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 Seeking a Tollak Tollaksen, deciphering scrawl
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran

USA
6631 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2019 :  20:24:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ToreL

At the baptisms of Tollak and Bertha's first child, there is a witness named Anne Jorine Tollaksdtr, who might be Tollak's sister. Searching for her seems to be almost as difficult as searching for Tollak himself, but I did find this note under Austrått in Høyland Bygdebok. One Orm Torsteinsen (Tostensen elsewhere) married Anne Jorine Tollaksdatter, born in Hetland on Nov. 17. 1818.

There are geographical units on various levels named Hetland, and I not sure what it refers to. So far I have found neither the baptism nor the wedding, despite the exact dates that are given. Even so, I think this find is worth holding on to. If you look at the witness lists in the two baptisms, you find a mention of Tjensvold, which in the bygdebok is given as Anne Jorine's place of residence. At the second baptism you also find Anne Jorine's husband Orm Tostensen as a witness, as well as Orm's brother Johannes, also mentioned in the bygdebok.



Death of Ane Jorgine:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NWVZ-2YF
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lyndal40
Norway Heritage Veteran

USA
7691 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2019 :  21:42:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here is a Ane Jorine born in 1820 in 1885 Census in Tjensvold Hetland, Stavanger. Called Ane Jorine Tollefsen, she is a widow

Link






Edited by - lyndal40 on 06/12/2019 03:15:53
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peder
Advanced member

USA
834 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2019 :  22:08:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
#9 seems to be

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/8761/89
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lyndal40
Norway Heritage Veteran

USA
7691 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2019 :  22:30:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
On page one I had broached the possibility that Martha Tørresdatter could have been married to both Tørre Pedersen and to Tollak Tollaksen. Not likely to be true as explained below.

Must be two Marthe Tønnesdatter. The one married to Tønnes Pedersen had several childen including one named Ane Maria in 1827.

Link

She had by my count eight children with Tønnes Pedersen starting with an Ane in 1806 and ending with Ane Maria in 1827.

The other Marthe Tønnesdatter married to Tollach Tollachsen had at least four children Jacobine 1822, Tollak 1824, Tollach Nicolai 1825 and Tønnes Lorents 1826. Third one one is discussed on page one by David.

Tønnes Lorents

#2

Confirmation in 1840 for Tønnes Tollaksen.

Link

Edited by - lyndal40 on 06/12/2019 00:02:38
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lyndal40
Norway Heritage Veteran

USA
7691 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2019 :  23:24:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Not directly related to the baptism record that we are searching for but:

On page one is the marriage of a Tollach Tollachsen to a widow Marthe Tønnesdater in 1822. Tollach birth year is 1792. Here is a likely candidate for him in the 1801 Census living in Egesud.

Father is Tollak Nielsen and mother is Sara Malene Larsdatter.

1801

brother Nils or Niels is present in both the marriage record and the 1801 Census record. And is also listed as a fadder for the baptism of Jakobine in 1822.

Marthe Tønnesdatter is likely this one in the 1801 Census.

Father is Tønnes Svendsen and mother is Berthe Karien Erichsdatter. Sister Berthe is present here and likely the Birthe Tønnesdatter found in the baptism record as fadder for Tønnes Lorent born in 1826.

1801

Edited by - lyndal40 on 05/12/2019 23:34:27
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran

USA
6631 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2019 :  01:47:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Jacobine Tollaksdatter marries:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/327/pv00000001017432
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lyndal40
Norway Heritage Veteran

USA
7691 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2019 :  02:35:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
One of the interesting side bits of your post Jackie is that her marriage is #22 in the original record and the marriage of Tallak Tallaksen posted by the OP is on the next page at #29.

#22

Interesting to compare the two transcribed records. Here is the link to Tollak.

Tollack



Edited by - lyndal40 on 06/12/2019 03:02:26
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ToreL
Senior member

Norway
306 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2019 :  16:05:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I launched an hypothesis that Anne Jorine Tollaksdatter (who was a witness at the baptism of one of Tollak and Bertha's children, and whose husband was a witness at the other baptism) might be Tollak Tollaksen's sister. It turned out her father was named Tollak Aslaksen, so this theory is out if we assume that Tollak Tollaksen's father was named Tollak Tollaksen as well. (This information is given at the wedding, is there anything else corroborating it?)

But for the record, Anne Jorine did indeed have a brother named Tollak, born July 16 1816. Top left. Anne Jorine's mother was also named Anne Jorine. The couple was married in 1802 and had children for baptism in 1803, 1804, 1806, 1808, 1810, 1813, 1816 and 1819.

An interesting detail: Tollak Aslaksen was in fact Tollak Atlaksen according to Sirdal Bygdebok. (He came from Øyestøl in Sirdal.) Perhaps the priest in Egersund got confused by this peculiar name ....

Edited by - ToreL on 06/12/2019 19:36:26
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David Wallace
Junior member

USA
72 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2019 :  21:57:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I see Anne Jorine at both baptisms. At any rate, it looks like the right family. I will update my website by 2020, to show how far this takes me. Thanks All!

DBWallace

Edited by - David Wallace on 06/12/2019 22:05:26
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran

USA
6631 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2019 :  22:53:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
And here are two children born to Tollak Atlagsen:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/255/pd00000002037928

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/279/pk00000001481806

Interesting view of the farm / parish name associated to these records as Hetland.

And here is him serving as trulovar for Kiersti Tallagsdatter:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/327/pv00000001625183

Edited by - jkmarler on 06/12/2019 22:54:44
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David Wallace
Junior member

USA
72 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2019 :  05:49:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler

... Deciphering the column immediately after their names would be of value since it asks his birthplace and residence

In Tollef Andreas' baptism record, no occupation for Tollak is named. The Tastad after his name is the name of the farm they lived.



This is about the marriage:
https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/1583/10433/54 #29

The first letter of first word in the second column is B, but the word looks like Brudgomm rather than his birthplace [ same in the entry #28]; Tasta in Frue Sogn is apparently both birthplace and residence in Stavanger consistent with the transcription and the subsequent birth records; then several unreadable words before Helvig (the known birthplace of Bertha).


DBWallace

Edited by - David Wallace on 07/12/2019 05:56:37
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David Wallace
Junior member

USA
72 Posts

Posted - 13/12/2019 :  00:44:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It seems that Tollak Tollaksen son of Tollak Tollaksen in the 1845 marriage record for Tollak and Bertha is the same person as TollachTollachsen born 1816 the son of Tollach Aslachsen and Anna Jorine Andersdatter. The question that remains is “Why does the marriage record show the father’s patronymic as Tollaksen?” Did Tollach Aslachsen die and his widow marry Tollak Tollaksen? Did Tollach Aslachsen (or Atlagsen) have some reason for using the Tollaksen patronymic?

The 1816 birth makes his age at marriage 28 not 26; Bertha’s age given as 24 would have been 22 based on her birth record.
The marriage of Orin Tostensen and Anna Jorine (Gurine) Tollagsdatter https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/15880/348 #24

I am ready to say the priest in Egersund made the error, recording Tollaksen where Aslachsen (or Atlagsen) should have been written.


DBWallace
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lyndal40
Norway Heritage Veteran

USA
7691 Posts

Posted - 13/12/2019 :  01:53:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:

The first letter of first word in the second column is B, but the word looks like Brudgomm rather than his birthplace


I would read the column as " Brudgorm født i Frue Sogn.

The same phrase for #28 reads "Brudgom fra Gløre i Liknes Sogn "

Edited by - lyndal40 on 13/12/2019 02:16:22
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David Wallace
Junior member

USA
72 Posts

Posted - 20/12/2019 :  23:07:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ToreL

I launched an hypothesis that Anne Jorine Tollaksdatter (who was a witness at the baptism of one of Tollak and Bertha's children, and whose husband was a witness at the other baptism) might be Tollak Tollaksen's sister. It turned out her father was named Tollak Aslaksen, so this theory is out if we assume that Tollak Tollaksen's father was named Tollak Tollaksen as well. (This information is given at the wedding, is there anything else corroborating it?)



No, the marriage record stands alone. Names of attendees at the two baptisms make clear that the marriage record was in error.

The Sirdal parish records for the relevant period seem to be missing. Can you share more from the bygdebok?

DBWallace
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lyndal40
Norway Heritage Veteran

USA
7691 Posts

Posted - 21/12/2019 :  03:08:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sirdal Parish Records, from the Sirdal link under Family Search.

Contains priest and sexton records from the parishes Tonstad and Øvre Sirdal (Lunde) in Sirdal clerical district. They were separated from Bakke clerical district in 1849. Bakke was in turn separated from Lund in Rogaland County in 1741. The earliest records for Sirdal will be found there.
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