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 Origin of Grung family in Bergen
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Karen Olsen
Starting member

Australia
29 Posts

Posted - 23/09/2009 :  05:29:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My grandmother, Jenny Marie Grung was born in Bergen in 1856. I have been able to trace her line back to Frantz/Frans Diderich/Didrich Grung, born about 1701, using the National Archives. I cannot find information for his birth. He married Giertke Hansdatter Bildoe, a local girl, in 1724 in Bergen. They had 9 children in Bergen and for all baptisms Frantz is recorded as a Grung. His descendants (mostly in Bergen) make up the majority of Grungs in the database. However in the record of his death at age 43 in 1744 he is down as a Grundt. I have checked digital copies of the original records and the spelling is as recorded. My question is where could he have come from and how do I find out? I have thought of 2 possibilities. Could he have come from Grong in Sor-Trondelag? At the time he probably came to Bergen (early 1700s), according to Rygh's farm names, Grong could have been spelled as Grung. His first names are not very typical and with the spelling Grundt on his death notice, could he be a German/Prussian/Dane immigrant? Any suggestions/help, please!

Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran

Norway
5861 Posts

Posted - 23/09/2009 :  15:23:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I doubt Frantz Didrich Grung has any connetction to Grong municipality in Nord-Trøndelag County, Grung is an old familyname.
From the marriage record from 1724 you will see both his name and his wife Gierche Bildøe were undelined, they belonged to the middle-class, see right page 7-8 line from bottom here

In 1729 he was a "Consuptionsbetient" in Bergen town, an old name for a Customs officer, see about one inch from bottom here

Kåre

Edited by - Kåarto on 23/09/2009 16:08:39
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran

Norway
5861 Posts

Posted - 23/09/2009 :  21:19:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
LDS records has various dates for when Frantz Didrich was born, 1692-1701.

Traditional naming could have been used when Frantz Didrich was baptised, but since we dont know his fathers given name its difficult to know.
We dont know if the Grung name is coming from his father or mother.

The origin of both Frantz and Didrich sounds German to me.

Kåre
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Karen Olsen
Starting member

Australia
29 Posts

Posted - 24/09/2009 :  12:47:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank you so much for your help, Kåre. I have learn some more about him. It seems that his origin is more likely to be German then, because of his names but could that go back a few or several generations if Grung is an old family name?
Karen.
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran

Norway
5861 Posts

Posted - 24/09/2009 :  17:54:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi.
Difficult to say.
According traditional naming in Norway the 1. born son was named after his fathers father, 2. oldest son after his mothers father.

I have seen Grung spelled Grundt, Gryng and Gryn.

In 1727 Frantz Grung was a "farer for kjøpmann" Kjøpmann is merchant, "farer for" is an old expression unknown to me, see 5. Frantz from top here

In 1727 he paid 0.3 Riksdaler in tax, in 1729 one Riksdaler and 1730 one Riksdaler.

Kåre

Edited by - Kåarto on 24/09/2009 17:58:14
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran

Norway
5861 Posts

Posted - 24/09/2009 :  19:00:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I cant confirm this information, but it seems honest to me.

Gierche Bildøe was from Bildøe, todays Bildøy, a island outside Bergen.

She was born Gierche Hansdatter born to Hans Andersen Bildøe and Gierche Ellertsdatter Garboe, see here
The person here ask the same questions as you, when was Frantz born, where does the Grung name came from.
He is supposed to be born 1692 (1701?), he died 1744 in Sandviken in Bergen
He married Gierche Hansdatter Bildøe, daughter to Hans Andersen Bildøe.

Hans Andersen was according this topic married to Gierche Ellertsdatter Garboe, they also had a daughter Marthe, see about one inch up here

Edited by - Kåarto on 25/09/2009 00:35:05
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Karen Olsen
Starting member

Australia
29 Posts

Posted - 25/09/2009 :  13:25:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank you for even more information on the family. It is good to see that someone else found his origin a mystery! I have also found Grung spelled as Grunk and Grunch.

I could not find any birth/baptism records for Bergen around the time when Gierche Hansdatter was born (about 1698 - she was recorded as 46 years old when she died in 1744) so it is very good to have her parents names and a sister too. Could the records for Bildøe be under another municipality?

Thank you again for your help,
Karen.
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran

Norway
5861 Posts

Posted - 26/09/2009 :  00:13:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi,
Bildøe is a part of Fjell municipality located between the two islands Store (Big) Sotra and Litle (Little) Sotra west from Bergen in the sound left from the letter L in "Laksevåg in this map

For a better overview see the red spot here,

The church books for Fjell starts about 1717

The church where Hans Andersen was christened was located to Fjell parish , the old church from about 1600 was demolished when a new church was opened 1874, earlier an old stave- church form the middleage was standing there, the only left from this is the Altarpiece from 1400, the picture in the middle of the Eucharist is from 1872.

The only photos I could find from Bildøe is 5 photos in connection to Bildøy summerhotel

I can try to look for Gierche tomorrow.

Kåre


Edited by - Kåarto on 26/09/2009 00:17:52
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran

Norway
6495 Posts

Posted - 26/09/2009 :  07:23:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
In 1727 Frantz Grung was a "farer for kjøpmann" Kjøpmann is merchant, "farer for" is an old expression unknown to me
- how about a simple understanding of "farer for kjøpmann 1727" = in 1727 he travels for a merchant.

Einar
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Karen Olsen
Starting member

Australia
29 Posts

Posted - 26/09/2009 :  16:59:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi,
Bildøy looks interesting and inviting. It is very close to Bergen. I would like to visit Norway in a few years to see the places where my ancestors lived. Bildøy is now on the list!

I had a look in the National Archives and could not find records early enough for Gerche in Fjell. That is not surprising if the Church books only started in 1717.
Thank you for more insight. Thank you Einar for the translation.

Karen.
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran

Norway
5861 Posts

Posted - 27/09/2009 :  00:47:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Anders Hansen Bildøen was most likely Hans Andsersn Bildøens father in the 1701 census for Sunds (former name for Fjell), he was a "Lensmann" Sheriff on Bildøe, he died 1718 age 88.

Place of living and occupaction was "ops" (Oppsitter) farmer on the "LenzMandzgaaerd" (The sheriff´s recidence) in Sund, two "tjener" servants;
Ingebrigt 28 and Jens 22, see here.

The reason neither the girls ot the women are mentioned is:
The outhorities (the king) was only interested in young boys and men (potential soldiers and tax-payers), a womam was only mentioned by name if she owned a farm (tax payer) as a widow or inheritance after her parents until she married or/if the oldset son takes over the farm or when she was buried mentioned nameless as the farmers "quinde" woman.

The reason we know Anders Hansen Bildøe was a "Bunde Lensmann" (District Sheriff) on Bildøe can be found her in the protocols from the local meetings of juridical importance from 1699-1701 Nord Hordaland Tingbok (including Bildøe and Bergen).

About 1/2 a inch down heading 1699: 8b, April 18., 1699: 9b, April 18 and 1699:10b.
The first is a judicial assembly where he is mentioned as "Bunde Lensman Anders Bildøe", the two next is in two court cases as Bunde Lensmand Ander Bildøe and Lensmand Anders Bildøe.

March 32. 1666 and spring 1670 Anders Bildøe was "Lagrettemann" member of the local court on Sartor skiprede (Sotra military district) kept on Bildøe lead by the Bailiff.

Not easy to find, see here

Visiting Bergen (The town between the seven mountains) ; Dont forget the umbrella (joking), but its often raining there.

Kåre

Edited by - Kåarto on 27/09/2009 10:57:54
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Karen Olsen
Starting member

Australia
29 Posts

Posted - 28/09/2009 :  13:41:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Kåre,
now knowing Gierche's father's name I did more searches. I found Marthe's birth in 1705 and a brother, Hindrich, 1701 in Bergen. The mother is given as Gircke Eilersdtr/Garboe which is close enough to what you found. Hans Andersen, her father, died in Bergen in 1707. In the Dombok for Bergen 1701 and 1703, he (Hans Andersen Bildøe/r) is recorded as a "Saksøkjar " - plaintiff? Please, are you able to have a look at the web books for me? I don't want a translation, I am just interested in roughly what the cases were about.
Dombok1701
Dombok1703
Thank you for information on Hans' father, Anders. I sometimes forget how far back in history this is because the events are often so well documented. It was a different time! It can be difficult finding the information in all the records. I did find the references... after you showed me where to look! It is so good to have more than just names and places.
Karen.
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran

Norway
5861 Posts

Posted - 28/09/2009 :  16:26:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi, you are a great finder.
I agree, information about a person is more interesting than only a name, you are happy to have all this information available..

Wish I could read this letters better, total 8 pages, but I am not sure what was the reason for the two courtcases.

It´s the Judgement protocols from Bergen, temporary from this I read (could be I am on thin ice).

Hans Andersen is titled "Vellagte" Respected man and Johanne Paul Broches is titled "Gudfryktige" Devoted Matrone.

Hans Andersen Bildøen as a "Saksøker" means he sued Jacob Butt in 1700 and Johanne Doe Paul Broches in 1703.

Page 346b.
Paul Butt was judged to pay Hans Andersen Lindøen 24 Riksdaler 3q and 10 s within 15 days.
Paul Butt left Bergen for Lillesand in Vest-Agder County in 1701.

Page 433.
Sentence of the judgement:
Johanne Broches was judged to pay 10 Riksdaler within 15 days.

I have some information from his probate 1707 and on Sheriff Anders Bidløen for you later today.

I have seen more information on Hans Andersen Bildøen, the links has an error, but it says he died unexpected and suddenly in 1707.

Kåre

Edited by - Kåarto on 28/09/2009 22:25:56
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran

Norway
5861 Posts

Posted - 28/09/2009 :  20:58:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hans Andersen Bildøen´s probateregister from 1707.

From this familytree from 2007 I read Gierche Ellertsdatter Gaboe was widowed 2 times.
The information don´t correspond with the information we have, see person 290 David Middelton.

A summary
290 David Middleton mentioned 1657, dead between 1670-1707.
March 1707, probate register for Hans Andersen Bildøen kept. in the archives in Bergen, it mentioned that he owe "faderarv" inheritance after the father to blessed David Middeltons daughter Elisabeth.
It was a Nathanel Middelton from Durham in England, he became a citizen of Bergen June 5. 1694.

He is supposed to have been married to Gierche Ellertsdatter Garboe, widowed after Hans Davidsen. Nathanel and Giersche had a daughter Anne Kristine Middelton married 1721 to Henrik Garboe Bildøen, Hans Andersen Bildøens son.
David Middelton married unknown mentioned as David Mideltons "quinde" woman. When she was buried Feb. 23. 1670 the big bells rang from the church.

Difficult to sort this out, confusing but interesting, perhaps I don´t I see the trees because of the forest (Norwegian saying)

Kåre
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran

Norway
5861 Posts

Posted - 28/09/2009 :  22:28:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
"Lensmand" Anders Bildøen.

Bildøen church 1690.
The Diskos and the Goblet was stolen from the church.

1698 a new Goblet and a Diskus on 27 Lodd in silver (weight of 432 gram, about one pound) was given to the church by Anders Bildøen and "2de børn" (2. child or two children), see about 1 and a half inch down here, starts with..., "men i 1698 ble en ny kalk og disk som veide 27 Lodd...."

Kåre

Edited by - Kåarto on 28/09/2009 22:33:14
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Karen Olsen
Starting member

Australia
29 Posts

Posted - 30/09/2009 :  14:52:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Kåre
Thank you so much for that detailed information. I will certainly use it. I have a fairly good basic family tree and now I want to write it up with the extra information with the background history as a story for my family. It will be interesting! I can’t believe that people were being sued through the courts in 1700 and he did it more than once!

That tree information is confusing. It does sound like Hans Andersen must have been Gierche’s 3rd husband and their son (Henrich Garboe Bildøe) married her daughter from her previous marriage with Nathanel? Hans and Gierche did have a son, Hindrich, born 1701 so that fits. Was that possible at that time? They had the same mother. David Middleton does not seem to be related. The connection is the debt Hans owed his daughter?

The Anders/Hans Bildøe family did have money (buying those objects for the church) which agrees with your earlier information that Gierche Hansdatter Bildoe came from a middle class family. 1698 was about the time Gierche Hansdatter was born. Could the "2de børn" have been Anders' grandaughter, Giertche?

In the Archives database it records Hans Andersen Bildøen as being buried (I think) at/in "i Vaabenhuusdørren med alle kl. og l.p." Is this a military place? Does it tell us anything about him?

Thank you!
Karen.




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