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lyndal40
Norway Heritage Veteran

USA
6487 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2018 :  03:29:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Inger Amundsdatter married her second? husband Chistian Svendsen April 30, 1841.

#22

Edited by - lyndal40 on 04/06/2018 03:42:53
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lyndal40
Norway Heritage Veteran

USA
6487 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2018 :  03:32:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Here is his birth record. Correct?
SAO, Tune prestekontor Kirkebøker, F/Fa/L0007: Parish register (official) no. 7, 1831-1837, p. 740-741
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20061023010687


Yes number 35

Was he born out of wedlock and that is why she is not listed as a widow on her marriage to Svendsen and also why she comes first on the baptism record for Mathias?

Edited by - lyndal40 on 04/06/2018 03:45:53
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brejohns
Medium member

USA
152 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2018 :  18:30:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I see what you mean. I'm not sure if Mathais' birth record indicates he was born out of wedlock. I thought they usually put "ung" or something similar in the record if they were born out of wedlock. I will ask our Norwegian relative and see what he says. I too was wondering what happened to the father Anders Ejlertsen.
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran

USA
5927 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2018 :  21:35:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by brejohns

I see what you mean. I'm not sure if Mathais' birth record indicates he was born out of wedlock. I thought they usually put "ung" or something similar in the record if they were born out of wedlock. I will ask our Norwegian relative and see what he says. I too was wondering what happened to the father Anders Ejlertsen.



In the particular case of Mathis Andreasen # 35 there are 3 entries that show he is illegitimate.

1. There is a column fourth in from left in which the answer uægte or ægte is given. Mathis' says "ligesaa" which is a form of ditto meaning like the one above his, so #34 is uægte, so # 35 is uægte

2. The marital condition of the parents. Inger is listed as pige meaning unmarried female and Anders is listed as ungkarl or bachelor meaning unmarried male.

3. The birth was reported by farmer Ole Mathisen. Legitmate births virtually never are "reported."
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brejohns
Medium member

USA
152 Posts

Posted - 05/06/2018 :  03:37:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank you jkmarler for this information. You're very good at reading this handwriting. I struggle to just make out the names! Our Norwegian relative was not able to decipher the column on the right with the comments, but he too thought it odd that Inger was listed as pige meaning unmarried girl. He did explain the uaegte (sorry I don't have a Norwegian keyboard for some of the special symbols/letters) word as well.

I have one more question. I have conflicting records about the birth year for Mathias' daughter Emma Anderson. I'm not sure which record is more accurate. The Minnesota Births and Christenings 1840-1980 database listed a daughter born to Mathias Anderson and Betsey Ingrebreson in Medford, Steele County MN with a birth date of 7 December 1875. However, the US 1900 Federal Census gives her the birth date of December 1876 and the handwritten record plainly shows 1876. The 1910 Federal Census listed her birth date as 1877 as well as the 1920 census. The ND 1925 census gives her a birth year of 1876 and her son and husbands are correctly listed. Finally in the 1930 Federal Census ( a few months before she died) her birth year is listed as 1878. Would the Minnesota Births and Christenings be more accurate than the censuses? It would seem so.
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brejohns
Medium member

USA
152 Posts

Posted - 05/06/2018 :  03:48:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sorry I forgot to mention that the ND Death Index listed Emma Anderson as Mrs. Henry Hanson with a birth date of 1 September 1872 and her death date as 12 August 1930. They got the death date correct - but birth date is way off. The family never knew when she was born so they hadn't even gotten a headstone. This is how my project started as the grandchildren wanted to buy a headstone if I could find her birth date.
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran

USA
5927 Posts

Posted - 05/06/2018 :  04:27:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by brejohns

Thank you jkmarler for this information. You're very good at reading this handwriting. I struggle to just make out the names! Our Norwegian relative was not able to decipher the column on the right with the comments, but he too thought it odd that Inger was listed as pige meaning unmarried girl. He did explain the uaegte (sorry I don't have a Norwegian keyboard for some of the special symbols/letters) word as well.

I have one more question. I have conflicting records about the birth year for Mathias' daughter Emma Anderson. I'm not sure which record is more accurate. The Minnesota Births and Christenings 1840-1980 database listed a daughter born to Mathias Anderson and Betsey Ingrebreson in Medford, Steele County MN with a birth date of 7 December 1875. However, the US 1900 Federal Census gives her the birth date of December 1876 and the handwritten record plainly shows 1876. The 1910 Federal Census listed her birth date as 1877 as well as the 1920 census. The ND 1925 census gives her a birth year of 1876 and her son and husbands are correctly listed. Finally in the 1930 Federal Census ( a few months before she died) her birth year is listed as 1878. Would the Minnesota Births and Christenings be more accurate than the censuses? It would seem so.



The handwriting on Mathis' baptism is especially weird.

Generally, the rules of evidence are such that the information collected for the exact purpose of the record is, and a record created closer to the actual event date is considered more likely accurate than something produced at the end of the life or from someone's memory.

A database of information is one more step from the original probably handwritten record because someone has read the record in person or on film and made an interpretation and then typed it in. That is just another layer of possible error. Going to the original record is preferred.
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran

USA
5927 Posts

Posted - 05/06/2018 :  04:36:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by brejohns

Sorry I forgot to mention that the ND Death Index listed Emma Anderson as Mrs. Henry Hanson with a birth date of 1 September 1872 and her death date as 12 August 1930. They got the death date correct - but birth date is way off. The family never knew when she was born so they hadn't even gotten a headstone. This is how my project started as the grandchildren wanted to buy a headstone if I could find her birth date.



Well, they could put up a stone with just the death date and some other appropriate saying.

But how do you know that that Mathias Anderson and Betsy Engebretson are the correct parents? There are probably two kinds of organizational birth records, birth / baptism record created by a church and the civil birth certificate or the birth register by county or township government. Another kind of source would be a Bible record (I mean who would put a lie next to the word of God?).
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brejohns
Medium member

USA
152 Posts

Posted - 06/06/2018 :  17:31:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We do know that Mathias Anderson and Betsy Engebretson had 2 children. Martin J. Anderson born 10 September 1873 and Emma born a few years later. Both are recorded in the Dunseith History Book 1882 and the living family members know these facts. I agree it would have been nice to have a family bible. The children are noted in several censuses and other documents but their ages always varied. I did find a birth date for an Anderson female born 7 December 1875 in Steele County which I believe to be Emma. This was in the browsable records that are not searchable. You brought that to my attention earlier. It matches the birth information listed for Mathias Anderson at https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FDC5-T4K?print=true.

I just heard from the UND Library and Mike Swanson confirmed our information on the birth of Mathias Anderson. He checked the Minge farm in Tune but didn't find him, however he did find Mathias and Bertha with Emilie in 1865 helping his father Christen Svendsen on the Minge farm. He then said that Mathias correct birth date was March 1837 and his parents were unwed. He didn't know why the census had incorrect ages but he agreed with all of our findings. I'm very happy we all agree on the birth record for Mathias.

I agree the family could have put up a stone for Emma earlier with her death date, but I believe the family had hard times then and was unable to afford a stone back in 1930.
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran

USA
5927 Posts

Posted - 06/06/2018 :  19:39:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well, everybody suffered in the 30s, complaining about what the long-dead did or did not do back in the day, is not where I was heading.

If you have exercised due diligence in your search and cannot ascertain the absolute correct result and the family still wants to mark the burial there is nothing wrong with putting up a stone with less complete information, if that's what they want to and can afford to do.

I'd just hope that a stone with incorrect or misleading information not be placed, because it would only compound future issues.


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