Durban South Africa
finebushMy information is that my great great grandfather Ole Olsen (oh this should be fun) born in March 1835 Stavanger married Bertha marie born in November 1836 in Stavanger. both died in Durban, South Africa 27/10/1909 and 02/09/1906 respectively. there were 6 children, some or most ofwhom were born in Norway, some came to south Africa, and others stayed behind. There is a legend that one of the children was born on the ship on the way to South Africa. Children were 1 Martha Raswith(Rostring) stayed in Norway 2 Olaf Berthinius(My great grandfather) brought his parents ,brothers and sisters to SA Born 1868 Stavanger, appears to have died on the same day as his father 27.10.1909?? 3. Ingwall (brother) 4. Gudmand (brother) 5. Ingeborg Christina (Grung) 6. Anna Olaf Berthinius Olsen married Agnes katrina magdalena on 02.04.1902 at Isinganbusi Church Kranskop Natal I would like to find out more details about where this family orignated from and when they came to South Africa. There are a lot of Norwegian descendants in South Africa. From what I understand there was a large 'fishing" community along the south coast of natal. anyone have any further info. Would be really interested and grateful Thank you Carla (what else!!)
jwiborgHi Carla, could this be them in census-1865 for Stavanger, Rogaland? Ole Olsen (31), able seaman Berthe Marie (30) his wife Marthe Serine Olsdatter (3) Sivert Olsen (2) Ingeborg Kistine Olsdatter (1) [url="http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&filnamn=f61103&gardpostnr=565&personpostnr=5718&merk=5718#ovre"]Link[/url] Could this [url="http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&filnamn=f01103&gardpostnr=954&personpostnr=4117&merk=4117#ovre"]Martha Røstvig[/url] in Stavanger be the Martha Raswith (Rostring) you're talking about? [:)] Her husband Lars Røstvig is a missionary on Madagascar at the time of the 1900-census. 4 of their 7 children are born on Madagascar, the rest are born in Stavanger. Jan Peter
jwiborgFrom "GARD OG ÆTT I SOLA s.308", (Farms and families in Sola, Rogaland, page 308): Berta Maria Gudmundson, born 1836, from Sola Norway. Destination Durban. D.T. SIVERT GUDMUNDSON & INGEBORG KRISTINA O. [url="http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&filnamn=STAV&gardpostnr=60002&merk=60002#ovre"]Link[/url] D.T. stands for "datter til" (daughter of), so her parents are Sivert Gudmundson & Ingeborg Kristina Olsdatter! Gard og ætt i Sola. By Sigurd Refheim Publisher: [Stavanger] Sola kommune, 1974 (Farm histories and genealogy) Here is Berta Marie's christening record from 09 OCT 1836: [url="http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/IGI/individual_record.asp?recid=100015453109&lds=1®ion=12®ionfriendly=Norway&frompage=99"]Click here[/url] [url="http://www.sola.kommune.no/lokalhistorie/TanangersMinne/utvandrede-solabuer.htm"]Here[/url] is Berta Maria Sivertsdtr. born 23/9-1836 listed among emigrated people from the Sola area. Destination reads Sør-Afrika (South Africa), married, see page 308. She is listed as coming from farm number 27, cotter's farm # 2, called "Heia II". Main farm is called "Myklebust". Looks like she had a sister named Berta Sivertsdtr., born 4-mar-1834 , also going to S.A., but it could be that this older sister died young. It looks strange to name two daughters Bertha... A possibility is that Bertha b.1834 died as an infant. [url="http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&filnamn=f61124&gardpostnr=39&personpostnr=259&merk=259#ovre"]Here[/url] is her parents in census-1865, living on the Møglebustad (Myklebust) farm. The emigrant registers for Stavanger was lost in a fire in 1929, so this database is a reconstruction based on letters, newspapers and other info. The family looks to have a big naming tradition. Sivert & Ingeborg Kristine are both named after their maternal grandparents. So could this Marthe Serine be named after her paternal grandmother? [:I] Here is a christening record from Stavanger in April 1835, ie. this Ole could be born in March... [:)] Ole, christening: 05 APR 1835, Stavanger, Rogaland Parents: Ole Hansen & Marte Rasmusdr [url="http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/igi/individual_record.asp?recid=100259659738&lds=1®ion=12®ionfriendly=Norway&juris1=Norw9Roga&juris2=Roga&juris3=&juris4=®ionfriendly=&juris1friendly=Rogaland&juris2friendly=&juris3friendly=&juris4friendly="]Link[/url] [url="http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&filnamn=f61126&gardpostnr=569&personpostnr=3909&merk=3909#ovre"]Here[/url] is Ole Hansen Haredal (65) and wife Marthe S. Rasmusdatter (69) in census-1865 for Hetland, Stavanger. Living in Tastad district, same district as Berta Marie's husband claim to be born in! [:)] I bet $100 that the "S" in Marthes name stands for Serine... [;)] Jan Peter
jwiborg4 Grung's christened in St. Olaf Lutheran church, Durban: Agnes K. Grung 1887 St. Olaf Lutheran, Durban Georg J. H. Grung 1889 St. Olaf Lutheran, Durban Olaf Grung 1891 St. Olaf Lutheran, Durban Solveig Grung 1909 St. Olaf Lutheran, Durban [url="http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&filnamn=STOLAF&spraak=n&metanr=137"]Source[/url] Jan Peter
jwiborgHi, just an update on the farm locations. [img]http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/3390/stavanger7na.jpg[/img] Ole Olsen is from the farm Finnastad, christening: 05 APR 1835. Parents: Ole Hansen Haredal & Marte Rasmusdatter His wife Bertha Marie Sivertsdatter (Gudmundson) is from the farm Myklabust, born 23 SEP 1836. Parents: Sivert Gudmundsen & Ingeborg Kirstine Olsdatter. Jan Peter
HopkinsJan Peter - What is the web address or addresses where you find these marvelous maps and the detail maps? I'd like to try to learn how to use the website(s) - I greatly admire the maps.
jwiborgHi Hopkins, well, thank you! [:)] The maps are mostly made from two sources from the Norwegian Mapping Authority; [url="http://www.visveg.no/norguide/"]National Road Database[/url] and [url="http://ngis2.statkart.no/ng2/ng2.html"]Norgesglasset[/url]. However, it's maybe not as straight forward as it may look. The farmnames on the map above are written with a photo application locally on my pc. After editing, the picture was then uploaded to the web through a free image hosting service... [;)] Jan Peter
finebushyou folk are amazing. Aren't computers incredible sources of information. I need to digest all this and will reply asap. Thank you Carla Syme(nee Olsen) XXXXXXX(kisses)
finebushSo Now I would like to make contact with some of my long lost cousins. I met some Norwegian folk in Zanzibar a while ago and they were so very very nice. Is there any possiblitly of contacting anyone who may share my DNA?? Thank you Carla Syme(nee Olsen) XXXXXXX(kisses)
jwiborgHi, there are some people named [url="http://www.gulesider.no/gsi/whiteSearch.do?mode=&linje=1&sort=2&spraak=3&drill=&etter=r%F8stvig+stavanger&x=18&y=14"]Røstvig[/url] and [url="http://www.gulesider.no/gsi/whiteSearch.do?spraak=3&mode=&linje=1&etter=r%F8stvik+stavanger&x=33&y=12&drill=&sort=2"]Røstvik[/url] in the phonebook for Stavanger today. They could be descendants from Olaf Berthinius' sister Marthe Serine, who in census-1900 was married to Lars Røstvig.... [;)] Jan Peter
jwiborgThe Debora Expedition sailed from Bergen on July 19th, 1879 to establish a Norwegian colony on an Indian Ocean atoll called Aldabra. 47 people were onboard, including one single midwife. The organisers endeavoured to find practical and Christian people to create a settlement based on the teachings of the Norwegian preacher Hans Nielsen Hauge (1771 -1824). The expedition was aborted in Madagascar - a few of the participants remained in Madagascar and the rest settled in the British colony of Port Natal (Durban). They were the first group of Norwegian emigrants to settle in Port Natal. The journey took 90 days from Bergen, and two boys were born at sea, one of them named Atlanter..., must be because he was born on the Atlantic sea... Debora arrived Port Natal on November 12th. l879. Passenger list: Captein Tobiassen and wife Mate Berentsen and wife Mate Oftedal A. Olsen and wife I. Iversen and wife O. Höidalsvig and wife J. Finsen and wife K. Bang and wife w 3 children: Amanda, Severin and Knut F. Larsen and wife w 6 children: Petra, Angel, Emil, Sigvart, Ludvig and Karl H. Johnsen and wife w 3 children Sina, Josefine and Karl A Andreassen and wife with three children R. Andersen R. Rasmussen K. Jensen Hesselberg H. Grong (Hans Jacob Elkjær Grung, born Jan. 2, 1858) O. Fosdal E. Eriksen P. Bang E. Ellingsen Widow Egelandsdal Miss Serene Larsen Among the passengers are one [url="http://www.geocities.com/aldabra.geo/NorwegianTextDsByEllingsen.html"]Mr. H. Grong/Grung[/url]... Could he be the origin to the Grung name in Durban...? [;)] [url="http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/6277/DeboraStory.html"]The Debora Story[/url] [img]http://www.geocities.com/aldabra.geo/DeboraRoute.gif[/img] [url="http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/sab/james1.htm"]Lars Jakobsen Røstvig[/url] (1846-1936), was one of Norways first missionares when he arrived at Madagascar in 1874. He and his wife also served at the St. Olaf Lutheran church, Durban for 5 years, and had a boy born there. Outside the church in Hemne, Sør-Trøndelag, Norway, there is a stone monument of this famous man from Hemne. He must be the husband to the girl you know as Martha Raswith. [img]http://hemneslekt.net/headstones/15128.jpg[/img] Lars Røstvig, Pionér på solskinnsøya [ie. Lars Røstvig, a Pioneer on the Sunny Island (Madagascar)] 203 pages, illustrated Published in Stavanger, year unknown Author: parish priest Reidar Bolling (1902-76) This book can be bought at different auction markets on the Net, but I guess the book is in Norwegian... Lars Jakobsen Røstvig is born in Hemne, Sør-Trøndelag, and studied at the evangelistic university in Stavanger 1868-73. I guess that's how he met Martha! So there is a link here, Lars & Martha stayed in Durban for 5 years. Did they emigrate together with your family, or did they go after Martha and husband came back to Norway? Jan Peter
jwiborgHere is one which have some of the same family in his ancestry tree.[:)] [url="http://www.knellef.com/"]Click here[/url] In his tree, he have one "Haakon Røstvig, born 1892 on Madagascar" Haakon's parents: Lars Jakopson (1846-1936) married 1881 with Martha Serine Olsen (1862-....) Lars Jakopson parents: Jakop Steffenson (1821-1853) married 1845 with Maren Larsdatter Romundset (1816-1896) Martha Serine Olsen's parents: Ole Olsen Finnestad (....-1911) and Marie Sivertsen (b.1836 - d. Nærbø, 19 jan 1941) Almost 105 years old! BUT: Something is strange here. The death year and deathplace doesn't match... you have 02/09/1906 and Durban... this one says 19-jan-1941 and Nærbø Norway... Hmmm...[:I] [url="http://home.no/knellef/html/d0001/g0000077.html#I7246"]Link[/url] [url="http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:pIxn3mA8naMJ:home.online.no/~kne11/html/d0002/g0000026.html+%22Marie+Sivertsen%22+1836+1941+n%C3%A6rb%C3%B8&hl=no&gl=no&ct=clnk&cd=1"]link2[/url] "Lars Jakopson" is the same as Lars Jacobsen Røstvig, Martha Serine is your great grandfather Olaf Berthinius' sister! [:)] Howver, I can not see how he is connected to this Haakon, but try to send him a [url="http://www.knellef.com/privat.htm"]mail[/url] Jan Peter
finebushJan Peter, this is fantastically interesting information. After studying all the info I think you are right. Marthe Serine was indeed my great grandfather Olaf Berthinius's sister. You have gone back as far as my great great great grandfather who must have been the Ole Hansen haredal who married Marte serine Rasmusdatter. Their offspring Ole Olsen would have been my great great grandfather. He married the Bertha Marie siversdatter and their offspring included Marthe Serine who married the famous Lars Rostrig. One of her brothers would have been Olaf Berthinius who was my great grandfather. Following that one of Olaf Berthinius offspring was Carl Olaf Olsen, my grandfather, after whom I am named. You would probably not have access to that information as he was, I think born in South Africa. I do not know if they all came out on the same ship together. My info said that the sister Marthe Serine had stayed in Norway. Are there any records of Olaf Berthinius leaving Norway with his parents Ole and Bertha. There seem to be records of the parents leaving but not of that particular son Olaf. The story of a child being born on the ship may indeed have a lot of truth in it although it is still unclear if the child was related to my line of the family?. It took me a while to understand the naming conventions, but I see now that the woman always have their fathers name (first or surname I am not sure?) followed by the word 'datter' as part of their name. How far back do the record go in these databases?. It would be interesting to know as on my maternal side they married into the English Brownings. I have a family tree on that family which goes back to 57 BC and at one time the Chief of the Brunii and his offspring the Bruning founded a colony onthe south side of the Bukkan Ford. In 449 this Viking Bruning sailed to England to assist king Vortigern against the Picts and subsequently settled at Melcombe in Wessex in 453. Probably irrelevant in my current search but interesting nevertheless in that originally part of my maternal side was also connected to Norway.... Is there any way to do further searches for Olaf Berthinius. By the way the strong family naming conventions did indeed continue for a while here to as I have a cousin called Berthinius and as you know I am named after my grandfather. Interesting ..... Rgds Carla
finebushThe date of death that you have for Bertha marie does seem strange. The death date of 1906 would be more realistic for that period in our history as that would have made her about 70 years old. a good age for that time....
jwiborgHi, the two children who were born on the voyage was a son to Mr and Mrs F Larsen and a son to Mr and Mrs Andreassen. So I dont think there was any family of yours on the Debora Expedition in 1879, maybe except of Mr. H. Grung? The reason I mentioned this expedition, was that they were the first Norwegians to settle in Port Natal. So your family should have left after this expedition, ie. after 1879. Mr. Lars Røstvig went to Madagascar in 1874. His future-wife-to-be, Marthe Serine Olsdatter, was then only 12 years old. So I guess they didn't knew each other then. But at some time, probably in the 1870's, Lars came back to Stavanger and met Marthe Serine. A link I saw had their marriage year = 1881. So, maybe your family and Lars & Marthe went to Port Natal in the 1880's? The emigration records from Stavanger are not available any more, they were destroyed in a fire in 1929. But a reconstrution can be found [url="http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&filnamn=STAV&spraak=n&metanr=1536"]here[/url], and Berta Maria Gudmundson, born 1836, from Sola Norway, destination Durban, is listed there. The reason she's been "put back" into the re-build database could be that they knew she emigrated based on farmhistory, letters etc. Her deathdate is wrong, compared to what you have. This could be due to that two different "Marie Sivertsen" have been mixed up. With regards to the naming conventions in Norway prior to ca 1900, every child got their Lastname from their father. If the child was a boy to someone named Ole, his lastname became Olsen, meaning "son of Ole". If it was a girl, she became an Olsdatter, meaning daughter of Ole. Likewise, Sivertsen means "son of Sivert", Sivertsdatter means "daughter of Sivert". This naming convention are still in use on Iceland! [:)] Jan Peter
jwiborgLooks like most of the Røstvig children emigrated to the US: 1904-JUL-04: [url="http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&filnamn=Stav1903&gardpostnr=5111&merk=5111#ovre"]Olaf Røstvig[/url], Student, b. 1885, from Stavanger, dest Illinois 1905-SEP-20: [url="http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&filnamn=Stav1903&gardpostnr=7721&merk=7721#ovre"]Karl Roll Rostvig[/url], Arkitekt, b. 1887, from Stavanger, dest Pencylvanien 1909-AUG-06: [url="http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&filnamn=Stav1903&gardpostnr=13901&merk=13901#ovre"]Lars Røstvig[/url], Elektriker,b. 1890, from Stavanger, dest New York 1920-OCT-27: [url="http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&filnamn=Stav1903&gardpostnr=22677&merk=22677#ovre"]Haakon Røstvig[/url], Kontorchef, b. 1892, from Stavanger, dest New York St. Olaf Lutheran church, Durban, christening records 1885-1935: 1892: Olaf H. Olsen 1895: Julius C. Olson 1898: Olav A. Olsen 1899: Ole C. K. Olsen 1900: Didrik J. Olsen 1903: Ida T. Olsen 1904: Oscar G. Olsen 1906: Sigurd Olsen 1908: Olof K. Olsen 1909: Emma M. Olsen Do you recognize any familiar Olsen's? [;)] I just found out that Lars & Marthe Serine married on Madagascar! So how did they meet??? Did they meet in Port Natal?? She must have been too young to follow him when he went to this sunny Island in 1874... [:I] Lars Jakopson Røstvig Born: 17 aug 1846, Svaberget, Røstvik, Hemne, Sør-Trøndelag, Norway Dead: 18 feb 1936, Trondheim, Sør-Trøndelag, Norway Parents: Jakop Steffenson & Maren Larsdatter Romundset Wife: Martha Serine Olsen Marrage: 14 apr 1881, Tulear, Madagaskar Children: Jacob Røstvig Olaf Røstvig Karl Røstvig Lars Røstvig Haakon Røstvig Kristian Røstvig Marie Røstvig Jan Peter
finebushYes, Olaf K. (my grandfather) and Emma M. His siter. He was born 08.09.07 Durban SA, and died 15.01.1955 in Salisbury Rhodesia. He built a boiler factory business in Salisbury that was very successful. His sister Emma J. was born 01.09.1909 and died in Joburg date unknown. Olaf K. Married Agnes Nora(rosseau) . the children from this union were Berthinius Carl Lionel (my father) Magda Agnes Bonny Olga It would be assumed that the forefathers did leave Norway at a later date after the Deborah expedition. It is a pity that the records have been destoryed in the fire as I think that therein would be the answer. However there is the record of Berthat Marie from the Sola district leaving for SA. I have looked at this link but cannot see a date that she left??. That would pprobably be the year in which they sailed. I only have the names of 6 children from the union of Ole Olsen and Bertha Marie, it is possible that there were more and it is still possible that there was s child born on that trip although I think that at that stage Ole Olsen and his wife would have been too old to be producing children. I have e-mailed a "grung" whol posted a letter on the Deborah expedition website you linked me to. He had requested a family tree for the South African part of his family. but this request was back in 2003 so hope I get a reply from him. Bye for now Carla
finebushI have located the death certificate for Olaf Berthinius Olsen. On it it states that he was born in Norway. On another document, an attempt at a family history, it states his birthdate as 1868. He died at Addington hospital in Durban on 27.10.1909. He was 41 year old. The death date that I had for his father Ole Olsen was incorrect, he died on 16.08.1911. This is confirmed on one of the links you have given me. He was 76 years old and so outlived his son. On one of my documents it states that Olaf Berthinius brought his parents and brothers and sisters to S.Africa. It also says he was a nautical engineer although on his death certificate, his occupation is listed as a Machine man. If he brought his parent s and siblings to South Africa, I think he would have been a mature young man by that time so if he was in his mid twenties to thirties it would have been in the period 1888 - 1898, that they may have come to Natal. Is there anywhere I can search for Olaf Berthinius's birth records if we now have a birth date of 1868. I see too that Olaf Berthinius died one month after his daughter Emma Mary was born. how sad... The mother Agnes Katrina moved to Johannesburg and re-married a Jacobson, a Russian Jew in 1911. Thats all the further information I have. Do you do this investigative work as a hobby or full time?? Thanks for all your help, it really is very interesting, I just wish I could read Norwegian!! Rgds Carla