Dahl (Trondheim/Vardø)

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Topic:

Topic author: Erik Carsten
Subject: Dahl (Trondheim/Vardø)
Posted on: 07/02/2009 00:24:46
Message:

Am starting a new thread. Don't worry, it won't be as long as the other on I started.

I need help translating a few thing here.Emmigration to Vardø, Finnmark #1-5

Can you tell me what is written off to right side of this group in the second column?

Thank you in advance for your kind interest in my family research.

Replies:

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 07/02/2009 01:24:16
Message:

Not sure what´s written after John Olsen, could be a farm name in Vaage where he was born, likely todays Vågå parish in Gudbrandsdalen, Oppland county.

Name: Snedker - Carpenter John Olsen age 26 1/2
The reason for the migration: He intend to stay on Kiberg as a carpenter
From where and where born: Coming from Hammerfest (town) born in Vaage

Kåre

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 07/02/2009 01:54:53
Message:

Kaarto.

I'm sorry, it is the group below #1 on top, #1 through #5 beginning with Rasmus Andersen Dahl....

thank you.

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 07/02/2009 02:59:47
Message:

The columns title is "Stated purpose for the immigration"

For Rasmus Andersen Dahl it reads: Hensigten var indtil videre aa søge beskjeftigelse paa stedet som Arbeider
In English: The purpose was for the time being to seek employment on the location as a worker.

Jan Peter

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 07/02/2009 13:18:18
Message:

My fault Erik, sorry, I should have read your posting more carefully.
Vardø town was established in connection to Vardøhus Fortress from 1306.

Kåre

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 08/02/2009 04:58:33
Message:

Yes, I would like to go there someday. It must be on of the most extreme places in the world for a city.

Could you have a look at the records for #38 and #39 Anders Torgersen and Siri Sivertsdatter? What are the entries off to the right columns say? Where are they coming from?

Thank you.#38 and #39 Anders Torgersen and Siri Sivertsdatter

Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 08/02/2009 08:26:22
Message:

#38 is "Arbeid." (worker) Anders Torbergsen (Torbersen), #39 "hustru" (wife) Siri Sivertsdatter and 3 Børn (children)
they came from Strinden with the intention "ligesaa" same as above which was "at søge Næring" to get into business. ("at søge Tjeneste" to get work was an alternative)

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 08/02/2009 11:52:45
Message:

You are right Erik, Vardø by the Barents sea isn´t Florida, but the Barents sea has one of the major areas for cod fisheries and probably one of the worlds largest undiscovered remaining oil and gas reserves will bring progress and development to this area.

Kåre

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 08/02/2009 18:34:38
Message:

is strinden a suburb of Trondheim?

O.K. I was wondering why they didn't name the children on the list.....but you caught the "3 born". Thank you.

The Children must be:

Torberg Andersen b. 6-11-1837 (Horg, Sør Trondelag)
Gunnild Andersdatter b. 6-16-1840 (Horg, Sør Trondelag)
Ingeborg b. 1843 (Baklandet)

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 08/02/2009 19:25:39
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Erik Carsten

is strinden a suburb of Trondheim?

---

Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 08/02/2009 19:57:56
Message:

Torberg Andersen born June 11, bapt June 25 1837 (Horg i Støren, Sør Trøndelag) #15
Gunnild Andersdatter born June 19 1840 (Horg i Støren, Sør Trøndelag) #14
Ingeborg Andersdatter born Jan 27 1843 (Lade i Strinda, Sør Trøndelag) #27

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 10/02/2009 21:22:55
Message:

Thank you Eibache. Ingeborg Andersdatter is an ancestor of mine. I read her parents as Anders Torbergsen Rambrout and Siri Sivertsdatter....but I cannot understand what else is written about her name...

Also, is there a farm book that details the histories of the Trondheim people?

thank you.

Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 10/02/2009 22:49:31
Message:

There seems to be some mixups in the writing of the place they were living, I read it Rangbroud under Rosenborg, before her name is written Kone - wife.
I am not the one to answer questions on available farm books/bygdebøker, sorry.

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 11/02/2009 14:32:25
Message:

I assume it means that Anders Torbergsen was from Rambrout in Støren and the christening was taken place in Bakke church which Rosenborg Congregation was a part of, located to the eastern side of the river Nidelven.

The next is hard to read.
Anders Torbergsen Rambrout married Siri Sivertsdatter age 27 on Dec. 28. 1836 in Horg sub parish in Støren, she was from Bordal in Sokndal.
Fathers: Torberg Olsen Rambraut and Sivert Berntsen Bordal, #15

Bordal - Berdal in 1801 census for Støren. Sivert Berntsen age 30, farmer and soldier married to Ingeborg Andersdatter, 4 children, three servants and his parents Bernt Sivertsen and Maren Olsdr, Lars Sivertsen "Inderste" is Bernts brother. Siri was from the wedding record born about 1809, most likely Siri age 1 died young.

Sivert Berntsen was a enlisted soldier in 2. Nasjonale batallion, Størenske Company, 2. Trondheimske Regiment (Organization of the Norwegian army 1789-1810).

Actually Siri Sivertsdatter Berdal was christened "Sexagesima" Feb. 25. 1810 in Sokndal, 3 column 5. from top.

Kåre

Reply author: Hopkins
Replied on: 11/02/2009 15:21:51
Message:

quote:

---

Also, is there a farm book that details the histories of the Trondheim people?

---

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 11/02/2009 17:44:06
Message:

Thank you Kåarto.

These Sør Trondelag ledgers seem more difficult to read than the Hallingdal records I have been pouring over this past year.

I don't see where you get the "Sexagisma". I see that name but it seems as if that is another child. I see Sirri two lines down below that, however.....

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 11/02/2009 17:48:09
Message:

Thank you, Hopkins, for pointing out these resources. Very helpful.
Erik.

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 11/02/2009 19:07:49
Message:

I agree, the wedding record is very hard to read, its more information after his name, do you understand what it´s written Einar.

The christening record from 1810.
1. Column has the dates, 2. column is the boys, 3 column is the girls, 4. column is the parents.
Saxagesima is Lathin for the last Sunday before Fast, the nex Sunday in 1. column is "1 Søndag i faste" 1.Sunday in Fast, Saxagesima was Sunday Feb. 25 in 1810.

It was 6 christenings on this Sunday, 3 boys and 3 girls, Siri, Gunild and Ingeborg.
In 4.Column after Siri you will see her parents, Sivert Berntsen and Ingeborg Andersdatter (it correspond with the 1801 census for Berdal), bacause of that we can assume that Siri age 1. in 1801 census died young.

From the LDS for Rambraut (many records) we find Anders Torbergsen Rambraut born 1805, means born about since the exact day isn´t recorded, I assume the date is taken from the age on his death record.

Kåre

Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 11/02/2009 19:45:51
Message:

quote:

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Actually Siri Sivertsdatter Berdal was christened "Sexagesima" Feb. 25 1810 in Soknedal

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Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 11/02/2009 20:32:16
Message:

Of cource she was Einar, my right eye most have been closed.
Even the godparents in the last column, one of them, Siri Bordal, is likley Siri Ellefdatter age 41 on one of the 3 Bordal farm in the 1801 census.

Kåre

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 11/02/2009 22:12:15
Message:

Anders father "Hagen"..........

Is this their family name?

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 11/02/2009 22:59:09
Message:

Yes, Thorberg Olsen was Torberg Hagen, he married Gunnild Andersdr Rambraut, Gunield nr 3698 age 37 in 1801 born to Cottager Anders Pedersen age 49 and Kierstina Sterchensdr age 56.
From the wedding record Nov. 24. 1805, see Eibache here above, best men Sergeant Ole Rambraut is top of the list in 1801 and Ole Pedersen Rambraut is farmer nr 3700 in 1801.

Introdused mean the mother was introdused to the congregation in a ceremony where she was met at the outer door by the priest and lead into the church on her 1. visit to the church after a child birth.

Kåre

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 12/02/2009 02:37:05
Message:

This is a record of Anders Dahl going to fish in Vardø. Anders age 29 1/2 is the one who married Ingeborg Andersdatter.

This is a very confusing family because both Anders and Ingeborg had a father whose name was Anders. And both of their mother's family name was Sivertsdatter...so you know what I mean.

But can you see the #13, Ingeborg Andersdatter. Can you prove that she was the sister to Anders? I believe that #17 is Anders mother........#13#17

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 12/02/2009 02:42:24
Message:

.....I believe I have found most of Anders Dahl brothers and sisters:

Sirri born 2-27-1824
Rasmus born 6-27-1827
Sivert 10-10-1829
Anders 2-6-1835--who married Ingeborg. Ancestors of mine.
Ellev 2-4-1838
Berit 3-10-1841
and Halvor 3-14-1848.......

Maybe Ingeborg on previous post was also a sister born in 1833?

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 12/02/2009 07:16:40
Message:

The adults were born in Støren, the children in Sydvaranger, todays Sør-Varanger.

The migration records says.
#13 widow Ingeborg Andersdatter Uldstrøm, to keep her brother house, she came from Sydvaranger (a municipality in Finnmark county)
#14, 15 and 16 , children Karen, Bertine and Anders from Sydvaranger, all born in Sydvaranger
#17 Widow Gunnild Sivertsdatter, to live with her son, she came from Sydvaranger, born in Støren
#18 Bachelor and Fisherman Anders Andersen Dahl (his father was Anders ?) To make a living on fishing, he came from Sydvaranger, born in Støren

To find the children we has to enter Vadsø parish, Sydvaranger was a part of Vadsø parish before 1864 including Kirkenes town.

Anders age 8 in the migration record, his father was Anders Nilsen, he was born on Øvre (Upper) Jacobselv, christened August 9. 1857, #32, the mother; Ingeborg Andersdatter Dahl, Øvre Jacobselv.

The emigration record tells Ingeborg Andersdatter should work for her brothers in his house, in 1865 she lived lived at Nils Nilsen´s recidence (BIL?), farmer and Fisherman at Jacobselv born in Stange, Hedmark County, Ingeborg as a widow on Jacobselv in 1865 with two of the children, Karen and Anders.
Jacobselv is a small population centre and former fishing village in Vadsø municipality

Kåre

Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 12/02/2009 07:35:41
Message:

quote:

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Rasmus born 6-27-1827

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quote:

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Sivert 10-10-1829

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quote:

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Ellev 2-4-1838

---

quote:

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Anders 2-6-1835

---

quote:

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Berit 3-10-1841

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quote:

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Halvor 3-14-1848

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Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 12/02/2009 08:10:57
Message:

Kåarto. This is interesting. I had thought that maybe Anders Dahl had first arrived in Vardø in 1865, but you say he is coming from another area of Finnmark. Can you see when he arrived in Finnmark initially?

Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 12/02/2009 08:16:38
Message:

Anders parents Anders Rasmussen and Gunnild Sivertsdatter married June 8 1824, see #11
Anders Rasmussen and his parents and siblings in 1801

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 12/02/2009 08:18:31
Message:

#8 Marriage of Anders Andersen Dahl and Ingeborg Andersdatter RAmbrout

here is a record of Anders and Ingeborg's marriage in VArdø....

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 12/02/2009 08:34:54
Message:

This is confusing Einar, all the Anders/Andersen names, can´t find Anders Dahl, is there a name sake or a wrong spelling in some of the record?
Also Bertine age 10 in the migration record, christened July 23. 1855 (Vadsø parish 1854-80 page 10, #35) was born to Anders Nielsen, did Ingeborg Andersdatter became a widow two times and married 2. time to Anders Nielsen?
The same for Karen age 11 in the migration record, born to Anders Nilsen Jacobselv christened July 9. 1854 (Vadsø 1854-80 p. 3, #32)

Ingeborg Andersdatter Dahl from the migration record, born in Støren was born to Anders Rasmussen, see wedding record #7, she was Anders Dahls sister and widow Gunnild Siversdatter, age 62 in the migration record was her mother.


The "other" Ingeborg Andersdatter Rambraut, see link above, born in Lade/Strinden married to Anders Dahl was born to Anders Torbergsen Rambraut.

Anders Dahl lived in Vardø in 1865, Fisherman in Søndre Vaag street, unmarried with his mother, Bertine age 10 in the migration record (herv father was dead) lived by her grandmother and uncle as a foster child.

Kåre

Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 12/02/2009 10:05:02
Message:

quote:

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Anders Dahl lived in Vardø in 1865, Fisherman in Søndre Vaag street, unmarried

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Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 12/02/2009 10:28:21
Message:

Then this should finally be correct Einar, a break did well to me.

Kåre

Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 12/02/2009 13:05:38
Message:

Anders mother Gunnild Sivertsdatter Berdahl was bapt Nov 21 1802, see 23 S.e.T. on right hand page here
Gunnild Sivertsdatters parents Sivert Berntsen, Bordal and Ingeborg Andersdatter Bræk was engaged 2nd day of X-mas 1792 and married April 8 1793, see right hand page here

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 12/02/2009 19:54:12
Message:

The Sydvaranger records only start in 1863? Is there another parish with records prior to this?

I am interested to KNow when Anders Dahl went to Finnmark, as I thought he went to VARDø directly from Trondheim, now I understand he came from another village in Finnmark, but I don't know when he came originally,

Perhaps the very first post in this thread might be helpful, these people in that post also appear to be relatives? But am not sure.

Thank you.

Reply author: Hopkins
Replied on: 12/02/2009 20:36:31
Message:

That type of question is just what the LDS Family History Library catalog is quite useful for. Using the modern spelling you can enter "Varanger" in the Place Search option of that catalog. If you then choose the Sør-Varanger, Finnmark area of the options presented and read the notes under the topic Church Records you will learn what name the earlier church records for the area are listed under.
The historical connections of Sør-Varanger are also listed in the Wikipedia page linked for you by someone earlier in this thread.

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 12/02/2009 21:03:52
Message:

thank you Hopkins. I did as you suggested and I understand. I need to look under the Vadso parish prior to 1863.

Thank you!

Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 13/02/2009 00:04:58
Message:

Anders and his mother was witnesses when Ingeborgs daughter Bertine was baptized July 23 1855, see #35
Ingeborgs oldest daughter Karen was baptized at home July 9 1854 by Anders Dahl, see #32

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 13/02/2009 00:32:19
Message:

I see Anders son, Siverts, confirmation in Horg i Støren in 1845 but after that I see nothing of the family there....

I am thinking they may have left Sør Trondelag sometime after 1845....

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 13/02/2009 00:49:10
Message:

ah! here is Anders confirmation.....in Vardø!

1851 #2 Ander Andersen Confirmation

I didn't think to look in Vardø as the emmigration records showed he came in 1865?

He must have left and come back again....

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 13/02/2009 00:51:50
Message:

and here is his brother, Ellev's confirmation record, also in Vardø!

1853 #2 (Ellev's Confiramtion record)

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 13/02/2009 01:21:37
Message:

the migration records for Vardø from 1843-1850 are missing!

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 13/02/2009 01:37:21
Message:

.....so I go back to Houg i Støren uttflydtes and I find Anders and his family leaving the County for Trondheim in 1850.

With Anders and his wife Gunnild are their 4 children: Ingeborg, Anders, Ellev, and Halvor.....Sivert is listed just abov them!

missing are Siri, Rasmus the 2 oldest....

#15

Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 13/02/2009 12:35:50
Message:

Halvor was confirmed in Vadsø (Sydvaranger) 1860, see #1

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 13/02/2009 19:57:47
Message:

Thank you eibache for all of your help. I see Halvor in 1865 census was a musketer (foot soldier) in 1875 he was a jordbruker, which I guess means farmer.......is there any other nuance to the use of this word?

By the way, I wanted to ask you if Horrig and HORG were the same place.

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 13/02/2009 23:40:56
Message:

I am learning more and more about this family. It looks as if a couple of Ander b.1835 brothers stayed on in Finnmark, Sør Varanger to be exact.

#11 Sivert Andersen Dahl died June 11, 1892 (Sør Varanger)


Rasmus died on November 11, 1900 (Sør Varanger)

#20 Halvor Dahl died on July 2, 1913

in all cases can you read what the cause of death was?

thank you.

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 14/02/2009 00:24:08
Message:

[
Anders age 8 in the migration record, his father was Anders Nilsen, he was born on Øvre (Upper) Jacobselv, christened August 9. 1857, #32, the mother; Ingeborg Andersdatter Dahl, Øvre Jacobselv.
_______________________________________________

What a coincidence! Look at the child Anders born right below, #33. His father is Ingeborg's brother!

They both named their son Anders!

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 14/02/2009 02:23:05
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by eibache

Anders mother Gunnild Sivertsdatter Berdahl was bapt Nov 21 1802, see 23 S.e.T. on right hand page here
Gunnild Sivertsdatters parents Sivert Berntsen, Bordal and Ingeborg Andersdatter Bræk was engaged 2nd day of X-mas 1792 and married April 8 1793, see right hand page here

---

Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 14/02/2009 09:05:25
Message:

Horrig, Horig and HORG - same places
Cause of deaths:
Sivert - (tæring) tuberculosis
Rasmus - (ansigtskræft) cancer in the face
Halvor - (lungetuberkulose) tuberculosis

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 15/02/2009 02:03:23
Message:

thank you.

Can you see any information about Olaf Halversen Dahl, b. 1878 immigrating to America in 1900. He is listed on the Sør Varanger uttflytte #1 in the year 1900#1 Olaf Halversen Dahl

Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 15/02/2009 19:23:00
Message:

Bachelor and farmers son Oluf Halvorsen Dahl Jakobselv born 1878 moved out August 1900. He got migration attestations containing birth and confirmation date and his parents name and profession dated August 2.

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 16/02/2009 22:02:45
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Erik Carsten

and here is his brother, Ellev's confirmation record, also in Vardø!

1853 #2 (Ellev's Confiramtion record)

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Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 16/02/2009 23:38:41
Message:

quote:

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Berit 3-10-1841

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Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 17/02/2009 08:54:33
Message:

quote:

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Berit did not make the journey to Finnmark. I am trying to find out what happened to her as well. Do you think this record could show her passing in 1845?

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Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 18/02/2009 20:53:12
Message:

Thank you for your confirmation.

Now, for Ellev Andersen. I have looked and looked and I found this birth record for Carl Edvard born July 22, 1866. His parents look to be Nordmand Ellef Andersen Dahl and Gurine Marcelie Charlote Mikkelsdatter?

I tried to find these people on the 1865 and 1875 census but no luck......what do you think? What does Nordmand represent. Is this his name? Or where he comes from? Why can't I find them in the census information?

NO # for birth of Carl Edvard (in between #36 and #37

Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 18/02/2009 22:37:00
Message:

Interesting find, I think "Nordmand" simply means Norwegian, I assume he and his wife (who could very well have been Finnish) were not living in Norway. Jakobselv is the border with Russia and maybe they were living on the "wrong" side of the river, but still baptized cildren in the Norwegian church. Ellevs brother Sivert was living at one of the Jakobselv farms and can be found in the 1865 census.
Ellef Andersen Dahl, 23 1/4 years old married Marcelie Charlotte Michaelsen 16 1/2 years old on June 23 1861, see #3

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 18/02/2009 23:01:35
Message:

yes, this might be Anders and Sivert Dahl's brother. I did a google on Dahl and Grense Jakobselv and I came across a very interesting website that dealt with Titantic survivors. Apparently there was a Karl Edward Dahl b. 1866 who was on the Titanic and there are websites that research the people who were on board.

That is how I found his birth record and I posted it for you to see.

The write-up on Karl Dahl states his father was Nordmand Ellef Andersen Dahl who was born in 1838, just like the Ellev Dahl we researched earlier. The write-up states that he moved to Grense Jakobselv to help build King Oscar II chapel........

The article further claims that Ellef and his wife Marcelie had 10 children......as we cannot find them on any census record in 1865 or 1875 your theory makes the most sense.......

Apparently, most of this family ended up in in Fingal, North Dakota. I will attempt to contact the local historical society there to confirm if these people are indeed relatives.

edited to show the town in North Dakota as FINGAL.

Thank you.

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 18/02/2009 23:37:41
Message:

Eibache...very interesting! Marcelie Charlotte?.......French?.......

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 19/02/2009 00:05:18
Message:

#65 Vilhemine Dahl b. 12-4-1862

Here is a child born to Ellef and Marcelie, although in this record she is listed as Marselia.....

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 19/02/2009 01:54:33
Message:

Eibache. Yes, I think you must be right. Look at baptism records for children of Ellef Andersen and his brother Halvor Andersen. They were baptized the same day in 1869 in Sør Varanger.

#34 and #35

Note they list both families are from Jakobselv (Rusland). I presume they mean in Russian Territory? That would explain why they were not found in any census.

Very interesting!

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 19/02/2009 02:01:15
Message:

Eibache,

here is another child born to Ellev Andersen Dahl named Nikolai Ragnvald, born June 26, 1871

#31

Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 19/02/2009 07:56:09
Message:

quote:

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Eibache...very interesting! Marcelie Charlotte?.......French?.......

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quote:

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Look at baptism records for children of Ellef Andersen and his brother Halvor Andersen. They were baptized the same day in 1869 in Sør Varanger.

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Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 19/02/2009 20:13:19
Message:

Thank you Eibache.

I went to the Library last night and found that in the 1910 and 1920 U.S. Census, Charlotte Dahl was found in Fingal, ND.

She was living with her daughter Vilhemine and her husband, Iver Baardsen. According to the 1910 U.S. Federal Census they had immigrated in 1904. Charlotte Dahl came 2 years later, alone at the age of 61. She came on a ship named the Virginian and her occupation was listed as seamstress.

In the 1910 Census she was listed as a widow so am assuming that Ellef passed away in Norway.

Charlotte was also knows as Carlota, as found in the 1920 U.S. Census and her death certificate. She dies on December 2, 1925 in Barnes County, North Dakota.

Have been unable to find the Church records of their immigration in 1904 and 1906, however.

Reply author: kathyzeien
Replied on: 20/02/2009 06:04:26
Message:

I don't know if you are interested but the cemetery listing for Barnes County, North Dakota are online. They can be found at www.usgwarchives.org You then can just click on North Dakota table of contents and search for what you want. Many Dahl's in the Valley City cemetery listing which include a Carleta M. Dahl. There also is a Barnes County message board on Rootsweb which has helped me before.

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 20/02/2009 18:20:03
Message:

Thank you Kathy.

That is a good site! I did find through the North Dakota Health Department Public Death Index that Carlota (Charlotte) Dahl died on 12-2-1925. I see she is buried in Valley City.

Are you from this area?

Reply author: kathyzeien
Replied on: 20/02/2009 19:47:50
Message:

Hi,
I am from North Dakota, born and raised. One advantage of a small state is they have several online records available. The death certificates when ordering or very reasonable. There is a book I checked out once in the local library called Fingal Community History but seen no mention online in the Dahl you were looking for.
I am not from the Barnes County area but had family living in the area many years ago that I researched.

Reply author: kathyzeien
Replied on: 20/02/2009 20:23:42
Message:

Erik,
Here is a site you can also search for North Dakota. It has searches for naturalization records, biographies, etc.
http://library.ndsu.edu/archives
Just click on the left column for databases and indexes and search for what you might be looking for. If you find something the cost here to is reasonable.

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 20/02/2009 22:12:27
Message:

#25 on Right Hand Side (Sirri Andersdatter)

Eibache. It looks as if Anders had a child with a women named Berit in 1819.....also from Nordtømme? Did they marry? Are there any details you can make out from the marriage record?

thank you.

Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 21/02/2009 08:28:31
Message:

quote:

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It looks as if Anders had a child with a women named Berit in 1819.....also from Nordtømme?

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Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 23/02/2009 17:43:06
Message:

Sirri Andersdatter #25 on right hand side.


Sorry Eibache. I didn't paste in my link correctly on my previous posting. I believe this must be Anders Rasmussen Nordtømme, the same person who ended up marrying Gunnild Andersdatter Bordahl.........???

Over the weekend I have been in touch with a distant relative with whom I have never met, but she was sent a book from Norway called Sletsbok Nortømme-Bordahl which give us more information on the family but it is in Norwegian and she can't read it.

She is going to copy the pages that she believes is pertinent.

We believe these to be the children of Anders Rasmussen Nordtømme and Gunnild Andersdatter Bordahl:

Siri 1824
Rasmus b. 6-27-1827
Sivert b. 10-10-1829
Ingeborg b. 1832
ANDERS b. 2-6-1835 (my ancestor)
Ellef b. 2-4-1838 (this is the child who eventually married Marcelie Charlotte Michaelsdatter and they had a child named Carl Edvard Dahl, who was a survivor of the Titanic disaster. He was actually on his way to Fingal, North Dakota to see his mother and several siblings.
Berit b. 3-10-1841 died young in 1845
Halvor b. 3-18-1844

|

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 24/02/2009 04:47:53
Message:

#32 Birth Record

Eibache, I found another child born to Anders Nilsen and Ingeborg Andersdatter. Can you make out the name of the child and the date the child was born? Also, can you make out the farm name of Anders Nilsen?

#35 Berntine

Also, can you make out the date of Birth for Berntine, #35.


thank you.

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 27/02/2009 03:13:30
Message:

[quote]Originally posted by eibache

Anders mother Gunnild Sivertsdatter Berdahl was bapt Nov 21 1802, see 23 S.e.T. on right hand page here
Gunnild Sivertsdatters parents Sivert Berntsen, Bordal and Ingeborg Andersdatter Bræk was engaged 2nd day of X-mas 1792 and married April 8 1793, see right hand page here

________________________________________________

eibache. I don't know how you can read this handwriting...I can't locate any of the two above....???

Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 02/03/2009 08:43:30
Message:

quote:

---

We believe these to be the children of Anders Rasmussen Nordtømme and Gunnild Andersdatter Bordahl:

---

Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 02/03/2009 09:06:28
Message:

quote:

---

Eibache, I found another child born to Anders Nilsen and Ingeborg Andersdatter. Can you make out the name of the child and the date the child was born? Also, can you make out the farm name of Anders Nilsen?

---

Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 02/03/2009 10:34:15
Message:

quote:

---

I don't know how you can read this handwriting...I can't locate any of the two above....???

---

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 13/04/2009 23:44:46
Message:

Dear Jan Peter.

Anders Dahl left Trondheim on April 5, 1881 on board the steamship, Tasso. He traveled alone to Osakis, Minnesota to prepare a place for his wife and children. Somebody already here in the United States purchased his ticket for him. Who was this?

Ingeborg came to America the following year with the children. Thora (15), August (11), Arnold (5) Marie (4) and Signe (11 mo.) They left Norway on October 5, 1882 on board the steamship, Hero.

Are you able to identify the ships they sailed to North America?

Thank you.

Erik.

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 22/04/2009 18:40:10
Message:

Hello Friends.

I came across something interesting in my research. One of the children of Anders A. Dahl and Ingeborg Andersdatter was named August Dahl, and he returned to Norway in 1906 for the coronation of His Majesty King Haakon the 7th in Trondheim. While there August married a girl named Louise Reese and they came back to America and settled in Banks, North Dakota.

From what I have read, King Haakon was the most revered Norwegian King, and he was a key figure in the resistance movement during World War II.

I wonder if you have ever come across other NOrwegians who traveled back to the old country for King Haakon's coornation?

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 22/04/2009 23:42:44
Message:

#25 right hand side, Sirri Andersdatter born August 21, 1819

Can somebody verify the mothers name. I am seeing Andersdatter but also maybe it could be Sivertsdatter?

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 22/04/2009 23:47:40
Message:

Parents: Anders Rasmussen & Berit Arentsdr

Jan Peter

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 23/04/2009 00:05:53
Message:

[thank you Jan Peter,

for the childs name do you read Siri or Sirri?

Also can you read the names of the people off the right side of the parents names?

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 23/04/2009 00:12:25
Message:

Yes, it reads Sirri.
Sponsors are Asbjørn Evjen and Sirri Valdum.

Jan Peter

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 23/04/2009 00:39:33
Message:

marriage record #9

this must be the marriage record of Anders and Berit? But I am not sure.....

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 27/04/2009 17:43:44
Message:

Jan Peter,

could you look at previous post please and let me know what you think. I don't trust my eyes.

thanks

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 27/04/2009 17:46:31
Message:

Dear Jan Peter or other Researchers.

Repeating request for assistance on following:

Anders Dahl left Trondheim on April 5, 1881 on board the steamship, Tasso. He traveled alone to Osakis, Minnesota to prepare a place for his wife and children. Somebody already here in the United States purchased his ticket for him. Do you know who this was?

Ingeborg came to America the following year with the children. Thora (15), August (11), Arnold (5) Marie (4) and Signe (11 mo.) They left Norway on October 5, 1882 on board the steamship, Hero.

These appear to be "feeder" ships to other Trans Atlantice ships.

Are you able to identify the ships they sailed to North America?

Thank you.

Erik.

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 27/04/2009 20:42:01
Message:

Hi,
Anders Dahl left Trondheim on May 4th, not April 5th. (In Norway, we list the date as DD-MM-YYYY)
I strongly believe he arrived America in Philadelphia on May 23rd, 1881, sailing on the S/S Illinois, departuring Liverpool.
But I can't locate him in the indexed register, so his name might be wrongly transcribed.
You should check the original manifest to see if he is listed.

Ingeborg and the children left Trondheim on May 10th, not October 5th!
They arrived New York on May 31st 1882 on the S/S Batavia, sailing from Liverpool.
Indexed names:
Igneborg Dall
Aug Dall
Arnold Dall
Maria Dall
Igneborg Dall (Signe Dahl?)
Thora Dahl

Jan Peter

Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 27/04/2009 21:55:19
Message:

quote:

---

this must be the marriage record of Anders and Berit? But I am not sure.....

---

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 27/04/2009 21:58:55
Message:

thank you eibach. They may never have even married.....
Regards,
Erik.

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 27/04/2009 22:02:02
Message:

Thank you Jan Peter.

Sorry about the date mixups.

In your researching, have you ever been able to find documents as to who paid for voyages as in bill bet i America, which I assume is bill paid in America?

Regards,
Erik.

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 27/04/2009 23:20:25
Message:

"Bill bet i America" means "Ticket paid in America".

It's hard to tell who paid his ticket. It could be a brother, a cousin, other family member or just an old friend who needed a farm hand.
A note on Anders Dahl's emigration says: "Reiser paa Paul Olsens ", meaning "Travelling on Paul Olsens..."

Travelling on Paul Olsen's what? It doesn't say. Possibly on Paul Olsen's ticket?
One "Paul K. Olsen (25)" from Vardø is headed for Houston Minn on June 23rd 1881. His ticket is also paid in America. Could it be that some relatives of Paul Olsen sent over several tickets, and that your Anders got one of them?
They could have got the tickets from a farmer, and then committed to work on his farm for some time.

Jan Peter

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 28/04/2009 00:44:20
Message:

o.k. tWe know that Anders originally stated his destination as Osakis, Minnesota.

Houston, Minesota is some distance away. Quite some distance away.

It would make more sense that there was a Paul Olsen near Osakis, which is not far from where Anders and his family intitially settled.

We will look for this name, Paul Olsen, in our future research.

thank you kindly for your help on this.

Regards,
Erik.

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 28/04/2009 02:36:40
Message:

Simen Br'kkan also travleing to Osakis.....

Look at the passenger above Anders Dahl. He is also listed as going to Osakis, Minnesota. Perhaps they were travleing together.

What a strange name. Can you see the origianal manifest to verify this persons name?

Erik.

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 28/04/2009 08:52:14
Message:

His name must be Simon Brækkan. (Brekkan).

It looks like the tool they've used to publish this emigrant database doesn't fully support the norwegian character "æ". I've seen this on several other emigrants as well.

Jan Peter

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 28/04/2009 15:34:46
Message:

[quote]Originally posted by jwiborg

His name must be Simon Brækkan. (Brekkan).

It looks like the tool they've used to publish this emigrant database doesn't fully support the norwegian character "æ". I've seen this on several other emigrants as well.

Jan Peter
[/quote

That is very interesting. There are relatives in the family tree from a farm called Brækøen Nedre and Bræk Sørstu. No doubt Anders knew this man, now I will try to figure out their relationship.

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 28/04/2009 15:53:19
Message:

Simen Braekken 1875 census # 12689
They also lived on the same street as Anders and Ingeborg Dahl in 1875. Sverres Gade 8

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 28/04/2009 16:02:50
Message:

This could be Simen and parents in census-1865.
The family is listed as coming from "Gudbrandsdalen". Vågå is located in that valley.

Simen Olsen
Christening: 10 DEC 1843, Vaagaa, Oppland
Parents: Ole Simensen & Tora Isaacksdr, Skjelleeie

Jan Peter

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 28/04/2009 16:12:58
Message:

something tells me these Brækkens were in Vardo in 1865. In the 1875 Census they list a son Oscar Carl who was born in 1870 in Vardo Bye. (I don't know what Bye means).

also, what does Hustømmerand mean?

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 28/04/2009 16:15:48
Message:

Vardø bye means Vardø city.
Hustømmermand is a (house) carpenter.

His wife Marie Caroline is from Troms county in Northern Norway.
Oscarl Johan is born in Vardø, while Emelie and Hjalmar looks to be born in Trondheim.

Jan Peter

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 28/04/2009 16:34:41
Message:

Oscar Johan birth record 1870 Vardø Bye #6.

Is this helpful?

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 28/04/2009 16:51:27
Message:

From the Vardø record:
Maria Caroline Nilssen and Simen Olsen Brekkan where not married at the time of Oscar Johan's birth.

I can't decipher his title, but is says Simen is at Vardøhus Festning (Fortress).

Hard to read his birthdate, but it says November 1843. Since his patronymic is Olsen, I think it confirms that he is the son of Ole Simensen & Tora Isaacksdr.

Jan Peter

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 28/04/2009 16:56:41
Message:

yes, I was going to say the same thing.

this being the case, I feel the most likely explanation could be that Anders and Simen met in Vardo and began a friendship. They moved to Throndheim and ended up living very close to each other...and eventually emmigrated to America at the same time.

Do you feel the same way?

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 28/04/2009 17:16:56
Message:

Census-1900 for Todd, MN:
Simon P Brackan 55, imm. 1881 (Simon O.)
Mary C Brackan 49, imm. 1882 (Marie Caroline)
Hawkan C Brackan 23, imm. 1882 (Haakon)
Theodor E Brackan 16
Ole M Brackan 14
John W Brackan 12
Paul H Brackan 10
Albin L Brackan 0.5

Marie Caroline and 4 children emigrating to Sauk Centre, Minnesota on April 26th, 1882
Marie Brækkan 31
Emelie Brækkan 9
Hjalmar Brækkan 7
Haakon Brækkan 4
Oskar Brækkan 1.5

Jan Peter

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 28/04/2009 17:25:42
Message:

very interesting.

Todd County is the county that borders Douglas County, where Anders and his family initially settled.

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 28/04/2009 17:45:58
Message:

And look at this! A Paul Olsen traveling to Sauk Centre with the BrÆkken family.

Paul Olsen traveling to Sauk Centre with the BrÆkken family #30622

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 28/04/2009 18:01:36
Message:

Jan Peter and Eric, a short interference;
Simen was an Artillerist at the fortress.

Kåre

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 28/04/2009 18:58:18
Message:

Jan Peter...et al who might be following this thread...I am wondering if this Paul Olsen was supposed to go with Simen BrÆkkan to America but for some reason could not. He then sold/gave his ticket to Anders Dahl who traveled in his place. Thus the "Reiser paa Paul Olsens"

Anders, thinking it might be a good idea agreed and emmigrated to America where he and Simen prepared a place for their respective families...albeit in different areas.

Then Paul Olsen came later with Simen's family, when the timing was better for him.

Does this sound reasonable?

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 28/04/2009 19:00:24
Message:

Thank you Kåre

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 29/04/2009 20:30:49
Message:

Yes, that sounds reasonable.

I have not followed Anders' ancestors to see where they come from, but Simen and Paul are from Vågå, Oppland.
So unless you find a link to Oppland county for Anders, I would say they are not family.
But probably close friends after their stay at Vardø fortress.

Jan Peter

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 01/05/2009 19:32:43
Message:

[quote]Originally posted by Erik Carsten

And look at this! A Paul Olsen traveling to Sauk Centre with the BrÆkken family.

Paul Olsen traveling to Sauk Centre with the BrÆkken family #30622
[/quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jan Peter, did the Brækken (Brackan) family also sail on the S.S. Batavia, which arrived in New York May 31, 1882?]

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 01/05/2009 20:23:44
Message:

No, they arrived New York on May 18th, sailing on the S/S State of Indiana, departuring Glasgow, Scotland.

Marie Brakken
Amalie Brakken (Emelie)
Halmas Brakken (Hjalmar)
Hakon Brakken (Haakon)
Osgur Brakken (Oskar)
Perst Brakken (Beret Brækkan, servant, 22)
Myeborg Brakken (Ingeborg Brækkan, servant, 22)

Jan Peter

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 06/05/2009 17:51:21
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jwiborg

No, they arrived New York on May 18th, sailing on the S/S State of Indiana, departuring Glasgow, Scotland.

Marie Brakken
Amalie Brakken (Emelie)
Halmas Brakken (Hjalmar)
Hakon Brakken (Haakon)
Osgur Brakken (Oskar)
Perst Brakken (Beret Brækkan, servant, 22)
Myeborg Brakken (Ingeborg Brækkan, servant, 22)

Jan Peter

---

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 06/05/2009 18:05:27
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jwiborg

Hi,
Anders Dahl left Trondheim on May 4th, not April 5th. (In Norway, we list the date as DD-MM-YYYY)
I strongly believe he arrived America in Philadelphia on May 23rd, 1881, sailing on the S/S Illinois, departuring Liverpool.
But I can't locate him in the indexed register, so his name might be wrongly transcribed.
You should check the original manifest to see if he is listed.

Ingeborg and the children left Trondheim on May 10th, not October 5th!
They arrived New York on May 31st 1882 on the S/S Batavia, sailing from Liverpool.
Indexed names:
Igneborg Dall
Aug Dall
Arnold Dall
Maria Dall
Igneborg Dall (Signe Dahl?)
Thora Dahl

Jan Peter

---

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 13/05/2009 20:21:31
Message:

record of Sigri Rambrout's death?

I tried translating but I can't quite understand. I think this is Ingeborg Dahl's parents. It looks like her mother Sigri passed away. in 1887?

Fattiglem? meaning?
Pårørande ? meaning?

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 13/05/2009 21:46:26
Message:

It's the death record of married woman Sigrid Rambrout, residence poorhouse (in Trondheim), born 1809 in Støren, Sør-Trøndelag, dead 08 Dec 1887.

Next of kin is pauper Anders Rambrout.

Jan Peter

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 14/05/2009 00:06:17
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jwiborg

It's the death record of married woman Sigrid Rambrout, residence poorhouse (in Trondheim), born 1809 in Støren, Sør-Trøndelag, dead 08 Dec 1887.

Next of kin is pauper Anders Rambrout.

Jan Peter

---

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 23/05/2009 03:13:07
Message:

Ingeborg and the children left Trondheim on May 10th, not October 5th!
They arrived New York on May 31st 1882 on the S/S Batavia, sailing from Liverpool.
Indexed names:
Igneborg Dall
Aug Dall
Arnold Dall
Maria Dall
Igneborg Dall (Signe Dahl?)
Thora Dahl


_____________________________________

Hi Jan Peter. Do you have a photo of this ship s.s. Batavia Or any history on this ship?

Thank you. Hope you are well!

Erik.

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 29/05/2009 21:57:22
Message:

Immigratino Records from Bakklandet, Trondheim #15 on right hand side

Jan Peter, I see that Gusta Hellesen and her children Sigrid Gunnhild and Hermand Rieder immigrated to U.S. in 1906...but there should have been two more children, Carl, b. July 10, 1900 and Harald Eivind born Jan 27, 1893.

Can you explain this?

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 30/05/2009 00:19:37
Message:

No, I can't explain that. All 6 are listed as passengers on the "Lake Champlain" which arrived Quebec on June 22nd, 1906:

Gyda Landur (20)
Sigrid Herji Landra (73)
Harvid E Landra (10)
Herman R Landra (8)
Sigrid Landur (8)
Carl Landra (3)

Some names and ages are due to transcription errors. E.g. Gyda Landur (20) would be your Gusta, age 40.

Jan Peter

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 30/05/2009 00:53:33
Message:

thank you so much, Jan Peter.

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 02/06/2009 21:22:43
Message:

#73 birth of Johan Peter Thomas Dahl

Hi Jan Peter, can you make out the name of the first sponsor...do you read Marie Dahl? but what is the prefix before the name?

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 04/06/2009 21:51:34
Message:

below are children of Anders Torbersen Rambraut and Siri Sivertsdatter Bordahl. Both of Støren (Horrig)

Torberg b. 6-11-1837 (Støren)
Gunnild b. 6-19- 1840 (Støren) d. 12-11- 1922
INGEBORG b. 1-27-1843 (Støren) d. 2/20/1925 (Bank, ND)
Sivert Andreas born after 1842 most likely in Baklandet area of Trondheim.


I have not been able to find any information on torberg and Sivert. Torberg would have been born in støren and Siver most likely was born in Bakklandet. Help anyone?

Reply author: Wilben Dahl
Replied on: 28/08/2009 03:00:47
Message:

Erik Carlsen or any interested person

Anders Rasmussen Nordtømme Dahl 1790 - 1855 was my great-grandfather, He was married to Gunhild Sivertsdatter Bordal 1802 - 1869. They had a large family one of their sons was Anders Andersen Nordtømme 1835 - 1940.

You seem to know this man as Anders Andersen Dahl. He was married to Ingeborg Andersdatter Torbergsen Rembraut 1843 - n1925. The family originated with Rasmus Ellevsen Vold 758 - 1801, who gave his family the farm name of Nordtømme. As the family moved away from the farm, they began using Nordtømme Dahl, with many of the family eventually dropping Nordtømme altogether. Exactly what transition the name took with, Anders Andersen is not clear to me, however this is the same person you have been discussing.

I have seen several discussions regarding a person you call “Simon Braekkan or Brekkan. This is a family that originates in Sors Tu, Bræk, near Soknedal, Midtre Gauldal, Norway. The family name revolves about “Bræk” with many variations of spelling. It is my understanding that the suffix of “en” or “an”, has a similar meaning as “of” or “in” the English use, as a prefix. In other words - it does not change the name.

I am not familiar with a “Bræken/Bræk” named Simen, however when you wonder about the relationship to Anders Andersen Dahl, I do know this - Rasmus Ellevsen Vold was married to Siri Andersdatter Bræken/Bræk 1802 - 1869. This should illustrate that they are closely related if Simon is of this same Bræk family. Further - Their cousin, Anders Olsen Brækan (Bræk) had served in the military at Vadsø Festning a fort in the most northern part of Norway in the City of Vardø. He had been to Grense Jakobselv several times to get firewood for the fort in Vardø. On a clear day Grense Jakobselv can be seen to the East from the Vardø area, 55-km (35 miles) across the Varangerfjord.

Anders Olsen Bræckan(Bræken )1736 - 1801, Anders Rasmussen Nordtømme Dahl 1790 - 1855, Hans Estensen Kveberg 1812 - 1891, and Anders Nilsen Urstrømmen 1814 - 1858, were the original settlers of Grense Jakobselv in 1851. They raised families there until the early 1900s. Few, if any people reside there year-round at this time.

Wilben Dahl

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 31/08/2009 19:23:36
Message:

Hello Mr. Dahl:
This is a very nice surprise to receive a message from you. Thank you for your information! Are you located in Norway? Who was your Grandfather from the Dahl lineage?

Regarding Simon Braekken. I am not sure about his relationship to Siri Andersdatter Braek. According to the 1875 census it shows that Simon was born in Vaage Præstegjeld Gulbransdalen. This is some distance from Horrig?

Also, in my research I believe that Anders married a Berit Arentsdatter before he married Gunnhild. I believe they may have had a child Siri born in 1819? but she may have died young as the next child born in 1824 was also named Sirri, but parents were Anders and Gunnhild. Do you know anything about this?


Thank you.
Erik.

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 24/09/2009 21:21:09
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Erik Carsten

Hi Kaarto and anybody who might be interested. This is a very sad story but there was a boy named Fredrik who died in 1903 at the age of 10. The story in the family is he- along with a brother died by ingesting some kind of poison.

I have found the church record of Fredrik's birth. He was the son of Theodore Andreas Helgesen b.1870 and Lovise Marie Reese b. 1870. Fredrik is here....Birth of Fredrik #62 (Bakklandt-Bakke 1893-1900)

I have found the church record of Fredrik's death. He is here....Fredrik Helgesen #52

There was also another boy who died. HIs name was Laurtiz. A record of his death can be found immediately after that of Fredrik...above. He was the son of John Andreas Olsen Schjelvan b. 1833 and Louise Oline Olsen b. 1868. Here is a record of this childs birth here....Friend of Fredrik (Lauritz Skjelvan ) who died on same day #73 (Birth Record)

Here is Lauritz's Family 1900 Census here...... and...Here is Fredriks family in 1900 Census here...

I guess my question is this. The cause of death of the two boys was tuberculosis or meningitis? Can poison cause this? Are these two deaths linked?

The other question I have is are these two boys related in any way.

The family story says that the mother lost 2 sons, but as I see it she lost her son and then there was her son's friend.

Thank you.
Erik.

---

Reply author: Hopkins
Replied on: 24/09/2009 23:05:23
Message:

It might make good sense for you to seek out and ask these questions of medically trained persons. I know that both tuberculosis and meningitis are very contagious and both can kill but that is the extent of my knowledge.

To know if the two boys are related you will have to investigate the ancestry of both and compare that research.

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 24/09/2009 23:41:58
Message:

Hello Hopkins. Yes, I will do that. The problem I am having is I cannot locate Church or Census records for the father of Fredrik, (Theodore Andreas Olsen b. 1870?)

I cannot find his birth-record, nor can I find his death record.

He is not living with the family in the 1900 Census. He must have died sometime between 1893 (birth of his son Fredrik) and the Census in 1900.

The Church Record of his son's Fredrik's death has a notation next to his fathers name. There is a cross and it appears the date is 11/1900? This is possible since I understand the 1900 Census was undertaken in December of that year. The family "oral" history has Theodore Andreas dying in a fishing accident.

If there is a connection I believe it to between the fathers. Lovise was from Oslo. I will continue to investigate.

Thank you.

Reply author: Wilben Dahl
Replied on: 25/09/2009 05:46:09
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Erik Carsten

Hello Mr. Dahl:
This is a very nice surprise to receive a message from you. Thank you for your information! Are you located in Norway? Who was your Grandfather from the Dahl lineage?

Regarding Simon Braekken. I am not sure about his relationship to Siri Andersdatter Braek. According to the 1875 census it shows that Simon was born in Vaage Præstegjeld Gulbransdalen. This is some distance from Horrig?

Also, in my research I believe that Anders married a Berit Arentsdatter before he married Gunnhild. I believe they may have had a child Siri born in 1819? but she may have died young as the next child born in 1824 was also named Sirri, but parents were Anders and Gunnhild. Do you know anything about this?


Thank you.
Erik.

---

Reply author: Wilben Dahl
Replied on: 25/09/2009 05:49:11
Message:

Hello Erik

Sorry I got your name wrong, and sorry it took me so long to respond. I am new at this site and just checked back. I did not expect your prompt reply.

I live in Anchorage Alaska, my father emigrated from Norway in 1903, and came to Alaska in 1910. He was the only son of Halvor Anderson Nordtømme Dahl to settle in Alaska, and the only one of the Nordtømme line that I know of. Two of his brothers settled in Texas. As was the case with most Norwegian families, about twenty percent of the family came to the United States or Canada.

My knowledge of Norway is limited, and based on what contact I have had with relatives that recently emigrated and one that lives there and speaks/writes very good English. As I pointed out in my first message, Braekkan or Brekkan. This is a family that originates in Sors Tu, Bræk, near Soknedal, Midtre Gauldal, Norway. The family name revolves about “Bræk” with many variations of spelling. I believe it to be a farm or farming area. It shows on most maps.

Like you, I do not know of a connection between, Simon and other people using that name. I am sure that you know that there may not be any connection. You did not have to be connected to the owner family to use the reference name. The number of parallels, strongly suggest that there is a connection.

You are correct. Anders had a child with his first cousin, Berit Arentsdatter. They never married and had a single child named -Sigrid (Siri) Anna Andersdatter Nordtømme.

Siri, married Halvor Petersen Evjen Midtlyng Sørtømme, and they had several children, and many decendents. Although I do not know for sure, it has been my assumption that Berit raised their child Siri, and Anders later, also named one of his daughters Siri. If you do not already know, you may find it interesting that, the original farm was Tømme. It was divided in half, when Anders’ father, Rasmus Ellevsen Vold bought the north half. He called his farm Nordtømme, nord being north, and Sør means south.

As the Nordtømme branch moved from the farm, some used Dale or Dahl in connection with Nordtømme, and slowly dropped the “Nordtømme”, although at least one continued to use Nordtømme, and emigrated using that name.

This is rather complicated, so I hope I am explaining it in an understandable way. I will be happy to provide any information that I am able to.

Wilben Halvor Dahl

Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 25/09/2009 07:43:22
Message:

quote:

---

I have not been able to find any information on torberg and Sivert. Torberg would have been born in støren and Siver most likely was born in Bakklandet. Help anyone?

---

Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 25/09/2009 08:17:11
Message:

quote:

---

Hi Jan Peter, can you make out the name of the first sponsor...do you read Marie Dahl? but what is the prefix before the name?

---

Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 25/09/2009 19:50:02
Message:

quote:

---

I am going to request a delete of my post that prompted your response. could you do the same for your post?

---

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 28/09/2009 17:20:57
Message:

Hi Kare. I was hoping maybe you or another researcher could translate what is written after the name of the father, Theodor Andreas Helgesen. I am wondering if there is anything significant in the text. Thank you.

Here is the link. #62 (Record of Fredrik's Birth)

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 28/10/2009 20:52:57
Message:

Eibache.

Can you give me some help in reading entry # 94?

I believe it is Johan Hakon. According to familysearch.org, his parents were Anders Torbergsen Rambrout and Siri Sivertsdatter. Do you make this out as well? Also, can you make out any names of the witnesses?

Thank you.


Johan Hakon #94birth record (Domkirken-Trondheim) here....

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 28/10/2009 21:19:55
Message:

Hello again, Eibache. Could you have a look at entry #107?

Sivert Andreas
born June 23, 1849, Christened August 17, 1849
Trondheim, Domkirken
Father: Anders Torbergsen
Mother: Siri Sivertsdatter

Are these the same parents as above for Johan Hakon?

thank you.

#107 here....Sivert Andreas Andersen Rambraut

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 28/10/2009 23:38:35
Message:

Hi Erik, I missed your question from Sept. 28.
The name after the father Theodor Andreas Helgesen was place of living, a street: Nedre (Lower) Baklandet.
Next column birth year 1870 for both parents, below 1870 its written in small print "Borgerlig gifte" (Civil marriage) Sept. 9. 1894.

Kåre

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 29/10/2009 02:30:01
Message:

Hi Kare: Oh a civil marriage. Perhaps that explains why I could not find a record of their marriage in the Church Book.

thank you.

Erik

Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 29/10/2009 06:55:29
Message:

quote:

---

Can you give me some help in reading entry # 94?

---

Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 29/10/2009 06:58:30
Message:

quote:

---

Could you have a look at entry #107?

---

Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 29/10/2009 07:48:24
Message:

quote:

---

I was hoping maybe you or another researcher could translate what is written after the name of the father, Theodor Andreas Helgesen. I am wondering if there is anything significant in the text.

---

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 29/10/2009 17:13:55
Message:

Hi Kåre

Here is the civil marriage record for Lovise Reese and Theodore Helgesen ....#28 (Civil Marriage Record) ....

Does the text give any additional information on Theodore Helgesen? Eibach was able to determine that he was working in a mine in Nordland about this time. Is that where he is from originally I wonder?

Erik.

Thank you.

Erik

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 29/10/2009 17:34:04
Message:

Thank you Eibache. That is very helpful. Now that I know to look in the civil sections I found his Theodore's death record. Can you translate please? Does it say how he died and also where he is from?

Theodore Helgesen #2 (1900) Civil Death Record

Thank you.

Erik.

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 29/10/2009 19:58:30
Message:

Hi Erik.
Theodor Andreas Helgesen "Maskinarbeider" Machine worker born in Leganger 1870. Confirmated April 20. 1884 in Dahl. Father: "Veiarbeidsformann" Road works foreman Knud Helgesen Leganger.

Leganger is the old name for Leikanger in Rovde parish in Møre & Romsdal County

Theodor Andreas (Knudsen) Helgesen was born April 6. 1870 to Road works foreman Knud Helgesen b. 1837 and Martha Torgersdatter b 1846 in Leganger (Leikanger), bap. in Leikanger church on Mai 13, see #12

Kåre

Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 29/10/2009 20:26:41
Message:

Theodor Helgesen died at Bergen Hospital of Carcinoid Tumor. He was a Steamer machinist when he died. Other info on his birth and marriage you know.

Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 29/10/2009 21:24:54
Message:

Lovise Marie Karoline was born Sept 1 1870 and baptized at home on Sept 19. This was confirmed in Oslo Domkirke on Oct 30 1870. Her parents were confectioner Fredrik Vilhelm Reese and Anna Sofie Larsen living in Lille Vognmandsgt 10.

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 29/10/2009 22:34:43
Message:

thank you Eibache, I have been doing some research on these people, it appears that Lovise's mother was from Sjaelland and her father was from Kiel, Schleswig-Holstein.

Question: What does Sømand mean in terms of an occupation?

Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 29/10/2009 22:50:58
Message:

Sømand today written Sjømann = Sailor.

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 29/10/2009 22:58:13
Message:

Knud Helgesen was from Røldal municipality in Hordaland County.
He worked as a road worker on farm Aahjem together with three other roadworkers in Vaylven sub parish in Rovde, see here

Kåre

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 29/10/2009 23:14:42
Message:

Martha Torgersdatter was from Herø.
She worked as a servant on farm leganger in Leganger school didtrict, Røvde/Rovde sub parish in Herø, see here

Knud Helgesen was born on Botnen to Helje Heljesen and Torbjør Knudsdatter, christened july 8. 1837.
Knud was named after his mothers father Knud, according traditional naming he had an older brother Helje (1. born son was named after his fathers father)

The church books for Røldal if you want to look after him

Kåre

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 30/10/2009 00:14:03
Message:

Thank you Kaarto, That is very helpful.

Erik.

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 30/10/2009 07:31:53
Message:

Hi.
They both lived in Nedre Baklandet ,Trondheim in 1900, Fredrik was born in Kiel Germany.
Sophie was born in Sjeland. Could be a countryside in Vestfold County.
Fredrik was blind from 189?, her run his own business occ: "Sukkerbaker" Sugar baker? Confectioner?, so perhaps they both died in Trondheim, see here

Lovise Helgesen was a widow living with her son Fredrik.

Any suggestions when or where they died Einar?

Kåre

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 30/10/2009 08:12:52
Message:

To all concerned:

To All:

For the record, Theodor and Lovise (Reese) Helgesen had another son named Knut Martin.

He was born on July 2nd, 1895 ,,,,no. 210
He died on July 6th, 1900 ...no. 82

This confirms the family history that there were two (2) boys but they both did not die at the same time.

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 30/10/2009 11:41:22
Message:

Could not find any death records Erik.

Anne Sophie was from Sjeland, Sjælland in Denmark.
She and Fredrik Wilhelm came to Norway before 1865 with two children, Anna Kirstine and Mack Ditlef born in Denmark.
Fredrik Wilhelm reese is wrongfully registerd as born in Denmark . Occ. "Droppps Fabrikant" Candy Manufcturer. They lived in "Reberbanen" Ropewalk street here

Kåre

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 30/10/2009 12:14:52
Message:

LDS records have the following information:
Anna Sopie Larsen married Fredrik Wilhelm Rege (Reese) July 23. 1859 in Fuglebjerg municipality, Sorø Amt (County, Skjælland, Denmark.
Fuglebjerg was separated from Sorø County 1970.

From the same records: Ane Kirstine Reese b. in Fuglebjerg April 23. 1859 to Fredrik Wilhelm Reese and Ane Sophie Larsen.

Fuglebjerg church from about 1370.

Kåre

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 30/10/2009 16:47:55
Message:

Hi Kåre
I apologize for not posting this information last evening, but I have found the death dates for Anna Sophie and Fredrik Wilhelm Reese. I found them in the digitarkivet under Trondheim Dødsfall i Trondheim 1908-1930 (med lakuner)

Fredrik Wilhelm Reese, page 24, number 9

Anna Sophie Reese page 64, number 26


Thank you.

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 30/10/2009 19:45:34
Message:

You are a good investigater.
Not easy to translate. Hope it make sence to you. I start with the father.

Fredrik Reese, former pastry chef.
Age 76.
Died Nov. 5. "Meldt dato" Reported date. Nov. 6. 1908.
Wife Sofie and seven children
Heirs have agreed that the widow does not need to "skifte etter mannen" part the legacy after the husband. (in the rest of her life)

Kåre

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 30/10/2009 20:51:16
Message:

Anne Sofie died at home, same adress since her husband died, Strandveien (Beach road) 19.
Born April 8. 1839.
She died Feb. 13. 1926, the death was reported to the outhorities two days later.
5 children.
"Intet å skifte" Similar to: No one exept the children was heirs. (one of those dificult points to translate, law/legal language)
Husband Fredrik died Nov. 5. 1908.

Kåre

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 31/10/2009 00:59:27
Message:

Remember Fredrik and Ane Sophie Reese´s son Mack Ditlef born in Denmark, age 2 in 1865 census for Trondheim.

Max (Mack) Ditlef Reese died March 18. 1914 in Venan?, mentioned ih his wifes Karen Reese´s death record for Trondheim 1926 (Dødsfall i Trondheim 1908-1930) page 41, nr 37 (6 children).

In 1900 they lived in Nedre Elvegade (Lower River street) in Steinkjer town with 4 children, Max was on a business trip without recidence location can be specified, occ: Travelers trader in the country side.

Kåre

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 31/10/2009 02:54:48
Message:

Hi Kåre

Thank you for that. I am getting a very good picture of Lovise and her past history. There was a very tough stretch there when she lost both her boys and husband within a 3 year period. It had to be devastating. I can tell you, however, that I think the story ended happily ever after as she married and settled in the United States and raised 3 beautiful daughters. Louise and her husband and my great grandparents got along real well I think. One of Lovise's daughters, it was said, made real good cakes. No doubt this is as a result of coming from a family whose father (Fredrik Wilhelm) was a Konditor, Sukkerbager, Drops Fabrikant and Pastry Chef and what else!

I wonder if any of his recipes have survived? I am asking her descendants and if I find any I will share it with you.

Have a great weekend.

Thank you
Erik.

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 31/10/2009 17:34:55
Message:

No wonder she made real good cakes.

She had probably inherited the resipes from Fredrik Reese, ho brought experiences and resipes from Germany via Denmark which he further developed in Norway.

Have a great weeend Erik.

Kåre

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 01/11/2009 18:04:03
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kåarto

Remember Fredrik and Ane Sophie Reese´s son Mack Ditlef born in Denmark, age 2 in 1865 census for Trondheim.

Max (Mack) Ditlef Reese died March 18. 1914 in Venan?, mentioned ih his wifes Karen Reese´s death record for Trondheim 1926 (Dødsfall i Trondheim 1908-1930) page 41, nr 37 (6 children).

In 1900 they lived in Nedre Elvegade (Lower River street) in Steinkjer town with 4 children, Max was on a business trip without recidence location can be specified, occ: Travelers trader in the country side.

Kåre
__________________________________-

Any idea at all about the location of his death "Venan"?

---

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 01/11/2009 19:59:01
Message:

I have no idea Erik.
If he died in Norway Venan is a wrongspelling.

Close to Ørebro town in Sweden it´s a place called Venan (less likely)

Kåre

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 04/11/2009 03:57:57
Message:

Kare, I need a little help in a translation please. I am attaching the weblink to the Trondheim Addressbog for 1893. Please go to page 9 and look at Teodor Helgesen.

It lists his occupation as a "Dreier". Just so you know, his occupation the year prior was listed as fabrikarbeider (Factory worker)

I searched in Norway Heritage for a reference to "Dreier" and there was a post from a few years back and I will copy it here: J

To talk about "svarvar" as wood cutter, sounds wrong to me. Svarvar are an old norwegian word for what in norwegian today are called dreier. That is all about to fasten the piece of woot in a machine and make it rotate, and then make the cutting in it while rotating.

Magne

My question is what do you believe "Dreier" means during this time of 1893?

Trondheim Addressebog 1893. Page 9 (Teodor Helgesen)

Thank you,

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 04/11/2009 04:17:35
Message:

I need a little help on another translation please. Can anyone see if there is a occupation and location of employ for the father, named Theodor Andreas Helgesen in the record of his son Knud Martin's birth?

#210 Birth of Knud Martin

Thank you.

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 04/11/2009 22:46:53
Message:

Erik,
Svarvar and Dreier is the same word, see here

Kåre.

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 04/11/2009 23:06:43
Message:

Difficult to read Theodors occ.
It´s several words between the two name lines, not sure but the last word looks like "Kirkesanger" Churchsinger.

Kåre

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 05/11/2009 00:31:20
Message:

Hi Kåre

Try this, easier to read from the Official Register.

#210, Birth of Knud Martin

Can you make out better if there is an occupation and if the father is living somewhere other than Nedre Bakklandet #13?

Thank you.

Erik.

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 05/11/2009 00:36:36
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kåarto

Erik,
Svarvar and Dreier is the same word, see here

Kåre.

---

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 05/11/2009 07:45:04
Message:

Hi Erik.
I read it as:
fyrb. omb. på "Kong Harald", Fireman, running the steam engine on SS Kong Harald, named after Harald 1.

A photo of Kong Harald (King Harald) from 1911

Kong Harald was build in Germany 1890, lenght 198 foot, 70 beds and sertified for 502 passengers, speed 12 knot, owned by "Nordenfjeldske Dampskipselskap" Nordenfjeldske Steamshipcompany and was inserted in ordinary route 1919 for the company Hurtigruta

From 1906 until the outbreak of WW1 Kong Harald sailed from the Continent regulary to Svalbard

1924 Kong Harald on the way south in dense fog collied with the nortbound Håkon Jarl outside Bødø town that sank and 14 of its passengers were killed.

Feb. 17.1929 a fire broke out after leaving Kirkenes town, Finmark County, the ship was repaired, modenized and expanded in Trondheim with more beds,the hull was painted black

During WW2 the ship was almost sunk by torpedoes, once by two Norwegian Torpedo boats from the base on Shetland, an island north of Scotland, erroneously thouhgt it was a German ship transporting cargo or soldiers
2. time a German submarine missed with two torpedoes that passed under the keel of the boat.

Kong Harald was sold to a Dutch company 1951 and was wrecked 1954 in Belgium.

Fredrik Wilhelm Reese, Konditor, Pastry chef and Anne Sofie were Knud Martin´s godparents.

Kåre

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 05/11/2009 18:59:00
Message:

Thank you Kare, very, very interesting.

Talk to you soon!

Erik

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 05/11/2009 20:39:53
Message:

Theodor was among the first crew members on Kong Harald, I hoped I could get some old photos of the crew, but it seems to be difficult.
We talk soon.

Kåre

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 14/11/2009 18:22:51
Message:

Hi Kåre. Hello, I hope all is well with you!

I think I might have found a record of death for Torberg, the brother of Ingeborg Andersdatter Rambrout (who is my ancestor) Torber was born in 1837 in Støren (Horg acturally) so the age fits.

I don't see anything certain that would indicate which family he is from, do you?

Could you have a look at this Church Record. CAn you translate what is written?

#143 (Torberg Andersen)

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 14/11/2009 20:49:17
Message:

Hi Erik,
I am fine thank you.

Torberg Andersen seems to be "not existing" in the 1865 census. This could explain why.

The date for when he was born fit well, age 26 in 1863: 1837.

This Torberg Andersen was "Ungkarl af Lekø" Bachelor from Lekø. Could be Leka, a former sub parish in Trondheim. Torberg died in "Sygehuset" the Hospital. Cause of death:
"Blodhoste" Coughing blood, could be Tuberculosis.

Lekø, ø stand for island, I have seen it written Lekø (Leka).

Kåre

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 25/11/2009 05:26:30
Message:

Hello Everybody;.

I need some help. I have looked and looked but have not been able to find the record of death for Sivert Andreas Rambrout, he might also have gone by Sivert Andreas Andersen and his father was Anders Torbergsen Rambrout and his mother was Siri Sivertsdatter

Sivert Andreas
born June 23, 1849, Christened August 17, 1849
Trondheim, Domkirken
Father: Anders Torbergsen
Mother: Siri Sivertsdatter

Sivert was baptized at domkirken in 1863 and he is in the 1865 Census in Trondheim under the name Rambrout. He is living with his parents. I have not been able to find him in the 1875 census. I have looked pretty hard in the Domkirken death records from 1865 on....but nothing.

Anybody able to find anything?

thank you.

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 27/11/2009 10:11:14
Message:

Its hard to look for Sivert in the parish records in Trondheim Erik.
There is a possibility that has not been tried.
Siverts sister Gunhild b 1840 married Iver Andreas Hellesen, they had 3 children in Vollafaldet Street in 1875.

If their baptism was found, perhaps Sivert may have been one of the godparents?

Kåre

Reply author: Hopkins
Replied on: 27/11/2009 16:32:32
Message:

Erik, you can also expand your search to other church congregations in Trondheim. Of note, you will find that the father, Anders 'Rambraut', is found in the burial records for Vår Frue Kirke in Trondheim rather than the Domkirke.

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 27/11/2009 20:19:43
Message:

Hi,
It is true Hopkins, some of the records seems to be interchangeable.

Baptism for the three Hellesen siblings gave no response. Some from the Dahl family and Anders Rambrout were sponsors.
- Gusta Amalie 1865 #45
- Johanne Alberte Sofie 1868 #36
- Johan Peder Thomas 1873 #73

Yet another opportunity.
I think maybe the 4. of the Hellesen siblings (not sure since I have not found her baptism) was Lava Marie Helene married Olsen born Hellesen, married to Lars Christian Olsen, a son Lars, living in Nedre Baklandet in 1900.

Probably without any singificance.
Smith Sivert Dahl was Johan Peders godfather in 1877.

Kåre

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 28/11/2009 14:10:39
Message:

Hi,
Sivert wasn´t one of the godparents when Lava Marie Helene Iversdatter (Hellesen) was bap in 1877, see #92

Where there other than Gusta of the Hellesen siblings who emigrated?

Kåre

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 28/11/2009 18:04:18
Message:

Hi Kåre,

No, I believe Gusta was the only one to immigrate. Regarding Sivert, the letter you translated off-line....he signed his name Sivert Andreas Torbersen, didn't he?

I will also take Hopkins advice and search in other parish records. we don't think he immigrated but that could still be a possibility.

Thank you.
Erik.

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 28/11/2009 20:15:37
Message:

Hi Erik,
yes he did.
I had forgotten that.

Sivert Andreas Torbersen.

Kåre.

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 08/12/2009 02:51:42
Message:

Hi Kåre

I am looking at birth record #228. Is there anything in the baptismal records of note in the writing off to the far right column? Also, I think I note that a couple of the sponsors were Musiker? Do you read the same thing?


Lovise Marie Karoline Reese #228
Thank you.

Erik.

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 08/12/2009 08:22:29
Message:

Hi Erik,
you are right, two of the godparets were "Musikus" todays Musiker/Musician.
Place of living was Lille Vognmansgate (street) 10. The houses are demolished and this area is todays Vaterlandparken


The godparents were:
Misician Schønemann and wife, Musician F. Hahn, Hans Larsen, "Handelsreisende" Commercial traveler ?? and Marie Schønemann.

Last column:
Lovise Marie Karoline was baptized at home Sept. 19 by "Forstander?" Superintendent? Hans Larsen: Musikus Schønemann, Musikus Fritz Hahn and Marie Schønemann.

Kåre

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 08/12/2009 16:53:17
Message:

Thank you Kåre

Can you make out the cause of death for the child in #4? (Reese)

#4

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 08/12/2009 19:55:03
Message:

Hei,
the young son died of Skarlagensfeber;
Scarlet fever.

Kåre

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 08/12/2009 21:32:52
Message:

Thank you Kare.

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 25/08/2010 04:27:46
Message:

Hello my friends! (HEI!) I hope you are all well and that you have been having a relaxing and an enjoyable summer.

I have been back to Minnesota where I was able to visit the grave of Anders Dahl at Gonvick. The gravestone is in disrepair and I am going to make an inquiry with the Cemetery Sextant on possibly fixing it. I also was able to visit the land where this family homesteaded and was able to visit with the current owner.

I have a question regarding this family, as a letter that Kare translated off line sometime ago seemed to imply that around 1885 one of the daughters may have returned to Norway?

Can anybody find a Thora Dahl, b. April 20, 1867 in Vardø returning to visit her grandparents in Trondheim around 1885? Just curious.

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 26/08/2010 08:02:13
Message:

Hello Erik,
good to hear from you.
Glad to hear you have had a enjoyable summer.

It was 16 Thora Dahl living in Norway in the 1900 census, noone seems to be your Thora, so this is most likely a blind track, perhaps we have looked into this before, the only that could match is Thora Dahl in Vadsø, Finnmark county, born 1868, unmarried, manager for her mother Erikke Dahl who recieve pension from her relatives, see here

Kåre

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 26/08/2010 17:44:59
Message:

[
Hi Kåre

Thank you! No, this is not our Thora Dahl. I was more interested if somebody could search the ships logs for a Thora Dahl that might have returned temporarily to Norway in 1886?

Thank you

[/quote]

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 15/10/2010 07:31:32
Message:

Hi Friends.

I am interested in a Christine Folkedahl, born ca. 1880 in IOWA. I see her in the 1900 U.S. Census working as a servant in Winneshiek, Iowa.

Can anybody access any other census, national or Iowa to see who her parents were? I am trying to learn a little bit about her and her family.

Thank you,

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 31/12/2010 08:25:30
Message:

Kåre

Hi everybody at Norway Heritage. Happy Holidays and Happy New Year!

could you take a look at this. I see #79 in the girls section is a father named "Chiel" Pommeranz. A few year later I see his name written as "Chil" in another birth entry.

He immigrates to America in 1887 under the name of Charles Mortenson and later moves to Philadelphia where at least in one of the census I see he goes by the name of "chil" again.

What kind of name is this? Is it a nickname or is it another nationality?

Is there anything else on this record to suggest where he is from and what does he do for a living. He was a hatmaker here in America.

birth record in girls section #79

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 31/12/2010 10:32:49
Message:

Happy Holdays and Happy New Year Erik.

Never seen the name Chiel/Chil before, not sure but it may be a misspelling for pronunciation of the name Kjeld/Keld, todays Kjell, almost similar.

Chil Pomeranz born 1861 married civil (by Notary public) August 3. ? 1883.
Cant find any Marriage register, secular, for Trondheim or any Pomeranz or similare to that in the 1865 or 1875 censuses.

Pomeranz/Pommeranz sounds German or Polish to me.

The 1900 census for Oslo contains a Pomerantz family, the father born 1851 in Kolbysov, Austria, the mother and two children born in Hannover, Germany and a daughter born in Sweden so this family came to Norway via Sweden.

Kåre

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 31/12/2010 16:30:15
Message:

thank you. I have done a little looking into this and one possiblity in addition to your is that I understand now the name Chiel is a Dutch derivation for the name Mike.

In the U.S. Census this man indicates he is born in Norway. I was thinking that Chiel Pommeranz and Charles Mortensn might be two different people but both are seen using the name "Chil or Chiel" and their year of birth is the same,

Thank you. I am trying to find surviving descendants. If I learn anything more I will post it in here.

thank you

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 04/01/2011 17:57:36
Message:

Hi Kare, perhaps this might be more legible to learn more about the date of Frederikke and Chiel's wedding?

See birth record

Birth Record #59 in Girl's section

Also, what is the last middle name of this child? Anna Sofie _____?

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 04/01/2011 18:07:57
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Erik Carsten

Also, what is the last middle name of this child? Anna Sofie _____?

---

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 04/01/2011 18:20:00
Message:

Thank you Jan Peter.

Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 04/01/2011 18:30:53
Message:

Chiel Pommeranz belonged to the jewish religion and their civil marriage took place Jan 3 1883.

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 04/01/2011 18:38:18
Message:

[.......Pommeranz/Reese civil marriage record #1 1883

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 04/01/2011 18:48:41
Message:

[Eibache, can you see where Chiel was born? Also, is there any other text in the marriage record that would indicate more of his background? Occupation, religion, family?

thank you.

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 04/01/2011 19:25:52
Message:

It says he was born in Kolbuszowa, Austria. In today's Poland. He is Jewish, and was an engraver.

Jan Peter

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 04/01/2011 19:28:33
Message:

[thank you Jan Peter

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 04/01/2011 19:53:18
Message:

Erik,
probably A. Pomerantz I mentioned Dec. 31. in Oslo in 1900 was either Chiel´s brother or a close relative since both were born in Kolbysov "Østerige" Austria, borders in Europe have changed a lot since 1900, see #175017

Kåre

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 04/01/2011 20:20:29
Message:

Hi Kare, yes that would make sense. Thank you for your help. It looks like the children, however were brought up in the Lutheran faith.

Thank you.

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 04/01/2011 22:58:32
Message:

The civil marraige 1883, 1. column right page, tells that Chiel Pomeranz father was Markus Pomeranz (borgerlig stilling ikke opgived) civil staus not stated.

Kåre

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 05/01/2011 21:55:02
Message:

It is my belief that Chiel Pomeranz b. 1862 changed his name to Charles Mortenson once he immigrated to America. If they are in fact the same person, he would have immigrated in 1887, one year prior to his wife and 3 children who immigrated in 1888 and their immigration records can be found in the digitalarkivet as Pommerantsen.

U.S. Census information has used variations of spelling for Mortenson, including Mortensen, Martinson, and Martensen.....and for reasons unknown claimed that both he and his parents were born in Norway. I have found all the census records that I need but do not see his immigration record in 1887.

If they are the same persons, then we know that he was born in
Kolbuszowa, Austria and most likely that's where his parents were born as well.

I have looked but have not seen any immigration records in 1887 for Pomeranz (Pomerantz, Pommerantsen Pommeranz.....etc that would seem to work, nor Mortenson and the various spellings. He would have been immigrating to New York.

Can you see anything on your end?

As always, your help is most appreciated.
Erik.

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 05/01/2011 23:40:09
Message:

Hit a (hopefully temporary) brick wall.
I´ve searched for Pomeranz and Charles/Carl/Karl Mortenson in varoius spellings as emigrant, immigrant, passenger, genealogy, familytrees etc. without any luck.

Kåre

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 05/01/2011 23:44:29
Message:

yes, I have as well. It is telling, however, that his wife and children came over to the United States as Pommerentsen (pomeranz)......you would think he would have used that name as well...

the loss of the U.S. 1890 census continues to make things more difficult......

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 06/01/2011 00:29:22
Message:

I would think he would have emigrated as Chiel Pomeranz.

To emigrate Chiel had to apply for excemption from military if he was not already exempt, he was 25 and Norway gradually upgraded the army due to an unwanted union with Sweden (ended 1905), and get permits and govermental passport.

Kåre

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 06/01/2011 03:55:48
Message:

I have found the marriage record for the couple that is one of the main subjects of this thread, Louise and August Dahl. If you remember Louise had married and she had two boys by this marriage. In a very short time she lost both of her boys to menengits and her husband died of cancer.

She remarried and this is the record of her marriage. Her husband, August Dahl, was from Minnesota but I have learned recently that he went to Canada to raise enough money to go to Norway to see the crowning of King Haakon.

I don't know if the marriage to Louise Reese was by design or by chance, but I was wondering if you could make out August's occupation?

Also, what is the significance of the date August 1, 1906? in the column reserved for date of confirmation?

What is written to the far right column with a date of August 2, 1906?

Thank you,Marriage Record #150 (August Gerhardt Dahl and Louise Reese)

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 06/01/2011 17:14:18
Message:

Certificate from the probate register.

One of them had been married before.

Kåre

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 06/01/2011 17:27:27
Message:

Hi Kåre

Can you make out what August states is his occupation?

thank you?

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 06/01/2011 18:09:48
Message:

Erik,
August 2. is the date of the probate, 5 days before they married.

The marriage record don´t tell which of them who had been married.

Kåre

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 06/01/2011 18:31:42
Message:

[Kåre

If you look to the columns on the left you will see the numbers 1 and 2. I presume the 2 indicates second marriage, and this number is referenced for Louise. This was, in fact, her second marriage so that makes sense.

Thank you.

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 06/01/2011 18:43:59
Message:

Of course, you have a sharp eye, Louise Reese had been married before.

One day all probate register ´s will be online.

Kåre

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 06/01/2011 19:04:40
Message:

Btw; Louise was a godparent at Fredrik Pomeranz' christening. I guess you know that.

Jan Peter

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 06/01/2011 19:09:10
Message:

Forgot August´s occupation;
He lived in Shelbourn, Canada, occ.??, seems like "gaardbruger" farmer

Seems like August kept his promise and went to Canada to raise enough money to see King Håkon and queen Maud´s crowning June 22. 1906 in Nidaros Cathedral, Trondheim.

Kåre

Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 06/01/2011 19:34:23
Message:

quote:

---

Also, what is the significance of the date August 1, 1906? in the column reserved for date of confirmation?

---

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 06/01/2011 20:35:42
Message:

#93 Banns Register for August and Louise Dahl

Eibache, can you read this, as far as occupation? It still is hard to read isnt it?

Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 07/01/2011 07:42:05
Message:

It reads "Gaardbruger" = farmer.
I can see that the marriage record says the same when having this as a hint.

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 07/01/2011 15:18:37
Message:

I think it reads Jordbruger.

Jan Peter

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 07/01/2011 15:27:46
Message:

Jordbruger ?????]

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 07/01/2011 15:49:11
Message:

Marriage register; Gaardbruger
Bann register; Jordbruger

Same meaning, Farmer.

Kåre

Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 07/01/2011 16:13:55
Message:

Good, finally got the right discriptions of the occupation in both cases.

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 07/01/2011 19:59:58
Message:

I borrow some space to include photos and film from the 1906 coronation in Trondheim as August Dal raised money in Canada to watch.

Kåre

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 07/01/2011 21:23:00
Message:

Thank you for sharing! The film quality was really good, considering when it was filmed. This was quite an event! Alot of pomp and circumstance!

Reply author: royschoneman
Replied on: 18/01/2011 16:33:07
Message:

I have just joined Norway-Heritage. I am a great grandson of Anna Kristine Fredrikke (Reese) Schønemann. Her parents were Fredrik Wilhelm Reese and Anna Sopie Larson of Denmark. I am researching Anna and her siblings, many of which have been mentioned in this forum. I hope to exchange information with others working on this family.

Roy Schoneman

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 21/01/2011 01:51:44
Message:

Hi Roy, welcome to Norway-Heritgage. The researchers here are the best and have been really helpful. Most everything I have learned about my family has come from here.

let me know if you get this message. One of the other people we know researching this family, I will call her J-C :) found a death record for Frederik Wilhelm Mortensen on Ancestry.com. He died Jan. 19. 1975. He was the son of Chiel Pomerantz-Mortensen and Frederikke Reese, born in Trondhjem, Norway May 2, 1887. My research shows he did very well in the carpet industry, working for Bigelow & Hartford, one of the world's larget carpet and rug manufacturers. I am sending you a picture of the home they lived in on Warburton Avenue, in Yonkers.

Talk to you soon.

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 21/01/2011 19:49:17
Message:

Roy, am posting here for the record these "Reese" people.
Do you know them? Emigranter fra Trondheim (September 1908)

Reply author: royschoneman
Replied on: 21/01/2011 21:30:20
Message:

Erik,

I also saw that record and i can't connect them to our Reese family.

Roy

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 24/01/2011 17:15:38
Message:

Hi Roy.

JC has worked hard to find the birth record of Max Reese's youngest daughter, Dorthea Mathilde. Here it is.

Dorothea Mathilde Birth Record, # 167 (Girls Section)

The baptism was on August 30 and It shows that one of the sponsors was Fredrikke Mortensen.

Also found by JC was a record of Fredrikke "Reese" Mortensen's departure from Trondheim on September 1, 1908.
Record of Fredrikke and her son Harold's visit to Norway in 1908.
I had thought that because Fredrikke's father (Fredrik Reese) died in November of 1908 that perhaps Fredrikke had returned to Norway to visit him...on the assumption that he was sick....but it appears the baptism was the reason for Fredrikkes visit.

Reply author: royschoneman
Replied on: 24/01/2011 19:40:29
Message:

Erik,

Thank you. I am always surprised how often Norwegians went back to Norway. My grandfather was a barber and would work his passage by barbering as a crew member. His siblings and cousins constantly went back for visits. To my knowledge, none of my other ancestors from Sweden, Denmark, Germany and Ireland ever went back to Europe.

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 24/01/2011 20:11:32
Message:

Hi Roy, you are welcome. Thank JC for her digligent efforts!

I wanted to discuss with you another point that we have touched on in the past, and that is why did Fredrik and Anna Reese leave Denmark and move to Norway?

What I found interesting is that the family was living in northern Jutland in 1864 when the Second Schlewig War broke out and during the War the Prussian army occupied virtually ALL of Jutland peninsula.

Denmark had therefore lost its mainland and they risked losing their islands as well. They had no choice but to surrender and the defeat was a bitter and traumatizing event for the Danes, who lost a great many lives and alot of rich territory. Anti-German sentiment as a result was high. Could this have affected Fredrik’s (German speaking from Kiel) business and the family’s economic welfare?

Regarding our thoughts that the changing national boundaries due to the War caused the official records of the three children born in Denmark (census/ birth etc). to be at odds with each other.....as sometimes they would indicated Danish backgrounds and others German.

In fact, all of the children were born in territory that remained part of Denmark after the Treaty of Vienna was signed in 1864. At no time where they born in territory that became part of the Prussian empire.

Reply author: royschoneman
Replied on: 24/01/2011 21:40:50
Message:

Eric,

Perhaps some of the Reese contacts we make will have an idea of why they left Denmark.

Your comment about anti-German sentiments reminds me that a few years ago, I put out a request on the Norway mailing list for information about my grandfather Arthur Karl Schønemann. A woman answered me asking why I was inquiring about a German on the Norway list. I responded that he was born in Kristiana so didn't that make him Norwegian? She answered (with some heat) that she didn't care where he was born, he was a GERMAN! I got the point.

Roy

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 24/01/2011 21:44:24
Message:

Roy,
That is very telling....and perhaps why in the 1865 census...with the defeat of Denmark still very fresh in Scandanavian minds.....that they may have told the Census Taker they were all Danish (from Denmark) just out of convenience?

Just a thought. Who knows....it is all purely speculation but interesting to think about.

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 27/01/2011 00:54:11
Message:

Hi Kåre
In a Trondheim phone book I see the following words and abbreviations after some names. What do they mean?

lagerbtj.
frk.
handl.
eksp.

thank you.

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 27/01/2011 01:06:17
Message:

lagerbtj. = storesman
frk. = Miss
handl. = tradesman
eksp. = counterman

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 27/01/2011 01:22:00
Message:

Thank you Jan Peter.
How about?

frugt- & cigarforr
pakkerske.....

thank you.

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 29/01/2011 18:34:35
Message:

Hi Roy and JC!

Laurine Mathilde Reese has been found!. Here is the birth of her daughter Sigrid Fredrikke "Hagen"

Father: Albert Fredrik Hagen
Mother: Laurine Mathilde Stefanine ReeseBirth of Sigrid "Reese" Hagen.....#34 Girls Section

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 29/01/2011 18:37:21
Message:

Roy and JC....

Here is the family living in Trondheim in 1900.

I don't know what the relation of Tea (Syerske) and Kasbara (Maskerske)

1900 Norwegian National Census for 1601 Trondheim....Hagen Family

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 29/01/2011 19:17:01
Message:

Hi Erik.

Occ, Syerske - Seamstress
Occ. Maskerske - Seamstress in a clothing factory.

"Fam stilling" Family status "fl", lodger and familymember.

Kåre

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 29/01/2011 20:00:39
Message:

frugt- & cigarforr = fruit- & cigar store
pakkerske = female packer

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 29/01/2011 21:38:09
Message:

Hi Roy,

I knew that name Albert Hagen sounded familiar....

He was the "best man" for August Dahl when he married Louise Reese. He is listed in the marriage register, which was posted earlier.

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 29/01/2011 22:48:26
Message:

other baptisms of Albert and Laurine Hagen's children

1. Borghild Lovise Hagen. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=2351&idx_id=2351&uid=ny&idx_side=-143Borghild Hagen #34 Girl's Section (born Dec 10. 1903[/url

2. Anna Wilhemine Hagen http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=2351&idx_id=2351&uid=ny&idx_side=-228" target="_blank">#43 Girl's SEction, born November 25, 1905

3. Fredrik b. 2-25-2907 according to 1910 census but can't find his birth record.....

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 30/01/2011 03:16:30
Message:

Thank you Jan Peter and Kare

I think we will need some of your expertise. because I am stuck with the resources I have access to. Do you have access to additional tools to help identify what ever became of the following individuals.

I am looking for any possible living ancestors of this branch of the family. This family is living in Trondheim in 1900 and 1910 Norwegian Census information.

Albert Hagen b. October-5-1871
Laurine Mathilde Stephanine Reese b. May 30, 1873
Astrid Hagen b. June 20, 1895 (USA)
Sigrid Hagen b. October 25, 1897
Borghild Hagen b. December 10, 1903
Anna Hagen b . November 25, 1905
Fredrik Hagen b. February 25, 1907

thank you.

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 30/01/2011 16:46:43
Message:

Need time to search search for the Hagen family.

The two seamstress sisters Thea (Thea Gunhilde) and Kasbara (Kaspara Sofie) were perhaps Albert Hagen´s nieces or sisters.

Thea b. Aug. 27. 1876 and Kaspara b. April 4. 1880, both bap in Vår Frue church Trondheim,
Parents Thrond (Nicolaisen) Hagen and Ingeborg Andersdatter.

Both Trond and Albert Hagen occ. "Maler" Painter, both born in Trondheim.

Thrond and Ingeborg Hagen born in Orkdal lived in Namsos town 1900 with a daughter Nikoline Anette born in Vesterålen

Kåre

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 30/01/2011 18:59:47
Message:

Totally 566 Hagen buried in Sør-Trøndelag county, 318 in Trondheim, enter choose cemetery here

Kåre

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 31/01/2011 19:14:05
Message:

Thank you Kare. this was helpful.

Here is Laurine Mathilde Hagen death record along with some of her family. Laurine was spelled Lourine and so it did not come up in the search.....

1023077 Lourine Mathilde Hagen 1949 2104 1949 14 G 25 Lademoen Trondheim Lademoen
1023078 Magnhild Konstance Hagen 1610 1908 0207 2004 1207 2004 14 G 25 Lademoen Trondheim Lademoen
1023080 Albert Fredrik Hagen 1962 1906 1962 14 G 26 Lademoen Trondheim Lademoen
1023082 Fredrik Albert Trond Hagen 2502 1908 1976 1207 1976 14 G 26 Lademoen Trondheim Lademoen
1023381

I am thinking that Fredrik Albert Trond married Magnhild Konstance.

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 31/01/2011 19:38:09
Message:

....and Kare.....this leads to finding Fredrik's birth record. The 1910 Census incorrectly says he is born Feb. 25, 1907....his death record in the link you provided says his birth was Feb 25, 1908

Fredrik Albert Trond Hagen #70 boys section

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 31/01/2011 23:29:16
Message:

That was good news Erik.
One day all headstones will be depicted, when depends on voluteers from the local history societies.

Kåre

Reply author: garetlivermore
Replied on: 02/03/2011 02:52:34
Message:

To All:
I am a great-grandson of Chiel "Charles" Mortensen. My mother, who recently passed away, had very fond memories of her grandfather who was universally called "Pops" by everyone in the Mortensen family. I am a little overwhelmed at this moment by the volume of information contained in this thread about an aspect of my family that I did not know about until this morning. But I will comment on a couple of questions brought up here. In regards to his name, I was unaware of his birth name Pomeranz until reading about it here. The family only referred to themselves as being Mortensens. As to his given name he seemed to go back and forth between Charles and Chiel throughout his life, but later in life returned to using Chiel more often than not. In the US he seemed to have a very happy life with Frederikke, they had 10 children, 9 of whom made it to adulthood. For those who are interested, here is a photograph of Chiel and Frederikke about 1922 with their sons: http://www.flickr.com/photos/23392211@N02/4123253736/in/set-72157623790737509/" target="_blank">http://www.flickr.com/photos/23392211@N02/4123253736/in/set-72157623790737509/

I look forward to sharing more information with everyone.

Regards,

Garet Livermore
Cooperstown, NY

Reply author: royschoneman
Replied on: 02/03/2011 11:25:23
Message:

Garet,

It is a pleasure to hear from you. I am a great grandson of Anna Reese who was your great grandmother's sister. I live in Pennsylvania.

I have a great deal of information on the Reese line to share with you if you would contact me directly.

Regards,

"cousin" Roy

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 02/03/2011 16:03:41
Message:

Hi Garet. It is great to hear from you. Thank you for sharing the photo of Fredrikke and Chiel....she ressembles my great Aunt, (her sister) Louise Dahl.

What line of Chiel and Fredrikke's family do you come from?

Thank you,

Erik.

Reply author: garetlivermore
Replied on: 03/03/2011 03:47:04
Message:

Erik & Roy:

It is great to meet you and become acquainted with some of my cousins. My grandmother, Anna Isabel Mortensen Delanoy Waldron, (1884-1959) was the couple's oldest child. In addition to her there were the following children from this marriage:
- Frederick, 1887 -1975
- Arthur, 1894 - 1964
- Jeanette "Jennie" 1889 - 1958
- Gustave August, 1891 - ? (he died young, perhaps in his 40s, which would put it about 1930 or so)
- Carl, 1899 - 1993
- Marion, 1897 - 1984
- Theodore, 1902 - 1961
- Harold, 1907 -1998

The couple were married in Christiana (Oslo) and also lived in Hammerfest, where my grandmother was born and Trondheim where Harold was born. Settling in the US they lived at first in Yonkers where Chiel worked for the Waring Hat Company in NYC and then moved to Pennsylvania around 1905 to work for the Stetson Hat Company.
There are a number of questions that I have that perhaps you can help me with. One of which is the issue of the name change. I now know that he was born with the name Pomeranz, but would like to figure out when he changed the name. I also know that he was working in Hammerfest as an engraver at the time of Anna's birth (so family lore tells me). Are there any census records from that time would place him under one name or another there? Also, is it possible to obtain a birth certificate for Anna from Hammerfest that might list her parents name? How would I go about getting that information? Also, I would be interested in knowing if Chiel was able to find employment as an engraver in the northern city of Hammerfest.
There are other interesting questions about the man, but I will leave them for another time.
Thank you all for sharing your knowledge.

Garet

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 03/03/2011 06:36:43
Message:

[quote]Originally posted by Erik Carsten

[.......Pommeranz/Reese civil marriage record #1 1883



Garet. Yes we have much information to learn from each other. So as to not misrepresent myself, I am only related to you and Roy through marriage. Louise Reese, Fredrikke's sister, married into our family We had found earlier that Chiel Pommeranz and Fredrikke Reese were married in Trondheim, which is at odds with your family history.

I don't believe we have found the birth record of their 3 Norwegian born children yet?

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 03/03/2011 06:43:54
Message:

Yes, Garet. We had found the birth record of the three Norwegian born children, and they all were born in Trondheim. Below is the birth record of your Anna.. again, Trondheim.

I think it is unlikely Chiel and Fredrikke were ever in Hammerfest. Do you have information otherwise?

Birth Record #59 in Girl's section

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 03/03/2011 06:52:47
Message:

Garet. We had thought that there was another daughter born before youry grandmother, Anna Isabel Mortensen Delanoy Waldron, (1884-1959). There is a birth record for a girl named Esther....who Roy later learned married a Fred Fitch? who may have been from South AFrica?


http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=3028&idx_id=3028&uid=ny&idx_side=-147" target="_blank">Birth of Esther in Trondheim #79 (Girls Section Below)

Erik.

Reply author: garetlivermore
Replied on: 03/03/2011 12:58:54
Message:

Oops, yes there is an Esther in there, but I know nothing about her. Most of this information came from a couple of conversations that I had with my Uncle and Mother about 10 or 15 years ago when I brought my mother to Florida and I sat them down and made them tell me things. It was hard to get them to be systematic about their recollections as they kept lapsing into individual memories of their aunts and uncles and evenings at my grandmother's cabin in the country. When I looked at my scrawled notes from that day in Florida I can see at the corner of the page, "Esther?" I probably missed her when I transcribed the data on to the computer.
The Hammerfest thing is very interesting to me. My mother was always told me that her mother was born in Hammerfest. I don't think that she would knowingly make it up, but myths and legends are rampant in family history.

Garet

Garet

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 03/03/2011 19:18:26
Message:

Hi Garet. Yes I agree it is stange for such a discrepency and I am at a total loss to explain it. Perhaps there is some grain of truth BUT Hammerfest is so far north and it is clear that Anna and Chiel were married in Trondheim, and that Anna along with her older sister Esther and younger brother Fredrik were all born in Trondheim as well.

Do you or anyone in your family happen to have any photographs of Fredrikke and her family (brothers and sisters) from Norway.

Were you familiar with the names Fredrik and Anna Sofie Reese (Fredrikke's parents thus Anna's grandparents?)

I am thinking that Anna may have been named after her maternal grandmother.

Erik.

Reply author: garetlivermore
Replied on: 04/03/2011 03:05:29
Message:

Erik:
I appreciate the chance to communicate with you and others to learn more about the life of my family in Norway and Denmark. As I said, most of the information that I have on this side of the family is from oral history collected over a long period of time and therefore subject to several generations of misinterpretation. Over the years I was able to gain very little information on this side of the family from my mother or her brother. They did remember the Reese family, however they spelled it Riis which was consistent with some of the documentation that I found on them. I'm not sure where that came from since all of the source documents from Norway and Denmark spell it in its original form.
I have been communicating with Roy and he shared a photograph of Frederick and Anna from Trondheim. I know that I have some stored away and will look for them this weekend and see if I can scan them and post them for people to see.
A couple of other questions that I have. First, is there a representation of the Reese family in family tree form somewhere that I could see. I'm having a hard time keeping track of all the information that is flowing on the subject and it would help to see it visually. The second question would be if anyone knows the Reese family descendants still in Trondheim? My aunt visited them years ago (the 1970s?) and I was wondering if they were still alive.

Regards,

Garet

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 04/03/2011 04:21:35
Message:

Hi Garet,

Yes, in fact I am working on a comprehensive family tree to show how the Reese family fits into my family and it is massive. When I get it completed I will send you a copy.

Pictures would be wonderful. I am thinking there must be a family portrait of Fredrik and Anna Reese along with their children. It would be wonderful to see.

With regards to living descendents in Trondheim. There are no doubt many from Fredrikke's brother Max Reese, and her sister Laurine Mathilde.....there is another researcher who at this very moment is attempting to make contact with them.

The more people we have posting on here the information they have the more we can get a comprehensive picture of the family, and plus it is posted on here for others to enjoy when the genealogy bug bites them too!

Erik.

Reply author: chriswith
Replied on: 20/03/2011 20:19:07
Message:

To all of you looking for information about family Reese from Trondheim, Norway!

My grandmother was Dorothea Mathilde Reese, daughter of Max Ditlef Lauritz Reese. Thank you for all information on the family of Fredrik Wilhelm Reese and wife Anna Sophie Larsen.

I have resently began researching the family, and I am trying to find relatives alive today.

Dorothea had 5 children, 2 who are alive today, and was grandmother of 11 children.

Yours sincerly, Christian.

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 20/03/2011 21:27:45
Message:

Hi Christian! It is very nice to hear from you! We have been looking for descendents of Max and Karen Reese! One of the researchers here has sent me a family photo of Max Reese and his entire family and I can send it to you. I will contact you directly to get your email address.

Erik.

Reply author: royschoneman
Replied on: 20/03/2011 21:37:14
Message:

Hello, new "cousin",

Welcome to our little group of Reese researchers. I am a descendant of Anna Reese. We are all researching parts of the Reese story and exchanging information. I look forward to sharing information with you.

Regards,

Roy

Reply author: chriswith
Replied on: 20/03/2011 21:42:36
Message:

Hi, Erik!

I would really love to have that picture! Thank you!

Who is the researcher who is trying to locate the living family members to the Reese family?

Is there anybody who knows the names of the parents of Fredrik Wilhelm Reese and his wife Anna Sophie Larsen?

Christian.

Reply author: chriswith
Replied on: 20/03/2011 21:48:33
Message:

Hi, Roy!

I`m looking forward to exchanging information with you too!

I hope to find many living family members connnected in any way to the Reese family.

Christian.

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 20/03/2011 21:52:02
Message:

her initials are C.J.J.

We will send her an email to get in touch with you. The gentleman who just posted here after me is Roy and he has an abuntant amount of information on the Reese family.

Together we are putting together a comprehensive history of the family.

My interest is trying to find a family photo of Fredrik and Anna Reese, and also wedding picture of Lovise Reese and August Dahl. They were married in Trondheim in 1906.

Old photos of Lovise might include her first husband and two boys who died at a young age. Her first husband died of cancer. To date I have seen no photos of these people.

Thank you.

Reply author: Claire Johnson
Replied on: 21/03/2011 01:53:48
Message:

Hi all!

I am finally joining the conversation! Previously my research has been posted by others who have kindly referred to me as CJ. My entry into the Reese research was a result of my search to learn more about my relative, Karen Lovisa Knutsen, who married Max Reese. Their oldest son, Karl, lived for some time with my grandparents in North Dakota. It is so nice that we have established contact with Christian!

Claire

Reply author: Henne
Replied on: 13/02/2012 00:37:31
Message:

Hello to all. I see it has been almost a year since the last post here. I hope someone sees my message. I just joined today.

I have no idea how this forum works, but I am a decendant from Frederik Vilhelm Reese and Anna Sophie Larsen's daughter Dorothea Vilhelmine Mathilde Reese. I found this forum through Google, as I was trying to find out if an ancestor named Katrine was one of their children.

From what I have read in this topic/thread, that is not the case, but I am very interested in finding out just exactly who their children were. So far, I only knew of the two oldest, born in Denmark. And from this forum I found out about Lovise Marie. But I noticed the death record said 5-7 children.

Frederik Vilhelm worked as a dairy (google translate seems wrong) tenant - in danish: Mejeriforpagter.

In some of the previous pages I read that someone believed that the Reese's had been known as Riis. That is not the case. Riis Højgård is the farm/place where Dorothea Vilhelmine Mathilde and her husband Peter Jens Møller Sørensen, lived from 1897.

I hope that someone sees the above, and can direct me towards information on Frederik Vilhelm and Anne's other children.

Reply author: royschoneman
Replied on: 13/02/2012 09:11:15
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Henne

Hello to all. I see it has been almost a year since the last post here. I hope someone sees my message. I just joined today.

I have no idea how this forum works, but I am a decendant from Frederik Vilhelm Reese and Anna Sophie Larsen's daughter Dorothea Vilhelmine Mathilde Reese. I found this forum through Google, as I was trying to find out if an ancestor named Katrine was one of their children.

From what I have read in this topic/thread, that is not the case, but I am very interested in finding out just exactly who their children were. So far, I only knew of the two oldest, born in Denmark. And from this forum I found out about Lovise Marie. But I noticed the death record said 5-7 children.

Frederik Vilhelm worked as a dairy (google translate seems wrong) tenant - in danish: Mejeriforpagter.

In some of the previous pages I read that someone believed that the Reese's had been known as Riis. That is not the case. Riis Højgård is the farm/place where Dorothea Vilhelmine Mathilde and her husband Peter Jens Møller Sørensen, lived from 1897.

I hope that someone sees the above, and can direct me towards information on Frederik Vilhelm and Anne's other children.

---

Reply author: royschoneman
Replied on: 13/02/2012 09:22:42
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Henne

Hello to all. I see it has been almost a year since the last post here. I hope someone sees my message. I just joined today.

I have no idea how this forum works, but I am a decendant from Frederik Vilhelm Reese and Anna Sophie Larsen's daughter Dorothea Vilhelmine Mathilde Reese. I found this forum through Google, as I was trying to find out if an ancestor named Katrine was one of their children.

From what I have read in this topic/thread, that is not the case, but I am very interested in finding out just exactly who their children were. So far, I only knew of the two oldest, born in Denmark. And from this forum I found out about Lovise Marie. But I noticed the death record said 5-7 children.

Frederik Vilhelm worked as a dairy (google translate seems wrong) tenant - in danish: Mejeriforpagter.

In some of the previous pages I read that someone believed that the Reese's had been known as Riis. That is not the case. Riis Højgård is the farm/place where Dorothea Vilhelmine Mathilde and her husband Peter Jens Møller Sørensen, lived from 1897.

I hope that someone sees the above, and can direct me towards information on Frederik Vilhelm and Anne's other children.

---

Reply author: Henne
Replied on: 13/02/2012 17:44:28
Message:

Hi Roy,

I am very happy to find that this is an active place.
As I said, my ancestor is Dorothea Vilhelmine Mathilde Sophie Reese.

As far as I have found, she is the second oldest child of Frederik Vilhelm Reese and Anne Sophie Larsen.

Dorothea was born in Denmark on the 30th August 1860. I have her birth and christening record from the churchbook of Rønbjerg Sogn (Parish), Ringkøbing, Denmark. I also have the entry in a churchbook for her death. In both records her parents are listed as Reese.

At first, I only had her parents initials, but in an old cigarbox that used to belong to my grandmother, I found a photo of a headstone. On this headstone is written
"Her hviler vores Foreldre Anne Sofie og Fredrik Reese Dypt savnet av os eders børn i Norge og Amerika
Translated: Here lies our Parents Anne Sofie and Fredrik Reese Deeply missed by us your children in Norway and America"

And so I was able to find the record of the birth of their oldest daugther (Ane) and their marriage.
I have a census record from 1860 from Rønbjerg Sogn, Ginding Herred, Ringkøbing Amt (which sadly was done before Dorotheas birth so it only lists them and Ane) and they are listed as witnesses/faddere to Dorothea Vilhelmine Mathilde Sophie Reese's second oldest child.

I also have their name in a "booklet" which is the results of someone researching her husbands family, and here Frederik Vilhelm and Anne Sofie are mentioned very briefly.

I will send you my email address as a reply to the email you send me - I am writing the above in this forum in case any others are also thinking that "my" Dorothea is their granddaugther.

My connection to Frederik Vilhelm and Anne Sophie is that they are my great great great grandparents.

Dorothea Vilhelmine Mathilde Sophie married Peter Jens Møller Sørensen. Among their children was my great-grandfather Karl Vilhelm Møller Sørensen. His daugther, Doris Sofie Møller Sørensen was my grandmother (on my fathers side).

I am registered on ancestry.com and will gladly share my gedcom files with any relatives.

Reply author: Henne
Replied on: 13/02/2012 18:04:00
Message:

I read in one of these pages, that Frederik Vilhelm Reese was born in Kiel. And that he was noted as a german (in norwegian records). Well, Kiel was (as far as I have remembered from history lessons) danish at the time of his birth.
In 1864 Denmark lost a substantial part of the mainland, the area known as Sleswig-Holstein, and so, in modern day records, someone would probably mistake Kiel for being german. But I think it is most correct to go by birthyear as well. I would believe that any danish person after 1864 would have recognised Frederik as danish. However, I have a census record in which it looks like he has stated the island Bornholm as being his birthplace. I have not found his birth record and is eager to get proof of his birthplace (and parents).

If he wrongfully and deliberately stated Bornholm as birthplace, and if he did speak danish with an accent, I would imagine he chose Bornholm as people there do have a very different accent/dialect.

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 13/02/2012 18:47:24
Message:

Hi.
The Duchy (ruled by a duke) Schleswig Holstein was in a personal union with Denmark (same king) until the 2. Schleswig War in 1864.

Kåre

Reply author: royschoneman
Replied on: 16/02/2012 12:00:40
Message:

Hello everybody researching the Reese family.

Just to confirm on this forum, I am now confident that Henne is "one of us". What had confused some of us is that her ancestor Dorothea (Doris), age 4, stayed behind in Denmmark when her parents Frederik and Anna Sophie Reese and the rest of their children went to Norway about 1864. A mystery to be solved -- but as all you experiennced researchers know, there are ALWAYS mysteries.

Roy

Reply author: anneguro
Replied on: 03/06/2012 13:50:25
Message:

Hello!
I'm also new here and I would like to get information about Fredrik Vilhelm og Anna Sophie Reeses parents. They are not my relatives but my husbands. Anna Fredrikke Laurine Reese is his great grandmother and Max and Karen Reese his great great grandparents. I'm also interested in Karen Lovises parents. Can you please help me?

Reply author: Claire Johnson
Replied on: 03/06/2012 15:01:33
Message:

Hi Anne!
I just saw your post and will be able to help you. Karen Lovise Knudsen Reese's father and my grandmother were brother and sister. It will be nice to exchange information with you. I am away from home today and tomorrow, but will send soon.
Best regards,
Claire

Reply author: Henne
Replied on: 03/06/2012 15:39:08
Message:

Hi Anne and everyone else,

I am not sure if Claire intends to send documentation for Anne Sofie Larsen's parents?

If not, let me know and I will do that.

Kind of strange coincidence, but I have a day off tomorrow and if the weather permits, I will go to Lundforlund, where Anne Sofie Larsens parents lived.

My aim is simply to take some photos. It is a very small place and I suspect to find some where old houses and buildings that will depict what the village looked like back then, And I also expect to find a lot of modern day suburbian homes :)

If I go, I will share the photos and whatever else I find.

Wish you all a very nice Sunday.

Reply author: royschoneman
Replied on: 03/06/2012 15:39:21
Message:

Hello Anne,

I am happy to find a new cousin! Anna Fredrike Laurine Reese would have been my first cousin, (twice removed). We have many Reese descendants on this forum and I look forward to sharing information with you.

Regards,

Roy Schoneman
2nd great grandson of Fredrik Wilhelm Reese and Anna Sofie (Larson) Reese.

Reply author: Henne
Replied on: 04/06/2012 08:28:49
Message:

Hi all,

Unfortunately I won't be going to Lundforlund and Fuglebjerg today as planned.

I will do it some other time, when the weather is better.

Best regards

Henne

Reply author: amsk
Replied on: 04/04/2013 21:13:25
Message:

Hello
I am new at these pages, but it seems that we all are connected to Frederik Wilhelm Reese (or Friedrich as he was baptized).
I am a descendant of Friedrich Wilhelm Reese, who was my great great-grandfather. His next oldest child was Dorthea Vilhelmine Mathilde Sophie Reese born in Denmark.
The last two year I have made genealogy of all of my grandparents, including my grandfather Søren Moller Sørensen, who is the oldeste son of Dorthea Vilhelmine Mathilde Sophie Reese (my great-grandmother).
Dorthea was born in Norkjaer by Rønbjerg in Denmark on 30 August 1860, as the second daughter of Friedrich William Reese and Ane Sophie Larsen.
The children of Friedrich William Reese and Ane Sophie Larsen was:
1) Anna Christine Frederikke Reese, born 1859 in Denmark (Fuglbjerg)
2) Dorthea Wilhelmine Mathilde Sophie Reese, born 1860 in Denmark (Rønbjerg)
3) Frederikke Loteia Reese, born 1862 in Denmark (Ejdrup)
4) Marx Ditlef Laurits Reese, born 1864 in Denmark (Edelslund)
5) Carl Frederick William Reese, born 1866 in Norway - dead 30.12.1868 in Norway
6) Johan Heinrich Frederick Reese, born 1868 in Norway
7) Louise Marie Karoline Reese, born 1870 ii Norway
8) Laurina Mathilde Reese, born 1873 in Norway

I have some information about why Friedrich Wilhlem Reese and Ane Sophie Larsen left Denmark without their daughter (from the family history) and I have found out where Friedrich Wilhelm Reese comes from in Germany (the previous Denmark) and some of his siblings.
I can see that it is a year ago that there was last written anything on these pages so maybe it is not active anymore.

Best regards
Anne Marie

2nd great granddaughter of Fredrik Wilhelm Reese and Anna Sofie Larsen

Reply author: Henne
Replied on: 04/04/2013 22:15:59
Message:

Hi Anne Marie,

I am one of Karl Vilhelm Møller Sørensens great grandchildren (brother of Søren Møller Sørensen).

I don't think this forum is closed, but we communicate via email instead of here.

It is a puzzle where Dorothea was for 20 years of her life up to her marriage with Peter Jens Møller Sørensen and why she was left behind. So please do share :)

You and I should talk more preferably we could exchange stories in danish via email. Feel free to write to me at
henriette_dreier@hotmail.com

I am sure the rest of "team Reese" will be happy to have you take part in the emails with the "non-Danes".

I have done a lot of investigation in regards to Søren and Karls sister Sophie (nee Frederikke) who emigrated to United States, and I also have some info on the other sister: Magda (nee Karoline). I don't know why they decided to use their middlenames instead of their firstnames, but they obviously did.

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 04/04/2013 23:46:34
Message:

This topic is not closed
But it´s ca 2 years since the owner fom USA has posted here.

Kåre

Reply author: royschoneman
Replied on: 05/04/2013 00:26:33
Message:

Anne Marie,

I am happy to have a new person join us. I am an American descendant - a great grandson of Anna Kristine Fredrikke Reese. All of us in this forum have shared a lot of information. I look forward to sharing information with you.

If you wish, you can contact me directly at rwboylan@aol.com and I can send you all of the information I have.

Best regards,

Roy

Reply author: amsk
Replied on: 06/04/2013 14:41:15
Message:

Thank you all for your quick feedback
I have found out that Dorthea Reese grew up at a sister to Frederik Wilhelm Reese (Anna Cathrina Dorothea Reese). They had an Inn in Hørning (Aarhus region), where I have found her at census in 1870. I have not been able to find her confirmation or where she stays in the census 1880. Dorthea got a very hard upbringing without her parents and siblings. Yet Frederick and Sophie Reese are godfather/godmother in Denmark to one of Dortheas children, daughter Frederikke Sophie Katrine Sorensen, who was born in 1889.
I would like to share more information with you, but it takes a while to put it into English. I will contact you by email.
Anne Marie

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 28/01/2016 00:14:59
Message:

Hello all. I am getting back into the research mode of this family and I find the digitalarkivet more difficult to use...i think once we learn to do something one way it is hard to change. At any rate...can anybody find these family units in Norway:

Nils Nelson Folkedahl b. 1934
his wife Synnev
their daughter Brita b. 10-5-1859

Nils Nelson Folkedahl b. 1934
his wife Ingeborg Fredriksdatter
their son Nels Folkedahl born 1866

I was wondering if the Nels Folkendahl is the same in each case?
thank you.

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 28/01/2016 00:24:26
Message:

Erik you'll have to clarify where the right info is: 1934 or the two other birth years...

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 28/01/2016 01:06:08
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jkmarler

Erik you'll have to clarify where the right info is: 1934 or the two other birth years...

---

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 28/01/2016 01:22:11
Message:

Or this one?
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XJDY-6SQ

The elder was born in 1834:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M9L1-TMS

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 28/01/2016 01:31:03
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jkmarler

Or this one?
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XJDY-6SQ

---

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 28/01/2016 01:57:40
Message:

Here's a transcription of Nils Nilsen the son's confirmation

Nils Nilsen Folkedal

Birth Record
Birth Date Jul 24, 66
Birth Place Big Canoe.
Confirmation Date Nov 5, 1882
Confirmation Location
Winneshiek, Iowa
Record TypeBirth Record
Record Source
Minutes, Ministerial, Constitutions, Letter of Call, Baptismal Records, Articles of Incorporation, Letter of Call, History.
Church Lutheran
Church Location Winneshiek County, IA
Event Type confirmation
Family Information
Nils Nilsen Folked
Father
Ingeborg Fredriksd
Mother

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 28/01/2016 02:17:18
Message:

ok...thank you for this but is this the same Nils Nelsen Folkedahl as the the on that married a Synneva Folkedahl and had a daughter by the name of Bertha born March 24, 1834 in Norway?

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 28/01/2016 02:17:51
Message:

There is a marriage record for Nils Nilsen and Ingeborg Fredriksdatter at Big Canoe. Nils is aged 32 and is a widower and Ingeborg is a not previously married woman aged 27 and both are listed as new comers to Big Canoe. Marriage 18 16 Nov 1865

Reply author: JaneC
Replied on: 28/01/2016 02:21:49
Message:

Departing Bergen in May 1865
Niels Nielsen Folkedahl and Ingeborg Fredriksdatter Folkedahl
with daughters Ingeborg and Anne
Residence Hardanger
See 207, 208, 209, 210
http://www.norwayheritage.com/p_list.asp?jo=1323&ps=20019

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 28/01/2016 02:22:18
Message:

I had not seen this before!

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 28/01/2016 02:26:11
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by JaneC

Departing Bergen in 1865
Nils and Ingeborg
with daughters Ingeborg and Anne
Residence Hardanger
See 207, 208, 209, 210
http://www.norwayheritage.com/p_list.asp?jo=1323&ps=20019

---

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 28/01/2016 02:42:53
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jkmarler

There is a marriage record for Nils Nilsen and Ingeborg Fredriksdatter at Big Canoe. Nils is aged 32 and is a widower and Ingeborg is a not previously married woman aged 27 and both are listed as new comers to Big Canoe. Marriage 18 16 Nov 1865

---

Reply author: JaneC
Replied on: 28/01/2016 03:11:42
Message:

Interesting. What is your source, Erik, where did you see that? Which Ingeborg?

Here is Brita born 05 October 1859 to Niels Nielsen and Synneva Fredriksdatter, Folkedal
from Ulvik/Granvin churchbook:
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20070523630329.jpg

Ulvik/Granvin is in the Hardanger area.

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 28/01/2016 03:13:12
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by JaneC

Interesting. What is your source, where did you see that? Which Ingeborg?

Here is Brita born in 1859 to Niels Nielsen and Synneva Fredriksdatter, Folkedal
from Ulvik/Granvin churchbook:
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20070523630329.jpg

---

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 28/01/2016 03:15:16
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by JaneC

Interesting. What is your source, where did you see that? Which Ingeborg?

Here is Brita born in 1859 to Niels Nielsen and Synneva Fredriksdatter, Folkedal
from Ulvik/Granvin churchbook:
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20070523630329.jpg

---

Reply author: JaneC
Replied on: 28/01/2016 03:19:46
Message:

Thanks Erik. Your source is the church book at Big Canoe, archived at ELCA as found on Ancestry.com website. Let me know if I got that wrong. Since I can't access the link, should I guess it is Ingeborg Fredriksdatter Folkedahl who dies, not the child Ingeborg Nielsdatter Folkedahl?

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 28/01/2016 03:24:28
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by JaneC

Interesting. What is your source, Erik, where did you see that? Which Ingeborg?

Here is Brita born 05 October 1859 to Niels Nielsen and Synneva Fredriksdatter, Folkedal
from Ulvik/Granvin churchbook:
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20070523630329.jpg

Ulvik/Granvin is in the Hardanger area.

---

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 28/01/2016 03:29:26
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by JaneC

Thanks Erik. Your source is the church book at Big Canoe, archived at ELCA as found on Ancestry.com website. Let me know if I got that wrong. Since I can't access the link, should I guess it is Ingeborg Fredriksdatter Folkedahl who dies, not the child Ingeborg Nielsdatter Folkedahl?

---

Reply author: JaneC
Replied on: 28/01/2016 03:30:12
Message:

Here is Anne born May 1862 in Ulvik/Granvin, Hordaland fylke (which is in the geographic region of Hardanger)
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20070523630335.jpg

Her parents are Niels Nielsen Folkedal and Synneva Fredriksdatter.

Emerging hypothesis is that Synneva dies, Ingeborg gets pregnant, Niels and Ingeborg emigrate and get married. Needs checking out.


Here is an explanation of what is meant by "Hardanger" region. It is not a fylke. It is in Hordaland fylke. A number of parishes, villages lie within the Hardanger region in Hordaland fylke - including Ulvik and Granvin.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardanger

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 28/01/2016 03:34:44
Message:

Here is the marriage of Nils Nilsen Folkedal and Synneva Fredriksdatter #14:
Kildeinformasjon: Hordaland fylke, Ulvik, Ministerialbok nr. A 13 (1853-1863), Ekteviede 1859, side 166.
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=8315&idx_id=8315&uid=ny&idx_side=-149

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 28/01/2016 03:43:40
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jkmarler

Here is the marriage of Nils Nilsen Folkedal and Synneva Fredriksdatter #14:
Kildeinformasjon: Hordaland fylke, Ulvik, Ministerialbok nr. A 13 (1853-1863), Ekteviede 1859, side 166.
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=8315&idx_id=8315&uid=ny&idx_side=-149

---

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 28/01/2016 03:47:32
Message:

You might not find them if you've only looked for Folkedal...

Here is Synneve Fredriksdatter's baptism:
Kildeinformasjon: Hordaland fylke, Ulvik, Ministerialbok nr. A 12 (1839-1853), Fødte og døpte 1839, side 6.
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=8314&idx_id=8314&uid=ny&idx_side=-10

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 28/01/2016 03:49:35
Message:

and here is Synevva Fredriksdatter death record:

http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?show=94&uid=30832&urnread_imagesize=gigant&hode=nei&ls=1&lc=x%259CK%25B42%25B2%25AA.%25B62%25B4R%25CAT%25B2.%25B62%25B5R24475%2500%25B1%2581b%25C5J%25D6%2599V%2596%2526%25D6%25B5%2500%25C8q%2509%25EE

#12, January 19, 1863.

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 28/01/2016 03:56:13
Message:

here they are in 1880 under the name of 'Nelson'. the Anna would correspond to the Ann in the immigration records, birth around 1863...so it would appear these are the same people.

http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=1880usfedcen&indiv=try&h=23965855

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 28/01/2016 04:00:50
Message:

it would appear then these people are in fact the same....here they are in 1880 census under the name of 'Nelson"....see Anna would correspond to 'Anne" in the immigrations records you referenced, as year of birth would be 1863....and her older sister Ingeborg, born around 1858....I wonder what became of her? Do you see a death record for her prior to 1880? or perhaps she has married by then and can be found under a different family name.
http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=1880usfedcen&indiv=try&h=23965855

Reply author: JaneC
Replied on: 28/01/2016 04:03:04
Message:

This one is for the shoebox - might be parents of Niels Nielsen Folkedal, given that his first born daughter and son are Brita and Niels
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/ft/bosted_land/bf01038234005129

A naming pattern we seem to see is for a Norwegian immigrant to use patronymic name in early US records and switch to farm name in later records.

Brita born 1859 corresponds to "Ingeborg" age 7 traveling in 1865 with Niels, Ingeborg, and little Anne. Possibly a careless mistake makes Brita into "Ingeborg" (mistaken repeat of the woman's name). Brita might then be Bertha in the 1880 you posted.

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 28/01/2016 04:08:55
Message:

Jane, I am going off line for a couple of hours but I want you to know that the children in the immigration records are NOT part of the 'Nelson" family of 1880. To make matter more complicated there are Bjorgo people involved and I have confirmed that the Anna age 2 is the daughter of Knut and Bryteva Bjorgo. Anne was born 3-31-1862 also in Hordaland...other children by this marriage were Haldor, 12-28-1860 and Rannveig, 8-5-1866.

Reply author: JaneC
Replied on: 28/01/2016 04:10:47
Message:

Nothing is confirmed without sources!!!!! There is no such confirmation in this thread. The 1880 census is not confirmed here as being any body - it is a good candidate to be the Niels Nielsen Folkedahl family. The Big Canoe Church is the family's church in the USA, and the records for it are,available through Ancestry.com. More of the story can be pulled from there, by anyone who has access (many of us do not).

The 1900 census for Nels Folkedahl (posted by Jackie) has him born March 1834, which corresponds to the gravestone for Niels Nielsen Folkedahl (photo posted on Iowa Genweb website). The 1900 census has Niels married to "Britava," which could easily be the wife Bertha in the 1880 - and it could be the same person you mention as "Bryteva Bjorgo."
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M9L1-TMS


Obviously the candidate 1880 census has a Ronnaug or Ronveig or similar who is likely not a birth child of the Niels we've been looking at. And Niels must be found to remarry after Ingeborg death, to a Bertha (or Norwegian equivalent). The blended family may be a blend with the family you propose (the mother's name is right) but that needs to be demonstrated.

There is no such thing as you or I confirming a genealogy fact - not unless we were there and took notes. Appropriate evidence alone can tell the tale.

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 28/01/2016 04:32:29
Message:

Here is the Fredr* on Ronnestrand farm in 1865:
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/ft/person/pf01038234004940

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 28/01/2016 05:14:45
Message:

Erik's post this page"........and her older sister Ingeborg, born around 1858....I wonder what became of her? Do you see a death record for her prior to 1880? or perhaps she has married by then and can be found under a different family name."


Here is a record concerning the child of a woman whose maiden name is Ingeborg Folkendal. Perhaps she is Nils' missing daughter.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XVCR-8Q6

There is an Ingeborg Johannesdatter Folkedal born in 1858 who was confirmed in Big Canoe in 1873. Her parents are identified as Johannes Arentson and Margrete Folkedal.

Reply author: JaneC
Replied on: 28/01/2016 05:29:27
Message:

I think Erik is talking about Knut Haldorsen Bjørge from Voss - not sure

Reply author: JaneC
Replied on: 28/01/2016 05:43:11
Message:

Yes, here is Knud Haldorsen Bjørgo departing Voss, Hordaland, in April 1871 (with wife Barbraa Simonsdatter) long after Niels Nielsen Folkendahl set sail - and Knut has his own children in tow. Good heavens, I should hope so. The children Haldor (b 28 Dec 1860), Anne (b 31 Mar 1862), and Rannveig (b 05 Aug 1866) have the exact birth dates that Erik stated. A fourth child, Lars, is listed with birth date 02 June 1870 (see Lars memorial below).
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20070104620499.jpg

If Knut married Brytteva (Larsdatter?), it must have been before or after this current wife.

So much for confirmation of the story that Niels was accompanied by Knut's daughter Anne, rather than his own daughter Anne, noted as age 2 in the 1865 emigration.

Lars Bjorgo memorial on Find a Grave at Big Canoe cemetery in Winneshiek county, Iowa,
says he was born 02 June 1870
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=96463745

Knut Haldorsson Bjorgo died 1875 according to Find a Grave and is buried at Big Canoe.

1865 census in Voss, Hordaland for Knut Haldorsen and wife Barbraa Simonsdatter and children:
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/ft/person/pf01038235010328

This family researcher says that after Nils Nilsen Folkedahl's wife Synneva died, Nils married Synneva's sister Ingeborg. More research needed to know whether they really are sisters.
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wgnorway/par-e-f.htm


Gravestone in Big Canoe Cemetery in Winneshiek county, Iowa, is shared by Nils and Brytteva:

Brytteva Folkedahl
http://iowagravestones.org/gs_view.php?id=444871

Nils N Folkedahl
http://iowagravestones.org/gs_view.php?id=444869

Click on "post it note" to see a message from a descendant. He writes that Brytteva was born 11 Nov 1839 in Voss, parents Lars Larsen Bjørgo and Inger Sjursdatter.

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 28/01/2016 15:36:11
Message:

There is a death for Ingeborg Fredriksdatter in Big Canoe registers
pg 152 #1 wife Ingeborg Fredriksdatter aged 26, died 22 Nov 1857 buried 3 May 1858 and the #2 is a child Anne Nielsdatter aged 5 1/2 died 5 Dec1857 also buried 3 May 1858

Here is Ingeborg Fredriksdatter's confirmation #21 father is Fredrik Erikson:
Kildeinformasjon: Hordaland fylke, Ulvik, Ministerialbok nr. A 13 (1853-1863), Konfirmerte 1859, side 113.
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=8315&idx_id=8315&uid=ny&idx_side=-114

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 28/01/2016 15:51:23
Message:

Jackie...nicely done. this is coming together nicely.

Reply author: JaneC
Replied on: 28/01/2016 16:09:27
Message:

Jackie cites a death of an Ingeborg Fredriksdatter recorded in the Big Canoe church book, page 152.
The death is #1 on the page.
This Ingeborg Fredriksdatter was age 26.
The year is 1857.


Erik, you cited a death of an Ingeborg (Fredriksdatter?).
The death was #1 on the -?- page in the Big Canoe register.
That Ingeborg was age 26.
The year was 1867.


This begs the question - are there two women who died?

Or are you both referring to the same record, and the year "1867" is a typo?

If there is only one death that you both mention and the year 1857 applies, this cannot be the Ingeborg Fredriksdatter Folkedahl who emigrated in 1865.

.

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 28/01/2016 17:12:50
Message:

Hello Jane. Here is a link to the Big Canoe Lutheran Church Register.
http://interactive.ancestry.com/60722/41742_315150-00221/3360510?backurl=http://person.ancestry.com/tree/83527456/person/42558326900/facts/citation/283705732989/edit/record
the year is 1867,

Reply author: JaneC
Replied on: 28/01/2016 18:23:16
Message:

Thanks Erik.

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 28/01/2016 18:34:05
Message:

have we found the birth records for "ingeborg" age 7 immigrating to the u.s. in 1865?

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 28/01/2016 19:19:24
Message:

She is probably called Ingeborg on the passenger list already linked to, but Brita Nilsdatter has a findagrave memorial:
http://findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=folkedahl&GSbyrel=all&GSdyrel=all&GSob=n&GRid=21265728&df=all&

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 28/01/2016 19:28:43
Message:

yes, I was wondering about that possibility....that Brita and Ingeborg were actuallly the same person...but i'm not sure about that.

Reply author: JaneC
Replied on: 28/01/2016 19:31:45
Message:

Just now I double-checked all birth-baptism records in Ulrik/Granvin church book 1855-1865. There is no Ingeborg born to Nils and Synneva. The daughter Brita born to them would be about age 7 in 1865, and she is highly likely the second daughter emigrating with the family. As was mentioned by Jackie and as I proposed earlier, "Ingeborg" is likely a mistake.

One appealing feature of the candidate 1880 census ("Nelson" family) is that daughter Anna has an older sister Bertha who mirrors Brita in age.

Reply author: JaneC
Replied on: 28/01/2016 19:43:54
Message:

You might try checking Big Canoe confirmation records to show that Brita is in Iowa, adding to the FAG memorial Jackie posted.

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 28/01/2016 19:51:01
Message:

An obituary was published on Brita Folkedahl on 8 March 1938 in the Dubuque Telegraph Herald pg 5, col2.

It says she died Saturday in Decorah Hospital and that she came to US from Hardanger, Norway where she was born on Oct 5, 1859 with her parents when she was small. She was survived by 3 sisters: Inga of Freeport; Mrs. J.A. Dahl and Mrs. J.E. Strinmoen who lived at Banks, N.D. and brother Lars Bjorgo. She was predeceased by her parents M/ M Nels Folkedahl, brothers Nils and Andrew, sister Sophia and one step-sister Tina Bjorgo.

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 28/01/2016 19:56:14
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jkmarler

An obituary was published on Brita Folkedahl on 8 March 1938 in the Dubuque Telegraph Herald pg 5, col2.

It says she died Saturday in Decorah Hospital and that she came to US from Hardanger, Norway where she was born on Oct 5, 1859 with her parents when she was small. She was survived by 3 sisters: Inga of Freeport; Mrs. J.A. Dahl and Mrs. J.E. Strinmoen who lived at Banks, N.D. and brother Lars Bjorgo. She was predeceased by her parents M/ M Nels Folkedahl, brothers Nils and Andrew, sister Sophia and one step-sister Tina Bjorgo.

---

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 28/01/2016 20:27:24
Message:

this shows better the marriage of Nels Folkedahl to Synneva Fredriksdatter on October 17, 1959.
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=11750&uid=ny&idx_side=-71

source: Parish Register COPY; Ulvik/Granvin1855-1868 page 48 of marriage records for 1859.

does this make any mention that the two already have a child? as our research shows they had a daughter, Brita, born October 5, 1859

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 28/01/2016 22:16:52
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Erik Carsten

this shows better the marriage of Nels Folkedahl to Synneva Fredriksdatter on October 17, 1959.
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=11750&uid=ny&idx_side=-71

source: Parish Register COPY; Ulvik/Granvin1855-1868 page 48 of marriage records for 1859.

does this make any mention that the two already have a child? as our research shows they had a daughter, Brita, born October 5, 1859

---

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 28/01/2016 23:23:51
Message:

ok..thank you for that Jackie. I am going to take everything that you and Jane have put together and think about this....I think everybody is accounted for...but this family grouping was a challenge as it involved many different spouses...it was what I would call a super Brady Bunch.

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 28/01/2016 23:41:10
Message:

Hello Erik.
Have you seen this posting

Kåre

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 28/01/2016 23:44:48
Message:

Kare..hello! no I cannot access the link? what is it?

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 28/01/2016 23:45:45
Message:

Now it works.

Kåre

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 28/01/2016 23:49:25
Message:

Hi Kare...I can still not access the link.....

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 28/01/2016 23:58:59
Message:

Strange, the link should be ok.

It is a photo from Eide where Synnevas father Fredrik Eriksen Eide is mentioned. He drowned in the fjord while attempting to move a house across the Fjord. Two of his daughters was married to Nils Nilsen Folkedal, the first wife died in fever.

Kåre

Reply author: JaneC
Replied on: 29/01/2016 12:02:33
Message:

Nice find Kåre.


Death of Barbraa Simonsdatter Bjørgo
April 1868, Voss churchbook
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20070104620360.jpg

.

Marriage, top of the left hand page,
Evanger church book
Knud Haldorsen Bjørgo married
Brytteva Larsdatter (her father is called Lars Larsen Bjørgo)
22 June 1869
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20061221630238.jpg

.

Birth of Lars to Knut Haldorsen Bjørgo and Brytteva Larsdatter
02 June 1870
Evanger church book
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20061221630135.jpg

.

The child Lars who emigrated with Knut Haldorsen Bjørgo
was born 02 June 1870
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20070104620499.jpg

.
Thus it must be another mistake in the church book, in the migration list. It is not Barbraa emigrating with Knut - it is Brytteva. Maybe Knut reported he and his wife were leaving (without naming her)? Who knows how errors get made...but we know they do happen.

.
Find a Grave memorial lists Knut having died 1875. Based on the rumor referenced earlier, Brytteva would have married Niels Nielsen Folkedahl after that. If the candidate 1880 census is correct, they married in time to become parents to the youngest in the household. I did not find the marriage at Iowa Genweb, but presumably it would be in the Big Canoe church book.


Find a Grave shows Sophia as a child of Niels. She is age 3 in the 1880 census for the Nelson family (which by now is certainly the Folkedahls), so that seems right.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=21265729

Reply author: JaneC
Replied on: 29/01/2016 23:35:13
Message:

Just checked the Big Canoe church records via Ancestry.com. The book is thick with references to Niels Nielsen Folkedahl and Brytteva Larsdatter, having babies, etc. Although no one had any doubt here they had married, no evidence of that had been proposed. So there you go - see the Big Canoe church register for plenty. This brings closure (to my mind anyway) to the thread.

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 30/01/2016 00:36:06
Message:

Hi Jane, yes I agree...I think we have a pretty comprehensive picture now of this family and it is complicated...thank you so much for your help! I hope you have a relaxing weekend..my best to you.

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 05/02/2017 19:32:26
Message:

Dear All. I am still trying to find death records of 3 people in Trondheim. I am slowly going through the digitalarkivet church records, first for Domkirken in Trondheim. Can someone have a look at
#121 for 1847 and tell me if this might the death record for Sirianna Margrethe who was born March 25, 1847 to Anders Rambraut and Siri Sivertsdater Bordahl.
https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/2445/15573/97

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 05/02/2017 19:57:46
Message:

For the record: I believe this records the death of Johan Hakon Rambrout, who was born 4-30-1855 in Tronheim to Anders Torbersen Rambraut and Siri Sivertsdatter Bordahl....

Do you read the same?

#127 (1857) Trondheim Domkirken

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/2334/14754/87

Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 08/02/2017 08:32:56
Message:

Sirianna Margrethe Rambraut died July 20 and was 4 month old.

Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 08/02/2017 08:39:49
Message:

Johan Hakon Rambraut died Aug 21 1857 and was 2 years and 4 months old.

Reply author: Erik Carsten
Replied on: 08/02/2017 15:25:05
Message:

thank you so much Einar for the confirmation.

Norway Heritage Community : http://www.norwayheritage.com/snitz/