Corresponding ships in Hull/Liverpool
einarhMS Tasso departed from Kr.sund on 20 July 1876, bound for Hull. There is no Hull connection found, however many ships departed from Liverpool later in July and early August, most of them bound for Philadelphia. Anyone out there having a clue as to find the right ship for a Norwegian emigrant who went by Tasso via Hull/Liverpool the said day - in order to follow the person through in Philadelphia and possibly track her further in the US? ekho
BorgeStart by checking the "emigrantprotokoll" for the name of the agent or shipping company. Then check the database on this site to see the authorization and routes for for that line in 1876.
einarhDear Børge, Thank you for your pleasant reply! Siri Anna Ottersen of Bardu traveled by SS Tasso from Trondheim/Ålesund/Kristiansund on 20 July 1876. The vessel was a Wilson line ship (the first of 5 ships with the name owned by the company). It was bound for Hull in England. However, Norwegian records have indicated Inman line in this respect - and indeed, there is a "connection", since a few of the corresponding ships from England to America really belonged to the Inman line. In records showed on this site (Norway-Heritage) I could find NO connection in Hull, but a large number of ships departing from Liverpool, amongst them Inman line ships like SS City of Limerick. Almost all emigrant ships departing from Liverpool were bound for Philadelphia! How should I proceed to get hold of passenger lists confirming that Siri Anna really departed from Liverpool - aboard which ship, port of arrival in the US and the date of arrival there? Best wishes from Einar
BorgeTo go via Hull (or Newcastle) was the usual route for Norwegian Emigrants traveling with companies which ships departed from Britain. If you read the articles about Hull and the transatlantic voyage on this site, you will learn that they traveled by train from Hull to Liverpool. The S/S City of Limerick looks like a good match, but you will have to check the list to confirm if they were on it. The passenger lists are all available on microfilm. Microfilms can be ordered from NARA, for a quite reasonable price. They should also be available by Inter Library Loan, or from the LDS family centers. Check this information from [url="http://www.archives.gov/publications/microfilm_catalogs/immigrant/customs_records_1820_1891.html#phl"]the NARA web site[/url]: # Index to Passenger Lists of Vessels Arriving at Philadelphia, PA, 1800--1906. M360. 151 rolls. 16mm. DP. # Passenger Lists of Vessels Arriving at Philadelphia, PA, 1800--1882. M425. 108 rolls. DP.
einarhHi Børge, I have identified the roll nos for passenger index and passengers lists respectively and may fill in the microfilm order to NARA. At the same time I obtained an offer from NARA, Washington DC who can scrutinize lists for a fee. What choice is the most practical and time-saving? Best from
Jo Anne SadlerAn easier and probably quicker way is to rent the same microfilms at a local Family History Center, there are several in Norway: [url="http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHC/frameset_fhc.asp"]click here[/url] Our new Federal budget is proposing severe budget reductions for NARA and exactly what this will eventually involve is an unknown. Do not rely on the indexes alone, they are not complete. My ggrandfather was not in the indexes in 1878 but I looked at the passenger lists anyway and found him.
einarhJust wonder what next? Meaning when/if "my" names are found on the passenger lkists to America (say, Philadelphia), how to trace the person(s) in question from the port of arrival, via some train connection (ticket purchase) or what? Best - and a happy 17 May to you all!
Jo Anne SadlerThere are no lists for train travel within the U.S. The City of Limerick was operated by the American Line which was started by the Pennsylvania Railroad Company, there is information on this site about it and also much information on the web and a recent book. Passengers on American Line ships would have completed their travel on trains, sometimes quite tedious with many transfers. You have to research how this line operated, their rail connections and reconstruct the journey within the U.S. that way.
einarhDear Jo Anne, could you advise me as to the recent book you mentioned? Best
Jo Anne SadlerI knew you'd ask[:p]. I was able to get a copy from a local library but Amazon.com sells it: [url="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0393047105/qid=1116439609/sr=1-7/ref=sr_1_7/103-2991230-2753405?v=glance&s=books"]click here[/url] Interesting book but really not much on the immigrant experience and nothing about what they did or where they went after they arrived in Philadelphia.
BorgeI have the book and can do a lookup if your specify what you need.
einarhHi Børge! Connections from Philadelphia by train to Moorhead or other places in MN in 1876. And what about disturbances due to the War of Independence? The Norw. lady (single) traveled with other folks from her village in Bardu - a huge family named Bonæs - all had named Moorhead,MN their destination. Best
BorgeThere is no such information in that book. However, there were railroad connections between Philadelphia and New York, and from there you could reach most places in Minnesota
[img]http://www.norwayheritage.com/gallery/gallery/Historic_Documents/Newspaper_advertisements/philadelphia.JPG[/img]
Jo Anne SadlerIf you are referring to the American Civil War, that was from 1861-1865 so it was long over in 1876. While immigration was greatly reduced in that period, the trains were not significantly disrupted.
einarhHi Jo Anne and Børge! Thanks for advise. As for my war worries .... forget about it! That was a terrible slip-of-the-pen or smth. Very regrettable. Now, most likely I will want to make another try in Moorhead, in part with data from NARA and partly based on fresh local info from here about the Bonæs family who went by same ship (Tasso) and with the same destination (Moorhead, MN). I shall never give up! Best
einarhHi, From the website of the National Maritime Museum, UK - I found a short, but interesting article by Nicholas J. Evans, referring to T. C. Blegen's book "Norwegian Migration to America" (Minnestota, 1940) - plus Howe and Taylor. I have the book by Blegen, titled "Norwegian Migration to America - 1825 - 1860" in which the author envisages to publish a follow-up work covering the period after 1860. Do you know if the follow-up has ever materialized? Under any circumstances, Mr. Blegen's writing is a goldmine for us "Minnesota fans"....
einarhHi Carla! Wonderful! After all these years..... Now, however, I could not find matching responses by "clicking here" on Cass County's registers. Sigrid Anna traveled in August 1876 and according to your mail she must have married Severt Olson Nov. 5, 1879. In any case, I will go further and try to find if they had children. How to go about that? Best Einar
einarh
quote:
Originally posted by Jo Anne Sadler
I knew you'd ask[:p]. I was able to get a copy from a local library but Amazon.com sells it: [url="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0393047105/qid=1116439609/sr=1-7/ref=sr_1_7/103-2991230-2753405?v=glance&s=books"]click here[/url] Interesting book but really not much on the immigrant experience and nothing about what they did or where they went after they arrived in Philadelphia.
einarhFrom Philadelphia they spred.... They had "skyldfolk" or relatives or simply happened to know someone somewhere - or they changed plans they might already have. Bur what about the immigrant authorities in Philadelphia - are there no archives left from there..?
HopkinsNational Archives has microfilm rolls of passenger lists of arrivals in Philadelphia . Indexes for a limited time period too. What the National Archives has on microfilm is usually available worldwide through LDS FHL library network too - http://home.att.net/~wee-monster/phillylists1800.html
BriningHi Is your Siri Anna the same person as Sigrid Anna Ottersdatter in the 1875 census [url="http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&filnamn=f71922&gardpostnr=100&personpostnr=789#nedre"]Click Here[/url] If so this may be her in the Cass county marriage records [url="http://dp3.lib.ndsu.nodak.edu/marriage/search.cgi"]Click Here[/url] Severt Olson and Sigred Anna Ottersdater November 5, 1879 Cass County is in North Dakota, across the Red River from Moorehead. The other emigrants from Bardo settled in Polk county Minnesota. Carla
BriningThat site doesn't require the whole name, it searches on any part of what you enter. In the last name field put otter Leave the first name field blank Click on Search and they should be listed on the first page. They are in the 1900 census in Ransom County [url="http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/nd/ransom/census/1900/"]Click Here[/url] select 128-01a.gif line number 44 Their daughter Lettie is married to Paul A Tingstad and they are in Adams County census 1910 [url="http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/nd/adams/census/1910/002-03a.gif"]Click Here[/url] and 1920 [url="http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/nd/adams/census/1920/06-01b.gif"]Click Here[/url] You may find more info in the Adams county archives [url="http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/nd/adams/adams.htm"]Click Here[/url] or Ransom County Archives [url="http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/nd/ransom/ransom.htm"]Click Here[/url] Carla
HopkinsThe 1910 US census for Ransom Co. lists 'Sigridana' as having been married for 21 yrs, the mother of two children (both still surviving). In the household are also listed two sons - Engvold I (born 1865 Norway) and Ole A. (born 1882? North Dakota). Also listed a daughter, Lettie (born 1880 North Dakota). A son-in-law and grandson Tinstad also in the household. Interesting that another grandaughter is also listed - Stella S. Olson (born 1897 North Dakota) but her father is listed as born in Wisconsin and her mother born North Dakota... (Am I the only person confused? :-))
BriningHi Hopkins, I'm pretty sure that this is the second marriage for Severt and Engvold is his son from the first marriage. Siri Anna's 2 children are Ole and Lettie. It is hard to say who Stella's parents are although she is with Paul and Lettie in the 1910 census. Possibly Lettie's child from a previous relationship. Carla
einarhHi Carla and Hopkins! You cannot possibly grasp how great I think your research has been and how happy I am with the results. This is almost unbelievable. Mind you - about 10 years ago, I was sitting in the Deichmanske Library in Oslo, scrutinizing micro fiche from the relevant period - films on marriages and deaths in (sic!) Ransom county. Nothing there! Because, now realizing, the names were simply wrong. Should have searched for Olsen. But I know that this is exactly the problem you might encounter when your search is about a lady (single) who went to America in the late 1800s. I don't know how to thank you! If it can help explain some of the mysteries regarding names, fact is that Sigrid Anna's sister, Ingeborg Otterson(datter) - and her son Ole Ingvald Johansen traveles by SS Tasso to America in 1900 and their destination was Lisbon, North Dakota!!! May be the Olsens had moved from Cass county to Lisbon by then and were ready to help Ingeborg and the lad to get along in the New World? And that they all happened to end up - so far - in Aadams county? By the way: Engvold is a rather typical Norwegian SURNAME. And if he was born in Norway in 1865, Severt could perhaps not have been his father. Have a very nice day. And again: THANK YOU! Einar
BriningHi Einar, I'm glad it worked out. Ransom county is right next to Cass County so it was probably closer for them to marry in Cass county. I am pretty sure that this is Severt, with 1st wife Anna and son Engvald in the 1880 census [url="http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&filnamn=DAKO1880&gardpostnr=3352&merk=3352#ovre"]Click Here[/url] Carla
einarhHi Carla! I think you are a hundred per cent correct. Thinking it over, I find that Engvold isn't the Norwegian surname Engvold, but of course Ingvald (with "I") which is in fact a common first name of boys in Norway. However, what puzzels me now is that Severt is head of household in his first household (first marriage) as late as at 1900 census, whilst we agree that he married Siri Anna on 5 November 1889!!!! What do you think is the technical explanation? Some wrong registering or what?
einarhExcuse me, Carla: They married 5 November 1879. But that does not change anything, really - in relation to the census of 1900 as far as Severt is concerned. Best Einar
einarhExcuse me once again, please! The census in question is of course 1880, but still it should not change anything, since Severt and Siri Anna married in 1879. Correct? Best Einar
HopkinsIt was the 1910 census that listed the marriage at 21 years.... 1910 minus 21 should mean married about 1889. -- No, I'm wrong. That was the 1900 census. So ignore previous note please.
einarhOK, Hopkins. Census in question is 1900. That makes sence. However, (to Carla): The linked list you sent me on 7. July shows that Severt was head of (the old) household (previous marriage) as late as 1880. How come, then, that he married with Siri Anne on 5. November the year before? I wished I had an explanation to this mystery, too.... Best Einar
BriningSuch confusion [:D] I think the 1880 census has Severt and Siri ANNA using only her second name Anna and Tolleta is Lettie. The ages work out. So no record of Severt's 1st marriage if there was one. They emigrated in 1876 according to the 1900 census so the only way to know for sure would be to trace them back to Norway. I wonder if they came from the same area as Siri Anna. There is always another mystery to solve [;)] Carla
einarhHi Carla, You are for certain able to find out, by a profound detective way of thinkikng, thins I could never do. Thank you. Sevcert's first marriage is actually of no further interest - I just wondered about the seemingly puzzling discrepancy.. Now you have found out - that also! I could try and find out if Severt came from Bardo as well as Siri Anna did. I forgot to mention that she was a sister of my great grandfather, Otter Ottersen - in Bardu, Troms. I was born there too. Best And a nice weekend to you. Einar
einarh
quote:
Originally posted by einarh
Hi Carla and Hopkins! You cannot possibly grasp how great I think your research has been and how happy I am with the results. This is almost unbelievable. Mind you - about 10 years ago, I was sitting in the Deichmanske Library in Oslo, scrutinizing micro fiche from the relevant period - films on marriages and deaths in (sic!) Ransom county. Nothing there! Because, now realizing, the names were simply wrong. Should have searched for Olsen. But I know that this is exactly the problem you might encounter when your search is about a lady (single) who went to America in the late 1800s. I don't know how to thank you! If it can help explain some of the mysteries regarding names, fact is that Sigrid Anna's sister, Ingeborg Otterson(datter) - and her son Ole Ingvald Johansen traveles by SS Tasso to America in 1900 and their destination was Lisbon, North Dakota!!!
einarhHi again! As you might have guessed, I had made a try to draw attention to the concluding section in a previous message - the one about Ingeborg Otterson(datter) and the boy whose name was Ole Ingvald (Ingvard) Johansen from Bardu in Troms. Despite numerous attempts over years to "find them" - there is no trace. Thing is: Their travel was prepaid from America and their destination was Lisbon. Looking at a Google's map of Ransom county ND I find that Siri Anna's and Severt Olson's first farm was near Oakes, the former Bear Creek county - and this is - interestingly - quite close to Lisbon! There must have been planned something to the effect that Siri Anna's sister and her son(?) would come and settle near Siri Anna's new homestead in Ransom. But HOW to trace Ingeborg? And Ole Ingvald? Best
einarhI think i spotted Ole Ingvald Johansen (8 years old as an emigrant from Bardu, Norway ) in May, 1900 onboard SS Tasso to Hull (and from Liverpool further on to America). In 1910 US census he was at a farm belonging to relatives of his, in Northland township, Ransom county, North Dakota). It was probably his cousin, Ole A. Olson (son of Siri Anna Ottersdatter from Bardu) who run the farm with his wife Mary (also from Norway). Ole and his family later settled in Grand Forks City, ND. But the traces of Ole Ingvald after 1910 seem to be "lost". Any clue? Best
einarhOle A. Olson - could anyone help, knowing the tack finding ancestors in obituaries or elsewhere? This search has really come to a halt but I hope to get ahead again by assistance to find ancestors of Ole A. olson in the Grand Forks area or Grand Forks city.
BriningI have a possibility for Ole I in the North Dakota Naturalization records [url="http://dp3.lib.ndsu.nodak.edu/cgi-bin/NaturalRec/search.pl?rec_per_page=20&page=1&name=johnson%2C+ole+i&country=&county=&submit=Search%21"]Click Here[/url] The Ole Ingvald in McLean county would be the likely one since he would probably be too young in 1905. You can get copies but I'm not sure what info would be on it. Carla
einarh[:)] Hi Carla I have consulted with the ND office for naturalization info from McLean county but they did not seem to be able to offer much help. My recent efforts are concentrated on Ole Olsen (son of Severt Olsen in Ransom) and his descendants, plus Ole Ingvald Johnson (Johansen) who traveled to America with Siri Anna's sister Ingeborg in May 1900 onboard MS Tasso from Trondheim via Hull, (she too ...). Further, I have been awaiting a reply from a public office (genealogy) in Grand Forks as for Ole Olsen's descendants. By the way: I have established contact with my relatives in Seattle after you put me on track and I found my third cousins living there. They have some more clues, however not as to Ingeborg, Ole Ingvald and even not for Ole Olsen, who of course was the brother of Lettie Olsen Tingstad. All the best to you Einar[:)]
einarh
quote:
Originally posted by einarh
[:)] Hi Carla I have consulted with the ND office for naturalization info from McLean county but they did not seem to be able to offer much help. My recent efforts are concentrated on Ole Olsen (son of Severt Olsen in Ransom) and his descendants, plus Ole Ingvald Johnson (Johansen) who traveled to America with Siri Anna's sister Ingeborg in May 1900 onboard MS Tasso from Trondheim via Hull, (she too ...). Further, I have been awaiting a reply from a public office (genealogy) in Grand Forks as for Ole Olsen's descendants. By the way: I have established contact with my relatives in Seattle after you put me on track and I found my third cousins living there. They have some more clues, however not as to Ingeborg, Ole Ingvald and even not for Ole Olsen, who of course was the brother of Lettie Olsen Tingstad. All the best to you Einar[:)]
einarhHi Carla and all the others! Of course I am overly happy to have received your help to find my people in Seattle! I want to thank you, Carla and Hopkins and all of you who contributed wholeheartedly to spot dem by digging deep in the best of sources. Your work is highly appreciated by all of us novices who were stuck for years before we finally discovered this wonderful site. I have recommended Norway Heritage on a number of occasions. Best from Einar
einarh
quote:
Originally posted by Brining
I have a possibility for Ole I in the North Dakota Naturalization records [url="http://dp3.lib.ndsu.nodak.edu/cgi-bin/NaturalRec/search.pl?rec_per_page=20&page=1&name=johnson%2C+ole+i&country=&county=&submit=Search%21"]Click Here[/url] The Ole Ingvald in McLean county would be the likely one since he would probably be too young in 1905. You can get copies but I'm not sure what info would be on it. Carla
einarhHi Carla, On my request the Archives of ND sent me a copy of the naturalization certificate of Ole Ingvald Johnson in McLean county. This was, unfortunately, not the right person, since he came from Nitrtedal - which is impossible in our context. Since then I have not been able to look further for Ole Ingvald. Best
BriningHi Einar, Do you know Ole Ingvald Johnson's birth date? There are several Ole Johnsons born in 1892/1891 in the SSDI [url="http://ssdi.genealogy.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/ssdi.cgi"]Click Here[/url]. You could try joining the Norway-L mailing list and posting a query there. [url="http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~norway/norway-list.html"]Click Here[/url] It has members from all over the US and the world so someone may have access to information that could help. If Ole is still in Ransom county in 1910, it would seem that his mother would be in the area also. She probably married or she may have died before the census. Carla
einarhHi Brining! The Norway-L is a very valuable source, a network of great extension - and great people. Ole Ingvald isn't found yet, but we are working. Best Einar
einarh
quote:
Originally posted by Brining
Hi Einar, Do you know Ole Ingvald Johnson's birth date? There are several Ole Johnsons born in 1892/1891 in the SSDI [url="http://ssdi.genealogy.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/ssdi.cgi"]Click Here[/url]. You could try joining the Norway-L mailing list and posting a query there. [url="http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~norway/norway-list.html"]Click Here[/url] It has members from all over the US and the world so someone may have access to information that could help. If Ole is still in Ransom county in 1910, it would seem that his mother would be in the area also. She probably married or she may have died before the census. Carla
einarhHi Carla! I have finally discovered that (correct name) Ole Ingvard Johansen was the son of Ingeborg Ottersdatter from Bardu, Troms in Norway and Johannes Olsen from Aremark (Østfold, Norway). Ole Ingvard was born 24 September 1891 and went with his mother by MS Tasso to Hull and further to America in May 1900. Ole Ingvard is found living with Sigrid Anna's family (namely, her son Ole A. Olson) in Northland township, Ransom county ND in 1900 according to census. Experts now say that both he and his mother must have gone further to Canada since there is no trace of them whatsoever in the US. I am now trying to investigate this with the Canadian Genealogy Centre. Carla, the bright one - could you help also? (The genealogy services of Canada are said to be of modest size and detail...)
BriningHi Einar I haven't found anything on Ole I but there are a couple of databases that might help. If they went to Canada, there is a good possibility that they went for the free land. [url="http://www.collectionscanada.ca/archivianet/020111_e.html"]Click Here[/url] for a database of Western Land Grants. This site [url="http://geonames.nrcan.gc.ca/search/coord_e.php"]Click Here[/url] can help you find out where the land is located. There are several Ole Johnson's in the Land Grants database but hard to tell if any is yours. There is also a partial index to the 1911 Canada census [url="http://automatedgenealogy.com/census11/Test4.jsp"]Click Here[/url] It is only partially done and more names are added all the time. So if they were in Canada for that census, you might find him some day. Carla
Rodrigo460
quote:
Originally posted by einarh
Hi Børge,I have identified the roll nos for passenger index and passengers lists respectively and ma
8D Thats the way it is done do you not think so.
einarhI'v sent you a mail regarding Stella Tormoen and her (supposed to be) parents in Adams county, ND. Did you receive it? The challenge is: I have to try and verify that Stella's mother was REALLY Lettie Tingstad, who lived on her father's farm (Severt Olson) in Adams around 1900. Lettie was then married with Paul A. Tingstad and Stella is mentioned as living on the farm and as grandchild of Severt Olson. Have you taken up a new job? Best Einar
einarhHi Carla & Co! Having meticulously gone through the birth records of Digitalarkivet (Nord Trondelag fylke) I note that there is apparently no trace to be found of Paul A. Tingstad, born in Norway 1865 and married to Lettie Olson (Tingstad) in Adams county, according to census of 1900. Problem is: WHERE in Norway was Paul A. Tingstad born - and who were his parents and their descendants in Norway, if any? Best from Einar
HopkinsONLY the 1900 US census listed Paul A. Tingstad as born in 1865 - the 1910 and the 1920 both listed him as born from 1866-1867. But it appears he emigrated at about the age of 13 - so probably with an older family member. The emigration protocol for Trondheim lists a Paul Anton Thingstad leaving from that port on or about 28/4/1880 with an older man and what would appear to be a younger sister.
einarhPaul traveled with his father Johannes Olson from Verdal in Trondelag, Norway. No sister is mentioned, however they left mother, Elen Iversdotter and a brother and a sister (Randine Tingstad) back in Trondheim city, where the family lived at the time. Since then, I hope to spot trhe traces of the brother of Paul Anton and his sister Randine in Norway. I know that Randine was traced as a "fosterdatter" somewhere in the Verdal area (Følke farm) in the then municipal entity Aasen (near Verdal) in Trondelag. Descendants of those "left" in Norway? I'm desperate to know.... Einar
HopkinsYou clearly stated that your question was: "WHERE in Norway was Paul A. Tingstad born - and who were his parents and their descendants in Norway, if any?" - this is direct copy/paste from your posting above dated 24/01/2006 time 11:09:46 The information from the Trondheim emigration protocol CLEARLY lists a younger sister named Josephine - look for yourself -- http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&filnamn=EMITROND&gardpostnr=19145&sokefelt=skjul Just a few hours later in the message same date but time a few hours later you list the family as if you've always known them and suddenly the questions are entirely different. I give up!
einarhDear P. Hopkins, I am terribly sorry for having given you trouble. I have been working on different mailing lists on 24 January and this was my last day home before travelling. Back today. There was a breakthrough as to the members of the Thingstad family in Trondelag on the said day and my last inquiry that day was a follow-up. If all practical things on the 24 had permitted me, I would probably had explained facts about the meantime breakthrough. However I thought that inquiries could be considered separately. Things sometimes move fast as you all know... Only today I learned WHERE Paul actually was born 30 June 1866 - in Vanylven municipality in More and Romsdal county. His family moved to Trondheim while Paul and his father Johannes emigrated. Back in Trondheim was Randine Johannesdatter and Iver Olaus, born in 1863 on Lade farm in South Trondelag. There was one more son, Rudolf, born 1869, but he did not figure in the 1875 census - so he could have died or emigrated. Josefine Emilie emigrated with destination Chicago in 1880 - six years old. It seems that the Thingstad name (with "Th") was from the Tingstad farms (plural) in Levanger a few miles north of Trondheim, but this is to be verified. Johannes Thingstad's wife, Elen Iversdatter was born in neighboring Verdal. It remains to become investigated what was the Thingstad name connection and possible find some descendants - perhaps in Trondheim. Hopkins, I hope you are no longer confused about the Thingstad mysteries.....