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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
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jungfigh
Senior member
Malta
326 Posts |
 Posted - 02/10/2013 : 21:17:31
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Sincere thanks Jackie.
I have subscribed for a couple for a couple of days to carry out some armchair research..!
Not expensive approx $10 US. |
DL. ;o) Malta. G.C. |
Edited by - jungfigh on 02/10/2013 22:39:10 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2013 : 23:18:01
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Derek,
Why did Christian join land forces rather than naval forces when he decided to serve in WWI? Or did England draft him? If he had a strong previous maritime experience wouldn't the recruiters have tried to steer him to naval service instead? Just curious....
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jungfigh
Senior member
Malta
326 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2013 : 10:43:03
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Good morning Jackie,
I believe the answer may be within the link below. At that time the R.N. was the mightiest fleet in the world and to all intents and purposes,...fully manned.
My impression is that apart from Admiral's and senior RN officers, mostly their offspring were accepted...the future uncrowned King Edward V111 and his brother who became King by abdication...George V1 are examples albeit extreme.
At the outbreak of WW1 The British Army was very small. After the Boer War at the turn of the century soldiers were demobbed (whether they liked it or not) to save expenses. The recruiting campaign for the Army in this latest war was intense. Young officers were chosen from public schools to lead the hundreds of thousands of 'ordinary men' who were known as the PBI (Poor bloody Infantry)...'cannon fodder' which only proved to be so true. The majority of these poor souls were all volunteers. 'For King And Country'.
Then there was the fledgling R.F.C ( Royal Flying Corps) Later The R.A.F. Who also had to supply thousands of pilots and aircrew combined...again mostly from public schools.
So with that regard to Christian and taking away nothing whatsoever of his education or maritime skills I feel he was way down the pecking order for selection to the R.N. and ended up with the R(F)A on the Western front as a gunner.
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/FWWnavy.htm
Addendum to above: http://www.airwar1.org.uk/
and: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recruitment_to_the_British_Army_during_the_First_World_War |
DL. ;o) Malta. G.C. |
Edited by - jungfigh on 03/10/2013 11:04:15 |
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jungfigh
Senior member
Malta
326 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2013 : 11:27:41
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A finding from the marvellous link Jackie supplied;
A transcript from Dover Express dated Friday 06 February 1920:
RAMSGATE TRAWLER MISSING:
It is feared that another accident has happened to the Ramsgate fishing fleet. The trawler 'Campanula' last Tuesday which left for a cruise and has not been heard of since last Thursday.
It was purchased last November by the Isle of Thanet Steam Trawling Company and had previously been engaged on minesweeping and patrol at Ramsgate. There was a crew of nine.
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DL. ;o) Malta. G.C. |
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jungfigh
Senior member
Malta
326 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2013 : 11:37:05
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I appreciate this post above does not give any more information with regard Christian, but, the fact, was Campanula still on mine sweeping duties? I was always told by my family that the mine that killed the crew was trawled up whilst the trawler was fishing. Another misconception..?
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DL. ;o) Malta. G.C. |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2013 : 17:33:52
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quote:
Originally posted by jungfigh
I appreciate this post above does not give any more information with regard Christian, but, the fact, was Campanula still on mine sweeping duties? I was always told by my family that the mine that killed the crew was trawled up whilst the trawler was fishing. Another misconception..?
Your quote says:
"...another accident has happened to the Ramsgate fishing fleet".
"It (The Campanula) had previously been engaged on minesweeping and patrol at Ramsgate."
Jan Peter |
Edited by - jwiborg on 03/10/2013 17:43:40 |
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jungfigh
Senior member
Malta
326 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2013 : 09:20:52
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Correct Jan Peter.
"I must pay more attention" X 100...there I've given myself 100 lines..!
Onlyexcuse for that fooh-pah was that I was a bit 'bog-eyed' after a long computer session. |
DL. ;o) Malta. G.C. |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2013 : 17:45:15
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quote:
Originally posted by jungfigh
Correct Jan Peter.
"I must pay more attention" X 100...there I've given myself 100 lines..!
Onlyexcuse for that fooh-pah was that I was a bit 'bog-eyed' after a long computer session.
No worries. 
Jan Peter |
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jungfigh
Senior member
Malta
326 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2013 : 18:31:02
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| To-day I have spent more than two hours telephoning various departments in the UK whom I believed could help in my quest with regard Christian...Results...Nil..! |
DL. ;o) Malta. G.C. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2013 : 18:32:18
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Derek, Thanks for information about the recruitment during WWI in Britain. But, unless you were drafted and couldn't avoid it, wouldn't most men with 7 children & wife to support try not be in a spot where they might die? Even artillery men can be killed.
Strangely ironic that he survived the war & died after the war by left over weapons from the war.
As to the fully manned status of the Royal Navy, that is quite interesting. I figured not taking in someone with maritime experience into the Navy sounded like a "snafu", situation normal all fouled up. |
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jungfigh
Senior member
Malta
326 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2013 : 10:26:56
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Jackie,
The article below is rather lengthy but very poignant. I believe that through these tragic deaths The British War Office decreed that not all the Son's of one family could fight in the front-line during later conflicts. I believe the USA had a similar diktat. The film Saving Private Ryan reflects that.
As we know things were very different In theatres of war then. 'For King and Country' and 'Your Country Needs You' were two of the best recruiting posters during WW1 Britain attracting over a million combatants. Then there was Patriotism which has come down the line to to-day. In W.W.1 it was a fierce Patriotism. This was also the time of the white feathers. Many young Men who weren't in uniform were given these, usually by women. The white feather signified cowardice, even though the Men were serving but in mufti. I believe not many young men wanted to receive the 'badge of Cowardice'...which also spurred them on to enlist.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2060179/Armistice-Day-2011-The-mother-lost-sons-WW1.html |
DL. ;o) Malta. G.C. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2013 : 16:41:39
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Wars do unleash all sorts of unholiness...The ironic thing about the "Sullivan" law in US and elsewhere illustrated in Saving Private Ryan is that many families had only one son to lose in service and did. Numbers don't signify the loss only the absurdity.
Thanks for the explanation about the "white feather." As a genealogist, my curiosity always bends to what motivates action to find clarity. |
Edited by - jkmarler on 05/10/2013 16:50:38 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2013 : 23:40:35
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| In the online marriage index for Britain there was a Sophie C. H. Tromm who married a Carl O. M. Pflug in Dover, Kent about Oct 1912. Is she worth pursuing? |
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David Yaw
Medium member
United Kingdom
128 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2013 : 12:55:33
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quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
In the online marriage index for Britain there was a Sophie C. H. Tromm who married a Carl O. M. Pflug in Dover, Kent about Oct 1912. Is she worth pursuing?
Can't find any other reference to a Carl Pflug nor a Sophie Tromm in any other UK birth, marriage, death indices.
There is a marriage record for Marie Anna Tromm in Bradford, Yorkshire in 1890. Two possible matches for her husband, most likely Thomas Marshall. If correct, 1891 census states she was born in Prussia
The surname Pflug appears in the records several times, typically with a "German" forename, and indeed perusal of the later censuses up to 1911 usually indicates German birth or origin. It was quite common before WW1 to find German nationals living in UK, often associated with the catering trade, and indeed there is a long-established German church and school here in London.
From about 1911, the UK birth indices started to give the mother's maiden name as well as the father's surname. There are several records for Pflug births, marriages and deaths right up to the present day - but alas no records for Pflug children born to a mother surname Tromm.
None of this means we should "disregard" her. Both surnames are unusual for Anglophile officials so there could be mis-transcriptions resulting in us not finding them in earlier or later records. They may not have had children - and/or they could have returned to Germany or simply gone elsewhere.
Oddly enough, the 1911 UK census has a Karl Pflug widower b Germany ca 1861 and a Sophie Pflug widow b Germany ca 1864 both living with & working in Westminster, London for Hermann Appenrodt, catering merchant b Germany ca 1867. Probably just coincidence - but no record for a later death of Carl or Sophie in UK records.
Another unusual one - there is a Swen Tromm listed in the electoral roll for Paddington area of London from 2003
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Christain Tromm
