Looking for information on Sigurd Gautesson

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Topic:

Topic author: sabingd
Subject: Looking for information on Sigurd Gautesson
Posted on: 21/01/2015 04:50:53
Message:

Looking for information on the wife and children of Sigurd Gautesson
Birth Bef. 1375 in Norway Death Aft. 1416

Replies:

Reply author: Hopkins
Replied on: 21/01/2015 12:32:29
Message:

Are you asking about Sigurd Gautesen who was connected to the Torsnes farm in Jondal, in what is now Hordaland?

Church records for Jondal are only existing for years as early as circa 1670.

Have you checked the books “Jondal i gamal og ny tid”, 2 volumes by Olav Kolltveit? (Available on microfilm through the Salt Lake City Family History Library.)

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 21/01/2015 14:13:40
Message:

Descendants in Norway after the Gautesson/Galte Family use lastname Galtung.

The Galte Family is mentioned in many pages and document online, most in Norwegian.
Here is a family tree on Sigurd Gauteson Galte (Hog) on Torsnes link
Occ. "Fehirde" Treasurer in Tønsberg, treasurer in Bergen, Knight and Noble man

In a document written on Talgje April 18.1407 7 generations on Torsnes are mentioned, the doc. is wrtitten on old Norse, the names of the 7 goes like this;

"ollum monnum peim sem.... All men who see or hear this letter.....those mentioned here has ovned Torsnes one after the other: Viking on Torsnes (lived in the 1100s), his daughter Inga, her son Guttorm Kalvsson, his son Sigurd Guttormsson, his son Guttorm Sigurdson, his son Sigurd Guttormsson, his two sons Guttorm and Baard Sigurdsson.

Farm Torsnes, photo by genealogist Elin Galtung Lihaug link
This farm has belonged to the same family from 1100s until today.
Glass paintings on Torsnes from ca 1636 link preserved when the main building was demolished 1825.

Kåre

Reply author: AntonH
Replied on: 21/01/2015 17:28:37
Message:

Also see the website of Per Nermo

http://nermo.org/slekt/d0045/g0000048.html#I8097

Reply author: AntonH
Replied on: 21/01/2015 17:37:00
Message:

One of the best sources for good information on ancient Norwegian families can be found in the CD sold by Odd Handegård. It is called "Vår felles slektshistorie" and is well documented and well respected. Here is a link to his website.

http://www.valeforlag.no/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=5&Itemid=4

Chapter six in his "Book on a CD" covers the "Galt eller Galtulng " family in 55 pages.

In a table titled "Etterkommer etter Gaut på Orsnes" Odd lists Sigurd Gautson Galte 1200 as married to Sigurd?.

He lists two children

Eirik Sigurdson Galte 1300

and Gaute Sigurdson (Voss?)

His sources are Steinnes (1968), Løberg (2000), and Ugulen.

These are articles by well respected Norwegian genealogists. Any information beyond what is found in Handegårds book should be treated as somewhat speculative.

Reply author: sabingd
Replied on: 23/01/2015 01:05:15
Message:

Thank you to the work all of you have done. I hope this information will help out.

I have taken the DNA test and my family tree is linked to Sigurd Gautesson Birth Bef. 1375 in Norway Death Aft. 1416. The tree I am linked to shows Sigard's father as, Gaut Unge Gautssøn, av Mel and Sigurd's wife as N.N. Baardsdtr Birth in Norheim, Kvam, Norway and Death unknown. One of their children is Bård Sigurdsson, birth1410 in Torsnes. Bard was married to Gyrid Torbergsdatter
Birth1432. Two of their children were, Gyrid Bårdsdatter Birth in Torsnes and Herborg Bårdsdatter Birth? Death?

The DNA match shows my connection to Sigurd Gautesson on a matching DNA to my 2nd great granfather Daniel Andersen Loen or (possibly Daniel Andersen Loen Rake), born and died in Norway. My 2nd great grand mother and spouce of Daniel, was Gjertrud Elisabeth Arntsdatter Rake, Birth1815 in Innvik, Sogn og Fjordane, Norway.

The DNA connection possibly comes through Daniels mother who is, Davidsdtr Mindre Sunde. The most common Norwegian area for the people in my tree is, Innvik, Sogn og Fjordane, Norway.

Now for the motivation behind this search. The matching DNA tree goes back to King of Norway Håkon IV the Elder Håkonson
Birth1204 in Folkinsberg, Eidsberg, Ostfold, Norway Death16 Dec 1263 in Kirkwall, Orkney Islands, Scotland I hoping to either varify or rule this connection out.

Reply author: sabingd
Replied on: 23/01/2015 01:09:45
Message:

Lindl 40:

Is the book you referred to available in english?

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 23/01/2015 17:38:20
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by sabingd

Now for the motivation behind this search. The matching DNA tree goes back to King of Norway Håkon IV the Elder Håkonson
Birth1204 in Folkinsberg, Eidsberg, Ostfold, Norway Death16 Dec 1263 in Kirkwall, Orkney Islands, Scotland I hoping to either varify or rule this connection out.

---

Reply author: sabingd
Replied on: 23/01/2015 22:30:40
Message:

Thank you.

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 23/01/2015 22:49:54
Message:

This topic in English has the same conclusion reg. Joronn Sigurdsdatter.
The owner of this familytree has done a great research.

Perhaps genealogists and historians come to a final conclusion one day.

Gaut Jonsson Mel, Lendmann (the highest ranked in the kings guard) in 1217, participated in the civil war against the Ribbung Party 1222 and Sysselmann (the kings Public advocate) and king Håkon IV Håkonssons advicer for many years
Gaut Jonsson carried the coronation-sword when Prince Magnus married Princess Ingeborg in Bergen autumn 1261.
Gaut Jonsson died 1270.

Source; "Norsk Biografisk Leksikon" Norwegian Biographical Encyclopedia Link

Kåre

Reply author: AntonH
Replied on: 24/01/2015 01:47:52
Message:

quote:

---

Lindl 40:

Is the book you referred to available in english?

---

Reply author: sabingd
Replied on: 24/01/2015 05:18:53
Message:

This is all very interesting. I will check to see if I can get the books.

Reply author: AntonH
Replied on: 24/01/2015 18:08:21
Message:

If you are interested in pursuing family trees of ancient norwegian families, it is good to have a much help as you can get. For example, in the Charles Arendts tree linked above he lists the wife of Sigurd Gautesson as Ellen Taraldsdatter Kane. There is some disagreement among professional Norwegain Genealogists about the validity of that.

Here is what Henrik Lunde has to say:

"Magnus Mardal, on the other hand believes that Toralde Sigurdson was the son of the royal treasurer Sigurd Gauteson, the son of Baron Gaute Gauteson of Hatteberg. He is also of the opinion tht there is a connection to the Kane family. The hypothetical relationship he suggests is that the royal treasurer Sigrd Gauteson was married to a sister of Gunnar Toraldeson, (my add here ie Ellen Toraldsdtr Kane}, another royal treasurer. Tore Vigerust on the other hand characterizes the claim that Toralde Sigurdson was related to the Kane or Mel families as being without foundation without giving any detailed reason for his view."

The key words in any discussion of ancient norwegian families is "hypothetical", "without foundation" , and "no proof". All of these issues are argued out in the scholarly publicaton "Norsk Slektshistorik Tidskrif" Even if one can read Norwegian it is a tough slog to understand the arguements. What a book like Henriks does is present these arguements, gives his opinion on some of the issues but in the end leaves it up to the reader to determine if there is enough weight on one side to allow one to construct a family tree. But you can then undestand how shaky the tree is that you are constructing.

I might add here that Tore Vigerust was before his recent death, the most preeminet Norwegian Geneologist of his time and to have him arguing against your conclusions was not a good place to be.

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 25/01/2015 22:30:44
Message:

Gunnar Toraldsen Kane is supposed to be the forefather of the Kane genuis in Norway and must not be mixed with his grandson with the same name. I can not confirm this this Family tree.
Source reg. Gunnar Toraldesn Kane; Tore Vigerust

Today Kane is an extinct Norwegian noble Family, the last Kane (male line) was "Lensherre" (the kings Seignory) Arild/Arald Kane who was killed by farmers on a meeting on Sunnmøre 1396. He was married to Ingerd Erlendsdatter from the Losna Family.

1398 the farmers were judged to pay large fines.

Kåre

Reply author: JaneC
Replied on: 26/01/2015 01:12:28
Message:

from lyndal40: "You can then understand how shaky the tree is that you are constructing."

sabingd, you have recently posted two queries that kick start with information peeled off someone else's online family tree and in those two cases you did not provide sources (same as here- you ask the forum to "trust you" that a certain person existed). This does not reflect a serious / scholarly research approach. Also in those two cases your information was seriously flawed, and you did not seem to understand that it was flawed, despite the forum's effort to explain. I have no quarrel with that history - as you've consulted an excellent resource (this forum) as you learn and grow in this genealogy endeavor.

But, I do advise that you view family trees online only as a source of "maybe" information. Here you've jumped straight back to the 1300s despite that it's clear you aren't (yet!) proficient enough to have verified a genealogy stretching from you/yours back in time, in Norway, so far.

Thus the forum is not saying anyone discussed in this thread is in any way related to you.

In yet another, earlier thread, you asked "What do the names mean," on the far right in a baptismal record. No one answered that question - it got overlooked somehow. Now, there's a question worth asking - one that DOES pertain to your genealogy. Those names are baptismal sponsors (godparents), who can be family, friends, or neighbors of the child's parents.

Perhaps somehow you've arrived accurately in the 1300s in Norway, with an accurate and verifiable paper trail, and the subject of this query is indeed related to you. That might be true - or not. The evidence is not in, as far as the forum is concerned. If you share the source of your information - the forum would be in a better position to judge. Sharing the SOURCE of information is not optional. It is a requirement in any research endeavor, in any field.

As for the DNA connection, as I understand it, the DNA trail you cite jumps from male to female and cannot be definitive without an accompanying paper trail. Sigurd Gauteson is listed in an available family tree but your own ancestor might be another individual who doesn't happen to appear on a family tree on the particular website you used (but don't name).

In future, when posing questions that grow out of a perusal of someone's family tree, I suggest you state the name of the tree and where it can be accessed - or even better, post a link to it. Let the forum help you verify your connection to the tree, and track the genealogy back in appropriate fashion (one generation at a time).

Discussing Norwegians who lived at the edge of genealogical time is fine, and I find the forum comments VERY interesting and enjoyable to read. The caution I'm offering is that you not misconstrue this discussion as a verification that this is your family. The forum doesn't know that, is not asserting that.

Shortcuts are tempting, but sometimes people get lost when using a shortcut. To follow a "map," to your own heritage, map reading skills are vital (like knowing how to interpret a baptism record). When those skills are lacking, a skilled navigator can help, but only if you clarify where you're starting from.

Sorry...

Reply author: AntonH
Replied on: 26/01/2015 01:48:42
Message:

A cautionary note on tracing your family back in time to various old Norwegain Royalty was raised some years ago by Lars Løberg. It bears reading.

http://www.rogalandslag.org/Files/Kings&Queens910227.pdf

One thing we can take from the article of Lar's is this paragraph.

"A very interesting discussion took place in Norwegian
newspapers, mainly in the Dagbladet, from November
1989 to January 1990. More than 40 articles were
published, and the topic of the discussion was whether or
not it is possible to trace one's ancestors back to the kings
and vikings. Even though there were different opinions,
the conclusion seemed to be that with a couple of
exceptions this was not possible, at least not scientifically
provable"

Reply author: sabingd
Replied on: 27/01/2015 04:40:16
Message:

Your comments are noted and very well taken. In the future I will take more effort to double check my findings. It is not my intention to take advantage of the work you do and the information you share. I will be more careful in the future.

Reply author: JaneC
Replied on: 27/01/2015 13:45:09
Message:

Apologies, Gloria/Dave, if I implied in any way that anyone has "taken advantage of" the forum. To the contrary, I wrote, "Let the forum help you..." I have no doubt the forum appreciates and enjoys the questions you've brought forward.

Back to delete longer remark. Point was the need for you to bring here the trail from you to Sigurd before the forum can answer your question: Am I descended from Sigurd's ancestors?

Reply author: sabingd
Replied on: 27/01/2015 18:15:12
Message:

Thank you for the time you took to clarify this. I think I was doing ok for a while last month by delving into the information of the first four gennerations. Then after the DNA test and matches came out, I started pulling up more and more trees with all this royalty and I think I became star struck leaving well grounded research behind.

I have gone back through some of these trees and I will take them with a grain of salt in the future.

Thank you again.

Reply author: sabingd
Replied on: 27/01/2015 18:20:55
Message:

I will end this thread. Time for me to get back to work and leave the kings for another day.

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 29/01/2015 08:30:20
Message:

You are welcome back.
I have more info on the Gaute/Gautesson Family.

Kåre

Reply author: sabingd
Replied on: 01/02/2015 20:48:27
Message:

I am still open to any information on the family.

Reply author: JaneC
Replied on: 01/02/2015 23:10:54
Message:

Ok, maybe one of your ancestors is this man memorialized on Find-a-Grave:

Thr following is according to Find-a-Grave.
Andrew (Anders) Danielson Rake
Born 22 July 1837 "born at Loen farm in Styrn, Sogn og Fjordane"
Died 21 July 1906 Winnebago county, Iowa, USA.
Notes: Married 1871 Elisabeth Brekke. Emigrated together from Bergen 17 May 1871 on the Argo.
(Passenger list available on this website.)
Anders's parents are said to be the great-great grandparents you mention on page 1, so maybe you have all the documentation for Anders?


Back in an edit: See below; Anders was not born in Stryn.

Reply author: JaneC
Replied on: 01/02/2015 23:18:55
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by sabingd

.... my 2nd great granfather Daniel Andersen Loen or (possibly Daniel Andersen Loen Rake), born and died in Norway. My 2nd great grand mother and spouce of Daniel, was Gjertrud Elisabeth Arntsdatter Rake, Birth 1815 in Innvik, Sogn og Fjordane, Norway....Daniels mother who is, Davidsdtr Mindre Sunde.

---

Reply author: sabingd
Replied on: 03/02/2015 01:39:06
Message:

Thank you Jane. I will go over this and get back to you.

Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 03/02/2015 13:07:31
Message:

Anders Danielsen was born out of wedlock. The parents were married Jan 6 1840, see #4.
They were married in Olden church.

Anders father, Daniel Andersen, was baptized Nov 26 1809, see #15.
His parents were Anders Marcussen and Ingebor Davidsdatter, Loen.

Anders and his wife, Anders parents and siblings in 1801.

Anders Marcussens parents, Marchus Andersen, Hatlem and Birthe Simonsdatter, Loen was married Nov 6 1768, see 7th couple from bottom of left page.

Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 03/02/2015 13:16:33
Message:

Elisabeth Lassesdatters parents, Lasse Johnsen, Brecke and Barbro Aamundsdatter, Glomnæs, were married Nov 23 1830, see #286.

Lasse was baptized January 12 1806, see #2 right page.
His parents listed as John and Anna Brekke.
John Lassesen, Brekke, his parents and siblings in 1801.

John Lassesens parents Lasse Jørgensen, Østre Mo and Susanna Jonsdatter, Brecke, were married Jan 6 1773, 3rd couple from bottom of 1772.

John Lassesen and Anna Knudsdatter were married April 1 1804, see 5th couple on left page.
Anna Knudsdatter, her mother and stepfather and her siblings in 1801.

Reply author: AntonH
Replied on: 03/02/2015 16:45:05
Message:

sabingd,

I wonder if you are aware of this family tree on Geni.com

Daniel Andersen Loen
Place of Burial: Loen, Stryn, Sogn og Fjordane, Norway
Birth: 1809
Stryn, Sogn og Fjordane, Norway
Death: February 12, 1894 (85)
Innvik, Sogn og Fjordane, Norway

http://www.geni.com/people/Daniel-Loen/6000000012724597487

I followed one of the family lines of this person on the Geni.com web site back to
Audun Hestakorn Hugleiksson Hegranes born about 1240 and reputed to be part of the Smør and Bolt families. Both Medieval Royal Norwegian famiies.

http://www.geni.com/people/Audun-Hegranes/6000000013218194589

One needs to check the family lines carefully and especially be wary of lines extending back beyond 1500. But they can provide much information and links to people related to you.

Reply author: AntonH
Replied on: 03/02/2015 17:12:05
Message:

The Geni.com family tree linked above is managed by a Jahn Harald Loen. It has been added onto by a Daniel Jon Winkel and includes

Andrew Danielsen Loen Rake
Birth: July 22, 1837
Stryn, Sogn og Fjordane, Norway
Death: 1900 (63)
Lincoln, Winnebago, Iowa, United States

One interesting side note. I am a member of Geni.com and as a useful tool it automatically informs me if I am releated to the person that I am looking at. Geni.com has informed me that

Andrew Danielsen Loen Rake is my 18th cousin once removed. So it is true that almost everyone born in Norway is related to one another.

Reply author: sabingd
Replied on: 04/02/2015 04:47:17
Message:

Lyndal40

I have to admit that I have never used Geni.com and I don't know how to get around in it. So when you mentioned Audun Hestakorn Hugleiksson Hegranes, I find I am having difficulty understanding what you are telling me. Is it that Audun is related to Andrew Danelsen Leon Rake, or does your link refer to how I can get misled by information. Please clarify this for me. Thank you.

Reply author: JaneC
Replied on: 04/02/2015 15:13:16
Message:

Hi sabingd, lyndal40 will no doubt return to answer, but meanwhile may I suggest he is just announcing that GENI has a public family tree that includes your ancestor Andrew Danielson Rake. He didn't point to any errors; the tree may or may not have errors. He didn't say "This tree needs to be verified" because that point has already been made. Reason I stressed it is you seemed to continue to trust trees despite some bad run ins with them in this forum and despite that warnings had been raised. Trees are very tempting! We've all posted links to them, or cited them. After all, a tree might be correct - it's just that any tree needs to be checked out.

I'll return later and delete this whole post. It is of a temporary nature.

Eibache started on the road to original, valid research of the ancestors of Andrew D Rake - which is what needs be done - and I hope you'll return to confirm you noticed that. Not noticing is kind of like holding up a stop sign. Normally we stick to posting genealogy facts or genealogy process recommendations, nothing personal - but may I say you personally have the persistence and tenacity and interest level that can lead to creating a really excellent genealogy to give your family. Your next step in that direction is to discover the Aha! fun of finding and understanding actual, original records and seeing in them the mirror of those who are "yours."

Remember the birth record for Hilda/Cleo was posted? It gave her mother's surname, and Cleo's death record also gave her mother's surname. Yet you seemed not to know who Hilda's mother was. So apparently you did not engage with the birth record posted for you. Maybe you looked at it but couldn't decipher it. It is important to decipher the old handwritten records, and if you had asked for help deciphering, you probably would have gotten help with it. But for SURE you would get respect for the question - showing that you read the record and tried to understand it is serious genealogy.

Then when you read the transcription of Hilda's emigration record, you clearly engaged, powerfully! with that record. And therein lies some of why many people like to do their own genealogies (with some help) rather than hire a professional. This thrill of a personal encounter with our ancestors is lost to us when we distance ourselves by plucking a name and date off a tree.

I would guess that trees are more "in your comfort zone" and antique Norwegian records are not. That's true for 99.9999999% of people, after all! But the forum contributors love a project - love to help. And as you engage with the records, dip into those unfamiliar waters, the more you will acclimate. A newly expanded comfort zone is formed. The tree fascination has slowed that progress, which was true for me too, and I know many others say the same. All that is understandable. I just encourage though that you notice, wow! eibache posted original records I've not seen! Then you examine and ask questions about those records (if you have any). You yourself need to understand each move on the genealogy ladder, and someone here will probably have answers to any questions. Bear in mind: if everybody in this world thoroughly understood Norwegian genealogy, this forum and this hobby (the hobby of doing volunteer genealogy for others) would be extinct.

So, I would hope we would turn attention to eibache's research, and cross fingers we can continue to build on it. Research in these early records is not my area, but I'll be learning as I read along.

Reply author: AntonH
Replied on: 04/02/2015 17:30:41
Message:

quote:

---

So when you mentioned Audun Hestakorn Hugleiksson Hegranes, I find I am having difficulty understanding what you are telling me. Is it that Audun is related to Andrew Danelsen Leon Rake, or does your link refer to how I can get misled by information

---

Reply author: JaneC
Replied on: 04/02/2015 21:17:57
Message:

Well said. ;-)

Reply author: AntonH
Replied on: 04/02/2015 23:45:40
Message:

In my last post I mentioned using Bygebøker as a good source for following your ancestors back in time. Here is an excellent article with many links on Bygdebøker and how to use them.

http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~norway/bygdebok.html

Here is a link to a basic Norwegian dictionary with a lot of genealogical terms.

http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~norway/na17.html

And if you want a good Norwegian to English dictionary you can visit Amazon and purchase the one by Einar Haugen.

Reply author: sabingd
Replied on: 05/02/2015 04:09:22
Message:

eibache:

Thank you for the information on Anders Danielsen Rake. The information is filling numerous gaps in my records. Thank you for the time you spent putting this together.

In fact, I would like to thank everyone for the information I have received. I often feel like I am not catching on to the steep learning curve as quickly as I would like, but at the same time I feel like I have learned so much from all of you. I will do all I can to make the most of the work you are doing to help me out.

Reply author: AntonH
Replied on: 05/02/2015 04:22:35
Message:

Since the Geni.com search I mentioned earlier showed us to be cousins, I wanted to explore that further. I started on my side of the family tree since I know that side best. In my Family Tree not on Geni.com I had stopped at a Jørgen Mogens Høgelit since the Bygdebok I was using stopped at that person. The Bygdebok I was using was Birkenes Ætt Og Odel by Johan Tveite. Birkenes being a parish within the Vest-Agder County.

Here is a link to that same person on the Geni.com tree.

http://www.geni.com/people/J%C3%B8rgen-H%C3%B8igilt/6000000006589171043?through=6000000006420968961

Location plays an important part in my evaluation of the information. If you tell me that you have found an ancestor of mine and he lived in either Aust-Agder or Vest-Agder County (Fylke in Norwegian but more like a small state in the US, think West Virginia), I would likely believe you as I have had ancestors there for at least 500 years. . If you said either Telemark or Rogaland two neighboring Counties, I would give you the benefit of the doubt since I have a few ancestors from those Counties. If you named other Counties further away I would be sceptical.

Anyway the Geni.com tree has as his mother Åse Jensdatter Stausland and as her father

Jens Bentsen Stausland
Birth: circa 1505
Lagmannsgården Holmegård, Holum, Mandal, Vest-Agder, Norway
Death: circa 1552 (47)
Stausland, Søgne, Vest-Agder, Norway

And his father as

Bent Henningsson Fuskeland (Blaker) MP
Birth: 1470
Blaker, Lom
Death: 1532 (62)
Høllen, Søgne, Vest-Agder, Norway (Drept

I am still comfortable with this line up to this point because they have stayed in my usual geographaical area of the Agder Region of Norway. however in the next generation we run into problems. The Geni.com tree lists Bents father as

Henning Guttormsen Munk (Blaker) MP
Birth: circa 1427
Blaker, Gudbrandsdalen
Death: circa 1484 (57)
Lom, Oppland, Norge

When I see the birth place listed as Gudbrandsdalen and the death place listed as Oppland, alarm bells go off in my head. These are areas ie Gudbrandsdalen or Counties ie Oppland quite a long ways from the area where I usually find my ancestors. People do move around in Norway even in ancient times but usually not very far.

Fortunately one of the Geni.com watch dogs a Curator Anne M Berge has stepped in and in Norwegian has posted at the top of the page for Bent Henningsson Fuskeland (Blaker) MP the following message. Translanted into English by me, correctly I hope.

"Hardly the son of Henning Guttormsen Munch - if anyone has sources for this, enter your profile page and tell your profile administrator."

Another warning, that Anne M Berge a respected Norwegian genealogist also does not believe this leap.

Here is a link to the page in Geni.com for Bent, so you can examine how this works.

http://www.geni.com/people/Bent-Henningsson-Lagmann/6000000006589092511?through=6000000006420968961

So in the end we are not likely cousins and a good example of how once past the 1500 year mark things can and usually go wrong.

Reply author: sabingd
Replied on: 05/02/2015 04:32:11
Message:

eibache:

Thank you for the information on Anders Danielsen Rake. The information is filling numerous gaps in my records. Thank you for the time you spent putting this together.

In fact, I would like to thank everyone for the information I have received. I often feel like I am not catching on to the steep learning curve as quickly as I would like, but at the same time I feel like I have learned so much from all of you. I will do all I can to make the most of the work you are doing to help me out.

Reply author: sabingd
Replied on: 05/02/2015 09:19:30
Message:

I must tell you that I began taking a deeper look at eibache's inforamation and followed the link to Geni.com. I believe this is finally sinking in and I began to realize how much I was takeing from other trees with no effort on my part to farivy the information. You are making me that much more determined to do this correctly and I am starting to enter events and facts that I had in the past, felt as though they were not important enough to enter into the history. I held off on this work of filling in the history because I was so intent on moving through the tree as fast as I could. That was a bad Idea and I am putting the brakes on it.
Arent Daniel Rake of Winnebago county, Minnesota was my grand father. His wife was Petra A. Holms. Petra's surname was Holon. When the family lived in Lake Ibsen, Benson, North Dakota. But it was rummered that her fathe John Holon set out for Alaska and never retured. The only thing that makes me believe it is true is that a census suddenly shows Petra's mother as a head of the household and they had changed their name to Holms. What great stories I have missed out on for the sake rushin to the past. I will be consintrating on my grand father and great grand futher for the rest of the week but I will be checking in soon. So if you come up with anything new, I would love to hear about it.

Dave

Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 05/02/2015 09:32:32
Message:

sabingd,
you are welcome, always glad to be of help.
Please also note that I have corrected som mistakes in my earlier postings.

Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 05/02/2015 10:14:07
Message:

John Lassesens wife Anna Knudsdatter was baptized Febr 11 1776, see 13th record on right page.
Her parents were Knud Zachariasen and Pernille Larsdatter, Grow.

Knud Zachariasen, Grow and Pernille Larsdatter, Glomnæs were married May 25 1775, see 3rd couple in 1775.

Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 05/02/2015 10:28:17
Message:

Anders Marcusen, Loen and Ingebor Davidsdatter, Murri were married June 22 1800, see 6th couple on right page.

Ingebor Davidsdatter was baptized Aug 23 1772, see 4th record from bottom of right page.
Her parents were David Danielsen and Siri Jonsdatter, Murri.

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 05/02/2015 22:04:01
Message:

quote:

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Originally posted by sabingd

I must tell you that I began taking a deeper look at eibache's inforamation and followed the link to Geni.com. I believe this is finally sinking in and I began to realize how much I was takeing from other trees with no effort on my part to farivy the information. You are making me that much more determined to do this correctly and I am starting to enter events and facts that I had in the past, felt as though they were not important enough to enter into the history. I held off on this work of filling in the history because I was so intent on moving through the tree as fast as I could. That was a bad Idea and I am putting the brakes on it.
Arent Daniel Rake of Winnebago county, Minnesota was my grand father. His wife was Petra A. Holms. Petra's surname was Holon. When the family lived in Lake Ibsen, Benson, North Dakota. But it was rummered that her fathe John Holon set out for Alaska and never retured. The only thing that makes me believe it is true is that a census suddenly shows Petra's mother as a head of the household and they had changed their name to Holms. What great stories I have missed out on for the sake rushin to the past. I will be consintrating on my grand father and great grand futher for the rest of the week but I will be checking in soon. So if you come up with anything new, I would love to hear about it.

Dave

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Reply author: sabingd
Replied on: 05/02/2015 22:41:46
Message:

Once I know what is written, (for example, Ingebor Davidsdatter), I can then sort of make it out. I am totally amazed that you can even locate it in the first place.

In the second line of Anders Marcusen, Loen and Ingebor Davidsdatter, Murri Marrage. I think I see Margre Rassmuson Loen og and Erick Ibo. Am I even close on that? These records are so tough to read but I will try.

Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 05/02/2015 23:17:38
Message:

quote:

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In the second line of Anders Marcusen, Loen and Ingebor Davidsdatter, Murri Marrage. I think I see Margre Rassmuson Loen og and Erick Ibo. Am I even close on that? These records are so tough to read but I will try.

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Reply author: sabingd
Replied on: 06/02/2015 04:13:16
Message:

Thank you. Even just being close is encouraging.

Reply author: AntonH
Replied on: 07/02/2015 00:01:26
Message:

Earlier I mentioned the use of Bygdebøker as a source of information on families. A Bygdebok usually consists of mostly farm histories.Although some Bygdebøker give a lot of family information includiing farm owners, wives, children and their wives as well as dates for births, marriages and deaths. Others only give the basic informaton and focus on the ownership of the farm. The bygdebok that covers your area gives only the basic information. For your family the Bygdebok is for Innvik parish, Loen farm. The informaton is found in this Bygdebok.

Aaland, Jacob. Nordfjord frå gamle dagar til no, v. 3B 1974 DL576.N6 A4 Farms Olden, Innvik & Utvik parishes; Reprint. The University of Minnesota, Wilson Library has a copy. I was there today doing some of my own work so I gave it a quick look.

The first member of your ancestors listed on the Loen farm is listed on No. 1. Eiriksbr. (ie the part of Loen known as Eriks farm )

Jacob Simensen Haugen died 47 years old, buried in 1709, probably came to the Loen farm in 1700. First wife was name Anne, Second wife was named Brite Magnesdatter Tjugen.

For Jacobs son a second farm on Loen was broken off and called No. 2 Markusbr. And the first owner was

Simon Jacobson Loen died 59 years old buried in 1767 born 1733 (probably a calculated year). married to Anne Salvedatter Sande

Here is a link to the death record for Simon Jacobsen Loen, Lower left page 15 March in the year 1767.

http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=11506&idx_id=11506&uid=ny&idx_side=-231

Simon and Anne had daughter Brite Simensdtr Loen died at 78 and buried 1819. She married Markus Andersson Hatl. (probably the farm Hatledd).

Here is a link to her death record, right page see number 4

http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=11508&idx_id=11508&uid=ny&idx_side=-105

The farm went next to

Anders Markusson died at 84 years old buried 1853 , married Ingeb. Davidsd. Muri d 64 years old buried 1835 . I did not find his death record but here is the death record for Ingebog. See number 130 for May 5 on the right hand page.

http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=11511&idx_id=11511&uid=ny&idx_side=-76]

The farm then went to the oldest son which in this case was

Markus d 88 years old born 1821 and the older brother of your ancestor Daniel.

This is as much digging as I have done in the Bygdebok, but I will take another look next week.

Reply author: AntonH
Replied on: 07/02/2015 00:52:32
Message:

A follow up on the Loen farm. After the farm was inherited by Markus brother to your ancestor Daniel, it seems to have stayed in the family. Handed down from father to son.

Markus Andersen born abt 1801 married twice, first to Jartrud Rasmusdtr. and second to Helga Jørgensd. Muri.

Next in line was his son Anders Markusen born abt 1835 and married to Kari Rasmusdtr.

Next in line was Markus Andersen born abt 1862

The family can be seen here in the 1865 Norwegian Census.

http://www.rhd.uit.no/folketellinger/ftliste_e.aspx?ft=1865&knr=1448&kenr=005&bnr=0002&lnr=000

In the 1900 Norwegian Census Markus and his family are still connected to Loen.

http://www.rhd.uit.no/folketellinger/ftliste_e.aspx?ft=1900&knr=1448&kenr=009&bnr=0002&lnr=00

The last owner listed in the Bygdebok of Loen is the son of Markus, a Karl Johan Øyvind Markusson Loen born about 1901 , died about 1951. He married Olina Leonora Andreasd. Loen and had five children.

In the 1910 Norwegian Census the family include s Marcus and wife Ida along with children inclouding Karl M who is the last listed owner of Loen in the Bygdebok.

http://www.rhd.uit.no/folketellinger/ftliste_e.aspx?ft=1910&knr=1448&kenr=12a&bnr=0002&lnr=00

Reply author: sabingd
Replied on: 07/02/2015 06:45:51
Message:

You have given me a lot of home work.

Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 07/02/2015 10:24:29
Message:

Anton, your link to 1910 is the same as 1900, this is what you should have given 1910.

Reply author: AntonH
Replied on: 07/02/2015 16:24:14
Message:

Thanks Einar, doing too much, too fast. I went back and fixed the orginal link.

Reply author: AntonH
Replied on: 19/02/2015 23:23:31
Message:

More information on your family from the Nordfjord Bygdebok. As is true of many Bygdebok the narrative usually starts around 1600. Probably due to the lack of usable records for most areas of Norway older than the mid 1500's. Also as is usual the narrative of your ancestors covers several farms as well as Loen. One branch of your family is associated with the Sande farm. The family line according to the Nordfjord Bygdebok begins with a person named Siffurd or Siurodt or Sijurd and in this book the dates listed are for the user of the Sande farm.

Siffurd "Siurd| user 1563 and named 1588 (the named refers to a document, likely parchment, in which he was named, usually for some financial transaction)
His son Simon user of the farm 1602 and likely from the family of Simon Hallsteinson. (meaning that the father of Siffurd was llikely Simon Hallsteinson)

The story now switches to the Haugen farm since the eldest son Rasmus takes over Sande and your ancestors Jacob needs to find another farm.

Jacob Simonson Sande on the Haugen farm, user of the Haugen farm 1627 and married to an Anne

Son Simon Jacobson Haugen user of the Haugen farm 1655, Wife Anne Larsdatter

Son Jacob Simonson Haugen d. 47 years old born abt. 1662 died abt 1709, user of the Haugen farm 1700 married first to Anne and second to Brite Magnusdtr. Tjugen.
and this family connects with the list presented on page 3.

I also looked at the Family Tree on Geni.com that belongs to Jahn Harald Loen. It seems to follow quite closely the narrative presented in the Bygdebok and perhaps uses that data for a reference. In case you are interested in following that tree here is a link.

http://www.geni.com/people/Simen-Haugen/6000000012724559315?through=6000000012724037801

As you can see tracing ones family back in time can be a chore. You need to sort through the list of names and farms in a Bygdebok and find the ones the pertain to you. Not always an easy task. There are of course a lot of other people in this Bygdebok that are ancestors of yours and some day you may be ready to dig through the book.

Reply author: sabingd
Replied on: 21/02/2015 04:20:14
Message:

Thank you Lyndal40. I was off the grid for a week because of surgery. I am always amazed when I see what you people keep digging up. Fasinating to say the least.

Norway Heritage Community : http://www.norwayheritage.com/snitz/