

Jens Olsen
in the U.S. and Canada, Passenger and Immigration Lists Index, 1500s-1900s
Name: Jens Olsen
Age: 47
Birth Year: abt 1827
Arrival year: 1874
Arrival Place: New York, New York
Primary Immigrant: Olsen, Jens
Source Publication Code: 117.25
Annotation: Date and port of arrival.
Source Bibliography: ANDERSON, SHAUNA C., ET AL. Passport to Paradise, The Copenhagen Mormon Passenger Lists, Volume One 1872-1887. West Jordan, UT: Genealogical Services, 2000.


Not correct still in Oslo in 1875 Census.

Edited by - lyndal40 on 16/03/2019 22:21:14
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lyndal40
Norway Heritage Veteran

USA
7039 Posts

Posted - 16/03/2019 :  01:40:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This would appear to be the arrival of the young child Josephine in 1874.

Josephine Olesen
in the New York, Passenger and Crew Lists (including Castle Garden and Ellis Island), 1820-1957
Name: Josephine Olesen
Arrival Date: 14 Jul 1875
Birth Date: abt 1864
Age: 11
Gender: Female
Ethnicity/ Nationality: Swedish
Place of Origin: Sweden
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England and Queenstown, Ireland
Destination: United States of America
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Ship Name: Idaho

Sister Agnette on the same ship

Name: Agnata Olesen
Arrival Date: 14 Jul 1875
Birth Date: abt 1859
Age: 16
Gender: Female
Ethnicity/ Nationality: Swedish
Place of Origin: Sweden
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England and Queenstown, Ireland
Destination: United States of America
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Ship Name: Idaho

They seem to be traveling as a part of the family of

Name: Karen Olson
Arrival Date: 14 Jul 1875
Birth Date: abt 1831
Age: 44
Gender: Female

and a Math. Olsen also age 44.

Edited by - lyndal40 on 16/03/2019 02:17:18
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melvankomen
Starting member

USA
23 Posts

Posted - 16/03/2019 :  02:45:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi, All,

Hopefully this will work so that you can see the names on the family group sheet. These are the children to Eline Hendrichsen and Jens Olsen. It's a Google doc. Copy and paste this address into your browser:

https://tinyurl.com/OlsenGroup

It is the last two children I am interested in, especially compared to the 1865 census I cited previously. This group sheet was compiled by the son of child #4, Annetta. I believe he compiled it in 1921.

Thanks again for your help.
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lyndal40
Norway Heritage Veteran

USA
7039 Posts

Posted - 16/03/2019 :  03:03:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Worked just fine Mel. Here it is uploaded using TinyPic

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melvankomen
Starting member

USA
23 Posts

Posted - 16/03/2019 :  03:39:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi, all! Thanks for your good work! I had consulted the Passport to Paradise source at the FHL and came away with those same dates for Jens, Josephine and Agnete.

The 1874 immigration date for Jens seems likely, but does not work if Emma was born in Ephraim, Utah as the group sheet says.

I have family reported Mormon baptism dates for Annetta and Josephine in July 1874, but hope to be able to consult LDS Scandinavian records from that time period to double-check.

I also believe that I found the mother Eline with daughter Emma age 11.5 in Passport to Paradise immigrating in July 1882. If Jens left in 1874, and Emma was born in 1870-71 then that works.
'Alabano' and 'Bravo' departed Copenhagen 16 June 1882 to Hull England
ocean steamer 'Nevada' departed 21 June 1882, arrived New York 2 July 1882
party arrived by rail 10 July 1882 in Salt Lake City, Utah
register lists Eline's age as 56 and Emma's age as 11.5
pg 397 passenger 665 and 666

The group sheet place of birth for a child called Emma in 1869 is listed as Utah, but that could simply be a mistake. Especially as that child died in 1882, the same year Eline arrived.

That still leaves the daughter Emilie born 1865 in the census as a mystery. Perhaps she died and they named her sister born in 1869 with the similar name of Emma?

That also still leaves the child on the group sheet named Oveda Jens Olsen a mystery. My grandmother had a birth date of 1864 and a death date of 1865, but I cannot find where she found that information. Perhaps that is the child named Emilie born 1865 in the census? Do you have any thoughts on the likelihood on that??

I'm also interested in Peder's search MyHeritage search. I can't replicate his search that yielded Hedevig's death record that listed siblings including Amelia Jensdatter Unknown and
Emma Jensdatter Unknown

Whew! What have I missed in my thinking/searching?

Mel

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