Searching for g-g-grandfather d.o.b. 1820s-1840s

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Topic:

Topic author: michaelchangwong
Subject: Searching for g-g-grandfather d.o.b. 1820s-1840s
Posted on: 06/08/2018 08:27:28
Message:

I have relatives on my great-grandfather’s side of the family as well. There are, I was told, four possible spelling of the last name: Vang, Von, Wang and Vaughn (also Vingt, Vaugh...). There are three versions of the first name: Carl, Karl, and Carlos. If anyone could give me the correct spellings, that would be wonderful, and also where the name originated from. Our family name, Wong, originated from someone choosing the closest sound to “Vang”.

“Carl Vang” was born in the early to mid-1800s. He came to China as a sea merchant or captain and was a pilot sailing between China seaports of Shanghai, Port Arthur (now Lushun) and Hong Kong. He had resided in Harbin and Dalian, China, and visited Hong Kong frequently. He had four children. He returned to Norway with two daughters, both of whom we were told had blonde hair and blue eyes. It was rumoured he later left Norway and returned to work as a ship pilot, and was also an honorary consul or high official with the Norwegian Consulate in China. He was also rumoured to have died and been buried in Dalian, China. All cemeteries, records and the Norwegian consulate in Dalian were destroyed in the Chinese Cultural Revolution.

My great-grandfather, the first-born of Carl Vang, was born on February 6, 1870 in Dalian or Harbin, China. He moved to Hong Kong with Carl and mother. He later became the comprador of the Hongkong and Kowloon Wharf and Godown Company in Hong Kong, served in many directorships, committees, and was appointed a Justice of the Peace for the colony.

I have a photo of “Carl Vang”, which is attached (please right-click and select "Open Image in New Tab").

Replies:

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 06/08/2018 13:55:57
Message:

The Norwegian Digitalarkivet has a digital set of information on pastoral acts performed in the Norwegian Seaman's mission churches which purports to contain acts from these places in China:

Anhwa
Changsha
Hong Kong
Ningsiang
Shanghai
Sinhwa
Taohwalun
Tungping
Yiyang
Yuankiang

However, I found no person named Carl (any spelling which would include Karl etc.) narrowed to China. Overall looking for any Carl / Karl in the whole base not limiting to China finds 163 Carls. It is possible that he is in the larger group using a different last name such as a patronymic name rather than a farm name.

Interesting problem....

Reply author: lynn peterson432
Replied on: 06/08/2018 15:43:13
Message:

found a carl vang born1836 mariied dec 29 1862 skoger vestvold norway on family search

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 06/08/2018 16:05:29
Message:

You may want to do a thorough search at the Norwegian National Library site:

https://www.nb.no/search

In the newspapers (aviser) there was two mentioning a styrmand Carl Vang in Bergens Adressecontoirs Efteretningen. One was dated Friday 23 Jan 1863 on page 1 under a headline of Tvangsauktion (which Google translates as 'compulsory sale.")

"1. Endel guld og solv deponeret som baandfaart pant af Styrmand Carl Vang."

Which Google also translates as" part of gold and silver deposited as flat rate pledge of mate Carl Vang."

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 06/08/2018 20:07:04
Message:

Carl Vang


What was the name of his wife and children?

Reply author: lynn peterson432
Replied on: 06/08/2018 21:23:20
Message:

on family search there is a chinese collection of family genaologies 1259 -2014 you may want;;to look at that

Reply author: michaelchangwong
Replied on: 07/08/2018 08:16:38
Message:

Thanks for the great help received so far. You people are just wonderful!

Reply author: michaelchangwong
Replied on: 07/08/2018 08:43:49
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jwiborg


Carl Vang


What was the name of his wife and children?

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Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 07/08/2018 15:32:35
Message:

Searching the Norwegian Digital Archives for females born in China between 1860-1890, residing in Norway gives the following 6 results:

1. Dagny Major, (b 1868 in Saigon, Cochin, China.) Parents Fredrik Christian Seiersted Major & Ditlevine Nathalie Dovra Major. Major is family name.
2. Grace Wallem, (b 1877-NOV-16, Shanghai, China). Wallem is married name.
3. Hanna Therese Margrethe Daae, (b 1883-OCT-21, Chefos, China). Daae is family name.
4. Harriet Mary Helland Madsen, (b 1868-SEP-13, Hong Kong, China). Madsen is married name.
5. Lissy Bull (b. 1886-09-23, China). Bull is family name.
6. Olava Margrethe Schjøth (b 1886-NOV-17, China). 23, China). Schjøth is family name.

Reply author: michaelchangwong
Replied on: 07/08/2018 16:11:28
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jwiborg

Searching the Norwegian Digital Archives for females born in China between 1860-1890, residing in Norway gives the following 6 results:

1. Dagny Major, (b 1868 in Saigon, Cochin, China.) Parents Fredrik Christian Seiersted Major & Ditlevine Nathalie Dovra Major. Major is family name.
2. Grace Wallem, (b 1877-NOV-16, Shanghai, China). Wallem is married name.
3. Hanna Therese Margrethe Daae, (b 1883-OCT-21, Chefos, China). Daae is family name.
4. Harriet Mary Helland Madsen, (b 1868-SEP-13, Hong Kong, China). Madsen is married name.
5. Lissy Bull (b. 1886-09-23, China). Bull is family name.
6. Olava Margrethe Schjøth (b 1886-NOV-17, China). 23, China). Schjøth is family name.

---

Reply author: JaneC
Replied on: 07/08/2018 16:19:10
Message:

Nordahl Ericksen Wallem, born 1902, a son of Grace Jansen and Haakon Wallem, was a pupil at a Bergen school in 1917 (record found at National Digital Archives). He had been living in Hong Kong when he died:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/15/pa00000000720829

Reply author: JaneC
Replied on: 07/08/2018 16:25:10
Message:

Kina is the Norwegian word for China.

Males, any name, born 1860 - 1890 in Kina:
link

In some cases, birth place is noted as "China," and other place names might apply as well.

Search portal:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 07/08/2018 16:32:40
Message:

According to the newspaper Aftenposten on 13 April 1962 page 17, Grace Wallem died on 10 April 1962. Survivors include: Nordahl and Blanche Wallem and Rita and Arne Steckmest. There might be others but this is what is in the extent of OCR read, somebody with the right IP address might find more.

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 07/08/2018 16:34:50
Message:

Males born in China between 1860-1890, residing in Norway:

1. Antonio Amundsen b 1866, Macao, China
2. Oscar Ulderup Bøe b 1868, Hong Kong China
3. Anton Ohlsen b 1870, China
4. Alfred Bonde b 1872-Dec-14, Shanghai, China
5. Ayo b 1876, China
6. Lorents Segelcke Daae b 1876-Dec-10, China
7. August Daae b 1878, China
8. Jacob Gerstenberg b 1878-Sep-01, Amoy, China
9. A. Pan b 1880, China
10. Afo/Andreas Tangva b 1880-Jul-17, Kantong China
11. Torbjørn Steinert b 1883-Mar-25, China
12. Hans Hauge Schjøth b 1885/1886-Sep-06, China
13. Erik Schjøth b 1888, China
14. Sam. M. Bull b 1890-Mar-22, China
15. Thomas Hammer Schlytter Schjøth b 1890-Mar-16, China

Reply author: JaneC
Replied on: 07/08/2018 16:36:47
Message:

The reason that Grace is of interest, is that if Carl was Carl Jansen Vang, she could possibly be a daughter. A long shot, but she isn't ruled out. Both Nordahl and Rita applied for vehicle permits in Bergen:
link

The nickname "Charlie" is of interest, as that is a nickname for the name Carl. Any slip of info from China or from the family might help, maybe.

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 07/08/2018 16:47:59
Message:

According to Aftenposten on 5 July 1926 page 5: survivors of Karen Bull who died 5 July 1926 are Lissy Bull, Rosario Bull, Samuel M Bull, t Roldfin, Edie Bugge, Th Bugge, Emely Bull and Christen... There ends OCR read.

A Lissy Bull of Tønberg also married a ship captain Otto Bull of Tenvik according to an article in 1934. Not sure if the article is announcing the beginning or the end the marriage.

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 07/08/2018 16:50:08
Message:

Lorents Segelcke Daae marries in 1906 and in the transcribed record his father is recorded as Iver Daae:

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/327/pv00000001376186

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 07/08/2018 17:16:38
Message:

According to Stavanger Aftenblad published 19 October 1929 page 2 and also in 1st Mai same date page 4
Andreas Tangva and his wife Gudrun Eugenie born Berland are celebrating a 25th wedding anniversary on 22nd.

An obituary was published in the Rogalands Avis on Friday 26 March 1965 on Andreas Tang Wa who was 85 years. No survivors mentioned by name except that it says he was married and had a large family. He came with kaptein Mejlænder.

A better obit lists these survivors of Andreas Tang Wa:
Elisabeth and Knut Enervold
Anny Hadland
Eli and Sigurd Tang Wa
Mary Hansen
Severine and Gustave Tang Wa
Fonglien and Finn Larsen
Bauthei and Tørres Tendeland
Gunvor and Harry Nødland

Reply author: michaelchangwong
Replied on: 08/08/2018 15:17:20
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jkmarler

The Norwegian Digitalarkivet has a digital set of information on pastoral acts performed in the Norwegian Seaman's mission churches which purports to contain acts from these places in China:

Anhwa
Changsha
Hong Kong
Ningsiang
Shanghai
Sinhwa
Taohwalun
Tungping
Yiyang
Yuankiang

However, I found no person named Carl (any spelling which would include Karl etc.) narrowed to China. Overall looking for any Carl / Karl in the whole base not limiting to China finds 163 Carls. It is possible that he is in the larger group using a different last name such as a patronymic name rather than a farm name.

Interesting problem....

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by jwiborg

Searching the Norwegian Digital Archives for females born in China between 1860-1890, residing in Norway gives the following 6 results:

1. Dagny Major, (b 1868 in Saigon, Cochin, China.) Parents Fredrik Christian Seiersted Major & Ditlevine Nathalie Dovra Major. Major is family name.
2. Grace Wallem, (b 1877-NOV-16, Shanghai, China). Wallem is married name.
3. Hanna Therese Margrethe Daae, (b 1883-OCT-21, Chefos, China). Daae is family name.
4. Harriet Mary Helland Madsen, (b 1868-SEP-13, Hong Kong, China). Madsen is married name.
5. Lissy Bull (b. 1886-09-23, China). Bull is family name.
6. Olava Margrethe Schjøth (b 1886-NOV-17, China). 23, China). Schjøth is family name.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by JaneC

Nordahl Ericksen Wallem, born 1902, a son of Grace Jansen and Haakon Wallem, was a pupil at a Bergen school in 1917 (record found at National Digital Archives). He had been living in Hong Kong when he died:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/15/pa00000000720829

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by JaneC

Kina is the Norwegian word for China.

Males, any name, born 1860 - 1890 in Kina:
link

In some cases, birth place is noted as "China," and other place names might apply as well.

Search portal:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by jwiborg

Males born in China between 1860-1890, residing in Norway:

1. Antonio Amundsen b 1866, Macao, China
2. Oscar Ulderup Bøe b 1868, Hong Kong China
3. Anton Ohlsen b 1870, China
4. Alfred Bonde b 1872-Dec-14, Shanghai, China
5. Ayo b 1876, China
6. Lorents Segelcke Daae b 1876-Dec-10, China
7. August Daae b 1878, China
8. Jacob Gerstenberg b 1878-Sep-01, Amoy, China
9. A. Pan b 1880, China
10. Afo/Andreas Tangva b 1880-Jul-17, Kantong China
11. Torbjørn Steinert b 1883-Mar-25, China
12. Hans Hauge Schjøth b 1885/1886-Sep-06, China
13. Erik Schjøth b 1888, China
14. Sam. M. Bull b 1890-Mar-22, China
15. Thomas Hammer Schlytter Schjøth b 1890-Mar-16, China

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by JaneC

The reason that Grace is of interest, is that if Carl was Carl Jansen Vang, she could possibly be a daughter. A long shot, but she isn't ruled out. Both Nordahl and Rita applied for vehicle permits in Bergen:
link

The nickname "Charlie" is of interest, as that is a nickname for the name Carl. Any slip of info from China or from the family might help, maybe.

---

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 08/08/2018 16:51:41
Message:

Grace Wallem seems to be a dead end. Here she is listed as a daughter to Dewitt Clinton Jansen and Ellen Jansen.

Reply author: JaneC
Replied on: 09/08/2018 14:00:04
Message:

quote:

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Originally posted by michaelchangwong

[quote][i]
Can you please advise how or from where the name “Carl Jansen Vang”, which you mentioned as a possible name, could come about? Would it be: Grace’s maiden name was Grace Jansen, and by Norwegian naming custom her birth surname could have been taken from her father’s middle name?

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Reply author: michaelchangwong
Replied on: 10/08/2018 09:15:40
Message:

A great explanation of the Norwegian naming customs!

A long shot. Is there a register in Norway of Norwegian honorary consuls or high officials who held these positions between 1870 and 1910? Carl was rumoured to have left Norway and returned to China to work as a ship pilot, and was also an honorary consul or high official with the Norwegian Consulate in China. I read somewhere that the former Kingdom of Sweden gave all Norwegian records to Norway when Norway became an independent country.

My relatives in Hongkong have also suggested that maybe a "Carl Vang" can be found in shipping registers for old shipping companies that plied the waters between Hong Kong, Shanghai, Port Arthur (Lushan) and Dalian. I have asked them to follow it up. It is interesting that the number of steamships commissioned to ply their trades between these ports and up Yangtse River grew significantly from 1870 onwards.

Reply author: michaelchangwong
Replied on: 16/08/2018 08:31:26
Message:

I have been focusing on looking for the 2 children Carl might have taken back to Norway with him. Based on information strips, that would be either two girls, or one girl and one boy.

On the males, my research hasn't completed as yet. So far, I came across three born in China/Kina who appeared to have lived with families with surnames not the same as the boy (uncle, aunty plus cousins, perhaps), or the same (uncle etc, or even own family having came back from China). So they could have been deposited with relatives in Norway after being born in China. There are two list of males: one with birthplace filtered to "Kina", and other to "China". Much longer than the list of females. I am still wrapping my head around the lists of males.

Of the shorter list of 6 females, Grace Wallem, (b 1877-NOV-16, Shanghai, China) has been eliminated as per earlier posts. I have been focussing on Harriett Mary Helland Madsen (b 1868-SEP-13, Hong Kong, China). The 4 other females left on the list, kindly supplied by Jwiborg in an earlier post, had their parents clearly identified with no 'sounds like' to "Carl Vang". There was only one record of Harriett found on the Digitalarkivet. That was sourced from the 1922 census, when she was of age 54. She was in the same residence as Amund Helland Madsen (b 1861-12-04) and Karoline Lid (b1896-FEB-01, in Lindaas). There were many 9 records for Amund: 7 census, one military ballot, and one burial (burial date 1930-NOV-17 at Domkirken parish). Amund's family surname is in fact "Helland Madsen". Harriett Mary didn't appear on any of Amund's census records except the one in 1922 (when he was of age 61), so It can be safely assumed Harriett was married to Amund at some point and changed her surname to Helland Madsen. I then tracked Karoline Lid. She was listed in the 1910 census as Karolina Arnesdatter Li (b 1895-FEB-01 in Myking, Lindaas, Bergen) with 7 other members of her family, surname Li. Is this a Norwegian surname? In the 1922 census, she was listed as Karoline Lid. Karoline was then listed in Emigrants Bergen 1874-1930, as having emigrated on 1923-AUG-28, on the line Canadian Pacific III with destination as "Amk Everett Wash"(Everett Washington USA?). So, I have eliminated her as a daughter of the Helland Madsen.

This mysterious "Harriett Mary" is getting more intriguing! Maybe she was born in Hong Kong in 1968 and did not immigrate to Norway till late in life. Maybe she went back to Norway with Carl and records containing her details aren't on Digitalarkivet except the one for census 1922 after she returned to Norway once again? Maybe she travelled back to China with Carl very early in her life? Who were her parents? What was her surname before marriage? Did she have any children? Where could have Harriett and Amund married at? So many questions. Would be grateful for any help or points as to what best to do next.

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 16/08/2018 09:03:34
Message:

From the newspapers, not sure what the significance is. Full access only to Norwegian libraries, this is the OCR:

Norsk Kundgjørelsestidende published 1 Nov 1934:

"...«om nu alene innehas av Paal Sund Madsen. Lerken,, 27. oktober 1934. Paal Sund Madsen. Harriet Mary Helland Madsen. Registrert idag. Bergens byskriverembede, 19. okt. 1934. Johan de Besche. (9M) Gudrum…"

Tilgang i norske bibliotek

Paal Sund Madsen is a nephew to Harriet by dint of her marriage to Amund. PSM is the son of Amund's brother Einar.

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 16/08/2018 09:20:47
Message:

Here is the text from the Gravminner I Norge listing for her:
Name Harriet Mary Madsen
Birth date 1309 1868
Died date 0506 1950
Strip of field Møllendal
Square K10
Row 02
Grave number 24
Obituary R.I.P.
Cemetery Møllendal
County/Municipality Hordaland/Bergen
Registrations by Slekt og Data
Transcriber Minde,Stokken,Sletten,Tellefsen,Sjursen,Opskar,Wågenes,Solheim,Lilleeng,Asbjørnsen,Askeland,Lindgren,Knutrud,Eknes,Mork,Lier
Registration finished November 2005 (2/3 av kirkegården)
Notes Ingebjørg Minde har tatt Haukeland og deler av Møllendal. Anne-M. Stokken, Steinar Sletten, Jarl R. Tellefsen, Roald Sjursen, Kjetil Opskar har tatt Grønneviken. Victor Dahl har fotografert felt G00 og E00 på Møllendal. Bidratt med bilder: Eskil Krogstad, Unni Fornes, Inger-Lise Øverås, Birger Huun, Thomas Bjørnestad Pettersen, Aili Vibeke Mjåtvedt Holst, Astri S. Tellevik
Photographer Minde,Hauge,Stokken,Tellefsen,Opskar,Dahl,Wågenes,Solheim,Knutrud,
About the registration Gravminnene

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 16/08/2018 09:28:21
Message:

Amund Helland Madsen was still single in 1910:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01036708058565

Married when he died in 1930:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/267/pg00000000489587

Marriage report in newspaper Bergens Tidende Thursday 18 April 1916 page 2 col 3:


"Egteskap blev igaar I Denmark ingaat mellem enkefru Sass og kjøpmand Amund Helland Madsen."

Reply author: michaelchangwong
Replied on: 16/08/2018 11:32:49
Message:

Jackie, I noticed the bottom of the Gravminner listing read in part (using Google translator), "...Victor Dahl has photographed fields G00 and E00 at Møllendal." I wonder if that means photographs of the gravestones had been taken? Harriet's grave is indeed in the strip of field Møllendal. It would be a great help if a photo of Harriet's headstone is available, as there might be information on the stone that can help further. Many thanks.

Reply author: Borge
Replied on: 16/08/2018 13:19:32
Message:

I would suggest starting with identifying Carl Vang in the Norwegian records prior to traveling to China. It would be a great lead if we could find the year of birth. There are a just a few candidates.

It does not appear that we can find a good match for Carl Vang (or Wang) in the the Norwegian records within the time-frame when he should have returned to Norway from China. Neither do we find the children. Could he have taken them elsewhere when he left China? Australia or America? How sure are you that they actually returned to Norway?

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 16/08/2018 15:42:50
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by michaelchangwong

Jackie, I noticed the bottom of the Gravminner listing read in part (using Google translator), "...Victor Dahl has photographed fields G00 and E00 at Møllendal." I wonder if that means photographs of the gravestones had been taken? Harriet's grave is indeed in the strip of field Møllendal. It would be a great help if a photo of Harriet's headstone is available, as there might be information on the stone that can help further. Many thanks.

---

Reply author: JaneC
Replied on: 16/08/2018 16:32:16
Message:

Harriet Mary born 1868 in Hong Kong,

Found in registry of inhabitants of Copenhagen:
link


Married to Christian Carl Vilhelm Sass,
born 2-8-1862, Itzehoe, Holstein
Occupation: Skibsmægler


Marriage record
Christian Karl Wilhelm Sass
Harriet Mary Helland
link

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 16/08/2018 17:06:25
Message:

Harriet Mary Helland in Denmark census 1880:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QL64-3K3T

Reply author: JaneC
Replied on: 16/08/2018 17:46:25
Message:

Harriet Mary Helland lived in Copenhagen with parents in 1885. Harriet is the only child born in Hong Kong.
George Johan Helland, listed as father, born in Norway, occupation: Husfader forh.Consul,Telegraf Embedsmand
1885


Interesting that a Carl Vang was lodging
in Copenhagen in 1885,
occupation Skibsbygmester
listed as born 1849 in Aalborg
(where Harriet was in 1880)
1885


A description of the work of George J Hellend in China:
"....George J. Helland, a Norwegian took over as head of the firm and as the Danish consul. Additionally, Helland was also consul for Sweden and Norway. In c.1876, he became the General Agent (China) for Det Store Nordiske Telegraf-Selskab (Great Northern Telegraph Company) of Vice Chairman of the Chamber of Commerce in 1869."
http://hongkongsfirst.blogspot.com/2009/09/sutherland-13.html?m=1


Is it certain that the children taken away from China by Carl Vang were his own children? Could it be that taking them to (supposedly) Europe was a task he undertook for another?

Reply author: michaelchangwong
Replied on: 21/09/2018 10:02:39
Message:

Hi. I have now subscribed to two Danish genealogy websites. After some discussions there, it became apparent that Carl Vang might not be the person who could be our g-g-grandfather. He was, in fact, really a shipbuilder born, raised and worked in Denmark. He was drafted for military service for about 6 months. There were no records of him visiting China, or joined the merchant navy. Carl bought a shipyard in Denmark when he was in his 20s, and died in Denmark at a relative young age of 37. Also, he didn't quite fit the general profile given in the stories and anecdotes by our older relatives in Hong Kong. It might be that the sound-like on 'Carl Vang' came up in just that, stories and anecdotes.

Nevertheless, further research in one of the Danish forums revealed that Harriet Mary Helland, who was identified here in Norway Heritage, was brought back to Denmark with a younger brother in 1871. The topic can be found, here: https://www.slaegtogdata.dk/forum/index.php?topic=140459.0 . Their mother had died in Hong Kong earlier in 1871, so the two young children were brought back to Copenhagen by their father. Their father remarried in Copenhagen in 1872. He was also Consul for Denmark in Hong Kong, AND Consul for The Kingdom of Sweden and Norway in Hong Kong, from 1862 to 1872. He was born in Bergen, Norway in 1830. So, there are many things I like about him, George Johan Helland, that fits our family's stories and anecdotes. He acquired Danish citizenship in 1889, stating that he arrived in Denmark in 1871.

It is fortuitous that Harriet Mary Helland popped up in Norway later in life! If she hadn't, I would think to would be harder to find our ancestors based on stories and anecdotes that got embellished over the age.

I did a search for George Johan Helland on digitalarkivet. I was puzzled when I found no records of him there, or on familysearch.com, relating to his younger years in Norway. That is strange. Can anybody help throw some light on this?

Many thanks.

Reply author: JaneC
Replied on: 21/09/2018 10:53:44
Message:

Hi, nice to see you again michael.

There certainly could be a connection between George Johan Helland and Carl Wang.

The posted 1885 census lists GJH as born in Bergen 1831.

The following biography was included in the post that was the last in this thread in August.

"George Johann Helland, John Burd and Co.
.... George J. Helland, a Norwegian took over as head of the firm and as the Danish consul. Additionally, Helland was also consul for Sweden and Norway. In c.1876, he became the General Agent (China) for Det Store Nordiske Telegraf-Selskab (Great Northern Telegraph Company) of Vice Chairman of the Chamber of Commerce in 1869."

In the family story (two children sailed back to Norway with Carl Wang), is it possible the children could have been someone else's children (e.g., children of George J Helland or someone similar). How certain is the family story that the children were indeed Carl's own biological children.

Searching the database of foreigners who applied for Danish citizenship turned up only one Helland, as follows - born in China in1869, arrived Denmark 1871, applied for citizenship 1889.

Efternavn:. Helland
Fornavn: G.D.
Erhverv: Student
Fødeland: Kina
Fødselsår:. 1869
I DK fra: 1871
Bopæl, lokalitet: København
Amt, region:. København og Frederiksberg
Lov af: 01 03 1889
Tillæg: B
Løbenr: 118


The above is probably George Douglas Helland, who was born in Hong Kong.

1880 Danish census George Douglas Helland
link

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 21/09/2018 11:46:24
Message:

If all goes well, this is a link to a Georg Johan Helland born in Bergen in 1830:

http://gda.arkivverket.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=1&filnamn=dp12011816&gardpostnr=9702&personpostnr=29094&merk=29094#ovre

9702 1830 baptism date 0905 Nykirken 3-5
29093 Barn Georg Johan m birthdate 1804
29094 Far Kjøbmand Amund Helland 3-5
29095 Mor Malene Helland f.Hansdatter

Here is the information on a Peder Carl Wang baptized Bergen:
http://gda.arkivverket.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=1&filnamn=dp12011816&gardpostnr=3387&personpostnr=10149&merk=10149#ovre
År Døypt Kyrkje/sokn
3387 1821 1108 Korskirken
Rolle Stilling Førenamn Etternamn Kjønn Bustad Fødd dato Ekte/uekte
10148 Barn Peder Carl m 0108 u
10149 Far lieutnant Erich Thurman Wang 23-91
10150 Mor Lucie Albrichtsen

#95 Peder Carl
SAB, Korskirken Sokneprestembete, H/Haa/L0013: Parish register (official) no. A 13, 1815-1822, p. 77
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070321630447

And a child of Peder Carl Wang:
Lp.nr. År Døypt Kyrkje/sokn
25266 159 1853 1112 Domkirken
Rolle Stilling Førenamn Etternamn Kjønn Bustad Fødd dato
75775 Barn Petter Oluf m 3108
75776 Far Styrmand Peder Carl Wang 17-45
75777 Mor Olives Petrine Spørck

#159 Petter Oluf
SAB, Domkirken Sokneprestembete, H/Haa/L0020: Parish register (official) no. B 3, 1851-1859, p. 46
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070223670394


Erik Wang in 1801 census:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01058232006519

Erik Wang's death in 1876:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/267/pg00000000165295

Erik Wang's marriage to Lucie Albrigtson:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/327/pv00000000125102

Peder Carl Wang's marriage:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/327/pv00000000929791

Reply author: JaneC
Replied on: 21/09/2018 12:11:10
Message:

George Johan Helland and Carl Wang could be related, or acquainted, or share a social or professional network in Norway or China - making the Peder Carl Wang found by jkmarler rather appealing.

Birth of a son Andreas Reinhard Wang in 1853 to a Carl Peder Wang, malermester, and Juliane Magrethe Lindrup, baptized at Korskirken in Bergen:
link

A Geni family tree for Amund Helland, son Georg J Helland:
link

A biography of Amund Helland, from Wikipedia

"Amund Helland (17 August 1786 – 20 August 1870) was a Norwegian merchant and leading trader in Bergen, Norway...
"Helland was born in the parish of Bjerkreim in Rogaland, Norway. He was the son of Eivind Helland (1749-1833) and Elen Abeland (1751-1833). He grew up on the Helland farm in the area. In 1804, Hans Nielsen Hauge visited Bjerkreim. Helland was gripped by Hauge's sermons and went with him to Bergen. He became a devote Haugean (haugianere) and worked with Hauge for three year. He next went to sea for several years. In 1813, he returned to Bergen where he became a leading merchant. He developed his own fleet and traded in grain carried in his ships to Trøndelag returning with fish from Northern Norway...
"He was first married to Talette Vig (1786–1820), with whom he had three children. Two years after the first wife's death, he married her younger sister Malene Vig (1790–1859) with whom he had six children. He was the grandfather of geologist, Amund Helland. He lived in Bergen until his death in 1870."
link

Reply author: michaelchangwong
Replied on: 18/10/2018 11:40:42
Message:

Hi. I am now working on the basis that "Carl Vang" is likely not be the person we are after. There are a bit of uncertainties and conjectures in my Auntie's book. If we somehow will reach a conclusion that GJ Helland is not the ancestor, then I will revisit the possibility of the Peder Carl Vang you have suggested. Thanks for understanding.

I've been trying to find a picture of George Johan Helland through a number of channels, for the purpose of comparing it to ours. No luck so far. I will keep on trying.

Helland was appointed as Consul for Sweden and Norway in Hong Kong (1866-73). I contacted the Foreign Ministry of Sweden, who suggested that I contact the Swedish National Archives (Riksarkivet SVAR), who holds their old records. The archives sent me the following from an old book they have:

Link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/12j62efxlk03j5q/Almquist.%20G.%20Helland%20konsul%20Hong%20Kong.pdf?dl=0

My Swedish is non-existent. With the help of Google Translator, I could make out that the archives noted Helland emigrated to America around 1850. That would place him at 20 years of age, and might explain why he did not appear in censuses in Norway after 1850. I tried looking for him on the emigrants database on this Norway Heritage website, but he is not there.

I could also make out that in 1856 he was in San Francisco (?) Then he worked for the Danish company John Burd and Company in Hong Kong starting in 1858. What a well-travelled Norwegian, given that it was in the 1850s ! He then remarried in Copenhagen and lived there, went to Shanghai, China, then back to Copenhagen.

Cheers.

Norway Heritage Community : http://www.norwayheritage.com/snitz/