glad to have found this site
catheMy mother came to Canada in March 1935 and the records only seem to go to 1925. The family lived in Sud Oslo.......... the spelling is probably incorrect but, that is south of Oslo. When the winter Olympics were help in Lilihammer Mom told me that it was about 60 miles from where she came from. The family name is Sander. I would really appreciate being able to find more information. [:I] Thosten Jensen Sander 1807 - 1900 (Great great grandfather) Ole Sigrart Tostensen 1851 - 1923 (Great grandfather) Tosten Olsen Sander 1887 - 1958 (Grandfather who brought the family to Canada in 1935) Cathe
askeroiDear Cathe. I really would like to try to help. But why are you so afraid of giving information? How can I find anything when your mother's name, birth year and parents is a secret? In the 1900 cencus there were 2 people carrying the Name Sander in Østfold, 16 in Akershus, 32 in Oslo, 2 in Hedmark and 1 in Oppland. And they are spread thoughout nummerous communities? And do you mean 60 miles south of Lillehammer or Oslo. And why not give the distance in kilometer? Please read Borge's rules...
BorgeHere is the family living at Søndre Odalen in Hedemark, on the Sander farm, as seen in the [url="http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&filnamn=f00419&variabel=0&postnr=3760&fulle=true&spraak=n"]1865 census[/url]. And here they are in the [url="http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&filnamn=f00419&variabel=0&postnr=3760&fulle=true&spraak=n"]1900 census[/url]
BorgeTorsten Ols. Sander (b. July 3rd 1887) bought a ticket for America on September 19th 1907, and departed from Kristiania on the [url="http://www.norwayheritage.com/p_ship.asp?sh=monte"]S/S Montebello[/url] on September 21st 1907. He was traveling alone and listed as "not married". He had purchased his ticket from agent M. R. Raffel for 282 Norw. Kroner. His final destination was given as North Dakota. He traveled via Hull in England and went by train from there to Liverpool where he boarded a transatlantic steamer belonging to the Cunard Line. Raffel was the general agent in Norway for the Cunard Line in 1907. Tosten is listed in the [url="http://www.ellisislandrecords.org/search/passRecord.asp?MID=16898224590260509792&FNM=T&LNM=SAN&PLNM=SAN&CGD=M&SYR=1907&EYR=1907&RF=39&pID=102097030184"]Ellis Island database[/url] as "Sander-Olsen, Thursten" arriving on October 2nd on the [url="http://www.norwayheritage.com/p_ship.asp?sh=carma"]S/S Carmania[/url]
askeroiIt's good someone (Børge) reads better than I am. I thought it was a question of the grandmother's family. Sorry, it's the eyes that first turns blind... [:I][:I]
catheWow......... that is my grandfather. This is overwhelming. I do not know for how long but, he was in North America as a young man. Apparently he travelled and probably worked his way around the US. When he emmigrated to Canada in 1935, it is said that it was actually his intention to settle in Minnesota where there is/was a large population of Norwegians. Thank you so much, Cathe
catheHi: It's Cathe again........ I am looking at the Census and would like to know the meaning of a couple of words please. I see "Herred" and under it "Sondre Odalen". Can you tell me the meaning of those words? Cathe
Jo Anne SadlerHere is a link for Norwegian words geared to genealogy: http://home.online.no/~otjoerge/files/word.htm
catheThank you....... Some of the words are archaic but the site also helped with some of them. Apparently my grandfather Torstejn Olsen Sander spent about 4 1/2 to 5 years in the US and then had to return home because his father fell ill. From what I understand, he was to inherit because he was the oldest son. Is there a way to tell when he returned to Norway from the US approx. 1911/1912? Cathe
catheI went to the Ellis Island records in the U.S. records and the arrival confirms......... however, I am unable to find out when my grandfather returned home to Norway. Can you give me any direction?
catheDoes anyone have anything on 'Petronelle'? The one I have is Petronelle Holgersdatter Moss 1811 - 1886. Apparently Petronelle has some significance. Cathe
BriningPetronille is Thosten Jensen's wife. Here they are on the 1865 census [url="http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&filnamn=f60419&variabel=0&postnr=3615&fulle=true&spraak=e"]Click Here[/url] (Borge your 1865 census link went to the 1900 census [:p] )The census shows she was born in Søndre Odalen Prgj. but that could be wrong. Carla
BriningThe LDS IGI has a christening record [url="http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/IGI/individual_record.asp?recid=500219795341&lds=1®ion=12®ionfriendly=Norway&frompage=99"]Click Here[/url] for PETRONELLE and marriage record to Tosten [url="http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/IGI/individual_record.asp?recid=500220001738&lds=1®ion=12®ionfriendly=Norway&frompage=99"]Click Here[/url] Carla
catheThank you very much.............. That is absolutely the correct census with 'Petronille Holgersd.' Is there any way to figure out who her parents and family were? You all have been so wonderful that I am afraid that I might be wearing out my welcome.
HopkinsCotter is the more appropriate spelling. Cottar is a much less often used spelling variation. I think the Heritage Ilustrated DICTIONARY of the English Language/International Edition 1973 must be at fault. The spelling cottier is usually more specific to the Irish. I've just checked four different English dictionaries and cotter is the preferred spelling for the word you want.
catheI have been trying to play with the census myself and been unsuccessful......... can anyone find: Mathilde Kvernstuen 1880 - 1963 wife Kristoffer Kvernstuen 1870 - 1940 husband Most grateful..........
jwiborgHi, are you talking about the Norwegian 1900-census? Were they [Mathilde & Kristoffer] married by 1900? Mathilde was only 20 then, so if she's not married by the time of the census, she will be listed by her maiden name. Kvernstuen is most likely from a farm name, and could be the place where Kristoffer was born, but it could also be a place he bought as an adult. If Kristoffer did not live there by 1900, he could also be listed by his patronymic. Jan
askeroiThere are no Kristoffers on Kvernstuen in 1900. There is one Mathilde, though, but she's born in 1884...? http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&filnamn=f00525.wc2&variabel=0&postnr=3503&fulle=true&spraak=n
catheJan: Yes………. The Norwegian 1900-census………. I didn’t think of this though. Married? Well, I just found out about a week ago, from my mom, that my grandmother was their first child and was born before they were married. The child was Manghild Olava Kvernstuen 1899-1961. The other four girls were named ‘Kristoffersen’ [Karen 1900-1973, Margit 1903-1991, Anni 1908-19 , and Emmi 1910-2001. Emmi was a spinster (from what I understand) and left her property to the nieces and nephews – my mom being one of them. Mom finally told me that there was some question as to the legitimacy of her family because of this, although my 2nd cousin in Norway was instrumental in making sure that it was corrected. Has anyone every read ‘The Shame That Binds’ or ‘When Mothers and Daughters Can’t be Friends’? Askeroi responded to my first enquiry ‘But why are you so afraid of giving information?’ When their aunt passed my mom’s sister (Aunt Berit) contacted me and my mom was ticked at me, duh. People are forever killing the messenger. I love my Mom and she is getting better (my daughter can be just like her) – ‘she knew not what she was doing’. Shoot, it’s such a long story…….. She forbade me to go down east and visit the family. She isn’t a monster but I can certainly make her sound like one. Oh, the skeletons in the closet. If she only knew the real me! LOL. Then again, maybe she wouldn’t have been so hard on me. She never ridiculed my brothers. Oh, well………. There’s a special seat in heaven for me. Yes, I am totally crazy and I like it that way. Please don’t give me the boot – I am joking.
jwiborgHi, based on your latest information, I believe I've found them in the 1900-census: [url="http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&filnamn=f00419.wc2&variabel=0&postnr=3608&fulle=true&spraak=e"]click here[/url] The family lives on the farm Rydningen in Søndre Odalen, Hedmark. Kristoffer & Mathilde are married, but the census says in coloumn "yrke" (profession) for Maghild, that she is Kristoffers daughter. Normally, such statements indicate that the woman listed [Mathilde] is not the mother... To be sure, you will have to look-up the churchbooks for the area [Sør-Odal, Hedmark county, February 1899].
  • Kristoffer Andreassen is born 1873 (+/- 1) in Søndre Odalen, Hedmark
  • Matilde Olsdatter is born 1879 (+/- 1) in Kristiania (Oslo)
  • Maghild Kristoffersdatter is born Feb. 18, 1899 in Søndre Odalen, Hedmark.
Widower Anders Kristoffersen b.1821 looks to be Kristoffers father. [url="http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&filnamn=f60419&variabel=0&postnr=3343&fulle=true&spraak=e"]Here[/url] he is in census 1865. Hope this helps!! [:)] Jan ps: I saw that you had a question to the norwegian words herred and sondre odalen. Herred means township / municipality, and "Søndre Odalen" is a township in Hedmark county. Nowadays, the spelling of the township is Sør-Odal.
catheJan: Your efforts are greatly appreciated - Maghild Kristoffersdatter is born Feb. 18, 1899 in Søndre Odalen, Hedmark. The date I have is Feb 18, 1890 (info from my cousin in Boston) Some stuff makes sense …………… well, other names fit as well………. I am still finding it to be very confusing……………….. my second cousin (in Norway) gave me a breakdown from his side of the family. He shows the parents of Manghild Olava Kvernstuen 1899-1961 as: Mathilde Kvernstuen 1880-1963 Kristoffer Kvernstuen 1870-1940 Although the other sisters were given the family name: ‘Kristoffersen’ Cathe
jwiborgCathe, there is no doubt in my mind that this must be the correct family... [:)] You must take into consideration that people in Norway throughout the years have had different "rules" for making up a lastname... Up until approx. 1900, it was very common to take your father's first name, and adding a "-sen"(if you were the son) or adding a "-datter" (if you were the daughter). So Mathilde's father's firstname is Ole. But at the end of the century, people startet to make up a Lastname depending on the farm they where living. Since Kristoffer lived on the farm Rydningen, he could have called himself "Kristoffer Rydningen" for some years after 1900 and onwards. At some time he must have bought the farm "Kvernstuen" [some years after 1900], and he changed his lastname to Kvernstuen. That was very common! Jan Btw; Kvernstuen and Rydningen are two farms very close to each other, in the same township.
catheJan: On the 1900 census that you gave me....... (thank you so much). Just a couple of questions: Under birthplace: what does 'T' mean? and what does 'Kr.ania' mean? Cathe
jwiborg
  • "T" means that he is born in the same township; i.e. he is born in "Søndre Odalen", or Sør-Odal which is the modern spelling of the area.
  • "Kr.ania" is short for "Kristiania/Christiania", the capital of Norway. The modern name (since 1925) of the city is Oslo... Oslo was the original name of the town, until King Christian IV came to the town in 1624, and named the city after himself... [:)]
//Jan
catheJan: Sorry……… there are more. I thought that I would be able to find these in the dictionary. Husmdsplads Jordbrugende husmand Dagarejder ved jordbr.arbejde. Skogsarbejder Husgj., Kreaturstel pa bostedet Dagarbejderens Thank you, Cathe
jwiborgNo problem, these words or sentences are often hard to translate. The language is old Danish, and abbreviations are often used... [:p]
  • Husmandsplads = cotter's farm
  • Jordbrugende husmand = farming cotter
  • Dagarbejder ved jordbrugsarbejde. Skogsarbejder = Dayworker within agriculture. Lumberman
  • Husgjærning, Kreaturstel på bostedet = Housekeeper, taking care of the cattles on the farm
  • Dagarbejderens datter = The Dayworkers daughter
//Jan
catheThank You Jan: However............. I looked up cotter in the Heritage dictionary and found it to be exactly what I thought it was lol...... i.e. cotter pin........ lol. Would cotter actually be 'cottier'? The Heritage Ilustrated DICTIONARY of the English Language/International Edition 1973. Cottier n. A peasant renting land directly from its owner, the rate having been fixed by public competition. [Middle English, from Old French 'cotier', cottager, from 'cote' (unattested), cottage, perhaps from Middle English 'cot'. COT (cottage.)] Some things make me feel so dumb...... I have to remind myself that there is no such thing as a dumb question. Cathe
jwiborgHi, yes; you're right about that! [:)] It should not be a cotter pin!! I guess it should be spelled cottier... , and maybe also cottar? And crofter could be used as well, sorry about the confusion! :-) Blame it on my dictionary, who have it wrong! [:I] Jan
catheI have found my gg-grandfather's parents in the LDS but, can't find anything further than them....... maybe there is another way of determining what goes back from there. I would really appreciate any input....... My gg-grandfather: Tosten Jenssen Sander Sept 30, 1807 to June 25, 1900. He was born in Hedmark, Norway, died in Norway and his parents were: Jens. Th. Oppi born 1784 Of, Odalen, Hedmark, Norway Mrs. Oppi was born about 1788 Jens. Th. Oppi and Mrs. Oppi were married in 1806 Odalen, Hedmark, Norway I was wondering if there was another way of trying to backtrack this or if anyone had any relation to them. Cathe
HopkinsFarm called 'Oppie' in Strøm parish of Sør Odal (Søndre Odalen), Hedmark. The 1801 census for that farm - http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&filnamn=f10418&variabel=0&postnr=2080&fulle=true&spraak=n The church books for that area as early as 1689 are available on LDS microfilm. You could also look for the bygdebøk for the area - "Sør-Odal Bygdebok", 5 volumes by Birger Kirkeby.
catheHopkins: Thank you so much...... the 1801 census is definitely the match to my ggg-gr-father and his father born 1745 who is noted as being 'insane, crazy'........ Does anyone know what that would be interpretted as? Just curious of course. How would I locate the church books for the area on LDS microfilm? And the bygdebok, 5 volumes by Birger Kirkeby. Much appreciated, Cathe
HopkinsI learned how to obtain and use the church records, and Norwegian bygdebøker here - http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~norway/articles.html