Hamburg sailings
Jon Raymond	Thanks to Børge and Harald, I now have information on the St. Olaf (DSND) which sailed from Oslo to Hamburg on June 11, 1870. Of course, that raises more questions. Were there transatlantic lines other than North German Lloyd out of Hamburg at that time? If the St. Olaf arrived in Hamburg about June 25, is there a listing of departures from Hamburg close to that date? Is there a source where I could obtain a picture of the St. Olaf and the connecting ship (once I find it)? I did find the web site that is posting the Hamburg passenger lists, but the earliest date so far is 1890. Thanks!
Borge	Hello Jon The first thing to do now is to check the Oslo (Kristisnia) emigration records to find the name of the agent. In the police lists there will always be information about the agent and/or the company. (See also the topic "Which port to North Dakota?" on the "Discussing passenger lists" board.) When you have that info, I will be able to help you further on the company, ships and route. I will also check my files for a picture of the St. Olaf, I think I have one. Børge Solem
Borge	Jon I have added some new information to a web page for the ship: http://www.norwayheritage.com/ships/st-olaf-SDS.htm The picture can probably be ordered in a much better quality from The Norwegian Maritime Museum (remember to add information about the company and captain, so they get the ship right): Norsk Sjøfartsmuseum Bygdøynesveien 37 0286 Oslo NORWAY They might be able to give further information too. If you get across any new information, or if you are able to get a better picture I would appreciate very much if you will let us know. Børge Solem
Jon Raymond	Børge, I sent an email to Norsk Sjøfartsmuseum and will advise when they reply. You said I should check the Oslo (Kristisnia) emigration records and police lists for information on the agent. How/where do I access this data? Is there a web site or do I have to order microfilms? I'm not familiar with this. Also, even though I check the box to be notified of a reply, I'm not receiving those notifications. Thanks, Jon Jon Raymond St. Paul Park, MN http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~raymond
Borge	The Oslo (Kristisnia) emigration records and police lists are the same. They are also known as the emigration registers. The lists are online at the Digitalarkivet. http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/index-eng.htm You should note that the online emigration records at the Digitalarkivet yet not are complete, and that for some years they excluded the information about the agents and companies for some reason. If you do not find that information in the online records, you must check the originals or borrow films. I will try to find out why you are not receiving the notifications, and would like to know if there are others who have experienced the same. Børge Solem
Jon Raymond	Børge, First, the notifications are now coming through okay. I am, of course, familiar with the digitalarkivet site, but didn't know about the police lists. For some of the people I've researched on the emigration records, I have noted the shipping company, but have not seen any mention of agents. Are the police lists a separate listing here? I'll have to find Ulrik and Johanna again and see what is listed. Thanks for your help. Jon Raymond St. Paul Park, MN http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~raymond
Borge	The emigration records (not the ships lists) are also called the police lists because they were made by the police as a register of those who had signed contracts with agents/transatlantic companies to be conveyed. All this was according to a law of 1869 about conveyance of emigrants to foreign parts of the world. The law was there to protect the emigrants fro fraud from the agents and companies, that is why they are ALWAYS noted in the original source. Did you read our article about hunting passenger lists? It might be of some help. http://www.NorwayHeritage.com/ships/em-prot.htm Børge Solem Edited by - borge
Jon Raymond	Børge, Your suggestions have led to success. I found them on the Oslo emigrant's list. It didn't help that "Arne Ulriksen Smestad" became "Arne Ulriksen Dahlen" and that his wife was listed as "Halvorsen, not Halvorsdatter!" One column is confusing, the "remarks" column. It is numbered sequentially. To what would this refer? Since this data doesn't include the agent, how would I locate the microfilm or original record to find this data? Again, thanks for your patience and help. Jon Raymond St. Paul Park, MN http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~raymond
Borge	I think the remarks column in this case shows the number under which the emigrants were entered in the original register. In the original register the police numbered all the entries, starting from no. 1 at the start of every year. However, I think that in the original source the numbers were entered in another column, and that you will find other information in the "remarks" column in the original. This means that the Digitalarkivet have excluded parts of the information in the original source, and reorganized other information. I am not exactly sure where you could get access to the films in the US. The Westerheim Museum and Naeseth library should have copies, and I know that the LDS has filmed the material, which means that maybe you can get them through ILL or by contacting a LDS family center near where you live. It is also possible to buy a copy from the Norwegian National Archives (Riksarkivet), but it will cost you a few $. Børge Solem
Borge	Jon Just a thought; if you have trouble getting access to the Norwegian films, you could try starting in the other end. My tip of the day is that they came over on a Hamburg America Line (HAPAG) ship to New York. If you get the NARA film covering the period when they would most likely arrive, your chances should be good. Expect to find them on an arrival approximate 3 week after leaving from Norway (+/-). If you have no luck with the New York (which I believe vas the route used by the majority of the HAPAG travellers from Norway) arrivals here are the other routes: Hamburg - Havre - New York - Plymouth - Cherbourg Hamburg - New Orleans Hamburg - New York Hamburg - Quebec (Montreal) Hamburg and Cuxhaven - Boston Børge Solem
Jon Raymond	Børge, A kind gentleman in Norway checked the orginal microfilm and found: Contract no=1737, Date for the contract:June 6, Name: Arne Ulriksen g(married), Occupation: farmer, Age: 37 Money which they brought: Spd.31,Agents name: Det Norske Udvandringsselskab, Route:Austin, Ship:St.Olaf, Homestead:Brandvold, Date for,departure: June 11,Ticket prize: Spd.119, b 17. I assume "money which they brought" is how much they travelled with. About how much would that be in today's money? Hans said that he could not find the contract, but we now know the contract number is 1737. If the contract isn't in the microfilm, would there be another source to look for this document? Thanks for your help. Jon Raymond St. Paul Park, MN http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~raymond
Borge	Det Norske Udvandringsselskab (The Norwegian emigration company) was represented in Kristiania (Oslo) by agent L. Knoph, which in 1869 and 1871 was authorized to convey emigrants on the Hamburg America Line (HAPAG). The exact authorization was: via Hamburg and from there by Aug. Bolten's steamships to New York or New Orleans and Galveston in Texas. August Bolton was one of the founders of the Hamburg America Line. I feel pretty sure that L. Knoph was representing HAPAG in 1870. The contract it self will not be found in any archives, as that was a document carried by the emigrant together with the ticket. However, much of the information you got from the original microfilm, is the same as what was written on the contract. If your family did not save their old documents, like the contract and ticket, it will most likely be lost for ever. Børge Solem