Name connection
Printed from: Norway Heritage Community
Topic URL: http://www.norwayheritage.com/snitz/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6216
Printed on: 05/06/2026
Topic:
Topic author: Brandvik
Subject: Name connection
Posted on: 20/03/2015 19:45:00
Message:
I am looking for information on Mortinus Johansen Brandvik who was born in 1840, married Ingeborg Kristine Andreasdatter Vikan Brandvik on November 9, 1869 in Byugn Church. I am wondering where the name Brandvik came from. My maiden name was Brandvik, it originated from Store Brandvik in Huglo. Does anyone know who the parents are of the above and where they got the last name of Brandvik?
Replies:
Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 20/03/2015 20:51:25
Message:
The marriage record shows that Mortinus Johansen lived on Brandvik farm in Bjugn at the time of marriage.
Why do you think your name originated from Store Brandvik in Huglo? That farm is 460 miles further south...
Mortinus' parents was Johan Gjertsen Møllergaard and Ingeborg Larsdatter Ratdal.
Ingeborg Kristine's parents are probably Andreas Elias Vikan (1818 - 03 Sep 1885) and Kristin Josefsdatter (1822 - 08 Mar 1900)
The picture below is of the Brandvik farm in Bjugn, which must be the origin of Mortinus Johansen's last name.
Reply author: Brandvik
Replied on: 21/03/2015 00:35:54
Message:
Thanks for the information. The reason I thought the name originated in Store Brandvik on Huglo is, my father Knut Ragnvald Eriksen Brandvik was born there. I was just contacted by a person also with Brandvik as the last name, she was wondering if we were related. I didn't realize there was another farm named Brandvik in Norway. I wonder if someone from Huglo went to Bjujgn or if someone from Bjugn went to Huglo. It would be interesting to find out that information.
Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 21/03/2015 00:55:26
Message:
Never say never, but I doubt the people on Store Brandvik in Huglo are related to the people on Brandvik in Bjugn. Two different farms located far from each other.
Do you really have relationship to both these farms?
You said your father originated from Store Brandvik in Huglo. Are you related to Mortinus Johansen Brandvik from Bjugn also?
Reply author: JaneC
Replied on: 21/03/2015 03:39:03
Message:
Knud Rangvald born 15 February 1902, parents:
Knut Eriksen and Ragnhild Johannesdatter.
SOURCE: Hordaland fylke, Stord, Klokkerbok nr. A 2 (1879-1909), Fødte og døpte 1902,
side 86. Link
The family in the 1900 census in Stord, lists parents as
Knut Eriksen born 1859 in Eids sogn i Fjelbergs prestegj SB
Ragnhild Johannesdtr born 1863 Onarheim sogn SB
Link
Knut Rangvald Knutsen born 15 February 1902, in the 1910 census,
at store Brandvik, Huglerøen, Stord, Hordaland. With his parents:
Knut Eriksen Brandvik born 22.02.1859 Fjelberg
Ragnilde Johannesdatter Brandvik born 07.06.1863 Tysnes
and his paternal grandmother
Anne Marie Tobiasdatter born 06.02.1826 in Stord
Link
Knud Eriksen's birth 22 February 1859, parents
Erik Mathiasson --?-- and Anna? or Maria? Tobiasdatter
Source: Hordaland fylke, Eid i Fjelberg, Klokkerbok nr. B 2 (1854-1868), Fødte og døpte 1859, side 17.
Birth #5, Link
Ragnhild's confirmation, #3 on the girl's list,
says she's born 06? June 1863, parents
Johannes Hansen Skorp--?
Sisilie? Ma-?-sd
Source: Hordaland fylke, Onarheim i Tysnes, Klokkerbok nr. C 1 (1873-1895), Konfirmerte 1878, side 156b-157a.
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb10081107010110.jpg
1865 Norway census, at Skorpen in Tysnes
Ragnhild and her parents
Johannes Hansen age 46 born in Tysnæs Prgj
Cicilie Mathsdatter age 37 born in Tysnæs Prgj.
and her paternal grandmother
Marthe Andersdatter age 72 born in Tysnæs Prgj.
Link
...and up comes a GENI family tree:
Link
Nothing so far seems to be leading back to Brandvik in Ørland, Sør-Trøndelag fylke (the place in the opening posts of this thread). Perhaps the question about Mortinus Johansen Brandvik was asked just exploring whether or not Mortinus was related to you (and the evidence so far is: he was not).
Reply author: JaneC
Replied on: 21/03/2015 12:36:04
Message:
Another family tree on GENI - this one seems to be yours, is that right Ragnhild?
Link
For the record, in this thread, here's "your" Brandvik on a map:
Link
Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 21/03/2015 13:36:49
Message:
Erich Mathiasen was born at Tofte in Fjeldberg April 9 1825, see #37.
His parents were Mathias Erichsen and BritaTorgersdatter.
Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 21/03/2015 15:12:01
Message:
The baptismal record for Johannes Hansen Skorpo is #10.
His parents were Hans Tostensen and Marithe Andersdatter, Schorpen.
Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 21/03/2015 15:15:50
Message:
Hans Tostensen, his parents and sister in 1801.
Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 21/03/2015 16:07:10
Message:
Johannes Hansen and Cecilia Madsdatter were married Oct 25 1857, see #28.
Ragnhilde Johannesdatter, her parents and sister in 1865.
Cicelia Madsdatter was born July 26 1829, see #59.
Her parents were Mads Olsen and Ragnilde Olsdatter, Onereim.
Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 22/03/2015 09:36:37
Message:
Anna Maria Tobiasdatter was born on Stord Febr 6 1826, see #10.
Her parents were Tobias Tobiassen and Johanne Jacobea Knudsdatter, Kyvigen.
Tobias Tobiassen, Kyvig and Johanna Jacobia Knudsdatter, Kyvig were married April 10 1821, see #2.
Reply author: JaneC
Replied on: 22/03/2015 12:15:56
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by Brandvik
I was just contacted by a person also with Brandvik as the last name, she was wondering if we were related. I didn't realize there was another farm named Brandvik in Norway.
From the research now posted, it is clear the two names Brandvik have a different origin and your family Brandvik is no relation to the Brandviks from Bjugn.
You may know that traditional naming practice in Norway was to christen a child with a first name and a patronymic name. During the child's lifetime, he/she might further be identified by his/her address (Ole Olsen living at Brandvik- gets shortened to Ole Olsen Brandvik). When the person moved, the address "name" changed. It was not a lifelong permanent name.
In modern times, that tradition ended in Norway, in favor of permanent surnames. The change happened earlier for immigrants, who adopted permanent surnames in their new land (such as the USA or Canada).
By the traditional practice, you can see that two people called Brandvik aren't necessarily related. Even people from the same farm Brandvik might be unrelated. (More than one family lived on a farm and its sub-farms, at the same time, and over the course of time.)
Some or most of this is obvious or widely known, or at least obvious to you - but perhaps making it explicit can't hurt.
Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 22/03/2015 13:09:43
Message:
Both farm names (Brandvik in Bjugn and Store Brandvik in Huglo) are more than 400 years old, and originate from when the first farmers cleared the land by burning it down.... Brandvik can translate into "Fire bay".
Reply author: Brandvik
Replied on: 24/03/2015 00:23:43
Message:
Thank you everyone for all your posts, they have helped me very much.
Reply author: StevenDopp
Replied on: 08/06/2020 00:10:27
Message:
I saw your 2015 post on Norwayheritage.com regarding the Branviks of Bjugn.
I am a descendant of the Branviks from Bjugn and am trying to locate the farm on Google maps. Do you have an address, lat-long, or similar that I can use to find it. I have looked at Google map;s but cannot find it. My understanding is that the farm is located approximately 7 kilometers south of old Bjugn (displays as Botngard on Google maps). I would like to go there some time after I have been inoculated for the coronavirus (perhaps next year?).
[/quote]
Reply author: ToreL
Replied on: 08/06/2020 09:58:09
Message:
Here is a link to its location on Norgeskart.no. The map is interactive, so you can zoom out and move around, and you can change to aerial photo view. (The small icons down on the right.) The farm houses have been changed since the photo above was taken, but the roads and the terrain fit.
Address Brandvikveien 312, 7165 Oksvoll.
Reply author: ToreL
Replied on: 08/06/2020 11:36:44
Message:
And here is an overview of farms in Bjugn and Nord-Stjørna in the late 1400s, taken from the book Gårdshistorie for Hegvik, Berge, Søtvik, Stallvik, Gjølga, Kipnesset, Duskaret, Varghiet by Gudmund Eide. The location of farm no. 12 Brandvik matches the one above, and here is the current extent of farm no. 12 in Ørland municipality.
Reply author: StevenDopp
Replied on: 08/06/2020 18:18:34
Message:
Thank you very much! I was able to find the same location on Google maps using the aerial photo in this message string. Now I will have to contact the residents who live at the farm. In 1979 a relative of mine from America named Virginia Vleck visited. She noted that Jorund Brandvick and his wife lived on the first floor while his son Bjorne and his family lived on the second floor. I wonder if Bjorne and his family still live there?
Can you help me with the mailing address? Is it
Bjorne Brandvick
Brandvikveien 312
7165 Oksvoll
Norway
Virginia Vleck put together a Johnson/Brandvick heritage book. I have a copy.
In it, there are two photos of the Brandvik farm. She noted that the farm was 7 kilometers south of Bjugn. I was looking for the farm using these two photos. I would have never found it based on her notes and the two photos.
I had a difficult time finding Bjugn on Google Maps, since Bjugn no longer exists as a town. Once I found Bjugn, I could not find the farm 7 kilometers to the south. However, with the aerial photo from this site, I looked for a road segment on Google maps similar to the one in the aerial photo. That is how I found it,approximately 6 kilometers to the west of Bjugn. My guess is that Virginia was confused regarding which way was south. Your message confirmed its location!
Thank you for all of your help.
Reply author: ToreL
Replied on: 09/06/2020 00:37:49
Message:
If you go here and then click on Personer above the address, you find the names of the current residents. The address format you typed is correct.
Reply author: StevenDopp
Replied on: 09/06/2020 01:03:39
Message:
Thank you again. I will send a letter.
Reply author: StevenDopp
Replied on: 11/07/2020 23:34:43
Message:
ToreL, Thank you for your help. I mailed a letter to the Brandviks but have not received a response. I sent two copies of the letter, one in English and another in Norwegian using Google Translate. I included some old photographs to show my connection to them.
Hopefully, they will reply but I am beginning to think they will not. I can understand why they may not be interested in replying. My connection to them is quite removed.
Reply author: StevenDopp
Replied on: 03/10/2020 04:39:47
Message:
It is now October and I did not receive a reply to my letter. I guess they were not all that interested in meeting me. I am disappointed but I understand their lack of interest. We are only 3rd cousins, so the relationship is somewhat distant. I still might drive by the farmhouse some day and go to the cemetery to see the graves of my ancestors.
Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 04/10/2020 13:57:30
Message:
Don't hold your breath to view their exact gravesite....
Reply author: StevenDopp
Replied on: 13/12/2020 20:02:26
Message:
I have been performing more research on my great-grandfather Claus Johnson. As it turns out, he was not a "legitimate" Brandvik. Rather, he was the illegitimate son of Johan Olsen Brandvik and Caren Kolbanusdatter. (see https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/255/pd00000004630447 ). Caren married Anders Halvorsen in Frosta, Nord Trondelag (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NWHF-CQ1). I do not know what happened to Anders but I assume he died before Caren's affair with Johan. At the time of the affair, Johan appears to have been living/working on the Møllergård farm in Bjugn parish. The 1865 Norwegian Census shows both Claus Andreas Johansen as well as Caren Kolbanusdatter living on the Møllergård farm. The census identifies the farm as #0013 (https://www.digitalarkivet.no/census/person/pf01038315001262), whereas the Brandvik farm is identified as #0004 ( https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01038315001187). Therefore, I suspect Claus never lived on the Brandvik farm (although his father did and I think Claus had good relations with his Brandvik step-brothers). I believe I found the location of the property on Google Maps. It is near the Brandvik farm. Can anyone help me find the name and address of the property owners? I will write to them.
Perhaps there are some old photographs of Claus and Caren there. Thank you!
Reply author: ToreL
Replied on: 15/12/2020 19:05:34
Message:
There is a problem with the marriage in Frosta in 1845: According to the record, the bride was 50 years old:
https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/2467/171
That would make her 57 years old in 1852, when Klaus was born.
So there are likely two Karen Colbanusdaughters involved. According to the 1865 census, the younger one, living with her son at Møllergård, also originally came from Frosta ("Frosten"), which is not surprising, given the peculiar name. Quite possibly the two women were related.
Reply author: ToreL
Replied on: 15/12/2020 19:47:22
Message:
This is likely the baptism of your Karen Colbanusdatter: #17 https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/17055/13
Åsen was a subparish of Frosta. According to Åsen bygdebook, her parents were Colbanus Hansen (1790-1820) and Kirsti Arntsdatter (ca. 1787 - ) although the ministerial book clearly says Kirsti Eriksdatter. They were married in 1818, had one child in 1819 who died 20 weeks old, and then Karen in 1820. The book also says they lived at Skogtrøa, although the church book seems to say something different.
Then Karen and her mother moved to Ørland (close to Bjugn) in 1836, (#3 & #4)
https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/2447/320
Reply author: ToreL
Replied on: 15/12/2020 21:59:11
Message:
I have looked for traces of Claus and his mother in Bjugn after 1865 without success; now I see from the 1900 US census that Claus probably emigrated in 1874; is this in line with your information? It also looks like his mother Karen followed in 1882. In fact it looks like he may have married in Norway in 1878, and that his wife came over together with Karen in 1882. I infer this from the immigration years and marriage years:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M9VX-TQS
Reply author: ToreL
Replied on: 15/12/2020 22:16:03
Message:
In the 1852 baptism for Klaus, there is a note saying that this is the third child out of wedlock for both parents.
The father's two previous children must be these two born in 1844 and 1846, since the father in both cases is given as Johan Olsen living at Møllergård.
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/view/255/pd00000004626446
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/view/255/pd00000004627549
Reply author: ToreL
Replied on: 15/12/2020 22:22:15
Message:
These seem to be Karen's older children:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/view/255/pd00000004236555
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/view/255/pd00000004628347
Reply author: ToreL
Replied on: 15/12/2020 22:57:15
Message:
Johan Olsen Brandvig was married in 1856:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/view/327/pv00000000457657
As I understand it, you believe that this is the same person who fathered Claus? If so, how did you come to this conclusion?
Looking at the 1865 census, I see that Johan Olsen Brandvig has a 14 year old daughter Inger Maria
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/census/person/pf01038315001187
She must have been born around 1851, hence before Klaus. So if the two Johan Olsens are identical, Klaus should be Johan's fourth child, and not his third.
Edit:
On the other hand, this daughter may have been his wife's rather than his. I doubt the census people would distinguish. Here is the baptism of Inger Maria:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/view/255/pd00000004630158
Reply author: StevenDopp
Replied on: 17/12/2020 02:54:40
Message:
Thanks, ToreL.
Yes. Claus emigrated in either 1872 or 1874, based on 1900 U.S. Census information. Yes, his mother Karen and Claus' half-brother, Jakob Brandvig, left Norway on the same day on the same ship. I don't think Claus married in Norway. He married a Jonetta Sohn (or Schoen) in 1877 in North Dakota. Jonetta died in 1882 shortly after giving birth to my grandfather Oscar. Claus then married Beret Moen. There was a farm owned by Hans Moen in North Dakota which was within 2 miles of Claus' farm, so I think that is where/how Claus met Beret. For what it is worth, Jakob Brandvig married Olina Moen, who was Beret's sister. I often wondered if they had a joint marriage, where two couples marry on the same day at the same church.
quote:
Originally posted by ToreL
I have looked for traces of Claus and his mother in Bjugn after 1865 without success; now I see from the 1900 US census that Claus probably emigrated in 1874; is this in line with your information? It also looks like his mother Karen followed in 1882. In fact it looks like he may have married in Norway in 1878, and that his wife came over together with Karen in 1882. I infer this from the immigration years and marriage years:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M9VX-TQS
Reply author: StevenDopp
Replied on: 17/12/2020 03:04:38
Message:
It has been long passed down through the family that Johan Olsen Brandvig was the father of Claus. In the family book, "Claus Johnson, Jacob Brandvig, Christian Brandvik: From Norway to North Dakota" by Virginia Vleck (1993) states that all three are brothers and their parents are Johan Olsen and Johana (Anna) Olsen. It contains an 1880's photo of the Brandvik farm. My mother supplied the photo for the publishing of the book.
Claus likely paid for Jacob and his mother to emigrate to North Dakota. Also, all three had farms in close proximity of each other in North Dakota. Plus I have a few photos of the three brothers and their families.
However, I don't think the Vleck book is completely correct as I think Karen Colanusdatter was Claus' mother and Johan Olsen Brandvik was his father. I will try to email you what I have written so far.
quote:
Originally posted by ToreL
Johan Olsen Brandvig was married in 1856:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/view/327/pv00000000457657
As I understand it, you believe that this is the same person who fathered Claus? If so, how did you come to this conclusion?
Looking at the 1865 census, I see that Johan Olsen Brandvig has a 14 year old daughter Inger Maria
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/census/person/pf01038315001187
She must have been born around 1851, hence before Klaus. So if the two Johan Olsens are identical, Klaus should be Johan's fourth child, and not his third.
Edit:
On the other hand, this daughter may have been his wife's rather than his. I doubt the census people would distinguish. Here is the baptism of Inger Maria:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/view/255/pd00000004630158
Reply author: StevenDopp
Replied on: 17/12/2020 03:21:37
Message:
I think this link shows that Johan Olsen was the father and Karen Colbanusdatter the mother of Claus. Both appeared to live on the Mollergard farm at the time. https://www.digitalarkivet.no/view/255/pd00000004630447
Reply author: StevenDopp
Replied on: 17/12/2020 03:23:51
Message:
Thanks for your work. I will take a look at all the links you have found.
Reply author: StevenDopp
Replied on: 17/12/2020 04:00:04
Message:
Interesting. I am having a difficult time reading the link, unfortunately. I assumed that Anders Halvorsen was my Karen's husband and that he was simply much older than my Karen.
quote:
Originally posted by ToreL
There is a problem with the marriage in Frosta in 1845: According to the record, the bride was 50 years old:
https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/2467/171
That would make her 57 years old in 1852, when Klaus was born.
So there are likely two Karen Colbanusdaughters involved. According to the 1865 census, the younger one, living with her son at Møllergård, also originally came from Frosta ("Frosten"), which is not surprising, given the peculiar name. Quite possibly the two women were related.
Reply author: StevenDopp
Replied on: 17/12/2020 04:05:21
Message:
Interesting. It would make sense that she and her mother moved to Orland. I wonder if my Karen ever married? The 1900 US Census states that she was a widow. Perhaps she lied to the Census official?
quote:
Originally posted by ToreL
This is likely the baptism of your Karen Colbanusdatter: #17 https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/17055/13
Åsen was a subparish of Frosta. According to Åsen bygdebook, her parents were Colbanus Hansen (1790-1820) and Kirsti Arntsdatter (ca. 1787 - ) although the ministerial book clearly says Kirsti Eriksdatter. They were married in 1818, had one child in 1819 who died 20 weeks old, and then Karen in 1820. The book also says they lived at Skogtrøa, although the church book seems to say something different.
Then Karen and her mother moved to Ørland (close to Bjugn) in 1836, (#3 & #4)
https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/2447/320
Reply author: StevenDopp
Replied on: 17/12/2020 04:08:50
Message:
The baptism link indicates that a Pedersen and not Johan was the father of Inger. This would make sense and might explain how Claus could have lived on the Brandvik farm. Anne, I think, had a child from a previous marriage so was likely more tolerant of Johan with a son (Claus) from a previous affair.
quote:
Originally posted by ToreL
Johan Olsen Brandvig was married in 1856:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/view/327/pv00000000457657
As I understand it, you believe that this is the same person who fathered Claus? If so, how did you come to this conclusion?
Looking at the 1865 census, I see that Johan Olsen Brandvig has a 14 year old daughter Inger Maria
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/census/person/pf01038315001187
She must have been born around 1851, hence before Klaus. So if the two Johan Olsens are identical, Klaus should be Johan's fourth child, and not his third.
Edit:
On the other hand, this daughter may have been his wife's rather than his. I doubt the census people would distinguish. Here is the baptism of Inger Maria:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/view/255/pd00000004630158
Reply author: StevenDopp
Replied on: 17/12/2020 04:14:16
Message:
This site indicates that Ane had Inger with Johan Peter Pedersen https://www.innstrandslekt.no/getperson.php?personID=I19989&tree=slektstre1
Reply author: ToreL
Replied on: 17/12/2020 11:00:57
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by StevenDopp
I believe I found the location of the property on Google Maps. It is near the Brandvik farm. Can anyone help me find the name and address of the property owners? I will write to them.
Perhaps there are some old photographs of Claus and Caren there. Thank you!
Møllergård is located at the address
Brandvikveien 14
7165 Oksvoll
Here it is on a modern map.
In the phone book I find no person registered at this address. According to the property information at the map website, the property is used today as a museum and a library, plus storage.
Here is the museum website
Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 17/12/2020 13:15:54
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by StevenDopp
Interesting. It would make sense that she and her mother moved to Orland. I wonder if my Karen ever married? The 1900 US Census states that she was a widow. Perhaps she lied to the Census official?quote:
Originally posted by ToreL
This is likely the baptism of your Karen Colbanusdatter: #17 https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/17055/13
Åsen was a subparish of Frosta. According to Åsen bygdebook, her parents were Colbanus Hansen (1790-1820) and Kirsti Arntsdatter (ca. 1787 - ) although the ministerial book clearly says Kirsti Eriksdatter. They were married in 1818, had one child in 1819 who died 20 weeks old, and then Karen in 1820. The book also says they lived at Skogtrøa, although the church book seems to say something different.
Then Karen and her mother moved to Ørland (close to Bjugn) in 1836, (#3 & #4)
https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/2447/320
It generally is much easier in US to be a widow than an unmarried mother or divorcee-- more socially acceptable.
Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 17/12/2020 13:45:04
Message:
Here is Claus and family in the 1885 Dakota Territorial census transcription:
19-007-04 Johnson, Klaus 32 Head Farmer Norway Cass
19-007-05 Johnson, Betzy I. 27 Wife Norway Cass
19-007-06 Johnson, Clauda 6 Daughter Dakota Cass
19-007-07 Johnson, Oscar 4 Son Dakota Cass
19-007-08 Johnson, Unetta 1 Jan Daughter Dakota Cass
19-007-09 Iverson, Ans 22 Servant Farm laborer Norway Cass
19-007-10 Stoley, John 23 Servant Farm laborer Norway Cass
19-007-11 Lumn, Louis 30 Servant Farm laborer Norway Cass
19-007-12 Machter, Caroline 60 Mother Norway Cass
Here is Claus' marriage in Minnesota Official Marriage System:
GOODHUE M6-573 12/06/1877 JOHNSON, CLAUS A. SOON, JANETTE PEDERSON
Here is Claus' probate index listing at NDSU Archives:
Johnson, Claus A. 205-2884 Died Mar. 14, 1914 Raymond Township, Cass County, ND
Claus' 2nd marriage is recorded in the Zion Lutheran church at Harwood records on 9 April 1883. He is listed as "enkemd" which abbreviates widower. This marriage record records his mother's name as Karen Kolbjorson and his father as Johan Olson and his birth places Throndhjem. Berit's name is listed as Berit Iversdatter Moen and her birthplace as Dovre, Norway and her parents as Iver Moen and Marit O Moen.
Please excuse me if you already have this information.
Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 17/12/2020 14:56:56
Message:
Jacob Andreas Brandvig m Oline Moen on 19 Nov 1889. His parents are listed as Johan Ols Brandvig and his wife Ane Olsdtr and his birthplace as Bjugn, Throndhjems __, Norway and Oline's parents are listed as John Moen and his wife as Anna Olsdtr and her birthplace as Dovre. Witnesses to the wedding are Iver J Moen and Claus A Johnson. From the Zion Lutheran church records at Harwood. Jacob is listed as resident or member of N.M.River and Oline is listed as member of the congregation. N.M. might be short for North Maple?
Karen Colbjornson's death is recorded as occurring 10 March 1901 with burial 13 March 1901 and her age is listed as 83 years. Claus Johnson is identified as her son. Also found in Zion Lutheran Church records.
Reply author: StevenDopp
Replied on: 17/12/2020 15:40:39
Message:
Fascinating. Thank you for the information. Could you provide me with the links, especially for the marriage information? I am especially interested in the marriage information about Janette Pederson. I have often speculated that my mother's middle name, Jeanette, in honor of Claus' first wife. The family always thought the name of Claus' first wife was Jonetta Sohn or Schoen and that she was from Goodhue County, Minnesota, but originally from somewhere in Norway (I don't know where in Norway).
I understand that this website will be closing down in January. I would like to be able to keep this discussion going after it the first of the year. My email address is dopphomefl@gmail.com
quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
Here is Claus and family in the 1885 Dakota Territorial census transcription:
19-007-04 Johnson, Klaus 32 Head Farmer Norway Cass
19-007-05 Johnson, Betzy I. 27 Wife Norway Cass
19-007-06 Johnson, Clauda 6 Daughter Dakota Cass
19-007-07 Johnson, Oscar 4 Son Dakota Cass
19-007-08 Johnson, Unetta 1 Jan Daughter Dakota Cass
19-007-09 Iverson, Ans 22 Servant Farm laborer Norway Cass
19-007-10 Stoley, John 23 Servant Farm laborer Norway Cass
19-007-11 Lumn, Louis 30 Servant Farm laborer Norway Cass
19-007-12 Machter, Caroline 60 Mother Norway Cass
Here is Claus' marriage in Minnesota Official Marriage System:
GOODHUE M6-573 12/06/1877 JOHNSON, CLAUS A. SOON, JANETTE PEDERSON
Here is Claus' probate index listing at NDSU Archives:
Johnson, Claus A. 205-2884 Died Mar. 14, 1914 Raymond Township, Cass County, ND
Claus' 2nd marriage is recorded in the Zion Lutheran church at Harwood records on 9 April 1883. He is listed as "enkemd" which abbreviates widower. This marriage record records his mother's name as Karen Kolbjorson and his father as Johan Olson and his birth places Throndhjem. Berit's name is listed as Berit Iversdatter Moen and her birthplace as Dovre, Norway and her parents as Iver Moen and Marit O Moen.
Please excuse me if you already have this information.
Reply author: StevenDopp
Replied on: 17/12/2020 15:44:25
Message:
Amazing! Thanks again for the information.
How did you access the Zion Lutheran church records? Any idea where Beret Moen, Oline's sister, was born? Are you saying that Oline was born in Dovre or that Ane Olsdtr was born in Dovre?
quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
Jacob Andreas Brandvig m Oline Moen on 19 Nov 1889. His parents are listed as Johan Ols Brandvig and his wife Ane Olsdtr and his birthplace as Bjugn, Throndhjems __, Norway and Oline's parents are listed as John Moen and his wife as Anna Olsdtr and her birthplace as Dovre. Witnesses to the wedding are Iver J Moen and Claus A Johnson. From the Zion Lutheran church records at Harwood. Jacob is listed as resident or member of N.M.River and Oline is listed as member of the congregation. N.M. might be short for North Maple?
Karen Colbjornson's death is recorded as occurring 10 March 1901 with burial 13 March 1901 and her age is listed as 83 years. Claus Johnson is identified as her son. Also found in Zion Lutheran Church records.
Reply author: StevenDopp
Replied on: 17/12/2020 15:57:51
Message:
Thank you, Tore:. My guess was 14 Brandvikveien but I was not sure. I found it a few days ago on Google maps but was not sure of the address. I couldn't find out who lived there either. I am glad to hear it is now a museum and I will contact the museum. Perhaps they have a few old photos. Perhaps they would be interested in what I have found about Claus as he was living there at the time of the 1865 Norwegian census. I will definitely have to visit now.
quote:
Originally posted by ToreLquote:
Originally posted by StevenDopp
I believe I found the location of the property on Google Maps. It is near the Brandvik farm. Can anyone help me find the name and address of the property owners? I will write to them.
Perhaps there are some old photographs of Claus and Caren there. Thank you!
Møllergård is located at the address
Brandvikveien 14
7165 Oksvoll
Here it is on a modern map.
In the phone book I find no person registered at this address. According to the property information at the map website, the property is used today as a museum and a library, plus storage.
Here is the museum website
Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 17/12/2020 16:25:06
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by StevenDopp
Amazing! Thanks again for the information.
How did you access the Zion Lutheran church records? Any idea where Beret Moen, Oline's sister, was born? Are you saying that Oline was born in Dovre or that Ane Olsdtr was born in Dovre?quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
Jacob Andreas Brandvig m Oline Moen on 19 Nov 1889. His parents are listed as Johan Ols Brandvig and his wife Ane Olsdtr and his birthplace as Bjugn, Throndhjems __, Norway and Oline's parents are listed as John Moen and his wife as Anna Olsdtr and her birthplace as Dovre. Witnesses to the wedding are Iver J Moen and Claus A Johnson. From the Zion Lutheran church records at Harwood. Jacob is listed as resident or member of N.M.River and Oline is listed as member of the congregation. N.M. might be short for North Maple?
Karen Colbjornson's death is recorded as occurring 10 March 1901 with burial 13 March 1901 and her age is listed as 83 years. Claus Johnson is identified as her son. Also found in Zion Lutheran Church records.
They are in the ELCA pastoral acts records database at Ancestry. Perhaps your local library has the Library Edition of Ancestry which has been made available for an extended period for patrons of participating libraries (North Dakota State Library is participating with many local public libraries in North Dakota offering the service.) So I don't have links since I don't have a private subscription.
The records are labelled as being from Zion Lutheran at Harwood but the notes amongst the records indicate there may have been several small congregations who consolidated with other churches and ended up as Zion Lutheran.
Her birthplace was recorded as Dovre, Norway just like Oline's in her marriage to Claus, see above.
Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 17/12/2020 16:43:20
Message:
I don't know anything about Jonette Pedersdatter Soon except her name and that she married Claus and had two children. But here is a possible migrant going to Redwing (which is in Goodhue county) and a father named Peder.
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/9/og00000000053404
Here is their marriage in Goodhue in 1877:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X2BT-2ZP
Likely here is Claus in Goodhue in 1875:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MKNF-M2N
Its a transcription error that he is "canadian", look at the original information you will see born in Norway.
Here is an Ole P Soon in Goodhue county in 1885. Ole Pederson Soon in a witness to Jonette's marriage to Claus:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQFQ-SQ5
Here is a family tree at familysearch and they have a picture of Jonette and Claus: https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/landscape/G4QZ-WLC
Looks like Ole P Soon settled on the spelling of of the name as Sohn. Here is his and Kjerstine's headstone:
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/46291911/kjerstina-sohn
Claus Johnson and family in 1880 Cass county D.T.:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MCV3-VMJ
An obituary of Ole P Sohn:
https://newspapers.mnhs.org/jsp/PsImageViewer.jsp?doc_id=7c40d332-c89c-49b1-ad34-f608d89a2f16%2Fmnhi0031%2F1H0YNK5B%2F17052501
The farm in Norway is named Sonen. Likely here is Jonette with her parents in the 1865 census:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01038333000326
Reply author: ToreL
Replied on: 17/12/2020 19:42:07
Message:
I wonder if this could be Beret and her brother Iver plus parents and one more sibling at the 1865 census:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/census/rural-residence/bf01038055003366
The farm name is Morken, not Moen, but browsing two farms ahead you get to Moen.
Brit/Beret's age is some years off, and no trace of Oline. Do you know approx. when she was born?
There is a very new bygdebook for Dovre, just a few years old, too new to be available (for Norwegians) online, but I might check at a library later.
Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 17/12/2020 19:46:42
Message:
Well there's obviously a difference between Oline and Berit. Berit's patronymic is Iver and Oline's patronymic Is John, this information is drawn from their marriage records.
Here is an Iver Iversen marrying 1849 in Lesja Dovre:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/327/pv00000009491513
Reply author: ToreL
Replied on: 17/12/2020 19:50:59
Message:
Does this settle it? The 1875 census same farm, with a new daughter Oline:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/census/person/pf01052085002848
Reply author: ToreL
Replied on: 17/12/2020 19:59:38
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
Berit's patronymic is Iver and Oline's patronymic Is John, this information is drawn from their marriage records.
But Steven states that they were sisters. And note that the father's name was "John Iversen", so one sister may have used "her own" patronymic and the other sister her father's. As you know this (latter) practice was very common among immigarnts.
On the other hand, John and Iver Iversen lived on neightboring farms ay Dovre; North and South Morken, aged two years apart and possibly brothers. And Iver also had a daughter named Brit, with a birth year exactly matching the US census data. So possibly the Oline and Beret who came to America were first cousins rather than sisters?
Also, the younger Brit had a brother named Hans.
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/census/rural-residence/bf01038055003374
Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 17/12/2020 20:06:47
Message:
Here are Betsy Johnson's dates from the North Dakota Death Index we could check in Dovre to see who her parents were and not rely on the information in her marriage record.JOHNSON, BETSY 12/07/1918 Cass FEMALE 71 Years 01/13/1847 North Dakota Cass Not the correct one.
The correct one:
JOHNSON, BERET 08/11/1944 Cass FEMALE 88 Years 07/03/1856 North Dakota Cass
#46 Britha b 3 July 1856 to Iver Iversen Moen and Marith Ols
SAH, Lesja prestekontor, Parish register (copy) no. 3, 1842-1862, p. 96-97
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070129650410
Reply author: ToreL
Replied on: 17/12/2020 20:24:50
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
Here are Betsy Johnson's dates from the North Dakota Death Index we could check in Dovre to see who her parents were and not rely on the information in her marriage record.JOHNSON, BETSY 12/07/1918 Cass FEMALE 71 Years 01/13/1847 North Dakota CassNot the correct one.
The correct one:
JOHNSON, BERET 08/11/1944 Cass FEMALE 88 Years 07/03/1856 North Dakota Cass
Father IVER IVERSEN. (#74)
https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/8910/24
Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 17/12/2020 20:29:23
Message:
Very probable that Oline and Beret are related, however, just not sisters.
Here is Iver Iversen in the 1875 census:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01052085002654
Here Beret is in the 1875 census head milkmaid?
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01052085002200
Reply author: ToreL
Replied on: 17/12/2020 20:39:35
Message:
Brit Iversdatter Morken (#10), born 1856, left Dovre (for Dakota??) in 1882.
Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 17/12/2020 20:51:42
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by ToreL
Brit Iversdatter Morken (#10), born 1856, left Dovre (for Dakota??) in 1882.
#18 Iver Johnsen Morken also left in 1882 ? or 1883
Reply author: StevenDopp
Replied on: 17/12/2020 21:37:36
Message:
Thank you for all of your work! This is going to take me some time to digest. There was a farm in North Dakota adjacent to the Claus Johnson farm which was owned by a Hans Moen. I assume the Hans Moen with the North Dakota farm is the same Hans you have identified. Your research suggests he may have been a brother to one and a cousin to the other, although I am confused as to which of the two girls was the sister and which was the cousin of Hans.
Wonderful work. It helps to answer several questions I had. I never thought of looking in the Minnesota census for Claus. I assumed he had just moved immediately from Norway to North Dakota. Looks like he lived in Goodhue County for a few years.
Also, Jmarler, the Claus Johnson family tree you identified on Familysearch.org is the one I have been putting together.
Reply author: ToreL
Replied on: 17/12/2020 21:58:23
Message:
My hunch that the neighbours Iver Iversen Morken and John Iversen Morken might be brothers, looks stronger after the finding of these baptisms:
BAPTISM OF IVER 1819
Name:
Iver
Event Type:
Christening
Event Date:
11 Jul 1819
Event Place:
Lesja, Oppland, Norway
Event Place (Original):
Lesja, Opland, Norway
Gender:
Male
Birth Date:
25 Jun 1819
Father's Name:
Iver Mortensen
Mother's Name:
Brigit Iversdr
BAPTISM OF JOHN 1822
Name:
John
Event Type:
Christening
Event Date:
28 Apr 1822
Event Place:
Lesja, Oppland, Norway
Event Place (Original):
Lesja, Opland, Norway
Gender:
Male
Birth Date:
11 Apr 1822
Father's Name:
Iver Mortensen
Mother's Name:
Brigit Iversdr
Also note that Iver Mortensen is living with John Iversen and his family in 1865.
Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 18/12/2020 00:52:45
Message:
I think you're right.
Here is a Berit Moen leaving in 1882:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/8/pe00000000074369
Berit's mom also came to US, she lives with Claus and Berit in 1910 census:
Name: Burt Johnson [Bent Johnson] [Burt Moen]
Age in 1910: 54
Birth Year: abt 1856
Birthplace: Norway
Home in 1910: Raymond, Cass, North Dakota
Race: White
Gender: Female
Immigration Year: 1882
Relation to Head of House: Wife
Marital Status: Married
Spouse's Name: Claus A Johnson
Father's Birthplace: Norway
Mother's Name: Mary Moen
Mother's Birthplace: Norway
Native Tongue: English
Able to read: Yes
Able to Write: Yes
Years Married: 27
Number of Children Born: 3
Number of Children Living: 3
Neighbors:
Household Members Age Relationship
Mary Moen 85 Mother-in-law
Claus A Johnson 58 Head
Burt Johnson 54 Wife
Oscar Johnson 28 Son
Jacob Stensland 25 Hired Man
Nettie Johnson 24 Daughter
Alice Rustad 11 Roomer
Looks like she came as a widow in 1886:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/8/pe00000000997717
There are three Marit Moen in the ND Public Death Index, guessing it the one in Cass county:
MOEN, MARIT 08/15/1919 Richland FEMALE 92 Years 99/99/9999 North Dakota Richland
MOEN, MARIT 07/12/1915 Cass FEMALE 91 Years 99/99/9999 North Dakota Cass
MOEN, MARIT 04/17/1918 Traill FEMALE 83 Years 02/02/1835 North Dakota Traill
Marit's obituary was in the Fargo forum and daily republican
Wednesday, Jul 14, 1915 Fargo, ND Page 6 col 2:
"...They left this morning for Harwood where Rev [J.M.O] Ness will officiate in the funeral services of Mrs. Marit Moen, who died at the home of her daughter Mrs. Klaus Johnson, residing 12 miles north of Fargo at 9 o'clock Monday evening. The services will be held from the Klaus Johnson farm home this afternoon and interment will be made in the Harwood Maple river cemetery."
The Zion Lutheran church also records Marit's death and funeral:
Marit born 12 April 1824 and died 12 July 1915 and funeral 15 July 1915.
Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 18/12/2020 01:34:47
Message:
Hans Moen who married Augusta is a full brother of Beret Moen.
Reply author: StevenDopp
Replied on: 19/12/2020 20:46:30
Message:
This is all very interesting. I suspect you have correctly identified Jonette with her parents in the 1865 Norwegian census. One of the things which is confusing me is that she and her father used the last name of Soon on Jonette's 1877 marriage certificate in Minnesota. As I understand it, the Norwegian town of Son was called Soon until 1889. Do you think she could have been born in Selbo, as identified in the 1865 Norwegian census but had some tie to Soon, Norway? Do you think that the town of Selbu is the town referred to as Selbo in the 1865 census?
quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
I don't know anything about Jonette Pedersdatter Soon except her name and that she married Claus and had two children. But here is a possible migrant going to Redwing (which is in Goodhue county) and a father named Peder.
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/9/og00000000053404
Here is their marriage in Goodhue in 1877:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X2BT-2ZP
Likely here is Claus in Goodhue in 1875:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MKNF-M2N
Its a transcription error that he is "canadian", look at the original information you will see born in Norway.
Here is an Ole P Soon in Goodhue county in 1885. Ole Pederson Soon in a witness to Jonette's marriage to Claus:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQFQ-SQ5
Here is a family tree at familysearch and they have a picture of Jonette and Claus: https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/landscape/G4QZ-WLC
Looks like Ole P Soon settled on the spelling of of the name as Sohn. Here is his and Kjerstine's headstone:
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/46291911/kjerstina-sohn
Claus Johnson and family in 1880 Cass county D.T.:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MCV3-VMJ
An obituary of Ole P Sohn:
https://newspapers.mnhs.org/jsp/PsImageViewer.jsp?doc_id=7c40d332-c89c-49b1-ad34-f608d89a2f16%2Fmnhi0031%2F1H0YNK5B%2F17052501
The farm in Norway is named Sonen. Likely here is Jonette with her parents in the 1865 census:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01038333000326
Reply author: StevenDopp
Replied on: 19/12/2020 21:13:27
Message:
I am trying to find the village of Selbo where Jonetta Pedersdatter was born as well as the Sonen farm as indicated in the 1865 census. I am unable to find either on Google maps. Do you think Selbo could now be part of Meraker Brug, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meraker_Brug ?
quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
I don't know anything about Jonette Pedersdatter Soon except her name and that she married Claus and had two children. But here is a possible migrant going to Redwing (which is in Goodhue county) and a father named Peder.
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/9/og00000000053404
Here is their marriage in Goodhue in 1877:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X2BT-2ZP
Likely here is Claus in Goodhue in 1875:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MKNF-M2N
Its a transcription error that he is "canadian", look at the original information you will see born in Norway.
Here is an Ole P Soon in Goodhue county in 1885. Ole Pederson Soon in a witness to Jonette's marriage to Claus:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQFQ-SQ5
Here is a family tree at familysearch and they have a picture of Jonette and Claus: https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/landscape/G4QZ-WLC
Looks like Ole P Soon settled on the spelling of of the name as Sohn. Here is his and Kjerstine's headstone:
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/46291911/kjerstina-sohn
Claus Johnson and family in 1880 Cass county D.T.:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MCV3-VMJ
An obituary of Ole P Sohn:
https://newspapers.mnhs.org/jsp/PsImageViewer.jsp?doc_id=7c40d332-c89c-49b1-ad34-f608d89a2f16%2Fmnhi0031%2F1H0YNK5B%2F17052501
The farm in Norway is named Sonen. Likely here is Jonette with her parents in the 1865 census:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01038333000326
Reply author: StevenDopp
Replied on: 19/12/2020 21:29:37
Message:
I have three themes which I am trying to determine. First, where did Claus live in Norway? The family history book states that he was born and lived on the Brandvik farm in Bjugn. However, he clearly was living with his mother in 1865 in the nearby Mollergaard farm. In fact, he even used the name Mollergard in the Norway police department emigration log book. Also, he was baptized in Orland. While this doesn't preclude him living on the Brandvik farm, I have no evidence he did so, other than the family history book, which was put together by Claus' grandchildren. The family history book has not proved to be completely accurate. Is there something else that can be checked to see if he ever lived on the Brandvik farm?
I am trying to find out more about Claus' first wite, Jonetta Sohn. Mostly, there isn't much available. The 1865 Norway census indicates she was born in Selbo and in 1865 was living with her parents on the Sonen farm. However, I can't find either one on a map. Any ideas?
Third, I am trying to learn more about Claus' second wife, Beret Moen. I thought she was living on a neighboring farm by at least 1880. However, that clearly was not the case, based on the information you two have provided. I suspect her passage was paid for by Claus as the emigration record shows her passage was paid by someone in the United States. I wonder if she was a "mail order bride"? Since Claus' brother Jakob married Olina Moen, Beret's cousin, I wonder if Beret wrote favorable things to Olina which caused her to travel to North Dakota specifically to marry Jakob? What a crazy way to find a spouse!
Reply author: ToreL
Replied on: 19/12/2020 23:04:38
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
The farm in Norway is named Sonen. Likely here is Jonette with her parents in the 1865 census:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01038333000326
This should be the location of the farm Nedre Sonen or Ner-Sona. This is in the Southern part of the current municiplaity of Stjørdal. Its neighbor to the South is Selbu municipality.
The map lets you zoom out to see the location in relation to Trondheim, etc.
Reply author: ToreL
Replied on: 19/12/2020 23:59:07
Message:
It is not clear what relation Jonetta had to the couple above her in the 1865 census. If Ole Pedersen had been her father, she wouldn't have been a "Pedersdatter", but since the three are listed together and all were born in Selbu, they must be connected somehow.
This (top) could be the "emigartion" record for Ole Perdersen from Selbu to Stjørdal in 1859.
Reply author: StevenDopp
Replied on: 20/12/2020 00:18:04
Message:
Thank you once again. I so very much appreciate your kindness. I had identified Selbu as Selbo but had no idea where the farm was. Of course, this will be a stop on our trip to Norway. I will bet the current occupants will think I am crazy when I knock on their door and tell them my great-grandmother once lived there!
quote:
Originally posted by ToreLquote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
The farm in Norway is named Sonen. Likely here is Jonette with her parents in the 1865 census:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01038333000326
This should be the location of the farm Nedre Sonen or Ner-Sona. This is in the Southern part of the current municiplaity of Stjørdal. Its neighbor to the South is Selbu municipality.
The map lets you zoom out to see the location in relation to Trondheim, etc.
Reply author: ToreL
Replied on: 20/12/2020 01:05:50
Message:
This looks very much like the wedding between Ole Pedersen and Kristine Pedersdatter who are listed together with Jonetta at the 1865 census. The ages are a perfect match, and the location is in the right part of Stjørdal. But no trace in this record of their connection to Selbu, as far as I can see.
Family Serach transcription:
Name:
Ole Pedersen
Event Type:
Marriage
Event Date:
3 Jul 1861
Event Place:
Nord-Trøndelag, Norway
Event Place (Original):
Hegra, Nord-Trøndelag, Norway
Gender:
Male
Age:
27
Birth Year (Estimated):
1834
Father's Name:
Peder Andersen
Spouse's Name:
Kirstine Pedersdatter
Spouse's Gender:
Female
Spouse's Age:
29
Spouse's Birth Year (Estimated):
1832
Spouse's Father's Name:
Peder Olsen
Reply author: StevenDopp
Replied on: 20/12/2020 01:14:54
Message:
That emigration record you identified looks like it is for moving from one part of Norway to another. Is that correct?
quote:
Originally posted by ToreL
It is not clear what relation Jonetta had to the couple above her in the 1865 census. If Ole Pedersen had been her father, she wouldn't have been a "Pedersdatter", but since the three are listed together and all were born in Selbu, they must be connected somehow.
This (top) could be the "emigartion" record for Ole Perdersen from Selbu to Stjørdal in 1859.
Reply author: StevenDopp
Replied on: 20/12/2020 02:09:47
Message:
Beret's gravestone states she was born in 1856 https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/28426473/beret-johnsen
Are you suggesting that Beret may have been from Moen, Norway?
Oline was born 27 May, 1866 https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/28369399/olina-brandvig
quote:
Originally posted by ToreL
I wonder if this could be Beret and her brother Iver plus parents and one more sibling at the 1865 census:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/census/rural-residence/bf01038055003366
The farm name is Morken, not Moen, but browsing two farms ahead you get to Moen.
Brit/Beret's age is some years off, and no trace of Oline. Do you know approx. when she was born?
There is a very new bygdebook for Dovre, just a few years old, too new to be available (for Norwegians) online, but I might check at a library later.
Reply author: StevenDopp
Replied on: 20/12/2020 02:30:22
Message:
Are you saying that Berit was Bridt Iverdatter in the 1875 census? I have difficulty with the names as I do not understand how they change from one generation to the next. Also, that Bridt is the same name as Beret. I guess they are close and it seems as through the spelling of Norwegian names varied quite a bit at that time. If this is Beret, then of course, my next question will be where the farm is located on a map. I will see if I can locate the farm on a map.
I have tried but I cannot locate the farm on a map.
quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
Very probable that Oline and Beret are related, however, just not sisters.
Here is Iver Iversen in the 1875 census:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01052085002654
Here Beret is in the 1875 census head milkmaid?
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01052085002200
Reply author: StevenDopp
Replied on: 20/12/2020 03:16:19
Message:
Interesting. I had missed Mary Moen in my review of the 1910 US Census. I will be sure to add her into my report. However, my report is so long at this poit that it is really a book!
quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
I think you're right.
Here is a Berit Moen leaving in 1882:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/8/pe00000000074369
Berit's mom also came to US, she lives with Claus and Berit in 1910 census:
Name: Burt Johnson [Bent Johnson] [Burt Moen]
Age in 1910: 54
Birth Year: abt 1856
Birthplace: Norway
Home in 1910: Raymond, Cass, North Dakota
Race: White
Gender: Female
Immigration Year: 1882
Relation to Head of House: Wife
Marital Status: Married
Spouse's Name: Claus A Johnson
Father's Birthplace: Norway
Mother's Name: Mary Moen
Mother's Birthplace: Norway
Native Tongue: English
Able to read: Yes
Able to Write: Yes
Years Married: 27
Number of Children Born: 3
Number of Children Living: 3
Neighbors:
Household Members Age Relationship
Mary Moen 85 Mother-in-law
Claus A Johnson 58 Head
Burt Johnson 54 Wife
Oscar Johnson 28 Son
Jacob Stensland 25 Hired Man
Nettie Johnson 24 Daughter
Alice Rustad 11 Roomer
Looks like she came as a widow in 1886:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/8/pe00000000997717
There are three Marit Moen in the ND Public Death Index, guessing it the one in Cass county:
MOEN, MARIT 08/15/1919 Richland FEMALE 92 Years 99/99/9999 North Dakota Richland
MOEN, MARIT 07/12/1915 Cass FEMALE 91 Years 99/99/9999 North Dakota Cass
MOEN, MARIT 04/17/1918 Traill FEMALE 83 Years 02/02/1835 North Dakota Traill
Marit's obituary was in the Fargo forum and daily republican
Wednesday, Jul 14, 1915 Fargo, ND Page 6 col 2:
"...They left this morning for Harwood where Rev [J.M.O] Ness will officiate in the funeral services of Mrs. Marit Moen, who died at the home of her daughter Mrs. Klaus Johnson, residing 12 miles north of Fargo at 9 o'clock Monday evening. The services will be held from the Klaus Johnson farm home this afternoon and interment will be made in the Harwood Maple river cemetery."
The Zion Lutheran church also records Marit's death and funeral:
Marit born 12 April 1824 and died 12 July 1915 and funeral 15 July 1915.
Reply author: ToreL
Replied on: 20/12/2020 11:45:36
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by StevenDopp
That emigration record you identified looks like it is for moving from one part of Norway to another. Is that correct?
Yes, emigration is not the right word. One Ole Pedersen of the right age moved from Selbu to the neighboring municipality of Stjørdal in 1859, two years before the marriage between Ole Pedersen and Kirstine Pedersdatter i Stjørdal in 1861.
Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 20/12/2020 17:46:00
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by StevenDopp
Beret's gravestone states she was born in 1856 https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/28426473/beret-johnsen
Are you suggesting that Beret may have been from Moen, Norway?
Oline was born 27 May, 1866 https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/28369399/olina-brandvigquote:
Originally posted by ToreL
I wonder if this could be Beret and her brother Iver plus parents and one more sibling at the 1865 census:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/census/rural-residence/bf01038055003366
The farm name is Morken, not Moen, but browsing two farms ahead you get to Moen.
Brit/Beret's age is some years off, and no trace of Oline. Do you know approx. when she was born?
There is a very new bygdebook for Dovre, just a few years old, too new to be available (for Norwegians) online, but I might check at a library later.
This is Beret's baptismal posted earlier:
"The correct one:
JOHNSON, BERET 08/11/1944 Cass FEMALE 88 Years 07/03/1856 North Dakota Cass
#46 Britha b 3 July 1856 to Iver Iversen Moen and Marith Ols
SAH, Lesja prestekontor, Parish register (copy) no. 3, 1842-1862, p. 96-97
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070129650410
Edited by - jkmarler on 17/12/2020 20:30:41 "
Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 20/12/2020 17:48:46
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by StevenDopp
Interesting. I had missed Mary Moen in my review of the 1910 US Census. I will be sure to add her into my report. However, my report is so long at this poit that it is really a book!
[quote]
Nothing succeeds like excess!
Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 20/12/2020 18:04:40
Message:
There are two Jonettas born in Selbu in 1855 and 1856, both are illegitimate children. In the first case the father is Jonas Pettersen, otherwise no apparent Pederson connection:
#132 SAT, Ministerialprotokoller, klokkerbøker og fødselsregistre - Sør-Trøndelag, 695/L1154: Parish register (copy) no. 695C05, 1842-1858, p. 206
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070920650464
#94
SAT, Ministerialprotokoller, klokkerbøker og fødselsregistre - Sør-Trøndelag, 695/L1154: Parish register (copy) no. 695C05, 1842-1858, p. 209
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070920650467
Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 20/12/2020 18:08:40
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by StevenDopp
Are you saying that Berit was Bridt Iverdatter in the 1875 census? I have difficulty with the names as I do not understand how they change from one generation to the next. Also, that Bridt is the same name as Beret. I guess they are close and it seems as through the spelling of Norwegian names varied quite a bit at that time. If this is Beret, then of course, my next question will be where the farm is located on a map. I will see if I can locate the farm on a map.
I have tried but I cannot locate the farm on a map.quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
Very probable that Oline and Beret are related, however, just not sisters.
Here is Iver Iversen in the 1875 census:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01052085002654
Here Beret is in the 1875 census head milkmaid?
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01052085002200
I'm saying that her original name was Bridt /Brithe or something like that. In most of the censuses over here her name is Betsy or Bunt or some thing with a B.
Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 20/12/2020 18:21:45
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by StevenDopp
I have three themes which I am trying to determine. First, where did Claus live in Norway? The family history book states that he was born and lived on the Brandvik farm in Bjugn. However, he clearly was living with his mother in 1865 in the nearby Mollergaard farm. In fact, he even used the name Mollergard in the Norway police department emigration log book. Also, he was baptized in Orland. While this doesn't preclude him living on the Brandvik farm, I have no evidence he did so, other than the family history book, which was put together by Claus' grandchildren. The family history book has not proved to be completely accurate. Is there something else that can be checked to see if he ever lived on the Brandvik farm?
I am trying to find out more about Claus' first wite, Jonetta Sohn. Mostly, there isn't much available. The 1865 Norway census indicates she was born in Selbo and in 1865 was living with her parents on the Sonen farm. However, I can't find either one on a map. Any ideas?
Third, I am trying to learn more about Claus' second wife, Beret Moen. I thought she was living on a neighboring farm by at least 1880. However, that clearly was not the case, based on the information you two have provided. I suspect her passage was paid for by Claus as the emigration record shows her passage was paid by someone in the United States. I wonder if she was a "mail order bride"? Since Claus' brother Jakob married Olina Moen, Beret's cousin, I wonder if Beret wrote favorable things to Olina which caused her to travel to North Dakota specifically to marry Jakob? What a crazy way to find a spouse!
There is method to the madness. If you and your relatives marry relatives from another family, they become "known" quantities instead of just a roll of dice. Plus families tend to enforce each other to keep the family together and safe.
Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 20/12/2020 18:50:12
Message:
Here is a long shot for Jonette, Jonette Iversdtr Vold age 16 going to Redving (Redwing) in 1874:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/8/pe00000000056441
Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 20/12/2020 19:05:12
Message:
The marriage of Claus and Jonette was officiated by a minister Joh. Ylvisaker. What was his church in 1877? The marriage record looks like Lands.
He was pastor at Zumbrota Minnesota from 1877-1879:
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=nnc1.cr60969520&view=1up&seq=169&q1=johannes%20ylvisaker
Of the three ELCA congregations listed at Zumbrota in the Ancestry database: Lands, Stordahl, and United Lutheran, it appears that pastoral acts are not available for the years (1877-1879) which might have had more detail about Jonette in the marriage record.
Reply author: StevenDopp
Replied on: 20/12/2020 22:41:48
Message:
Thanks for the response! I think we are approaching the end of what can be found about my ancestors. I really don't want to try to go back farther in time than Caren and Johanna's parents.
quote:
Originally posted by jkmarlerquote:
Originally posted by StevenDopp
Are you saying that Berit was Bridt Iverdatter in the 1875 census? I have difficulty with the names as I do not understand how they change from one generation to the next. Also, that Bridt is the same name as Beret. I guess they are close and it seems as through the spelling of Norwegian names varied quite a bit at that time. If this is Beret, then of course, my next question will be where the farm is located on a map. I will see if I can locate the farm on a map.
I have tried but I cannot locate the farm on a map.quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
Very probable that Oline and Beret are related, however, just not sisters.
Here is Iver Iversen in the 1875 census:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01052085002654
Here Beret is in the 1875 census head milkmaid?
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01052085002200
I'm saying that her original name was Bridt /Brithe or something like that. In most of the censuses over here her name is Betsy or Bunt or some thing with a B.
Reply author: ToreL
Replied on: 20/12/2020 22:43:11
Message:
According to the headstone(repeated here), Ole Pedersen was born on June 12th 1834. Here are matching baptism (#56) and confirmation (#7) records. The father's name Peder Andersen is clearly readable in the latter, and matches the 1861 marriage entry (#17). Also the farm name Gulset is readable. Selbu bygdebook is available online for all users, but I didn't spot any matching Ole or Peder.
Still, this looks like his father Peder Andersen (and possibly his mother, but note the correction in the baptism entry) in 1865.
Reply author: StevenDopp
Replied on: 20/12/2020 22:47:39
Message:
It could be Jonetta, however, this Jonetta appears to have been born in 1860 while Jonetta Sohn I am pursuing was born in 1857. Also, the 1900 US Census indicates the Sohn family emigrated in 1870. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DTF7-WK5?i=2&cc=1325221&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AM9SC-HSP. Admittedly, the emigration year could be wrong.
quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
Here is a long shot for Jonette, Jonette Iversdtr Vold age 16 going to Redving (Redwing) in 1874:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/8/pe00000000056441
Reply author: StevenDopp
Replied on: 20/12/2020 22:59:34
Message:
Other than identifying the farm where Beret Molen lived on a map, we may have come to the limits of what can reasonably be found about my Norwegian ancestry. If you can place her farm on a map, that would be wonderful. This is what one of you posted regarding its name/location: In 1875 she was working as a servant and head milkmaid at the 0114 Rudi, Hovdeholen, Syverslien and Lille-Rudi farm in Dovre parish, Oppland County, Norway.
Here is my guess. https://www.google.com/maps/place/Rudi+Gard/@61.19102,7.9912057,7.75z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x466adc7d538ee727:0xfbb6827dae68f27f!8m2!3d61.575387!4d9.908401?hl=en
I doubt it is the correct location, however.
Would any of you like a copy of my report when I have finished it?
Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 21/12/2020 00:59:48
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by StevenDopp
I have three themes which I am trying to determine. First, where did Claus live in Norway? The family history book states that he was born and lived on the Brandvik farm in Bjugn. However, he clearly was living with his mother in 1865 in the nearby Mollergaard farm. In fact, he even used the name Mollergard in the Norway police department emigration log book. Also, he was baptized in Orland. While this doesn't preclude him living on the Brandvik farm, I have no evidence he did so, other than the family history book, which was put together by Claus' grandchildren. The family history book has not proved to be completely accurate. Is there something else that can be checked to see if he ever lived on the Brandvik farm?
There are two other records to search for in Norway that might give an address, a possible vaccination record and his confirmation record.
Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 21/12/2020 01:04:04
Message:
quote:
[i]
Would any of you like a copy of my report when I have finished it?
Thanks for the thought, but I'm trying to downsize. You might consider donating a copy to the Red River Valley Genealogical Society; PO Box 9284; Fargo ND 58106 since they lived 10-20 miles away.
Reply author: ToreL
Replied on: 21/12/2020 21:00:16
Message:
Back to the brothers Iver and Jon Iversen at Morken in Dovre. Here you see Morken on a map. If you zoom out, you will see, North across the river, Rudi where Brit lived and was working in 1875.
I also looked in Bygdabok for Dovre by Gunnar Kaas and Arnfinn Engen. A short resume: Morken was sometimes called Moen. For a while it was divided in two farms; Lower or North Morken and Upper or South Morken. The first known people at the farm where Morten and Eli, who probably arrived there in the 1770s, and who lived here with their son Iver in 1801.
People:
Morten Eriksson (1745-1811) and Eli Iversdotter (1742 - ?) had the children
- Erik (1778-1792)
- Kari (1781 - ?)
- Iver (1788 - 1869)
This Iver married Brit Iversdotter (1790-1855), and they had the children
- Martin (1816 - ?)
- Iver (1819 - ca. 1886)
- Jon (1822 - 1900)
- Simen (1824 - after 1900)
- Kari (1833 - ?)
Iver and Jon above are those we have looked at previously:
Iver married Marit Olsdotter (1825 - ?), and they had the children
- Ola (1850 - ?)
- Marit (1853 - 1925)
- Brit (1856 - ) To Dakota in 1882
- Iver (1859 - )
- Hans (1862 -)
- Ola (1865 - ) To Fargo, Dakota in 1886. His mother was widowed at the time, and came with him.
Jon Iverson had, as a bachelor, with Ragnhild Siversdotter, the son
- Peder (1854-1879)
Jon Iverson married Anne Olsdotter (1828-1895), and they had the children
- Brit (1855 - ?) To Westby, Wisconsin 1892
- Marit (1859 - )
- Iver (1862 - ) To New York 1883
- Oline(1866 - ) To New York 1886
The wives of Iver and Jon Iverson, Marit and Anne Olsdotter, were sisters, so their children were double cousins.
Send me a PM with an email address if you would like more detailed info, and I can email you something.
Reply author: StevenDopp
Replied on: 22/12/2020 01:13:08
Message:
Yes. I will do that.
quote:
Originally posted by jkmarlerquote:
[i]
Would any of you like a copy of my report when I have finished it?
Thanks for the thought, but I'm trying to downsize. You might consider donating a copy to the Red River Valley Genealogical Society; PO Box 9284; Fargo ND 58106 since they lived 10-20 miles away.
Reply author: StevenDopp
Replied on: 28/12/2020 15:37:24
Message:
I am slowly making my way through all of the information provided by you and the other genealogists. I think the information you have found about Johan and Caren is correct. From my perspective, it is amazing that Johan and Karen had three children outside of marriage. Was this normal in Norway at this time? Were Johan and Karen treated negatively by other people on their farms, in their community, etc? Were such illegitimate children accepted by their farms/community?
Johan strikes me as quite the Romeo. Not only did he have three children outside of marriage, he married Ane Olsdatter and I think ended up owning the Brandvik farm. At least, I know for certain that their oldest son, Jens, owned the farm.
quote:
Originally posted by ToreL
In the 1852 baptism for Klaus, there is a note saying that this is the third child out of wedlock for both parents.
The father's two previous children must be these two born in 1844 and 1846, since the father in both cases is given as Johan Olsen living at Møllergård.
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/view/255/pd00000004626446
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/view/255/pd00000004627549
Reply author: ToreL
Replied on: 28/12/2020 19:08:46
Message:
Someone with a longer experience than me might give you a more informed answer, but here goes: I have seen similar cases a number of times, but they are exceptions. On the other hand, it was not that uncommon for a couple to have a child or two before they married. Single mothers would be stigmatized, and considerably more than the fathers.
Reply author: StevenDopp
Replied on: 28/12/2020 20:06:26
Message:
Thanks ToreL. You would know more about life in Norway in the 19th century than I would. I will assume that Caren was not so well received by the other people who lived in Bjugn, at least not so well received by the other women. Perhaps this is a question the Mollergaard museum could answer. I sent them an email but they have not responded. If they have anything on the ball, They should send me an acknowledgement, an offer to visit their museum, as well as a request to become a member (I used to work in tourism promotion. That is what would happen here in the U.S., at least when I was in charge of my little part of it.)..
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