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catherinemcgrath
Starting member

United Kingdom
8 Posts

Posted - 27/04/2020 :  22:19:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi,

Does anyone know if passenger lists denote actual arrivals or just who boarded? So, if someone disembarked at a port on the way to the main destination, how was this recorded?

Many thanks.

Catherine

Catherine McGrath

Hopkins
Norway Heritage Veteran

USA
3294 Posts

Posted - 28/04/2020 :  01:36:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This website has an article that very much answers your questions.
http://www.norwayheritage.com/emigration-records.htm
There are also other articles which cover the topic in depth here, explore and have fun!

Depending on the time period and location you might be able to find emigrant records leaving Norway AND the corresponding arrival records for immigrants arriving in the US or Canadian ports. I'm not familiar with records that may have been kept in arrival ports of other countries..

Norwegian police registering persons leaving from their ports could not know who might not survive the trip - so arrivals might not always match. And there was also the possibility that persons could change their mind when they got as far as a transfer point in the voyage.
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catherinemcgrath
Starting member

United Kingdom
8 Posts

Posted - 28/04/2020 :  09:51:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi,

Thank you so much. That it is really helpful.

Regards,

Catherine

Catherine McGrath
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catherinemcgrath
Starting member

United Kingdom
8 Posts

Posted - 28/04/2020 :  20:57:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi again,

May I run this past you please:

My 2nd great grandfather - Samuel Cooper - was a Norwegian sailor born in 1846 who married my 2nd great grandmother in London in 1870. There is no record of him in London or elsewhere in the UK prior to that. Through research, I have reason to believe that he was born in Skerjvoy in Troms in 1846 by the name of Samuel Isaksen Kurvander.

Samuel IK and Samuel Cooper were both at Liverpool docks at exactly the same time in June. Both the same age and travelling alone. BUT, Samuel IK is on a passenger schedule (now Samuel Kurvander - dropped Isaksen) to leave for Quebec on the Damascus (with an estimated journey time of 32 days) on the 24th June; and Sam Cooper is on the City of Paris departing on 22nd June headed for New York which arrived on the 25th July. But I can not find any record of the Damascus arriving in Quebec. So, my theory is that perhaps, if they are the same person, SIK was originally on the schedule to go to Quebec but for some reason the Damascus didn’t sail. So, he got on the City of Paris instead where his name was recorded as Cooper not Kurvander.

I know my Samuel regularly travelled between Liverpool and New York, as I have crew lists for him during his later seafaring career.

Are they the same person???

Many thanks.

Catherine McGrath
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catherinemcgrath
Starting member

United Kingdom
8 Posts

Posted - 28/04/2020 :  21:01:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sorry meant to say they were both in Liverpool in June 1868 (aged 22).

Catherine McGrath
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lyndal40
Norway Heritage Veteran

USA
8140 Posts

Posted - 28/04/2020 :  23:16:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So this must be the arrival of your Samuel Cooper.

Samuel Cooper
in the New York, Passenger and Crew Lists (including Castle Garden and Ellis Island), 1820-1957
Name: Samuel Cooper
Arrival Date: 25 Jul 1868
Birth Date: abt 1845
Age: 23
Gender: Male
Ethnicity/ Nationality: English
Place of Origin: England
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England and Queenstown, Ireland
Destination: United States of America
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Ship Name: City of Paris
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lyndal40
Norway Heritage Veteran

USA
8140 Posts

Posted - 28/04/2020 :  23:20:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I do find the Damascus arriving in Canada in Jul 1868. There is this person on board.

Saml Kiervander
in the Canadian Passenger Lists, 1865-1935
Name: Saml Kiervander
Gender: Male
Arrival Age: 22
Birth Year: abt 1846
Arrival Date: Jul 1868
Arrival Port: Canada
Vessel: Damascus

Number 28

[url=https://postimages.org/][/url]

Edited by - lyndal40 on 28/04/2020 23:22:29
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lyndal40
Norway Heritage Veteran

USA
8140 Posts

Posted - 28/04/2020 :  23:25:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here is a screen shot of the top part of the passenger list.

[url=https://postimages.org/][/url][url=https://postimages.org/]photo host link[/url]
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lyndal40
Norway Heritage Veteran

USA
8140 Posts

Posted - 29/04/2020 :  01:46:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here is your Samuel Isaksen Kurvander leaving from Trondheim in 1868.

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/8/pe00000000045632

Probably going to Marquette Michigan.

Probably him in 1865 Census in Hammerfest.

1865

Edited by - lyndal40 on 29/04/2020 01:53:18
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lyndal40
Norway Heritage Veteran

USA
8140 Posts

Posted - 29/04/2020 :  02:05:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Married and living in Michigan in 1900 Census

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MSMD-7S9

Living in Spokane Washington in 1910.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MGJP-FYJ

Edited by - lyndal40 on 29/04/2020 02:09:53
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lyndal40
Norway Heritage Veteran

USA
8140 Posts

Posted - 29/04/2020 :  02:11:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Died in Washington in 1913.

Samuel Isaacsen
in the Washington, Select Death Certificates, 1907-1960
Name: Samuel Isaacsen
Gender: Male
Age: 68
Estimated birth year: abt 1847
Death Date: 31 Jan 1915
Death Place: Spokane, Spokane, Washington
Father: Isaac Isaacsen
FHL Film Number: 1992326
Reference ID: 78
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran

USA
6827 Posts

Posted - 29/04/2020 :  03:09:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There are duelling family trees in Ancestry, the Nash family tree which identifies Samuel Cooper as Samuel Isaacson Kurvander and the other is Cynthia Clark's Family tree which covers the Samuel Isaacson who came to Marquette Michigan and died in Spokane but gives no parents nor firm birthplace (says Finland or Norway). In CC his birthdate is listed as 28 Oct 1847..

Is there anyway they can both be right?

Otherwise, my instinct tells me that sailors are not regularly recorded on their traverses on ships of their employ's passenger lists.

Samuel Isaacson is recorded as bødker (cooper) as he is leaving. In the 1865 census he is listed as bødkersvend, cooper journeyman or cooper's apprentice. Coopers often are on ships to take care of the goods stored in the barrels and the barrels themselves. It would make sense for him to become Samuel Cooper.


Edited by - jkmarler on 29/04/2020 03:11:07
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lyndal40
Norway Heritage Veteran

USA
8140 Posts

Posted - 29/04/2020 :  03:15:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just to do a further check to see if the Samuel Isaccsen Kurvander who left Trondheim in 1868 is the same person as
Saml Kiervander who arrived on the Damascus in Quebec in July 1868, I looked at some of the other passenger listed as leaving Trondheim at the same time as Samuel. One passenger is Elise Fredrike Østen also going to Marquette and age 21.

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/9/og00000000045631

Here is her arrival in 1868.


Elisa Osten
in the Canadian Passenger Lists, 1865-1935
Name: Elisa Osten
Gender: Female
Arrival Age: 21
Birth Year: abt 1847
Arrival Date: Jul 1868
Arrival Port: Canada
Vessel: Damascus

You can see by the screen shot she is listed next to Samuel (Saml) at number 27.

[url=https://postimages.org/][/url]


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lyndal40
Norway Heritage Veteran

USA
8140 Posts

Posted - 29/04/2020 :  03:20:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You can also see Didrik Gunders. Husby just below Saml in the screen shot above. Number 29. He is also next to Samuel Isaacsen in the passenger list of those leaving Trondheim.

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/9/og00000000045633
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lyndal40
Norway Heritage Veteran

USA
8140 Posts

Posted - 29/04/2020 :  03:53:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I notice on a tree in Ancestry.com (maybe your tree?) the marriage record. It has the name of the father of the groom. Difficult to read but I will put up the scanned image in case some of the others who post here can make out the last name of the father of Samuel.

[url=https://postimages.org/][/url]
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran

USA
6827 Posts

Posted - 29/04/2020 :  04:07:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Samuel Cooper marries in 1871 to Mathilda Martin. His age is listed as 30 years, bachelor, seafaring man, father Henry looks like Cooper and Henry is a carpenter.

This makes his birthyear about 1841.

If his birth year is 1841 and seafaring is his trade his whole life, he could have put to sea at age fifteen or about 1856 and not be recorded in 1865, 1875, censuses etc.

There are 16 Henrik of all last names and patronymics born between 1780 and 1820 whose occupation is snedker (carpenter) in 1865 census. Might be one of these or not:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/search/persons/advanced?from=&to=&jt%5B%5D=7&firstname=hendrik&lastname=&birth_year_from=1780&birth_year_to=1820&birth_date=&birth_place=&domicile=&position=snedker&event_year_from=&event_year_to=&event_date=&related_first_name=&related_last_name=&related_birth_year=&sort=rel

Edited by - jkmarler on 29/04/2020 04:36:34
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Articles for Newbies:

Hunting Passenger Lists:

An article describing how, and where, to look for passenger information about Norwegian emigrants
    1:   Emigration Records - Sources - Timeline
    2:   Canadian Records (1865-1935)
    3:   Canadian Immigration Records Database
    4:   US arrivals - Customs Passenger Lists
    5:   Port of New York Passenger Records
    6:   Norwegian Emigration Records
    7:   British outbound passenger lists
 

The Transatlantic Crossing:

An article about how the majority of emigrants would travel. It also gives some insight to the amazing development in how ships were constructed and the transportation arranged
    1:   Early Norwegian Emigrants
    2:   Steerage - Between Decks
    3:   By sail - daily life
    4:   Children of the ocean
    5:   Sailing ship provisions
    6:   Health and sickness
    7:   From sail to steam
    8:   By steamship across the ocean
    9:   The giant express steamers
 
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