Inman Line Ships

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Topic URL: http://www.norwayheritage.com/snitz/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5978
Printed on: 08/06/2026

Topic:

Topic author: cmtodd
Subject: Inman Line Ships
Posted on: 27/01/2014 22:57:16
Message:

I am trying to identify a ship that sailed from England to North America in 1880. The Torkildson family I am investigating was to travel on the Inman line, sailing from Trondheim on the “Dampskib Tasso” on 14 Apr 1880, with an ultimate destination of Zumbrota, Minnesota. Naturalization papers indicate that the father entered the U.S. through Port Huron, Michigan in May, 1880, so they may have sailed to a Canadian port, not a U.S. port. The Norway-Heritage website indicates a 15 Apr sailing of the Tasso and lists two possible connecting Inman ships: 1) City of Berlin, which arrived in New York on 2 May, 1880 and 2) City of Montreal, arriving in New York on May 8. The S/S Montreal (Dominion Line) is listed as arriving in Quebec on 9 May, 1880.

Three questions: Could the City of Montreal & the Montreal be the same vessel? If so, would they have different passenger lists? Can anyone provide the source for the article on the Tasso webpage that indicates two passengers died while being ferried out to the ship for the 15 Apr sailing? Thanks so much!
Chris

Replies:

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 28/01/2014 00:02:47
Message:

"SS City of Montreal" from Liverpool, England 1880, mentioned here
I have not looked into these links from 2004, maybe they are still in operation.

Leaving Trondheim April 14-Mai 10, total 26 days journey.

Kåre

Reply author: AntonH
Replied on: 28/01/2014 04:32:23
Message:

There was a ship the Montreal arriving in Quebec on May 9, 1880. No Torkildson in the manifest. Here is about the only passenger with the last name beginning with T. there seem to be four of them, however the manifest is only partially readable. The Montreal lists 108 passengers.

Canadian Passenger Lists, 1865-1935
Name: ??Elina Truscatt
Gender: Female
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Date of Arrival: 9 May 1880
Vessel: Montreal
Search Ship Database:
Port of Arrival: Quebec, Quebec
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England

Here is what Ancestry has on ships with the name Montreal.

City of Montreal Inman 1872-1887
Montreal Canadian Pacific 1900-1918
Montreal Canadian Pacific 1921-1928
Montreal Dominion 1879-1889
Montreal French 1912-1917

And information on the Montreal from Dominion

Ship Name: Montreal
Years in service: 1879-1889
Funnels: 1
Masts: 2
Shipping Line: Dominion
Ship description: Built by C. Connell & Co., Glasgow, Scotland. Tonnage: 3,308. Dimensions: 329' x 39'. Single-screw, 12 knots. Compound engines. Two masts and one funnel. Iron hull.
History: Maiden voyage: Liverpool-Quebec-Montreal, October 27, 1879. Wrecked on Belle Isle during a fog, August 4, 1889, with no loss of life. Sister ship: Toronto.

Reply author: AntonH
Replied on: 28/01/2014 04:44:52
Message:

Not having much luck with your New York dates. The only ship listed on Ancestry.com for May 2, 1880 is named the Flamborough.

The City of Montreal did land in New York on May 10, 1880 with 1539 passengers. About 30 passengers with last name beginning with T but none that looks like Torkildson.

Information from Ancestry.com on the City of Montreal.

Ship Name: City of Montreal
Years in service: 1872-1887
Funnels: 1
Masts: 3
Shipping Line: Inman
Ship description: Built by Tod & McGregor, Glasgow, Scotland. Tonnage: 4,489. Dimensions: 419' x 44'. Single-screw, 12 1/2 knots. Compound horizontal engines. Three masts and one funnel. New compound engines in 1876; also a second funnel installed.
History: Destroyed by fire at sea in August 1887. Passengers and crew were rescued by York City.

Reply author: cmtodd
Replied on: 28/01/2014 05:15:00
Message:

Thanks, Kåre. Ancestry.com has the passenger lists for the City of Berlin & the City of Montreal. Didn't find the family on either one. It also didn't make sense to me that they would land in New York but then formally enter the U.S. in Port Huron, Michigan.

The Trondheim Police Emigration Report for the family indicates their ship was to depart on 14 April but it lists the ship as the Tasso (which actually left on 15 Apr). I assumed they took the Tasso to Hull & then picked up a transatlantic ship in Liverpool.

I was interested in the report on the website about the problems with the 15 Apr Tasso passenger loading because I wondered if the family may have been among the injured, had to take a later ship and ended up going to a Canadian port. The infant daughter listed on the police report doesn't show up anywhere in the U.S. records (although the first record I have in the US is several years after they arrived).

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 28/01/2014 07:38:36
Message:

You are right.
Tasso went a round trip Trondheim-Hull.
Liverpool was much used as dep. port in England.

It was a long journey early April from Lierne to Trondheim with 3 young children.
Since they knew where to travel, Zumbrota, Minnesota, I believe family or friends had emigrated earlier.

537 Kroner for the ticket in 1880 is iquivalent to almost 7000 Dollar in 2013.

Kåre

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 28/01/2014 10:21:26
Message:

An 1880 journey on April 28. 1880 with SS Tasso to Hull and a 14 days earlier travel is mentioned here with people from Singsås parish on page 54

A journey on Tasso from Trondheim on June 6. 1878 to Hull is mentioned her.
From Hull the journey continued to Liverpool with the Inman Line to New York, dest. Minnesota.
Info only in Norwegian 06.06.1878 Fisherman Hans Olaus Johansen...........

The Inman line, Liverpool link

Kåre

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 28/01/2014 12:38:43
Message:

Ship list the Inman line dep. Liverpool 1880

Kåre

Reply author: cmtodd
Replied on: 28/01/2014 23:02:30
Message:

What an incredible resource this group is! Thank you all for the information.

"Lyndal40," thank you so much for the information about Ancestry and the information about the various ships. I have done general Ancestry searches on the passenger lists to no avail. Have also searched the lists for some ships arriving in NY. But I did not realize the Canadian passenger lists were listed there. I will review those in more detail. The family's last name is often misspelled in the US records (Farkelson is the most common misspelling).

Kåre, thank you so much for your insights into their travels, the current cost of their tickets, & the church record info. You are right, the family did have relatives living near Zumbrota. Ellen's parents and sister were there. I am amazed at the courage of the family to move such a long way with such young children. I have found the Norway church records for the births of two of the three children. The youngest, Gunhilda Kristine, was born 3 Sept 1879 in Meråker parish in the Øvre-Stjørdal region. So she was only 7 months when they started their journey. The boys were only 2 and 4 years old.

I found a family tree on Ancestry that lists Kristine's death as 1880 (but this had no documentation). That's what made me wonder if she may have been among the two passenger deaths that occurred during the boarding of the Tasso on 15 Apr. Or perhaps she was one of the passengers who fell in the water and later became sick. Could anyone recommend a place to look for a newspaper or other account of the problems with the 15 Apr passenger boarding of the Tasso? And again, thank you all for the wealth of information you already have provided.
Chris

Reply author: JaneC
Replied on: 28/01/2014 23:30:36
Message:

Hi Chris, Here is the passage you read, and you would like to know more about this:

"On April 15th 1880, an incident happened at the harbor in Trondheim. The Tasso had been moored by the Pier in the Nidelven river to take on passengers, but not all passengers got on board before the low tide came. The ship had to anchor up in the fjord to wait for the rest of the passengers. To get on the ship the passengers had to go by small ferryboats from a floating pier situated in the channel at a place called Ravnkloen. Several thousand people are said to have been there to say farewell to their friends and family. The floating pier was connected to land by a pontoon bridge, and the weight of all these people became too much for the old bridge. It is estimated that ¨ between 100 - 200 people fell into the channel when the bridge broke. At the same time, two ferryboats on their way out to the Tasso were filled with water by heavy seas, and one of them sank. Two people from one of the boats drowned. By a stroke of luck none of the people that fell into the channel were killed, but several had to be taken to hospital."

You ask, What is the source of this passage? It seems to come from the diary of Ingeborg Olsdatter Øye. An excerpt titled "A journey on the S/S Tasso from Christiansund to Hull in 1880" was apparently published in Dordi Glærum Skuggervik's book "Utvandringshistorie fra Nordmøre" (ISBN 02-991394-0-6). Kåre earlier posted a link that mentions this book. Does that help? The board moderator for Norway-Heritage can likely tell you for sure if this is the source. Here's a link to more from the diary:
http://www.norwayheritage.com/articles/templates/voyages.asp?articleid=76&zoneid=6

The family in question, I think:
http://digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=7&filnamn=EMITROND&gardpostnr=18793&merk=18793#ovre

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 29/01/2014 00:16:42
Message:

You are welcome.
They must have been both strong, Ole and Elen, em. with three small children.
Your Ole was educated; Telegraphist when Gunhilda was baptized in Meråker and clerk when they em. 1880.
They are rec. as leaving Lier municipality (todays Lierne) 1880 which is a distance to Trondheim on ce 220 Kilometer.
Since Ole was born in Lierne it was perahps a last farwell journey
The distance from Meråker where Gunhilda was born to Lierne are ca 130 Km (depending on where in the municip. you lived).

Lierne is today the municipality in Norway that has most bears.

Kåre.

Reply author: cmtodd
Replied on: 29/01/2014 01:33:07
Message:

Thank you Jane for the reference for the Tasso accidents.This is most helpful. I will follow up on this. It may be a false lead, but it is one more loose end to try and tie up. The Emigration Report you posted is the right one--that is the family!

Kåre, thank you for all the new information (and what you sent before--especially the long paper which is answering a lot of the questions I had about the immigration experience). I knew Ole was a clerk (from the Emigration Report), but didn't know he was a Telegraphist. I can't read much in the church records since I don't know Norwegian & the handwriting is difficult for me to read.

I think Ole was actually born in Asker. He's listed in the parish records as being born on 17 Sept 1853. Ellen was the one from the north. She was born in Hegre on 7 Feb 1856. Another mystery is why Ole went north.

They were both strong people from what I can gather. After living in Minnesota for three years, they went to South Dakota where the family was able to get homestead land. Ole's homestead papers indicate that he arrived on his land 31 Mar 1883 and that the family was living in the house by May 1. This means he (and maybe the family) had to travel 288 miles in the middle of winter to get from Minnesota to his new land. Winters in Minnesota & South Dakota can be brutal--temperatures as low as -35 F and lots of snow. Altogether the family had 11 children, but only 7 lived to adulthood. Three children died within a couple of years in South Dakota. I know child deaths were very common during this time; but how heartbreaking it must have been. It takes strength to weather such misfortune.

Thanks to everyone who provided information! I have many new things to enter on the family and many more resources to work through.

Reply author: cmtodd
Replied on: 29/01/2014 01:39:26
Message:

Sorry--Just realized Lier and Asker are close. Need to work on my Norway geography!

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 29/01/2014 09:52:34
Message:

Perhaps you are right.
Lier is a municipality in Buskerud county in southern Norway close to Asker.
Lier was also a municipality in Nord Trøndelag which later became Lierne was established as a independant parish 1871.
I thougt Ole was born in Lierne.
Need more investigation.

When Gunhilda Kristine was bap. in Meråker 1879 Ole Torgrimsen is rec. as:
Telegrafist born 1850 in Lier and Elen Kristine Kristofersdatter b. 1856.

Kåre

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 29/01/2014 14:45:37
Message:

Gunhilda Kristinas bap, record from Sept. 3. 1879, father Telegrafist Ole Torgrimsen from Lier b. 1850 #97

Em. from Trondheim April 14. 1880 link
The whole family was from Lier (Lierne to my knowledge)

Trondheim is in central Norway Sør-Trøndelag county
Lier in Buskerud county is in south-east Norway approximately 550 Kilometer from Trondheim.
Em. from Lier in Buskerud was only one day walk from the nearest dep. port which was Oslo

Have you seen Ole Torkildsens bap. record?

Kåre

Reply author: AntonH
Replied on: 29/01/2014 17:23:51
Message:

Here is the family arriving in Quebec.

Canadian Passenger Lists, 1865-1935
Name: O Forkerdin
Gender: Male
Age: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1854
Date of Arrival: 12 May 1880
Vessel: Moravian
Search Ship Database:
Port of Arrival: Quebec, Quebec
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
Roll: C-4530

Not easy to believe the name transcription, however here is the son Jens M.

Canadian Passenger Lists, 1865-1935
Name: Jens Forkerdin
Gender: Male
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1876
Date of Arrival: 12 May 1880
Vessel: Moravian
Search Ship Database:
Port of Arrival: Quebec, Quebec
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
Roll: C-4530

Reply author: AntonH
Replied on: 29/01/2014 17:30:42
Message:

The wife Elen.

Canadian Passenger Lists, 1865-1935
Name: Elin Forkerdin
Gender: Female
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857
Date of Arrival: 12 May 1880
Vessel: Moravian
Search Ship Database:
Port of Arrival: Quebec, Quebec
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
Roll: C-4530

Son Toralf

Canadian Passenger Lists, 1865-1935
Name: Harvey Forkerdin
Gender: Male
Age: 2
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1878
Date of Arrival: 12 May 1880
Vessel: Moravian
Search Ship Database:
Port of Arrival: Quebec, Quebec
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
Roll: C-4530

Daughter Kristine

Canadian Passenger Lists, 1865-1935
Name: Christina Forkerdin
Gender: Female
Date of Arrival: 12 May 1880
Vessel: Moravian
Search Ship Database:
Port of Arrival: Quebec, Quebec
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
Roll: C-4530

Reply author: JaneC
Replied on: 29/01/2014 18:02:51
Message:

Hee haw, well done lyndal40!

The original says this family is going to Zumbrota:
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/passengers-quebec-1865-1900/001082-119.02-e.php?person_id_nbr=461854&page_sequence_nbr=1&interval=20&PHPSESSID=li6oulob8t1ftgp7hs8vrnada6

Traveling on the ship MORAVIAN arriving Quebec, Quebec, 12 May 1880. The Moravian (of the Allan Line) departed Liverpool 22 April.

http://www.norwayheritage.com/p_ship.asp?sh=moraw

Reply author: AntonH
Replied on: 29/01/2014 18:24:41
Message:

Big help from Kåre for posting the Trondheim "Em. from Trondheim April 14. 1880" giving me some names to look for besides Ole, As you saw he was transcribed under O Never would have found him. But Jens that was a name that worked well. Also big help from cmtodd for the heads-up. "The family's last name is often misspelled in the US records (Farkelson is the most common misspelling)." So when I saw Jens Forkerdin age 4 in May of 1880, it was simple.

Reply author: cmtodd
Replied on: 29/01/2014 18:30:46
Message:

You have, indeed, found the family on the Moravian! What time you have saved me. I had just started searching through the Quebec arrivals for May. This finding is so important in my search for Gunhilda Kristine. Now I know that she did arrive with the family in the U.S. Am trying to track down immigration records for Port Huron but it is difficult. Not kept systematically until 1885. Thank you!!

Reply author: JaneC
Replied on: 29/01/2014 18:32:47
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by cmtodd

I found a family tree on Ancestry that lists Kristine's death as 1880 (but this had no documentation).

---

Reply author: cmtodd
Replied on: 29/01/2014 19:07:26
Message:

Kåre, I have found birth/baptism records for Ole, Elen, Jens & Kristine (Gunhilda Kristine). Have not found one yet for Thoralf. The family seems to have moved around a lot. The record I have for Kristine is a little different than the one you found but contains essentially the same information. I think the birth date for Ole is actually 1853. It is a little clearer on the version I found. I'll try to put hyperlinks below. Haven't done this yet!

Here is link to Ole#216

Here is link to Elen #16

Here is link to Jens Martin..#66

Here is link to Gunhilda Kristine#54..

The English translation of the Em. report I found indicates that Lier was their residence. A transcription I found of Ole's obituary indicated he was born "near Christiana, Norway Sept 17, 1853)...He was married to Ellen Kristine Romo June 7, 1864..." [this date is probably a transcription error or wrong. Ellen would have been only 8 yrs old!] Haven't found their marriage record yet.

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 29/01/2014 20:01:34
Message:

Wow.
Ole born on farm Sandbakken in Asker parish at Oslo Sept. 17. 1853.
Parents; Thorkel Olsen and Marthe Haraldsdatter.

Coffe time

Kåre

Reply author: cmtodd
Replied on: 29/01/2014 20:09:16
Message:

Jane, Thanks so much for the heads up on the birth date. I went back and checked the Ancestry family trees. They all list the date as 1880, with a place of Lake City, South Dakota. If any of this information is valid, either the date or the location is wrong. The Census and homestead info I have for the family consistently points to their arrival in South Dakota in 1883.

I can't find the family in the 1880 Minnesota Census. The 1880 census entry for Ellen's relatives in Minnesota were June 5th (Bereth Iverson, Wanamingo, MN) and June 17th (Christopher Johnson, Belle Creek, MN). Perhaps Ole & the family were still enroute to stay with her sister. The paper Kåre referenced gives the typical route from Quebec to Minnesota and some info on how much time it took. That may help with this hypothesis.

I have also contacted likely churches in Minnesota to see if they have record of Gunhilda Kristine's death. I've not received any response, however. I found a recent 13 Dec 2010 post on minnesotahistory.net that one of the worst blizzards ever in Minnesota happened on 15 Oct 1880. The storm came on unexpectedly, dropped 15" of snow in some areas and started one of the worst winters ever in the midwest. Adding terrible cold and snow to the stresses of a baby just coming off the immigration from Norway may have been too much for her. But this is one strong family, so perhaps she did make it to South Dakota. Can't rule that out yet. On Nov 22, 1892 Ole wrote in his homestead application that his family consisted of "wife and 8 children" and "we have" resided on the land since first establishing residence thereon [May 1883]. So, the first Gunhilda Kristine had likely died by then. The 1900 census indicates Ellen had had 10 children by 1900, 9 of whom were living. Eight children are listed [Jens is missing--haven't found him yet], including a Hilda C who was listed as being born in Dec 1882. This Hilda C was the next child to die, in Aug 1900. All the evidence I have found so far supports the view that Gunhilda Kristine, born in 1879 and Hilda C, born in 1882, are different children.

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 29/01/2014 21:01:08
Message:

Elen Kirstine Christophersdatter/Kristoffersdatter born on farm Rømo in Hegra Feb. 7. 1856
Parents; Christopher Jensen Rømo and Gunhild Arntsdatter Gederaas

A search on Google gave me this family-tree

Kåre

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 29/01/2014 21:11:38
Message:

Marriage in Hegra parish, Øvre Stjørdal June 7. 1876;
Bachelor Ole Torkildsen "Jernbanearbeider" Railroad-worker from farm Sandbakken in Asker and maid Elen Kirstine Kristoffersdatter Gederaas, see couple #11

Photos of Hegra church build 1783 includes the altar where Ole and Elen married 1876

In Norway Hegra is known from WW2 and the Battle of Hegra Fortress 1940

Kåre

Reply author: cmtodd
Replied on: 29/01/2014 22:59:03
Message:

Oh, Kåre, how wonderful to have this information! To see the actual church where Ole and Elen were married and to have so much more information added to what is known about the family is overwhelming!

One surprise is that Elen's middle name was Kirstine, not Kristine. Looking back at the writing I can clearly see that now. Went back and checked Gunhilda Kristine's name to be sure I hadn't misread that as well. It does look to me that it is Kristine, not Kirstine.

I'm also glad to find records confirming that Elen is listed as Kristophersdatter. Almost all the family trees I found listed her as Jensdatter. But that didn't make sense to me given the Norwegian naming practices of the times. I started listing her as Kristophersdatter in my tree. The marriage record clearly supports this name.

It is so interesting to see how Ole's profession changed over time--from railroad worker, to telegraphist, to clerk, and then to farmer in the US. (He farmed for at least 27 and perhaps as much as 30 years in South Dakota). What a change it must have been to go from office jobs to farming. Ole (and Elen!) must have been very open to taking risks. I'm not sure I would have the courage to do what they did.

Many, many thanks to all of you who have added so much richness to this family's life!

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 29/01/2014 23:52:24
Message:

You are welcome Chris.

Does your name Chris has anything to (Elen) Christophersen to do?

Ca 50 % of the population in Norway emigrated to America from ca 1830 to WW1, it was called America fever, family, friends, neighbors em.
It was hard times for those who had to stay, espesially the parents etc. knowing they would never meet again
From the many thousands of letters we know that many were homesick for their "valleys, forests and lakes", but the important thing for the parents was that the children did not have to starve anymore.
The railroad to Hegra was opened one year after Ole emigrated, so we can assume that he had walked here several times.

Rømo is an old farm, spelled Røttmo 1559, Rødmou/Røttmou 1590, Rømo 1610, Rømmoe 1626 and Røemoen 1723.
The name Rømo, rød means red, and mo means plane land, namet after the red color of Bog iron

If some of interest or importance emerge I will post it here.

Good night from Norway.

Kåre

Reply author: JaneC
Replied on: 30/01/2014 03:13:43
Message:

Love the rich details Kåre adds.

Chris, about the baby Kristine dying in Lake City, Marshall, South Dakota in 1880 - maybe a descendant has heard a family story of this? Maybe the family story mistakenly says "Lake City" because that is where Thoralf lived? And a younger brother Gustav? (and perhaps others in the family...) I think you are correct to suspect the Lake City story, but it would be interesting to know where the family tree creator got that idea. Probably one person posted the information, and others merely copied it. It's possible a friend or relative lived in Lake City and the Torkildsons landed there first as a kind of headquarters, while scouting for the land they'd like to homestead.

1921 US Patent for a car jack by Torl Torkildson of Lake City, Marshall, South Dakota
http://www.google.com/patents/US1394375

1930 Torl Torkildson, widowed, in Lake City, Marshall, South Dakota - working as a mechanic in a garage
1940 Torl Torkildson, married to Agnes, in Lake City, Marshall, South Dakota
Find-a-Grave: Torl Torkildson born Aug. 20, 1877, died Nov. 11, 1956, buried Lake City cemetery (South Dakota Death Index names him Thoralf Torkildson)

In the USA, his older brother Jens = Martin Jens Torkildson (born 28 October 1875 - died 1932 Fort Totten, Benson, North Dakota)
When Jens Martin died, Thoralf married his widow, per Find-a-Grave biography
Gustave Adolphus Torkildson (1882-1930) also lived in Lake City
It seems there would be plenty of chances for descendants to get confused about Lake City.

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Torkildson&GSiman=1&GSst=44&GRid=57389104&

The births of the next children of Ole and Ellen - the first born in the USA - are the best clues to finding Kristine's death, as I'm sure you've already calculated. Their death records or obits or descendants may tell their exact place of birth, and those would be the locations the family lived 1880-1883 (presumably Goodhue County, Minnesota) and where Kristine most likely died. To help you we'd need to know all the information you've ferreted out in this regard, though I suspect that if you cannot find her death, after all your efforts, the forum maybe can't either.

BTW: Given the errors you mention, sprinkled through the family trees on Ancestry, I think it's really cool you are building credible, solid research to find the true story.

Reply author: AntonH
Replied on: 30/01/2014 03:57:12
Message:

Here is the family in 1900. Hilda was born somewhere in Minnesota in Dec 1882. The next in line Peter O. was born in South Dakota on Feb 25, 1885.

1900 United States Federal Census
Name: Hilda C Torkeldsen
[Halda C Takeldson]
Age: 17
Birth Date: Dec 1882
Birthplace: Minnesota
Home in 1900: Pleasant, Clark, South Dakota
Race: White
Gender: Female
Relation to Head of House: Daughter
Marital status: Single
Father's Name: Ole Torkeldsen
Father's Birthplace: Norway
Mother's Name: Ellen K Torkeldsen
Mother's Birthplace: Norway
Occupation:
Household Members:
Name Age
Ole Torkeldsen 76
Ellen K Torkeldsen 44
Thoralf Torkeldsen 22
Hilda C Torkeldsen 17
Peter O Torkeldsen 15
Clara M Torkeldsen 13
Hattie E Torkeldsen 11
Onolda J Torkeldsen 9
Harrold I Torkeldsen 5

South Dakota Births, 1856-1903
Name: Peter Oscar Torkildson
Birth Date: 25 Feb 1885
Gender: Male
County: Clark
Father's Name: Ole Torkeldson
Mother's Name: Ellen Christina Roomo

Reply author: AntonH
Replied on: 30/01/2014 04:04:37
Message:

While looking for the birth record for Hilda, I came across this record. I am not sure where it fits in your search, however there are too many names that fit your search to not post it.

Minnesota, Births and Christenings Index, 1840-1980
Name: Gunhilde Christina Torklesind
Birth Date: 5 Dec 1882
Birth Place: Dodge, Minnesota
Gender: Female
Christening Place: Dodge, Minnesota
Father's Name: Ole Torklesind
Mother's Name: Ellen
FHL Film Number: 1316663

Reply author: AntonH
Replied on: 30/01/2014 04:08:12
Message:

Same record but more information on where the birth city was. Note, Dodge is adjacent to Goodhue County. Is it possible that the first Gunhilda Kristine died between arrival in May of 1880 and this birth in Dec 1882 in Minnesota and died in Minnesota. And the Hilda in the 1900 Census is this Gunhilde, name shortened to Hilda for that Census.

One other thing that probably complicates the search is that they may have come to Minnesota after the 1880 Census and left before the 1885 Minnesota Census.

Minnesota, Births and Christenings Index, 1840-1980
Name: Gunhilde Christina Torklesond
Birth Date: 5 Dec 1882
Birth Place: Claremont, Dodge, Minnesota
Gender: Female
Race: White
Father's Name: Ole
Father's Birth Place: Norway
Mother's Name: Ellen
Mother's Birth Place: Norway
FHL Film Number: 1316663

Reply author: JaneC
Replied on: 30/01/2014 04:17:51
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by lyndal40

Same record but more information on where the birth city was. Note, Dodge is adjacent to Goodhue County. Is it possible that the first Gunhilda Kristine died between arrival in May of 1880 and this birth in Dec 1882 in Minnesota and died in Minnesota. And the Hilda in the 1900 Census is this Gunhilde, name shortened to Hilda for that Census.

Minnesota, Births and Christenings Index, 1840-1980
Name: Gunhilde Christina Torklesond
Birth Date: 5 Dec 1882
Birth Place: Claremont, Dodge, Minnesota
Gender: Female
Race: White
Father's Name: Ole
Father's Birth Place: Norway
Mother's Name: Ellen
Mother's Birth Place: Norway
FHL Film Number: 1316663

---

Reply author: AntonH
Replied on: 30/01/2014 04:20:08
Message:

JaneC, maybe. One of the Family Trees in Ancestry. has these two.

Gustav Adolphus Torkildson
Birth Apr 12, 1881 in Zumbrota, MN
Death Mar 23, 1930 in Lake City, SD

Gunhilda Kristine Torkildson
Birth Dec 05, 1882
Death Aug 01, 1900 in Vienna, SD

Reply author: JaneC
Replied on: 30/01/2014 04:23:01
Message:

Yes, I was about to ask about that. I listed Gustav Adolphus Torkildson b 1882 (per FAG) in my previous note, as having lived in Lake City, Marshall, South Dakota - buried same town as Thoralf, and he appears in the census there also.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Torkildson&GSfn=Gustav&GSbyrel=all&GSdyrel=all&GSob=n&GRid=39494618&df=all&

Reply author: AntonH
Replied on: 30/01/2014 04:27:32
Message:

I changed my above post, since it appears that Gustav was actually born in 1881 which at least means that Ellen could have given birth to Gustav in April of 1881 and Gunhilda in Dec of 1882.

U.S., World War I Draft Registration Cards, 1917-1918
Name: Gust A Torkildson
County: Marshall
State: South Dakota
Birth Date: 12 Apr 1881
Race: White

Reply author: JaneC
Replied on: 30/01/2014 04:31:40
Message:

Bravo. So the first Kristine must have died before December 1882 and most likely in Goodhue or Dodge county Minnesota, unless she died as her family traveled there.

The "died in 1880 in Lake City, South Dakota" story is now implausible. If all these facts are on the table in that family tree you looked at, why would this story persist?

from the Dalby Database:

Gunhild Romo nee Gederaas born 1829, died 04 Aug 1889, buried Minneola Lutheran Cemetery. Spouse: Kristoffer Jenson Romo.

Kristoffer Jenson Romoe born 12 August 1827, died 25 Oct 1896, buried Minneola Lutheran Cemetery, Spouse: Gunhild Gederaas, par. Jens Romoe

I suppose it's possible a little baby could be buried here in an unmarked grave, and possibly the death not registered. (Just one possible place of burial.) Sometimes additional names are inscribed on a main tombstone:
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Romo&GSiman=1&GScid=360554&GRid=35666767&

Reply author: cmtodd
Replied on: 30/01/2014 07:11:14
Message:

Wow! I'm gone for a few hours and you all have figured out everything that has taken me two years to discover. And more! What an awesome group this is!

Everything you have found is correct. What I hadn't found before was the birth location for the second Gunhilda Kristine. I had her birthdate (unverified) from another family tree but no location. Now that I know that she was born in Dodge county I can look for more info there. And I agree with you all--finding some verification of her birthdate suggests that the first Gunhilda died before Dec 1882.

Jane, I agree with you that the 1880 date on Ancestry probably has roots in family stories or records and may be correct. Since we know that Gunhilda was on the passenger list when the family arrived in Quebec, she was alive then (unless the list was compiled during the voyage and no one noted that she had died on board). If the 1880 date is correct, then the first Gunhilda either died between Quebec and Minnesota or in Minnesota shortly after the family arrived (dying as a result of the Oct 1880 snowstorm is certainly a possibility). I'm going to try to pursue this line of thinking. Here's my plan (comments welcome!):

--Continue trying to find a Port Huron immigration record for the family; if Gunhilda died between Quebec & Port Huron she won't be listed on that document (I've contacted a Port Huron museum asking about possible local records)

--Check local newspapers in Goodhue county for possible info on family's arrival; may list family members at arrival.

--Continue checking Goodhue Lutheran churches for records.
In calling Goodhue churches about a year ago I discovered that there were many new immigrant churches being set up around 1880 but that one minister traveled to most of them from the mother church for baptisms, marriages, and funerals. I contacted the mother church; they were going to look for death records but I never heard back. I'll contact them again.

One last thing I will do is to take all this information back to relatives and see if anyone can provide any more information. Sometimes new information elicits new memories. Kåre, to answer your question--I am related to this family but my name doesn't come from this line. Ole & Ellen's son, Peter, married Olena Christina, my grandmother. The family story is that my first name (Christine) is a variation on her second name.

I feel I owe it to the family to tell their story correctly. Thank you all for your insights and hard work! You have helped me tremendously in this effort!

Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 30/01/2014 08:48:54
Message:

Ole Thorkildsen, his father and stepmother and brother in Lier, Buskerud in 1865.

Ole was confirmated April 18 1869 in Frogner church, Lier, #31.

Oles father who was at Stustad in Lier married his 2nd wife Marith Olsdatter Febr 10 1863, #4.

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 30/01/2014 09:11:37
Message:

Christopher Jensen, crofter with land, farmer and Gunnild Arntsdatter on farm Kaldalen with 4 children, Arnt, Eli (Elen) Kjersti and Caroline 1865

His father Jens Christophersen, farmer and leaseholder and his wife Eli Rollufs-Rollaugsdatter on Rømoen østre (Eastern Rømoen) and 3 children, Lisbeth, Peter and Berit 1865

Emiration Hegra in Stjørdal Feb. 21. 1874.
Christopher Jensen Gederaas and Gunnild Arntsdatter, son Jens Christophersen b. 1846 married to Randi Olsdatter with 4 children, right page #1-9

Trondheim Feb. 24. 1874
Not all rec. by name.
Christopher Jensen Farmer and Gunnild, Two children Carl Gustaf and Caroline, their son Jens Christophersen Gederaas, laborer, with wife Randi and a son Christopher age 4, dest Red Wing, Minnesota. Alan line with Steamship Leif to England link

I believe some from this family lived under lastname Gederaas in Minnesota.

Kåre

Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 30/01/2014 09:33:12
Message:

I don't know if you have this, but I am posting it anyway.
Ole Torkildsen and Elen Kirstine Kristoffersdatter were married June 7 1876, #11.

Their first child Jens Martines was "uægte" born Oct 28 1875, #66.

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 30/01/2014 09:50:23
Message:

Find a grave for Gederaas/Romø

Good finding Einar.
So Ole lived on farm Hennum søndre (southern Hennum) in Lier 1865, then Lierne was a blind gate
Curious why he gave Lier as place of living when he em. via Trondheim 1880 when they came from Hegra.
We will probably never know.

Maybe he was just kidding with the clerk

Kåre

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 30/01/2014 10:48:18
Message:

Ole Torkildsens half brother Anders Torkildsens b. 1865 married Olava Berntsdatter in Lier.
Anders, farmer and carpenter on farm Stustad with 6 children 1900

They sold farm Stustad on auction 1905 to Anders Gundersen Hennnum and settled down on farm Hennumshagen, see Lier 1910
You seems to have a large family in Lier

Oles father Torkild Olsen died 1893.
Oles mother Marthe Haraldadatter born 1821 on farm Sjåstadeie in Lier (a sub farm under Sjåstad) died 1861.
Your Ole was their only son.

Kåre

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 30/01/2014 11:33:00
Message:

Torkel/Torkild Olsen born on farm Sonsrud (Sønsrud?) in (Rønnes) Rødenes March. 14. 1816
Parents: Ole Amundsen and Anne Nilsdatter, see 3. from top here

Rødenes

Kåre

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 30/01/2014 11:54:29
Message:

Oles mother Marthe Haraldsdatter born on farm Sjåstadeie August 30. 1821.
Parents Haral Xtensen (Christensen) and Randi Pedersdatter Sjaastad Eje
Right page #64
All of the godparents were fom the same farm.

Kåre

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 30/01/2014 12:05:20
Message:

Norwegian Tove Elisabeth Gulliksruds family tree from April 2013 for Randi Pedersdatter and Harald Christensen Sjåstadeie.
See under nr 67.....Children of Peder Gundersen and Marte Olsdatter......marked v
Notes for Harald, he was a "smed" black smith, click here

Kåre

Reply author: cmtodd
Replied on: 30/01/2014 16:54:07
Message:

Just lost a reply I was writing--accidentally hit delete button for webpage--Hate when that happens!

I am in awe of what everyone has found. Would like to reciprocate in some way.

Have found some info on Port Huron, Michigan immigration info. Existing databases seem to be from after 1880. May be some earlier records in Port Huron museums. Am trying to track that down now. Will post it here if I find anything (it will take a while--may even have to go there!).

I could provide more info on what happened to the families once they got to the US. There are MANY descendants. My apologies for not posting more info to guide your searches. Never expected this much assistance--only expected info on where to look for passenger lists! What an amazing resource this forum is. Do let me know how I can reciprocate. Would be glad to post more here.

Kåre, I have one question. When I follow the link below I don't see the emigration date or the family. I do apologize if it is there. I often have trouble reading the Norwegian handwriting. Can you tell me the number of the family? Thanks!!

Emiration Hegra in Stjørdal Feb. 21. 1874.
Christopher Jensen Gederaas and Gunnild Arntsdatter, son Jens Christophersen b. 1846 married to Randi Olsdatter with 4 children, right page #1-9

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 30/01/2014 17:01:53
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kåarto


Emiration Hegra in Stjørdal Feb. 21. 1874.
Christopher Jensen Gederaas and Gunnild Arntsdatter, son Jens Christophersen b. 1846 married to Randi Olsdatter with 4 children, right page #1-9

Kåre

---

Reply author: cmtodd
Replied on: 30/01/2014 17:32:56
Message:

Thanks, Kåre! Got it.

May have found a connection to Dodge County Minnesota where the second Gunhilda Kristine was born in 1882. Elen's sister, Kjersten Oline, was living in Concord, Dodge, Minnesota in 1880 with her husband, Peder J Kyllo. Here is a link to findagrave info on Kjersten: Go to Findagrave. 1880 Concord Will review 1880 Census records for Concord area to see if I can find Ole & family. Concord sensus data collected on 10 & 17 June, so Ole may not have arrived yet. Also need to check cemeteries there.

Reply author: cmtodd
Replied on: 30/01/2014 17:36:00
Message:

Searched Hegra Church Cemetery in Goodhue county where Kjersten is buried--no evidence of the first Gunhilda buried there.

Reply author: cmtodd
Replied on: 30/01/2014 18:03:05
Message:

Kristopher Romo's daughter, Berith C, appears to be the first person in the family to emigrate from Norway. 1900 Census says she arrived in US around 1865. She married Iver Rolfseng Iverson (a widower with one child) 30 Oct 1868 (date not documented) and they are listed in the 1870 census for Wanamingo, Goodhue, Minnesota (Iver, Berith (listed as Betsey), Martha (7) (child from Iver's previous marriage to Elisabeth Sivertsdtr Greseth) and Elizabeth (10/12). They remain in Wanamingo until their deaths on 16 Nov 1924 (Iver) & 26 Nov 1909 (Berith) - Minnesota Death Index 1908-2002 for both deaths. Looks like they had 12 children together.

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 30/01/2014 18:22:15
Message:

Leving Hegra Feb. 21 and dep. Trondheim April 14. they were not busy.
The distance from Hegra ca 70 Kilometer.
Just a thought; Parts of the railroad called "Meråkerbanen" Meråker Line was already finished 1879, officially opened 1881, even more officially opened 1882 by king Oscar.
Ole worked for the railroad company as clerk, one of the god parents, ranked one, when Gunhilda Kristina was bap. 1879 in Meråker was Equipment Manager Johan S. Støre from Verdal.
It`s tempting to think that they traveled by train to Trondheim 1880.

Reply author: cmtodd
Replied on: 30/01/2014 19:59:11
Message:

Interesting idea! Always wondered why Elen didn't leave with her family in 1874. Would make sense if she was involved with Ole and didn't want to go. With his job, he may not feel the pull to America at that time.

But would a family leave a young, unmarried girl in Norway? Her brother Arnd is the only one I can't find in US. Maybe family thought Arnd would watch over her until she married.

(Suspect missing #5 on the 1874 parish emigration record is her brother Peter--1900 US census says he emigrated in 1874.)

Son Jens M born 28 Oct 1875; Elen probably got pregnant in Feb 1875. Assume she knew Ole for a while before that. So perhaps family did know Ole before they left, esp. since they didn't leave Trondheim until Apr. Wonder where they were between Feb & Apr!

I'm always amazed at how many mysteries there are to solve!

Reply author: cmtodd
Replied on: 30/01/2014 22:08:25
Message:

Severe Winter of 1880-81 - Excepts from "The Immigrants' Trek: A Detailed History of the Lake Hendricks Colony in Brookings County, Dakota Territory, from 1873-1881" By GUSTAV O. SANDRO
--"The great storm came as early as October 13-14 and the snow never cleared away entirely again until May of the following year....
--Caught so unexpectedly early in the fall by the snowstorms, many settlers were poorly prepared for winter....
--Most of the colonists used all their flour long before spring released them from the snow in which they were virtually imprisoned. They were forced to grind wheat on the little coffee grinders...
--Shortage of fuel occurred in many homes. The haystacks then were used as sources for fuel....
--The little huts on the prairie were completely covered by the drifts of snow, and at places several feet of it lay on top of the roofs.... --Tunnels were excavated from the cabin doors to the surface of the snow....
--Tunnels were excavated from the house to the woodpile, from the house to the stable, and from the latter place to the well.
--An immense amount of labor was expended throughout the
winter, in order to keep the tunnels open...."

Enormous stress on families, especially those with children.

Reply author: cmtodd
Replied on: 30/01/2014 22:12:03
Message:

Sorry, meant to list the pages & put link for excepts on snowstorm: pp. 27-30. Link to articley

Reply author: cmtodd
Replied on: 30/01/2014 23:19:36
Message:

From "From Singsås to America" (earlier link from Kåre):

Ole & Elen arrived in Quebec on 12 May 1880 on S/S Moravian. Per the above paper, passengers usually stayed on ship for a day to be processed and have health checks. Then had to arrange for passage on trains and ferry. By 1860's Grand Trunk Railway System had line from Quebec to Sarnia on Canadian side of US Border. From Sarnia, immigrants took ferry across St. Clair River to Port Huron, MI. [family processed into the US here]. Then took train to Chicago. By 1879, railways extended all the way to Brookings, SD (although I found another source that seemed to suggest some railways west didn't start until 1880). So looks like Ole & family possibly could have traveled by train & ferry from Quebec to probably Red Wing, Minnesota. Ole's immigration paper said entered US at Port Huron in May, 1880.

If trains took about the same amount of time as today, and assuming no problems anywhere, 3 days in Quebec to get processed & arrange transportation, and a couple of days in Port Huron to get processed, I estimate the very soonest the family could have arrived in Minnesota was the beginning of June. If trains took longer or there were delays, could be much longer.

So hard to say if they were in Minnesota for the 1880 census. Technically, could have been, especially if in area where census was done in mid-June. But with any delays, probably not, especially if census in area was done in the first week of June.

Ok, that's it for today! Time to rest the body and brain.

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 30/01/2014 23:39:23
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by cmtodd

Interesting idea! Always wondered why Elen didn't leave with her family in 1874. Would make sense if she was involved with Ole and didn't want to go. With his job, he may not feel the pull to America at that time.

But would a family leave a young, unmarried girl in Norway? Her brother Arnd is the only one I can't find in US. Maybe family thought Arnd would watch over her until she married.

(Suspect missing #5 on the 1874 parish emigration record is her brother Peter--1900 US census says he emigrated in 1874.)

Son Jens M born 28 Oct 1875; Elen probably got pregnant in Feb 1875. Assume she knew Ole for a while before that. So perhaps family did know Ole before they left, esp. since they didn't leave Trondheim until Apr. Wonder where they were between Feb & Apr!

I'm always amazed at how many mysteries there are to solve!

---

Reply author: cmtodd
Replied on: 31/01/2014 16:49:41
Message:

Trying to work systematically through the info you all have provided (many thanks!!). A few questions:

1). Trondheim Police Em. report says Ole (26) , Elen (23) , Jens M (4,5), Thoralf (2,5) & Kristine (.5) Torkilds. left Trondheim on Tasso on 14 Apr 1880. Family is on passenger list for Moravian leaving Liverpool 22 Apr, arriving Quebec 12 May.

Nearest Tasso voyage on Norway-Heritage site is 15 Apr. Should I assume they traveled on this voyage? Is there anywhere I should look for Tasso passenger lists? (haven't found any so far in my searches).

2) Still can't find birth record for Ole Torkildson & Elen Kristoffersdatter's second child: Thoralf (also called Torl). Undocumented info lists birth as 20 Aug 1877 in Asker.

Trondheim police em. report lists age as 2,5 as of 13 Apr 1880, so 1877 is probably birth year.

Location probably wrong, given following documented info:
--First son, Jens Martinas, born 28 Oct 1875 in Hegra
--Third child, Gunhilda Kristine, born 3 Sept 1879 in Meráker.

Would appreciate help finding this birth record. My simple searches on Digital Archives haven't worked!

Reply author: JaneC
Replied on: 31/01/2014 20:41:27
Message:

Hi Chris, I didn't find Thoralf's birth either.

Probably the source of the birth date:

World War I Draft Registration
Sep 1918
Thoralf Torkildson age 41
Birth date: 20 Aug 1877
No birth place listed.
Residence: Lake City, Marshall County, South Dakota, USA
Occupation: Automobile repairing, Torkildson Bros.
Nearest relatives:
Ellen Torkildson, mother
Vienna Clark
Signed: Thoralf Torkildson

1900 US Census in Pleasant, Clark, South Dakota
Thoralf Torkeldsen age 22 born Aug 1877 in Norway, to USA 1880

No full dob here:
South Dakota Marriages, 1905-1949
Name: T Torkildson
Age: 29
Gender: Male
Spouse: Ruth M Eaton
Marriage Date: 28 May 1907
Marriage County: Roberts
County of Residence: Marshall
Post Office: Luffman

No exact dob here either:
South Dakota Board of Health Record of Marriage
15 April 1936
Aberdeen, Brown, South Dakota
Torl Torkildson age 58
Nationality: American
to
Agnes Torkildson age 55
Nationality: American
Residence for both: Lake City, SD

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 31/01/2014 23:58:48
Message:

No hit for Thoralf.

Undocumented info.
Thoralf Olsen born August 20. 1877, most likely in Nord-Trøndelag county.
Parents Ole Torkildsen and Elen Kristoffer-Christoffer/Christophersdatter

Kåre

Reply author: cmtodd
Replied on: 01/02/2014 07:25:34
Message:

Thanks Jane & Kåre. Went back and checked individual Norway church registers for places Ole lived (Hegra, Meråker, Lier, Asker) on off-chance there was an entry that didn't get into the database. No luck there. I'm going to conclude for now that either the birth was not recorded in Norway or that it is in a parish record that isn't online (there were few instances where only the parish copy existed, but I didn't notice any places where there was no info on the parish).

We'll just have to go with what we can find in the US sources at the moment. In addition to the two sources you found, Jane, the 1900 Census also lists his birth as Aug 1877. So there are three sources (1900 Census, WWI Draft Reg & tombstone) that support an Aug 1877 time frame and two that support 20 Aug 1877 as birth date (Draft Reg & tombstone). The age on his two marriage records, also appears consistent with an 1877 birth year. On the other census records, the age he gives doesn't always translate to an 1877 date but the dates aren't off by more than a year from an Aug 1877 birthdate. Except for the 1940 census, we don't know who provided the info to the census taker. And heck--I don't always give my age correctly any more either! I think it is safe to say that both Torl and his family believed his birthdate was 20 Aug 1877.

As to location, I would agree with you, Kåre, that Nord-Trøndelag county is the most likely place, given that both his siblings were born there and he is the middle child.

Thanks for your help on this!

Reply author: cmtodd
Replied on: 01/02/2014 20:52:46
Message:

Loose End #2--Where did Ole & family leave from in 1880?

Gunhilda Kristine baptized on 19 Oct 1879 in Meråker but
Trondheim Em. report specifies family lived in Lier at time of emigration in Apr 1880.

Tried Digital Archives database searches but didn't find any relevant records (still not sure I am doing this effectively, however). Also searched individual parish registers.

Q. 1: Any record of Ole leaving Meråker for Lier or America between 1879 & 1880?

Checked Øvre Stjørdal / Meråker parish registers records 1879-1881 (both in official register & copy)
--no indication in Udflyttede list that Ole left parish
(entries are orderly & fairly easy to read. Lots of entries, especially in 1880--33 in '79, 110 in '80, 81 in '81)

Q. 3: Any record of Ole leaving Hegre for Lier or America between 1879 & 1880?

Checked Øvre Stjørdal / Hegra parish register
1879-1881 (official register--no copy for relevant years)
--no indication in Udflyttede list that Ole left parish
(entries are orderly & fairly easy to read. No entries from previous years. 31 entries in 1879; 85 in 1880 & 108 in 1881)

Q. 3: any record of Ole leaving Lier for America in 1880?

Checked Busterud-Lier 1879-1882 official (no copy posted)
--no indication in Indflytteda that Ole came into parish
--no indication in Udflyttede list that Ole left parish
(For 1879-80, the dates in the Opgiven datum. column are often from past years, sometimes 5 or more years earlier. This was also the case in the record that Kåre found for Ole leaving Lier in 1872--it wasn't recorded until 1874. Starting in 1881, things get much better. Few entries from past years in 1881 and almost none in 1882. So there seems to be a pattern of information not being recorded in the church registers in a timely fashion before 1881. Also not as many entries as in Meråker for the target year year of 1880--40 in 1879, 97 in 1880, 91 in 1881.

My thinking at this point--The records in both Hegra and Meråker are well done. Can't know for sure, but given the care with which the church records seem to be recorded, may be more likely that Ole never reported leaving than that minister didn't record data. Never found Thoralf's birth record either despite database search & searching individual church records. May suggest a pattern of not reporting by family. Can't rule out, however, that data for both emigration & Thoralf's birth reported but not recorded in church book.

Data from Lier suggest that data prior to 1881 are not being recorded in a timely manner. Can't rule out that people are just not reporting in a timely manner during this period, but given that the recording situation improves in 1881, it may be a recording problem during this time, not a reporting problem.

Also gave some thought to why Ole might be in Lier in 1880. All of Elen's immediate family (except, perhaps, one brother--Arnt) had emigrated to US by 1874. Ole's family was still in Lier after that per the info Kåre found. Perhaps Ole & family did go back there after Gundhilda's birth to be closer to Ole's family.

As an aside, I have a much better appreciation of Kåre's earlier comment that it was very hard on families that remained in Norway. How hard it must have been for everyone who stayed. Even though emigration certainly isn't easy, at least those who left had the promise of a new, and perhaps better, life. Those who remained had to figure out how to carry on with many fewer people and without those that they loved. How hard it must have been.

At this point, have a feeling that the needed emigration records don't exist. May never be able to tie up this loose end. Any further suggestions of places to search or other things to do?

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 01/02/2014 23:58:58
Message:

Hi.
There must be some datails that do not match!
Ole leaving Lier 1872 for Støren in Sør-Trøndelag county.
Ole married Elen Kirstine in Hegra parish 1876
Christening of Gunhilda Kirstine in Meråker Oct. 19. 1879
Em. from Trondheim April 1880, place of living; LIER.

It was not possible to travel from Meråker to Lier in the wintertime crossing a mountain pass twice, with small children? and returned to Trondheim under 5 months.
The distance (round trip) Trondheim-Lier were at least 1300 Kilometer if you started from Meråker.

Perhaps Ole mentioned Lier because he grew up there, and both of his parents were botn in Lier.

If they against all odds had come to Lier the em. would have taken place from Oslo which is ca 35 Km from Lier.

Kåre

Reply author: cmtodd
Replied on: 02/02/2014 00:49:24
Message:

Thanks, Kåre. That is most helpful information. It didn't make sense to me either that they would live in Lier but go to Trondheim to leave. The only thing I could think of was perhaps Ole had been transferred by the railroad to Lier after Gunhilda was born and Elen wanted to see family again before they left for America.

I'm guessing from your response is that there weren't railroads from Lier to Trondheim back then. I agree there is no way a family with young children could travel twice by foot or wagon between Lier and r/Hegra given the distance & geography.

Also, Elen's immediate family was already in the U.S. So no real family reason to go back to Meråker, unless she wanted to visit extended family.

Would have been nice if there had been a record of his leaving Meråker in the church registers!

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 02/02/2014 01:19:39
Message:

One option I did not know about was the Røros line between Trondheim and Hamar and with horse and cart to Eidsvoll to take the Trunk Line to Oslo and from there to Lier

Lier is rec. as place of home in the em. rec. in Trondheim for the whole family.

If one decides everything is possible, and Ole perhaps still worked for the railroad company and if he traveled alone.

Hopefully tomorrow the problem can be solved.
Time to get some sleep in Norway.

Kåre

Reply author: cmtodd
Replied on: 02/02/2014 15:52:21
Message:

Thank you, Kåre, for providing so much help. It looks like there may have been railroads for much of the journey, but I'm not sure not all.

The Trunk Line would have gotten them to Eidsvoll.

The link you provided for the Røros Line indicated the following dates for each section:

Hamar - Elverum (Grundset) - 1862
Grundset - Rena (Aamot) - 1871
Rena - Koppang - 1875
Koppang - Røros - 1877
Singsås - Røros - 1876
Singsås - Støren - 1876
Støren - Trondhjem - 1864

The northern & southern sections of the above were joined on 14 Aug 1877 and the full line was officially opened on 13 Oct 1877.

It also says: "The connection southwards from Hamar was with boat over the lake Mjøsa to Eidsvoll, and the Hoved Line to Oslo (Krisiania). The railway connection between Edisvoll and Hamar opened as the Eidsvold-Hamar line in 1880."

I couldn't find an exact date for opening of the Eidsvold-Hamar line. If it was open by the time the family started on their travels, it looks like they technically could go all the way from Oslo to Trondheim by train. How long do you think it would take to travel that distance by train?

If the Eidsvold-Hamar section was not open, then they would have had to take a steamer ship across Lake Mjøsa from Eidsvold to Hamar. Would that have been possible in the winter?

What are the typical winter months in Norway?

I can't imagine traveling such a long distance, even by train, with three young children (one a very young baby). What would have driven them to go north to leave if they did, indeed, reside in Lier at the time of their emigration? I can't think that visiting extended family would be worth such a trip.

So many quesions!

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 02/02/2014 16:51:55
Message:

Less than 5 mths. from Oct. 19. 1879 in Meråker to Trondheim April 14. 1880 can leave so many questions.
I will try to search again in Stjørdal, Meråker and Hegra after dinner.
The railroad Eidsvoll-Oslo was opened 1854 and was Norways first railroad.

Wintertime in Norway, normally Nov-March/April in this part of Norway with variations from year to year.
Lake Mjøsa is covered with ice in the wintertime so the journey from Hamar to Eidsvoll had to be on foot or by horse.

Kåre

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 02/02/2014 18:21:25
Message:

I have not found them in incoming or leaving Meråker, Øvre-Stjørdal, Øvre-Stjørdal/Meråker, Hegra.

Kåre

Reply author: cmtodd
Replied on: 03/02/2014 00:29:24
Message:

Thank you, Kåre, for all the time you have spent on this and many other aspects of the Torkildson's journey. I am profoundly grateful.

I found the opening data of the Eidsvold-Hamar railway line. It was 8 November 1880. Source: here. So that railroad section was not available to the family before they emigrated.

If Lake Mjøsa is ice-covered and not passable in winter (roughly Nov - Mar/Apr) then that option also wasn't available to them.

I can think of possible reasons for the family to return to Lier (Ole took new job or perhaps Ole's relatives got sick & they wanted to be closer). But I can think of no good reason why the family would go back to Trøndelag to emigrate. Elen's immediate family were all in America by that time, with the possible exception of one brother. I can't believe the family would take the enormous risk of traveling in winter just to visit extended relatives.They could have easily left from Olso. For example, there was a 16 Apr sailing on the S/S Angelo from Christiania to Hull with a possible connection to the S/S Montreal sailing on 22 Apr to Quebec. That is almost their exact route and time frame.

Finally, I could find no record of them coming into Lier during the relevant time (although the somewhat chaotic recording of the Lier parish events during this period makes me hesitant to place great faith in this finding).

Everything I have learned about the family thus far says that they were courageous and willing to take risks. But I don't think they were foolish. I can't imagine them risking the lives of their young children to travel twice between Nord-Trøndelag and Lier in the dead of winter without a desperate reason. And I can think of no good reason for them to do it

At this point, my hypothesis is that Ole & Elen were living in the Nord-Trøndelag area prior to emigration and that either Ole misunderstood what the Em. officer was asking or the Em. officer misunderstood Ole's response, resulting in "Lier" being listed as the residence of the family in error. Perhaps new evidence will emerge at some point to support or refute this idea.

Many thanks, Kåre!

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 03/02/2014 16:40:13
Message:

You are welcome.

Sometimes you face a brick wall in genealogy.
I also believe they em. from Nord-Trøndelag, but it was no problem to get from Hamar to Eidsvoll.
The emigration in Norway was well organized, on Hamar there were enough persons with horse and sleigh taking people to Eidsvoll to supplement their income and returned to Hamar with people going north.

The emigration law of 1869, extended in 1897:
It had to be a written contract between the emig. and the comany approved by the police.
This was to avoid criminals, persons who owe money or had not completed the military service if you were summoned to leave the country.
Ole got "Tilladelse" Permission to emigrate.

A copy Ole Torkildsens em. rec. from the police in Trondheim, his Id, serialnumber, page etc. link

The origin is kept in the archives in Trondheim
Perhaps Oles signature is on the document?
You can send a request and ask for a copy of the origin.
Service is free in Norway.

I wonder if the police asked questions if he really was coming from Lier and accepted his explonation?

Kåre

Reply author: cmtodd
Replied on: 07/02/2014 03:25:41
Message:

Sorry to take so long to send my thanks, Kåre. Had to spend a few days on other things. The information you provided on sleighs was most helpful. I found an interesting entry in a 1909 book called "The boy travellers in northern Europe." It indicated that [presumably about the time the book was written in 1909], the express trains in Norway traveled about 22-24 English miles per hour, with stops at most stations of about 20-30 minutes. Passengers could get off to eat at the stations. (p. 458)

Another passage talked about the travel time by express train from Christiania to Eidsvold (a distance of 42 English miles) being about 2 3/4 hours. (p. 462).

According to a Wikipedia entry on the Røros line that you cited earlier, it is 268 miles from Hamar to Trondheim. If the trains traveled at the same rate on this line as on the Christiania to Eidsvold line, it would take about 18 hours from Hamar to Trondheim. Probably longer if there were more stations to stop at and you had to change trains in various places.

On p. 462, it also talks about the use of sleighs before the Eidsvold-Hamar line opened.

"In winter, when the lake was frozen, sleighs were used to carry passengers between those points [Eidsvold-Hamar], a distance of about thirty miles. There was always a period - when the lake was closing and just before the ice broke up - when neither steamboats nor sleighs were available, and the wagon-roads were next to impassable."

Taken together, these passages seem to imply that Ole & family might have been able to travel by train (and sleigh) from Christiania to Trondheim within a few days. But there may be a period at the end of winter when no travel was possible.

It does seem more possible for them to have made this journey now that I know they could travel most of the way by train. Still a long journey in winter with three young children, however. And I still can't come up with a good reason why the family would do this.

Thanks so much for the information on where to get a copy of his emigration record. It will be interesting to see if it includes any additional information to help with the Lier mystery.

Hope you are having a milder winter in Norway than we are here. Just got another 8 inches (20 cm) of snow and its going to be ten degrees below zero (fahrenheit, -23 Celsius) again with strong winds. This is the 4th major snow storm of the winter & we still have another month or two of winter left. We are all looking forward to spring!

Reply author: cmtodd
Replied on: 07/02/2014 18:03:04
Message:

As I was reviewing the earlier posts to see what information I still needed to follow up on, I realized that there is another hypothesis relevant to the Lier entry on the em. report.

Kåre, when you first learned of the information in the em. report, you assumed that the Lier listed on the report was Lierne in Nord-Trøndelag. This makes a lot more sense to me at this point. I think I side-tracked the discussion away from your insightful comment by saying Ole was born in Lier, near Asker.

I searched the digital archives and found that there are no digitized church registers from Lierne for the relevant period. The only ones I could find are:
Lierne/Liern (Nordli) - 1920-1962 only (copy)
Lierne/Nordli - 1920 - 1962 only (copy)
Lierne/Sørli - 1882-1940 (official), 1904-1922 (copy) & 1923-1939 (copy)

That may explain why we haven't found any parish record of Ole's emigration in 1880. Famiysearch.org indicates this group does have microfilms records from Lierne:
--1875 Census
--1900 Census
--Bydebok for Lierne Kommune (not sure of dates),
--Probate records (1703-1815)
--Kirebøker for 1817-1923.

So the relevant church records do exist, they just aren't on digital archives yet. Who knows, perhaps these church records will provide insight into both the em. report entry and Thoralf's birth!

Please let me know if you feel the Lierne parish registers for about 1875-1882 are on digital archives and I've just missed them, or if there is another Internet source for these parish records. If they are not on the Internet, I'll try to get the microfilm through Family Search.

Many thanks for your continuing help on this journey!

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 07/02/2014 18:37:30
Message:

[quote]Originally posted by cmtodd


I searched the digital archives and found that there are no digitized church registers from Lierne for the relevant period. The only ones I could find are:
Lierne/Liern (Nordli) - 1920-1962 only (copy)
Lierne/Nordli - 1920 - 1962 only (copy)
Lierne/Sørli - 1882-1940 (official), 1904-1922 (copy) & 1923-1939 (copy)

So the relevant church records do exist, they just aren't on digital archives yet. /quote]

Here is what there is for Lierne at the digital archives. Often times parishes were part of another parish before they come into their own:
Nord-Trøndelag
Lierne / Lierne (Nordli): 1920-1962, Parish register copy
Lierne / Nordli: 1882-1902, Parish register (official)
Lierne / Sørli: 1882-1904, Parish register (official)
Lierne / Sørli: 1904-1922, Parish register copy
Lierne / Sørli: 1923-1939, Parish register copy
Snåsa / Lierne, Nordli, Sørli: 1865-1881, Parish register (official)

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 07/02/2014 19:15:14
Message:

You are welcome Chris.
My first thought when I read Lier was Lierne in Nord-Trøndelag.
Lierne is north east in Nord-Trøndelag and relatievely far from Meråker.
The church books for Lierne starts 1882 link but was established as independant parish 1871 as Nordli parish and Sørli subparish, earlier I believe Lierne was a sub parish under Snåsa
Tunnsjø chappel in Lierne was consecrated 1876.

Ole is not rec. leaving Nordli/Sørli-Lierne 1880, see right page link

Kåre

Reply author: cmtodd
Replied on: 07/02/2014 20:43:24
Message:

Thanks, jkmarler & Kåre. With all your help I'm learning a lot about Norwegian geography and parish registers! Here's what I've pulled together from the wikipedia entries you referenced & the parish register data you found:

1 Jan 1838: Snåsa established
1 Jan 1874: Eastern district, Lierne, separated from Snåsa
1 Jul 1915: Lierne divided into Nordli & Sørli
1 Jan 1964: Nordli & Sørli merged back together under Lierne name

There are four parishes potentially with records from Lierne:

Snåsa
--Snåsa church (est. 1200) - records from 1865-1881 online
Searched these--no em. in or out by Ole; no birth of Thoralf

Nordli
--Nordli Church - est. 1873
--Tunnsjø Chapel - est. 1876
(no records online from period of interest - 1875 - 1881)

Sørli
--Sørli Church, est. 1873
(no records online from period of interest - 1875-1881)

It will be interesting to see what is included in the Lierne Kirkebøkker for 1817-1923 available from Family Search.

Thanks for all your assistance.

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 07/02/2014 22:42:09
Message:

If you use the "old" version of the catalog at familysearch.org you will get a more precise listing of what date and type of records are available per film if you click on "View Film Notes".

Reply author: cmtodd
Replied on: 08/02/2014 17:52:40
Message:

Thank you, jkmarler. I didn't know that. Makes it easier to know what to order.

From the FHL file data looks like there are separate registers for Nordli & Sørli from 1817 - 1864, then there is only one register between 1865-1881, and then the Nordli & Sørli registers are separate again after that. The register for 1865-1881 covers the period of interest. Thanks!

Reply author: cmtodd
Replied on: 19/04/2014 19:50:29
Message:

I am following up on a previous post by Kåre on 30/01/2014:

Ole Torkildsen Stustad age 20 left Lier 1872, see right page #2

He was heading towards Hegra, dest. was Støren

I am having difficulty reading the handwriting for the last column of this entry which indicates where Ole is headed. Given Kåre's post, I'm guessing it reads "Støren [Trondhjem?] [???] 29/1 74.

I would appreciate knowing what the Norwegian words are. Also, am I right in assuming that the date refers to when the entry was made in the parish register?

Thank you so much!

Chris

Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 19/04/2014 20:10:24
Message:

He had gone to "Størens Præstegjeld" (Støren parish) in 1872.
Attestation (for birth and baptism) dated Jan 29 1874 were given for this purpose.

Reply author: cmtodd
Replied on: 19/04/2014 23:26:48
Message:

Thank you, Einar. I never would have guessed the second word.

I am not sure I understand the reference to birth and baptism in your statement "Attestation (for birth and baptism) dated Jan 29 1874 were given for this purpose." Did he go to Støren parish in 1872 to attend (or be a godparent) at a birth/baptism? If so, would this have been just a visit to Støren rather than a move there? Was 29 Jan 1874 the date the parish was told about this visit?

Chris

Reply author: cmtodd
Replied on: 19/05/2014 17:10:57
Message:

I am trying to resolve a name issue for Ole Torkildson's mother, Marte Haraldsdatter. In some genealogies she is listed as Marte Haraldsdatter Sandbakken. I believe this may come from the parish record for Ole's birth in Asker. There is a Sandbækken farm in Asker. (see here #216

In a previous post Kåre put a link to Marte's birth record in Lier, Buskerud County and indicated she was born on farm Sjåstadeie (see here #64
Two questions:
1) Could the "Sandbakken" entry after Marte's name on Ole's parish birth record actually indicate that Ole was born on Sandbakken farm?
2) In Marte's parish birth record it looks like she was baptised in Frogner church. I haven't been able to find a farm in Frogner named Sjåstadeie. I have found two fairly close farm names: Skjaastad and Sjåstad. Could either of those be the name of the farm Marte was born on? The handwriting is difficult to read!
Thanks for any help you all can provide!

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 19/05/2014 20:59:30
Message:

Eie is a suffix to the farm name indicating that the person was an employee of the farm and probably living in the cotter's place on that farm.

Reply author: cmtodd
Replied on: 19/05/2014 23:36:55
Message:

Thank you, jkmarler! There is so much to learn about the farm names.

Just realized I had the wrong link for the question about the farm name Sandbakken. The correct link is here, entry 216

Reply author: cmtodd
Replied on: 31/05/2015 23:22:18
Message:

Others interested in the Ole Torkildson family may be interested to know that I finally found a death record for the first Gunhilda Kristine (born 3 Sept 1879 in Meráker). The Minnesota Historical Society in St. Paul, Minnesota has microfiche of the American Lutheran Church Ministerial Records for the Minneola Lutheran Church (Goodhue, Minnesota) from 1868-1908. The following handwritten entry appeared in the "Jordfeste" section for 1880 (faint so a bit hard to read):

Ole Torkildsens [possibly Torkeldsens] Barn, Gunhild Christine - d. 29 Mai ff 5 Sept.

There were two other funerals also conducted on 5 September, probably by a traveling minister. Minneola Lutheran was a daughter church in the Holden Parish and, although it had become an independent church by 1880, funerals may still have been conducted by the Holden Church pastor, Rev. B. J. Muus, who served from 1859-1899. During his tenure he conducted 9877 baptisms, 5288 confirmations, 1268 marriages and 3909 funerals! [according to the Holden Lutheran Church website: http://holdenlutheranchurch.org].

The funeral entry does not specifically mention that Gunhilda died in Goodhue, although it appears possible. The family arrived in Quebec on 12 May 1880. It appears there were canals and a series of railroads at that time connecting Quebec and Red Wing, Minnesota which is not far from Goodhue. Minneola Lutheran Church (which still is in existence) has no record confirming that Gunhilda is buried in their cemetery. The church secretary indicated that there are several old unmarked graves, however, one of which could be hers.

How sad that one of the first things the family did in their new county was to bury their youngest child. Gunhilda's maternal grandparents, Gunhild Arnstdtr Gederaas and Kristoffer Jensen Romo, also are buried in the Minneola church cemetery and two members of our family still live nearby. So little Gunhilda probably rests with family and still has family today who will remember her. Many, many thanks for all your help in keeping her story alive.

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 01/06/2015 00:54:27
Message:

Gunhild and Kristoffer also had a sad event in Norway.

Nov. 30. 1864 they got twins, born on Gederaas, a girl named Gurina and a son Gunerius.
Gurina died same day she was born and was "Hjemmedøbt" bapt. at home and buried Dec. 16.
Gunerius died Feb. 2. 1865 9 weeks old, see #35 & 7

Kristoffer Jensen and Gunhild Arntsdatter married in Hegra June 2. 1846

Kåre

Reply author: cmtodd
Replied on: 01/06/2015 22:21:30
Message:

Thank you, Kåre. I knew the family had two sets of twins (this was the second set) but not that both members of the second set had died so young. I just found that one of the first set of twin girls (also named Gurina) was born on 29 Sep 1860 and died on 7 Jul 1861. So Kristoffer and Gunhild lost three children in a very short time. I'm sure it was a help to Ole and especially to Elen to be with Elen's parents as they grieved the loss of little Gunhilda. It must have brought back sad memories, however, for Kristoffer and Gunhild.

Reply author: cmtodd
Replied on: 02/06/2015 04:03:29
Message:

The first member of Kristoffer Jensen's family to emigrate to N. Amerika appears to be daughter Beret (b. 22 July 1849 in Hegra) in 1865 per the 1900 US Census. She marries Iver Rolfseng Iverson on 30 Oct 1868 in Wannamingo, Goodhue County, Minnesota. I have not been able to find church or police emigration records or her name on passenger lists so far.

Kristoffer Jensen (b. 13 Aug 1827) and the following family members appear on the Hegra parish emigration record for 21 Feb 1874, but I haven't found a police emigration record or their names on passenger lists:
Gunhild Arntsdtr (b. 8 Apr 1829)
Jens Kristoffersen Gederas (b. 15 Jul 1846)
Randi Oldsdtr (his wife)
Kristoffer (his son)
Kjerstin Oline (Kristoffer's d.)
Caroline (Kristoffer's d.)
Karl Gustav (Kristoffer's d.)
Probably also Peter Kristoffersen (Kirstoffer's son), who may be the missing #5 on the list.

I would appreciate any information documenting the emigration of Beret and the Kristoffer Jensen family. Thanks!

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 02/06/2015 14:45:11
Message:

Hi
They dep. Trondheim Feb. 24. 1874 on Steamship Leif via England, dest Redving link

Kåre

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 02/06/2015 15:02:16
Message:

Have you seen this Norwegian family tree

Født means born
Død means dead

Kåre

Reply author: cmtodd
Replied on: 02/06/2015 16:22:40
Message:

That's the family! Thank you Kåre. I need to work harder on my searching skills. I fear I don't think to abbreviate names as much as I should. I don't see Kjersten Oline Kristoffersdtr or Peder Kristofferson in this group. The parish emigration record does show Kjersten leaving with the family. Peder isn't listed on the parish record but there is a missing #5 and the US Census documents say he immigrated in 1974 as well. Perhaps they are elsewhere on the list. I'll try searching for them.

I had not seen the Norwegian family tree! It is most helpful. I have a bygdebog that has a lot on this family line. I have just started going through it and have found a number of errors already, based on my search of church records. It will be interesting to see how the bydgebog compares with this family tree. Thank you so much!

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 02/06/2015 17:42:19
Message:

Kjerstin (Kristine) sister-in-Law b. Feb. 14.1859 and Iver Einarsen brother-in -Law b. Jan. 8. 1863 (on farm Hastad in Hegra) on the same ship and same dest. link

Both rec. in the em. protocol for Hegra leaving in the same group with Kristoffer Jensen feb. 21. see right page #7&10

Peder born when and lastname?

Kåre

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 02/06/2015 23:44:07
Message:

Do you know the relationship between brother-in-Law Iver Einarsen Hastad and sister-in-law Kjerstin Kristoffersdatter Gederaas?

Iver was born out of wedloc, parents; Maid Mali Halvorsdatter Hovskogen and Bachelor Einar Iversen Myrtrøen, both from Hegra. Ivers mother stayed in Norway where she got married and had 4 children. Iver lived in Minnesota as Iver E. Harstad. He married a Norwegian girl and a daughter Gerthy (Gertrude) born Feb. 1900. Last time his Norwegian family heard from him, probably before 1900, he lived in Lecopal Minnesota, probably Lake Opal.

Source only in Norwegian by Arne Langås whos g.grandfather was Ivers half Brother.

Kåre

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 03/06/2015 00:11:01
Message:

Iver in 1920

Kåre

Reply author: cmtodd
Replied on: 03/06/2015 05:31:35
Message:

Kjerstin's older sister, Beret (Berith) Kristoffersdtr (b. 22 July 1849 in Norway) married Iver Iverson (b. 29 Aug 1840 in Norway) in Minnesota on 30 Oct 1868. Iver is sometimes listed as Iver R. Iverson in the U.S. records. Two family trees on Ancestry.com list him as Iver Rolfseng Iverson or Iver Iverson Rolfseng (no documentation for this). I'm guessing he traveled back to Norway to bring Beret's family to Minnesota and is the Iver Ivers. Røfseng listed on the emigraton report.

Beret emigrated to the US in 1865 (per 1900 US Census) and was Iver's second wife. According to a cemetery transcription, Iver's parents were Iver Siversen and Marie Larsdatter. I haven't been able to find a connection yet between Iver Einersen Harstad and Iver Iverson Rolfseng (or Kjerstin).

Besides the Iver Harstad you found in the 1920 census (on p. 6B), there is also a Iver E Harstad (age 62) (on p. 4B) who also lives in Appleton, MN, spouse is Meta Harstad (age 61), daughter Julia (age 32), son Gustav (age 17). This family emigrated in 1883, however, and this Iver was born in 1858, not 1864.

Here are more census entries for the Iver Harstad that you found in the 1920 census:

1910 Census entry for them in Appleton, Swift County, Minnesota:

Iver A Hastad 47
Mary Hastad 37
Clarence Hastad 11
Gertie Hastad 10
Myrtle Hastad 8
Andrew Hastad 5
Ida Hastad 3
Elmer Hastad 1
[1 3/12]

Looks like Iver has died by 1930 and Mary is still living in Appleton, MN with two of the children:

Mary Harstad 56 (widow)
Clifford Harstad 16
Lester Harstad 14

So far, I haven't found anything in the 1940 census.

The Evangelical Lutheran Church of America Records (1875-1940) provide the following (Appleton, Minnesota is about 50 miles south & east of Morris. Bellington is about 17 miles west of Appleton.)

1) Gertie Harstad born 15 Mar 1900, baptized 13 Apr 1900 in Bellingham, MN (St. Paul's Lutheran Church). Father: Iver Harstad Mother: Marie Harstad
2) Myrtle Harstad born 27 May 1902, baptized 6 Jul 1902 in Bellingham, Minnesota (St. Paul's). Father: Iver Harstad; Mother: Margit Harstad
3) Andrew Willard Harstad born 5 Nov 1904, baptized 11 Dec 1904 in Morris, Minnesota (First Lutheran Church). Father Ivee Hardstad; Mother: Marietto Harstad
4) Ida Magrethe Harstad born 15 Nov 1906, baptized 27 Jan 1907 in Morris, Minnesota (First Lutheran). Father: Iver Harstad, Mother: Magrethe Harstad
5) Elmer Leonard Harsted, born 1 Jan 1909, baptized 14 Mar 1909 in Morris, Minnesota (First Lutheran). Father: Iver Harsted, Mother: Marie Harsted
6) Gladys Lillian Harstad, born 9 Sep 1911, baptized 15 Oct 1911 in Bellingham, Minnesota (St Paul's Lutheran). Father: Iver Harstad, Mother: Margit Harstad
7) Clifford Melvin Harstad born 23 Nov 1913, baptized 11 Oct 1913 in Morris, Minnesota (First Lutheran). Father Iver Harstad, Mother: Mate Sorteberg
8) Lester Bernhard Harstad, born 23 Apr 1916, baptized 5 Mar 1916 in Morris, Minnesota (First Lutheran). Father: Iver Harstad, Mother: Margrete Sorteberg

The only information I can find on a Clarence Harstad that fits his age in the census is a confirmation record: Clarence Edward Harstad, confirmed 8 Jun 1913 at First Lutheran in Morris, Minnesota. Father: Iver Harstad.

Not positive these are the right children, but the dates and parent's names fit and the church locations aren't far from Appleton, MN.

You also asked for more information on Peter/Peder Kristofferson. He was born 21 Aug 1853 in Hegra; son of Kristoffer Jenson & Gunhild. He also emigrated in 1874 but is not on the parish emigration record and wasn't with the family on the ship manifest.

Reply author: cmtodd
Replied on: 03/06/2015 15:31:47
Message:

Iver Harstad died on 25 May 1927 in Swift County, Minnesota per Minnesota Death Index, 1908-2002 on ancestry.com.

In 1900, the family lived in Perry, Lac Qui Pari County, MN. Marriage year estimated at 1897. Iver is a grain buyer. Last name spelled as Hastad.
Iver E Hastad 37 Birthdate: Jan 1863
Margit Hastad 26 Birthdate: July 1873
Clarance Hastad 1 Birthdate: Oct 1898
Gerthy Hastad 3/12 Birthdate: Feb 1900

Minnesota Official Marriage System shows marriage:

County: HENNEPIN
Certificate #: 00720336
Marriage Date: 12/07/1896
Groom: HASTAD, IVER
Bride: SORTEBERY, MARGIT

Ancestry.com shows an Iver E Hastad being appointed U.S. Postmaster of Cerro Gordo, Lac Qui Parle, Minnesota on 30 Apr 1887.

So goes by Hastad and Harstad after coming to US.

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 03/06/2015 16:28:26
Message:

The farm Hastad was changed to Harstad in the US probably because of dif. way to pronunce the alphabet, or perhaps Harstad was used in the everyday speech (Hegra dialect).

Peder seems to have vanished, he is not recorded in the em. record from Hegra or the ship lists from Trondheim, Bergen and Oslo.

After 1867 504 persons em. from Størdal to Redwing so it must have been many reunions there.

Kåre

Reply author: cmtodd
Replied on: 03/06/2015 18:50:18
Message:

Thanks, Kåre. Peder shows up in Belle Creeke, MN in the 1880 census, so he is definitely in the US then. His arrival date in the census records is always 1874. I've never found him on any passage records either.

Red Wing would have been a common destination for people coming to southern Illinois since there was a railroad spur going there and I think it is also on a river. They probably spread out from there to other communities.

Reply author: cmtodd
Replied on: 04/06/2015 03:51:36
Message:

I found the emigration report for Peder. He was listed under Peter Romo, registering 17 Sept 1874, leaving on the Tasso (Inmann line) for Redving. So he left later than the rest of the family. It would be interesting to know why, but I doubt we will ever know.

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 05/06/2015 00:18:30
Message:

You are welcome
It looks like he traveled alone, but there were more persons from Hegra/ Stjørdal on Tasso dest. Redwing Sept. 17.
Perhaps S/S Leif was fully booked?

Of interest is the em. record from Hegra on Sept. 12. 1874

Bachelor Peter Kristoffersen Gederaas born August 21. 1853 . Headline last column; "Til Hvad Sted" To what Place. "Drømeland" (Dreamland), right page #33

On the ship list Peters occ. is "Jordarbeider" Field laborer/farmworker.

Kåre

Reply author: cmtodd
Replied on: 05/06/2015 04:38:50
Message:

How interesting, Kåre! I am sure America was a dreamland for many. Is the Tasso passenger list available online? I haven't found it yet. It would be interesting to see who else from Hegra traveled with him. It is so interesting to see how families emigrate at different times, yet often with their neighbors each time. I may be wrong, but it appears that many infants were dying just prior to when the my relatives left Norway. I'm sure young children were always dying. But it seems more were dying during this period than I've noticed before. Perhaps the period from 1865 - 1874 was an especially difficult time in Norway, leading to increased malnutrition and disease. That would certainly promote emigration.

I finally found Beret Kristoffersdatter (Peter's sister) on the passenger manifest for the Neptunus departing Trondheim on 5 May 1866 for Quebec. She was the first member of Kristoffer Jenson Romo's immediate family to emigrate to America. It looks like she traveled with her aunt's family (Kristoffer Jenson Romo's sister, Kristine Jensdatter Romo (b. 12 Aug 1831) who was married to Lorents Jensen Hastad (b. 22 Sept 1831 in Hegra). Perhaps if I follow Lorents Jensen Hastad's line it will lead to a connection to Iver Einarsen Hastad.

Thank you so much for all the information you have found! I am very grateful for all the help you have provided.

Reply author: JaneC
Replied on: 05/06/2015 18:11:55
Message:

quote:

---

Red Wing would have been a common destination for people coming to southern Illinois since there was a railroad spur going there and I think it is also on a river. They probably spread out from there to other communities.

---

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 05/06/2015 19:57:48
Message:

There was not a "big" child mortality in Hegra 1873-74, ca 10 % were children under 5-6 years.

Kristoffer Jensen Romø leased Gederaas Nov. 1. 1859.
He was a fiddler. Most likely he brougt the fiddle with him to America.

Gederaas (Geiterås) means Goat hill, another name on tha farm was Kalddalen (Cold valley)

Source; The bygdebok from Stjørdal STJØRDALSBOKA

Kåre

Reply author: cmtodd
Replied on: 06/06/2015 06:26:51
Message:

Sorry, Jane. An unfortunate typo. I meant to say Red Wing would have been a common destination for people coming to southern Minnesota. (I live in Illinois, so I suspect my fingers weren't firmly connected to my brain as I was typing.) I agree--it would be unlikely that people would travel to Red Wing in order to get to southern Illinois. My understanding is that by the late 1850's there were companies headquartered in Goodhue County (where Red Wing is located) that specialized in bringing people from Scandinavia to that area. Red Wing (the county seat) was the large city and transportation hub for the area, having access to both the river and the railroads. I had forgotten the river was the Mississippi! Once the good land was taken in Goodhue county, newly arriving families moved on to southwestern Minnesota (e.g., Lac qui Parle county) or further west to states such as South Dakota. This was the case with my family. My great grandfather, Kristoffer Jenson Romo (who arrived in 1874) farmed in Minnesota until he died. My grandfather, Ole Torkildson (married to his Kristoffer's daughter), didn't arrive in Goodhue county until 1880. He worked as a clerk for a while and, after three years, moved the family to South Dakota where he was able to homestead a large parcel of land.

Thanks, Kåre, for the infant mortality data from Hegra. That is most helpful. It is lower than I would have expected. I had recently read a book by Jon Gjerde & Carlton Qualey (Norwegians in Minnesota published in 2002 by the Minnesota Historical Society Press) that seemed to imply that conditions in Norway at this time were challenging: "No massive emigration resulted, however, until the mid-1860s when a combination of overpopulation, food shortages, mechanization, and changing market structures led to farm foreclosures. Even worse, poor crops, coupled with the disappearance of the fickle spring herring run from the Norwegian coasts, resulted in actual starvation. Infant mortality rose, and there were reports of bread made from tree bark" (p. 3).

And thank you for the bygdebok information. It looks similar to the one I got through Trønderlag of America (an organization here for descendents of emigrants from the Trønderlag region of Norway). I'm still working my way through all the information! What a resource the bydebøker (is that the plural??) are. I only wish I could read Norwegian. I find the online translators a bit lacking at times.

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 07/06/2015 21:30:04
Message:

quote:

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Originally posted by cmtodd

Iver Harstad died on 25 May 1927 in Swift County, Minnesota per Minnesota Death Index, 1908-2002 on ancestry.com.

In 1900, the family lived in Perry, Lac Qui Pari County, MN. Marriage year estimated at 1897. Iver is a grain buyer. Last name spelled as Hastad.
Iver E Hastad 37 Birthdate: Jan 1863
Margit Hastad 26 Birthdate: July 1873
Clarance Hastad 1 Birthdate: Oct 1898
Gerthy Hastad 3/12 Birthdate: Feb 1900

Minnesota Official Marriage System shows marriage:

County: HENNEPIN
Certificate #: 00720336
Marriage Date: 12/07/1896
Groom: HASTAD, IVER
Bride: SORTEBERY, MARGIT

Ancestry.com shows an Iver E Hastad being appointed U.S. Postmaster of Cerro Gordo, Lac Qui Parle, Minnesota on 30 Apr 1887.

So goes by Hastad and Harstad after coming to US.

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Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 08/06/2015 00:46:01
Message:

Good finding.

That is Ivers wife, Margit K (Knudsdatter) Sorteberg born July 1. 1873; Parents Knud Haagensen and Gunild Larsdatter Sorteberg.
Sorteberg - Black hill.

Margit had six siblings born before 1865

Kåre

Reply author: cmtodd
Replied on: 08/06/2015 06:57:01
Message:

Still looking for a connection between the Kristoffer Jensen Romo family and Iver Einarsen Hastad. Looked at the godparents listed for Iver (# 10, 8 Jan 1863 in Hegra): http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?urnread_imagesize=gigant&info=ingen&hode=nei&show=3&uid=249113&js=j

Hard to read the names. Could the name starting at the end of the second line be Lorents Jensen Hastad? If so, Kristoffer Jenson Romo's sister, Kristine Jensdr Romo (b. 12 Aug 1831, Hegra), married a Lorents Jensen Hastad (b. 23 Sept 1831, Hegra) in 1852 (per 1900 US census). Lorents and Kristine emigrated to the US in 1866 (per 1900 census).

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 08/06/2015 15:31:18
Message:

Chris your last link didn't work....

Reply author: cmtodd
Replied on: 08/06/2015 20:13:41
Message:

Sorry! This should work: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=6618&uid=ny&idx_side=-3

Also tried to determine when Iver's mother (Mali Halvorsdatter) remarried. Couldn't find a marriage record in Hegra and didn't see any out-migration for Iver's mother between Iver's birth and Iver leaving for North America (but I do have trouble reading the Norwegian names at times). Following up on one of the links Kare provided, one of Mali Halvorsdatter's children appears to be Anna T. Hoven (not sure if Hoven is part of maiden name or married name; also not sure whether Anna stayed in Norway or emigrated.)

Norway Heritage Community : http://www.norwayheritage.com/snitz/