Great Grandfather Severin Ludvigson origins?
treeHello, Today is a pretty terrific day. A riddle lasting three generations has been partially solved. The riddle which is now partially solved is that I now know the real name of my Great Grandfather and his parents all from Norway. My Great Grandfather Severin Ludvigson was born in 1879 and imigrated to Michigan USA as a young child sometime between 1882 and 1884. The ole family history only partially matches up with the following information provided by the State of Michigan. According to the state of Michigan, Severin Ludvigson (born 1879) and his sibling Mareusius Ludvigson (born about 1875) were abandoned by their father in Menominee County Michigan and made dependents of the county probate court and committed to the State School in Coldwater Michigan in August of 1884. The State of Michigan records indicate their mother was an inmate of a "Lunatic Asylum" in Norway. The fathers name is listed as Ludwig Matherson. The mothers name is listed as Marin matherson. Severin was indentured to the Graham family in Hope Michigan from 1887 until 1898. While he was never apparently adopted by the Graham family he appears to have taken their name in as much as he was always known as Severin Graham. The riddle which is now partially solved is I now know what Severin's original name was, and the name of his mother and father. Of course there is a great deal to discover which is why I have thrown myslef into this message looking for assistance. Can someone please steer me in the right direction in what I should do now? I would like to discover what ship Severin Ludvigson, his brother, and his father Ludwig Matherson made passage on. I would like to know how I might best find out more about the parents, and where they may have originated. Is there an Idiot's guide to searching for Norwegion relatives somewhere on the web. The entire sirname is a bit different from my english german roots. I have not had a chance to pour over this site, and I hope to do so, I just wanted to start my jorney with relaying my excitment of my Norwegion roots, and my desire to dig deeper. Best regards, tree aka Eric
jwiborgHi, the Lunatic Asylum you're talking about might be the Gaustad asyl in Vestre Aker parish, Akershus, just west of the capital Oslo. Opened 1855 as Norway's first lunatic asylum. The 1865-census shows 269 "lunatic" people living there, but 1865 must be too early to find "Marin" there... Records of inlaids from the 1880's might be available. The list of Emigrants from Kristiania (=Oslo) 1871-1930 shows brothers Severin G. Ludvigsen (11 months old) and Karl A. Ludvigsen (3 years old) going to Stillwater on 09-JUN-1882. It's very strange, 'cause they look to be travelling alone... [B)] Hometown is Sarpsborg, Østfold county. [url="http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&filnamn=emikra1&gardpostnr=55488&merk=55488#ovre"]Link[/url] Jan Peter
TrondThere is a Ludvig Mathisen traveling from [url="http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&filnamn=emikra1&gardpostnr=75580#nedre"]Kristiania/Oslo Sept 22 1883 on the S/S Drammen with destination Stephenson[/url] (?). Traveling with him an Adam Iversen and what looks like his children Marensius Iversen 7, Herman Iversen 5, Severin Iversen 3 and Klara Iversen 1. Maybe this is a coincidence but the age’s fits? They are all from Onsøy, Østfold (County).
treeThank you to both of you for your reply. Trond, I believe you may have solved the riddle. Before Severin & his brother were placed in the State School, they had been placed in a home belonging to Halver Gulbranson of Stephenson Michigan, which according to your information was the destination of the family. The family history relayed to me by my Aunt was as follows: Serverin was the youngest of 7 Children who were left at the Cold Water Michigan state home by their father. They were from Norway. He aledgedly went back to Norway with a promise to return for the children. The mother never made the trip to the United States. Reason Unknown. Reason for Fathers return to Norway is unknown. The father never returned for the children and they were all adopted out to different families. My Aunt relayed to me that she met Severin's sister many years ago at Severin's funeral. Her name was Clara (Klara). Klara, supposedly went back to Norway at some point and met the mother. Some of the above turns out to be true, or at least it would seem so based upon what you have provided. There appear to be numerous siblings, and the father made the journey with the children. Can you please help me with some Norwegian terms? Etternamn - Does this mean Sir name? Sivilstand - What does this mean when there is a small "g" ? Fam. stilling - Does this mean the relation within the family, such as B for brother? Yrke - Does this mean job or profession? What does this mean when there is a "Arb" ? As I look at the ships passenger list, I notice, as you no doubt have, that Severin appears to have a different sir name. instead of Severin Ludvigson as noted by the State of Michigan, I see that it appears to be Severin Iverson. Is it possible that this was because as he and his siblings registered to emigrate that Severin, may have been behind Adam Iverson, and the clerk wrote the worng sir name?. Or does the state of Michigan have it wrong, and maybe Adam Iverson was the father after all? Who is the father? I am confused. What does the term Ny fam.gr. mean? My last question is what is Onso? Is this Oslo? Thank you for the information so far, this is rewarding and exciting beyond measure. We have always had this affection for or Norwegion heritage. Its very nice to be able to matcvh it up with reality. Best regards Eric Horton
jwiborgEtternamn - Surname Sivilstand - marital status, g = gift, ie. married. Fam. stilling - Relation within the family, B = barn, ie. child Yrke - Profession, Arb = Arbeider, ie. worker Ny fam.gr is short for Ny familie gruppe, ie. New Family Group. It means that a new family starts by this position, ie. the person listed above is not a part of this family. Onsø = Onsøy, a former municipality in Østfold county. From 1994 a part of Fredrikstad municipality. Jan Peter
treeThanks Jan, I appreciate the translation. May I please impose upon you further? Linje - is this the Cruise line or company who owns the ship? Skip - is this the name of the Ship? My daughter tells me I should learn norwegian. Do you care to guess about my question as to who the father is in my post above? Thank you again, Eric
TrondThe Steamship Drammen sailed every fortnight from Oslo to Amsterdam. Passengers using this route embarked a lager ship in Amsterdam for America, most with the Holland American Line to New York. There could be a typo error when the police wrote the list or when the list was digitized. Both Ludvig Mathisen and Adam Iversen were married and in the right age for having those children. Ludvig was the one who paid the tickets. Adam (born in Sweden) however was married according to the [url="http://draug.rhd.isv.uit.no/folketellinger/ftliste.aspx?ft=1865&knr=0130&kenr=004&bnr=0079&lnr=000"]census 1865[/url] and had a family in Onsøy. Ludvig was single and living with his mother, a widow. [url="http://draug.rhd.isv.uit.no/folketellinger/ftliste.aspx?ft=1865&knr=0134&kenr=003&bnr=0080&lnr=000"](Census 1865)[/url] Looking up the parish books for Onsøy could be the next way to solve the children’s right surnames.
jwiborgWhat about this marriage record? [:)] Herman Ludvig Mathisen & Maren Kristine Andreasdatter Marriage: 14 SEP 1873 Onso, Østfold, Norway [url="http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/igi/individual_record.asp?recid=500222549066&lds=1®ion=12®ionfriendly=Norway&juris1=&juris2=&juris3=&juris4=®ionfriendly=&juris1friendly=&juris2friendly=&juris3friendly=&juris4friendly="]Click here[/url] .................... Christening record: [url="http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/VR/individual_record.asp?recid=27598940&lds=4®ion=12®ionfriendly=Norway&frompage=99"]Herman Ludvig Mathiasen[/url] Birth: 02 May 1851, Onsøy, Østfold, Norway Christening: 15 Jun 1851, Onsøy, Østfold, Norway Parents: Mathias Larsen & Elen Andrea Hansdatter Jan Peter
treeJan & Trond WOW!!! My mind is spinning too fast. I am dizzy. Thank you for the census links. Ludvig had a brother named Severin. The same name as my Great grandfather. That seems to cement the relationship. Thank you for the possible marriage record. Having Maren's maiden name was more than I could have hoped for. The marriage date looks like a possibility, ....10 years before Ludvig emigrated with the children. 3 years before the first Child. At some point, I will need to find out more about the father, perhaps finding out if he went back to Norway, and lived his life there, or if he somehow died and could not return to the children. I also will want to discover more about the mother Maren. Perhaps some census data after 1883 may shed some light. Thank you again for all of your help. Incidentally, it is 6:31 PM here in Michigan. What time is it where you are at in Norway ? Eric
jwiborgHi, you'll see the local norwegian time at the top of each posting, where is says Posted - date - hr... [:)] Adam Iversen & Elen Sophie Erichsdatter are registered with the following children at LDS: Annette Emilie Adamsdatter, christening: 22 MAY 1861 Skjeberg, Ostfold, Norway Karoline Marie Adamsdatter, christening: 01 JAN 1864 Skjeberg, Ostfold, Norway Carl Johan Adamsen, christening: 14 OCT 1866 Tune, Ostfold, Norway Josephine Augusta Adamsdatter, christening: 13 JUN 1869 Sarpsborg, Ostfold, Norway Selma Ottilie Adamsdatter, christening: 27 OCT 1872 Sarpsborg, Ostfold, Norway The christening records for Onsøy 1877+ are not available at LDS, so it does not look to be possible to find Severin's christening record online. [B)] The solution must be to go to a local LDS center and scan through the christening records manually. It should be "pretty straight forward", when you know the church (Onsøy, Østfold), and years (1877-1881)... [;)] Jan Peter
jwiborgMarentius Mathisen, birth: 25 SEP 1875, christening: 21 NOV 1875, Onso, Ostfold, Norway Parents: Herman Ludvig Mathisen & Maren Kristine Andreasdatter [url="http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/igi/individual_record.asp?recid=500222376063&lds=1®ion=12®ionfriendly=Norway&juris1=&juris2=&juris3=&juris4=®ionfriendly=&juris1friendly=&juris2friendly=&juris3friendly=&juris4friendly="]Click here[/url] [:)] Jan Peter
HopkinsEric - If you've never used the Norwegian church records (or other original resources) that are available on LDS microfilm/microfiche copies then you'll find an excellent article on how to read them in this collection - http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~norway/articles.html
treeThank you Hopkins. I will be sure to review in detail. I think it will be helpful. I still can't get over how much I have been helped so far on this web site. I wish my Aunt were alive to have learned what I have learned. She passed on a year ago November. Makes me wish I would have looked into this a couple years ago. I was unraveling other family histories. She adored her Grandfather Severin. I have many other questions and mysteries to solve, however, I need to collect those questions, and review what I have learned so far, to make sure I move in a positive direction and not waste anyone's time. Some of these answers are to be found here in America. However, I would not beaware of the proper questions were it not for the information I have obtained from Jan & Tron. I need to inquire about Severin's brother Herman. I know from my Aunt that the Sister Klara was married and her married name was Westerdahl. What I would like to find out is if they were official wards of the State of Michigan and indentured or adopted by others, or if they were simply taken in by families in the U.P. of Michigan. I know Klara lived her life in the UP. I of course need to find the Mother Maren Andreasdr, and find out what happened to the father. Best regards, Eric
jwiborgHi Eric, I've quickly searched through the Norwegian 1900-census, but have not found traces after either Herman Ludvig Mathisen or Maren Kristine Andreasdatter... The people at the Gaustad Asylum at the census-1900 are available online, but she's not there.... [B)] However, if you believe she was at an Asylum, Gaustad just outside Oslo would be most likely location. Maybe they [Gaustad hospital] can give you more information if you contact them? Available online is only records of "lunitics" from 1865 and 1900. Jan Peter
TrondThe S/S Drammen left Oslo Sept 22 1983 for Amsterdam or Rotterdam, Holland and arrived there some 3 days later. The average passage times for the Atlantic Ocean in 1883 were 7-8 days. The Steamship W. A. Scholten of Holland American Line departed Rotterdam late September and arrived in New York Oct. 5 1883. This could be the ship, arriving date and port Ludvig and family used in1883.
treeThank you Jan for checking the 1900 census. Aledgedly, the Sister Klara went back to Norway and saw the mother Maren. I have no knowledge, but perhaps her stay at the Asylum, may have been short. If she were there in 1883, perhaps by 1900 she was living a normal life somewhere in the area. Maybe she was there with an illness such as TB or something and not as a "lunatic". Is Gaustad hopsital & Gaustad Asylum the same facility, or located adjacent to each other. Trond, Thank you for the ships reference. I was wondering about the duration of the transatlantic trip. It seems your suggestion of the W.A. Scholten may be the correct one. I have looked and do not see a passnger list on line for that journey. I am not sure where to go for that. You may find it interesting that my Aunt relayed a story that severin relayed to her. He stated when he was on the ship, he was crying a great deal and making a nuisance of himself, because he missed his mother. He said the captain picked him up by the feet held him over the side and threatened to throw him overboard if he did not quiet down. He stated he stoped crying. Who really knows if it was the captain, however it was a very vivid memory for Severin. I wonder if it was on the Drammen or the Holland American line ship? I did look at informaiton on the S/S W.A. Scholten. Facinating! Thanks again, Eric
jwiborgGaustad hospital is the name of the property today. [img]http://www.aker-universitetssykehus.no/psykiatri/annet/Gaustad%20bygn%20brosj%20JB_liten.jpg[/img] It's still being used as a hospital for people with mental health problems, but nowadays without the risk of being lobotomised... [;)] Jan Peter
treeJan, Do you know if the Gaustad Asylum was only a Lunatic Asylum or did it serve multiple functions? What I mean is that in this country we had sanitariums to help treat things such as TB. Do you have any idea if records of patients in the late 1880's are typically available for review? According to the Court record, here in Michigan where Severin became a ward of the state, in 1884............ "Marin Mathinson resides in Norway Europe and is presently an inmate of a Lunatic Asylum in that country" As much as I hate to think so, my guess is that the Father brought the Children here to America, went back to the Mother, and perhaps her condition did not improve or change, and after the Children were deemed abandonded and taken by the State of Michigan, there may have been little point in trying to come back to Michigan to gather the children together to become a family again. The father Ludvig may have resigned himself to what Life had brought. In the long run I am grateful for what he did. I exist because of it. :) Although that does not discount the trials and hardships that he, his wife, and the Children all endured. Best regards, Eric
treeGood afternoon. As a follow-up to this topic, I am attempting to find a source to determine who might be able to confirm if Maren Kristine Andreasdatter (married to husband Herman Ludvig Mathisen) may have been a patient at Gaustad Asyl in 1874. If she was, I am also trying to determine the length of her stay at Gaustad Asyl. You have been so helpful so far, I am hopeful you may be able to continue to do so. My search of the internet brings up web sites entirely in Norwegian. As such I am ignorant as to the full content of the information. I sent the following message to Aker University Hospital which apparently also includes Gaustad Hospital. Good afternoon, I am researching my Great Great Grandmother. Records in America indicate she was an inmate of a Lunatic asylum in Norway. I suspect she may have been a patient at the Gaustad Asyl. Because this facility is part of Gaustad Hospital, and Gaustad Hospital is part of your organization, I am addressing this email to you. I am hopeful you can direct me to a source who might be able to confirm if Maren Kristine Andreasdatter (married to husband Herman Ludvig Mathisen) may have been a patient at Gaustad Asyl in 1874. If so, can you tell me the length of her stay at Gaustad Asyl? Thank you for any help you may be able to offer. I don't know if this is the correct approach. If you could suggest a more appropriate source of these records, which I could work with , I would appreciate it. Thank you in advance. Best regards, Eric
jwiborgHi, As far as I know; Gaustad Asylum was only a Lunatic Asylum. There was a lot sanitariums to treat e.g. TB. in Norway as well, but I don't think TB patients was at Gaustad. Why do you believe she was a patient as early as 1874??? Summary: 1873: Marriage between Herman Ludvig Mathisen & Maren Kristine Andreasdatter 1875: Marentius born 1877: Herman born 1879: Severin born 1883: Herman Ludvig and children Marentius, Herman & Severin emigrating to the US I would not expect Maren Kristine to be at any hospital before ca 1881/1882...? Census 1875 for Gaustad Asylum in Aker parish are available, but not online. Jan Peter
treeHi Jan, You are correct, the date should read 1884 not 1874. Perhaps I am do for a visit to the Asyl. :) I am Sorry for the confusion. My mind was stuck on the wrong decade. The only document indicating Maren was "an inmate of a Lunatic Asylum" is the Michigan court record and that date was 1884. Can you could suggest a more appropriate source of these records covering inmates of the Gaustad Asylum 1884 - 1899. Is there a correct address to send such an inquiry? I know I need to check with the Gaustad Asylum, I just don't know precisely who or where to send it to. As noted in a previous post, I have already been advised Maren is not in the 1900 census. Thanks for catching my mistake. Eric
jwiborgHi, I think you should start by looking up their marriage record, from scanned microfilms at a LDS center. Herman Ludvig Mathisen & Maren Kristine Andreasdatter Marriage: 14 SEP 1873 Onso, Østfold, Norway The original record should include her age, fathers name and possible hometown. That would make it easier to find her in census 1900, if she's still alive. Two possible sources to find her in the 1880's-1890's: Norwegian Census-1885 cover only the main cities in Norway, but Gaustad in Aker parish could be included in the census for Christiania (Oslo). Norwegian Census-1891 should also be checked. The problem with these two census'es are that they are not available online, but some people might have transcribed material at home. You could try to post a direct query at [url="http://www.disnorge.no/slektsforum/viewforum.php?f=2277"]Slektsforum[/url] Slektsforum Forum Index -> Queries -> Oslo -> Oslo, Kristiania og Aker fra 1814 A lot of local genealogists are frequently visiting that Forum. Jan Peter
treeThank you Jan. I am planning on following your advise. I need to contact my local LDS center and have them order the proper records from Salt Lake City. I will try the Slektsforum as well. Thanks again. Eric