Where to start
jim htHi everyone this is my first post. My GGFather came from Norway, His name I,m told is very common...Axel Johansen. He was, I am told,a seaman, who presumably met my GGMother while he was in South Shields and stayed here. He died in 1929 at the age of 69 I have no proof of this but that would give hm a dob.of 1860. Their first child was registered in 1891, and the first record I have of him is in the 1900 census where his country of birth is Norway with an aside that he is nationalised, I have heard from other family history channels that this is rarely true! Unfortunately I cant find any record of their marriage either, . I suppose the way to go would be to look for any nationalisation cert and burrow through crew lists at the PRO but If any member has a better idea I would be grateful
thelebrityYou could give us some more information. Did he immigrate to the USA or the UK? Was his child in 1891 born in Norway or USA/UK? What was the name of this child/other children? What was the name of his wife? Johansen is a very common name. Axel isn't that common. Unfortunately the Digitalarkivet (www.digitalarkivet.no) is not up at the moment, so we can't check the norwegian emigrant lists, but there are only just above 20 persons named A(ks)xel Johan(n)(e)(s)sen born between 1855 and 1865 in the 1865 census if you deduct those still living in Norway according to the 1900 census.
jim htThanks for the reply, sorry, South Shields is in the UK. It was a large shipping port on the river Tyne, in fact there,s still a ferry to Bergen from the Tyne.The children were registered in South Shields. His wife my g,g,mother (but no proof yet they married) was called Catherine Robertson (she was a widow) I had no idea that there where only 20 persons of that name in that time window,
BorgeHi Jim This might be [url="http://129.177.171.80/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&filnamn=f70104.wc2&variabel=0&postnr=4977&fulle=true&spraak=n"]Axel Johansen in the 1875 census[/url]. He was a "boy servant" at Consul Gerner. His brother was a sailor (matros=able seaman). This Aksel was living with his family in Moss, his father was Johan Reier, a house carpenter. If this is your Aksel the next step should be to check the sailors registers for Moss. (See my article about [url="http://www.norwayheritage.com/ships/sailors.htm"]Maritime inscription - registers of seamen[/url]. The records for Moss are kept at the archives in Oslo: Statsarkivet i Oslo Address: Folke Bernadottes vei 21 Postboks 4015 Ulleval Stadion 0806 Oslo. You might get them to do a lookup for him if you include as much information as possible about his date and place of birth. They are usually not very happy about doing research, but if you have enough information so that they can find him without using too much time, they might do it.
jim htHi Borge, thanks for the quick reply, what a great site, I had allmost given up hope of ever finding him, and within a couple of posts I seem to be a lot nearer. As I cant speak Norwegian will these sites accept query,s in English ? Once again thanks .
BorgeIt is no problem writing in English to the Statsarkivet in Oslo. You can actually use English without any problems almost everywhere in Norway.
jim htThanks I,ll write tonight
BorgeDo you think that this is the right Axel then?
jim htWell..........Ive been trying to look at the census,s Lets say that he was born in 1860, give or take 2 years. He would be in the 1865 census and maybe in the 1875 census if he wasnt allready at sea. But as his first child was born in the uk in 1891 im not expecting him to be in the 1890 census (unless he was on a fast tea clipper [:D] ).but on the birth certificate he was down as a seaman. It would be a bonus if there was only one Axel Johansen DOB 1860 in the merchant seamen archives. When Im searching for him, do I call him Axel Johansen or Aksel Johannessen? In someof the uk search engines it doesnt matter but Im finding it a bit heavy reading. Oh another question,sorry, is the female name Ulvena/Elvena Norwegian as he called one of his later children that name. Thanks
BorgeThat last information about the naming of one of his children makes me believe that this is really the right person. From the 1875 census we see that a sister was named Elvine. Johan Reier - m (male) - hf (housefather) - g (married) - Hustømmermand (house carpenter) - born 1801 in Moss Anne Jakobsdatter - k (female) - Hans Kone (his wife) - g (married) - born 1825 in Soner Edvord Johansen - m (male) - Johan Reier's son - ug (not married) - Matros (able seaman) - born 1857 in Moss Aksel Johansen - m (male) - Johan Reier's son - Tjenestedreng hos Konsul Gerner (servant boy at Consul Gerner) born 1860 in Moss Elise Johansdatter - k (female) - d (daughter) - born 1863 in Moss Elvine Johansdatter* - k (female) - d (daughter) - born 1866?? in Moss When writing to the archive you should let them know that he was called Aksel in the 1875 census, but later went be the name Axel in the UK.
jim htBorge its looking even better....he called his first son (my grandfather) John Edward Johansen, which looks like his brothers name.........I,m trying not to get too excited though. I have an old uncle (Axles grandson) and I will phone him and see if anything jogs his memory..ie Oslo/Moss thanks again
BorgeThis is from the 1865 census: Johan Christophersen - hf (house father) - Hus Tømmerman (house carpenter) - g (married) - age 65 - born Heløen?? near Moss Anne Kaspara Jakopsdatter - Hans Kone (his wife) g (married) age 40 - born ??ner Sogn Edvart Marinius Johannsen - Deres Søn (their son) - ug - age 10 - born Moss Axel Johannsen* - Deres Søn (their son) - ug - age 7 - born Moss Elise Kirstine Johannsdatter* - Deres Datter (their daugther) - ug - age 4 - born Moss Age for Axel is off by 2 years!
BorgeThis looks to be Axel's grandfather and grandmother (and aunt) in the 1801 census: Smaalehnene Amt - Mosse Prestegjeld - Mosse Landsogn Sokn - Nr. 17 Reyer Gard (Reier) Christopher Joensen - Mand (male) - age 36 - Begge i 1ste ægteskab (both in first marriage) - Huusmand med jord (crofter with land) Maren Hansdtr - Hans kone (his wife) - age 24 - Begge i 1ste ægteskab Else Christophersdtr - Deres barn (their child) age 3 - Ugivt Anne Marie Hansdtr - Tienestepige (servant) age 15
jim htBorge thanks very much for all your doing for me... Is Anne Jacobsdatter and Hans Kone the same woman? I have phoned my uncle but he knows very little, If this works out ok then Ive promised him a trip to Moss. Ive got to sit down now and write that letter to Oslo......many thanks
jim htSorry.....Hans Kone = his wife...........see the thickheads you have to help....
Jo Anne SadlerHere is a Norwegian American dictionary site to help translate pre 1915 Norwegian. http://home.online.no/~otjoerge/files/word.htm
jim htThanks Jo
hayley jhi jim. my name is hayley and i live in tewkesbury, gloucestershire. just out of the blue i came on this site looking for ancestors and you caught my eye. you don't by any chance have a relative living in tewkesbury by the name of william? could you please get back to me as i think we both might be chasing the same tail.
jim htHi Hayley, yes tell my uncle Bill that if things pan out ok we might be taking him back to his grandfathers stomping ground this year.....jim
jim htBorge...... as you can see the Johansen family over here are getting quite excited. The begging letter to the Statsarkivet Oslo is allready posted, so, if their reply is positive, how do we find the local church in the Moss area that this family used? or the book that has the "parish records in"? Can we read it in English? If not can you/someone recommend a researcher who is a specialist in that area who we can contract to help.........and another question ( Im Sorry ) Axel was a boy servant at the "Consul Gerner" what was the Consul Gerner? thanks jim
JanTheManHi Jim... Consul Gerner was Carl Ewald Gerner, born 1847, millowner, store owner and consul (according to the 1875-census). I might also be able to help you some more: I live in Moss, more precisely at Jeløy (see the 1865-census: "born Heløen?? near Moss", should be Jeløen near Moss) and my childrens school is the Reier School, close to the Reier farm. You are welcome to contact me for more assistance, Jan
jim htThanks Jan, so if it is the same Axel he was a servant for what seems a wealthy family, Thanks for the offer of help, like I said I,m trying not to make too many assumptions till I get a positive report off Oslo, but If it is him, there will be a thousand questions that many I,m sure you will get sick of me. As it is, half the family from all over the UK are lurking this website now. Once again many thanks to you all...jim
BorgeI am sure that we will be able to find some way of checking the church records for you, but we should get confirmation that this is the family we are looking for first. [img]http://www.norwayheritage.com/images/icon_viking.gif[/img]
jim htThanks...........jim
KnutHi Jim. I have been in contact with Jan. We are in the same family, a very big family which name was Gasmann (Gasmand), most of them where hammersmiths. I have followed them back to the end of 1500 when we belive they come from Germany to Sweden and they where building iron Works there. One of the sons Hans emigrated to Norway about 1690 and died there 106 year old! His sons and descendants where hammersmiths on most of the Iron Works in Southern Norway. In the 1875 Census Johan Christophersen Reier was living i Verket 8 in Moss. I am born in the same house which is a very old house, built bye Moss Jernverk around 1750. Nearly all the houses in the street was built around 1750 and they are still in good condition. My family has been living there all the time in the same street. Johan C.R was first married with Marthe Maria Olsdatter in 1830 but I do not think they had any children and was later married to Anne Caspara Jacobsdatter. His father Christopher Johnsen Reier married to Maren Hansdatter. His father Jon (John) Jansen Gasmann and his 2.nd wife Rønnou Gutormsdatter His father Jan Hansen Gasmann married to Randi Engebretsdatter. His father Hans Giliussen Gasmann married to Anna Larsdatter. His father Gililius Gilliussen Gatzman married to Margareta Zahariasdatter. His father G. Gillusson Gatzman. I have two more which I am working with at the moment but this is very difficult since it is in the end of 1500 houndred with very little information about them. I have now around 1400 descendants. I have far to much information about them to write it here so please send me your mailadress. If you have problems to get my adress please let me know. Knut T.
jim htHi Knut, thanks very much for your reply, If I can definitely prove that my GGrandfather was in fact this Axel, it would be mind blowingly marvelous.....I havn,t had any word back yet from the Oslo seamens register archive, but Borge did warn me that they arn,t that keen on searching for people......As Axel and his brother Edward both died in England.......can you confirm that the guys we are talking about were never buried local to Moss. My brother who is also researching, says he has found marriages for an Axel and an Edward on the IGI in the Moss/local area . So could they have deserted their families??? I think to live in the same house as all your ancestors must be great, and give you a real sense of pride and community. After all the help and goodwill I have found in such a short time on this site, I would consider it a privilege to be related........jim....oh and thank Jan
jim htKnut if you wanted a mail adress rather than email its Jim Haynes 112 Brinkburn Crescent Houghton le Spring Tyne and Wear DH45HA England
jim htHello again, well I got a reply from the Statsarkivet I Oslo, they first told me they didnt do searches, but some kind soul sent a page saying that Aksel Johansen was not registered as a seaman in Moss between 1875-1895. So, Borge,Jan,Knut where do I go from here. The only thing I can think of is to make sure that A.Johansen was never buried in Norway. Is there anyway you can help me? jim
KnutHi Jim. I think that you have not received my mails of 24-1-2004 and probably not from 4-4-2004. If you have got any of them, tell me. I sent you with post a letter with your ancestors and a map of Moss. I think you will have it soon. As I told in the mail you can look at our homepage (Moss Aettehistorielag - Moss Family Historie Society) http://tvin.home.online.no and you will find two pictures of the street Verket (The Works) in Moss. The right picture shows the street long time ago and Verket 8 is in the other end and not on the picture. The left are of the the main building of Moss Jernverk (Konventionsgården) today main office of M.Peterson& Søn. That building are in the front of the right picture, close to the river and the waterfall. My adress on the homepage are not correct, so please dont use it. Knut.
BorgeKnut I think Jim is looking for a confirmation that this is really his family. We have still not found an actual source that can confirm that the Aksel Johansen we found in Moss is the man who went to sea and later settled in England and became his GGFather
jim htHi, Knut, Borge, yes that is my dilema at the moment, to make sure he is the right Axel. I must be having trouble with my AOL mail address Knut, I normally use my company pc because its quicker, but I cant recieve emails on it and rely on my home pc for them, which dont seem to be working at the moment. I will check into it now....thanks a lot Jim
jim htIve changed my email address hope that works now..jim
JanTheManHi Jim, You wrote in an earlier post "As Axel and his brother Edward both died in England". Do you have more info about Edward? JanTheMan
jim htHi Jan, not a lot at the present as we were all more interested in Axel, I believe another family member has a little stuff, whether its correct in the assumption its his brother or not, we dont know for sure yet. Which I will relay when I get it. Can you please tell Knut I have recieved his letter and am in the process of replying. Once again great thanks to you all jim
jim htBorge, Knut, Jan...............desperately need your help. There is of course a Moss family-history site, but unless I,m sure that Axel was never buried near Moss theres no point in joining it. Can anyone tell me that he was never buried there. thanks jim
qtmtHello This is my first look I'm looking for my family in Norway I know My g grand father was born in Balestrand his name was Truls Hermundsen Mael have never seen a name like that for a Norweigen he was baptised 3/27/1796 in Sogndal, Balestrand norway is the mael name still in use and where it this area. My grandfather was from Bergen and I do know some of the family there well I will when we visit this summer. His Name is Haldor Kvamme came to the US in 1914 or so that we have more on but would like to know more on the Mael side. Tom Q
HopkinsYour posting appears as tacked on the end of a long running thread here - maybe you meant to start a new thread? Balestrand is in Sogn og Fjordane Norway - Truls appears in the 1801 Norwegian census there with his parents -- they live on a farm which was spelled in that census as Meell - which spelling was obviously changed later. That's where the later 'surname' was adapted from. http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&filnamn=f11419&variabel=0&postnr=2350&fulle=true&spraak=e
PiecesOHHi, I am researching a man by the name of Axel Johansen who washed ashore in the USA sometime prior to 1902. He is listed as Norwegian sea captain/ He was rescued by the daughter of a keeper and ended up marrying her. He stayed in the USA and became the keeper of a House of Refuge. It may be the same person you are looking for. Let me know if this is who you are looking for.
jim htHi P.OH, it cant be the same guy, my ggfather was only a fireman I believe ( the guys who stoked the boilers in steam ships) best of luck to you............jim ht
Brooklynbabe
quote:
Originally posted by jim ht
Hi P.OH, it cant be the same guy, my ggfather was only a fireman I believe ( the guys who stoked the boilers in steam ships) best of luck to you............jim ht
If you are just starting your research, you may not know that sometimes stories have a kernal of truth and are changed a little through time - This man might have been remembered as a sea captain, when in actuallity he may have had some other title. I have found issues like this with my own family - I would look into it if I were you. Good Luck!
PiecesOH
quote:
Originally posted by jim ht
Hi P.OH, it cant be the same guy, my ggfather was only a fireman I believe ( the guys who stoked the boilers in steam ships) best of luck to you............jim ht
Thanks jim ht for the advice. I have many sources that say Axel Johansen was a shipwreck victim in the late 1880's. Its a really neat story about the woman who saved him. He returned to Norway for a couple years, then moved back the US. Any advice on how to find his relatives in Norway? Thanks for your help. P. OH
jim htHi again P.OH, the best thing to do is to look at the bottom of this page and start a new topic where your individual question may be answered. People are looking at this link and remembering that they have nothing to add, so they will ignore it. whereas, when they see your topic, you never know, you might strike lucky! Having said that, keep in touch, and the best of luck jim ht
hayley jhey Jim, have you found out anything else? please contact me, William wants to know anything he can on his history, hehehe.... best of luck Hayley