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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
 Posted - 30/09/2009 : 19:26:56
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Hi Karen
It could be she was Hans Andersen stepdaughter from Gierche Ellertsdatter marriage to David Middelton if the age or date correspond.
From that I read (uncertain) that Hans Andersen could have been widow Gierches 3. husband.
Could be some unintentional misunderstandings here.
Diffuicult to know who the 2de child was.
It will be confirmed one day, more and more information will be available online.
The courts had enoug to work with in the old times too.
The noble familes priviledges in Norway were divested by the law in 1821.
Many cases were acting about inheritance, insulting a persons honour, manslaughter (sued by the victoms family and judged to pay compensation). The church had much power but the king was absolute monarch so he made the laws to look after his own interests.
My ancestor Jon Bjørnsen b. a. 1651 was sued 1674 when he and Bent Shoemaker was chewing tobaco in Efteløt church (eastern Norway) after the song in an evening ceremony.
The Bailff sued them and wanted to impose them both for "8 ørtug and 4 merker sølv" an old measurment, sølv means silver.
They both complained what they had done and told they did not know it was forbidden chewing tobaco.
The court held at the church redused the penalty and judged them to pay 7 Riksdaler each.
From about 900 AD we still have the Gulating, Frostating and Borgarting
Vaabehuusdøren:
Vaaben means weapon, huus mean house and dørren mean door.
Today it´s spelled "Våpenhus", it was a room in front of the entry to the church where every man had to place his weapons before he entered the church.
This must be your family?
Frantz Dirich Grung got a son Frantz Didrich Frantzen also known as Frantz Didrich Grung born 1733.
The forefather to this familyline?
Kåre
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Edited by - Kåarto on 01/10/2009 10:31:21 |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2009 : 08:58:27
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Hi.
From LDS records and a private family tree (could not be opened).
Ellert Garboe born about 1645 in Bergen buried April 20. 1711 in Bergen married Kristine Gewerdt/Kristine Henrichsdatter Gievers, they got many children, three daughters mentioned Gierche, Anne and Giedche.
Ellert owned a house in Bergen called "Warner Ross house" named after Warner Ross mentioned in "Grunnbok for Bergen 1786", page 24 (Id 359), a register for taxation of properties, the tax was 12 ss each year from 1786-96.
5. person from bottom here
86-96 Ellert Garboe´s "Warner Ross" huus og grund, gifuer aarlig ...16ss.
Ellert Garboes Warner Ross house and ground gives yearly....16 ss (skilling?).
One Speisdaler (120 Skilling) weight 30 Gram, contained the value of 87,5 % silver.
Kåre |
Edited by - Kåarto on 01/10/2009 10:26:51 |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2009 : 09:46:56
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More information to work with (not confirmed)
Kristine Gievers/Gewerdt was according this information born to Henrich Jochumsen Gewerdt and unknown mother, occup. Skipper.
The forefather to the Giever family in Norway is suppsed to be Jochum Gewerdt born in Førde in Sogn&Fjordane County ca. 1579, he married about 1622 Anna Simonsdatter,
see here.
He settled down in Sandviken in Bergen as a miller.
A book, 48 pages, published 1937, kept in Bergen museum act about the Gewerdt family and the mills at Bergen.
Enter Fritekst, write Gewerdt and press Søk.
Kåre |
Edited by - Kåarto on 01/10/2009 10:59:09 |
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Karen Olsen
Starting member
Australia
29 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2009 : 16:01:33
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Wow, Kåre, I did not think that I would have my ancestors traced that far back and with information of what they did too. Ellert would be Giertche Hansdatter’s grandfather! The Gievers go back into the 1500s. This is awesome! The family information is from the digital archives and Family Search so it could be reliable. Thank you also for the link for the book.
I read about the Gulating, Frostating and Borgarting. There was a well organised judicial system from way back. Seems it could be very expensive to be sued and for little reason. It was very "civilised"!
Yes, Frans Didrich Grung (b1733), one of the 9 children of Frans Didrich Grung (b1701) and Gierche Hansdatter Bildøe, was my ancestor. He had 7 children and I am descendant from his son Jacob Olaj (b1769) who had 8 children! This was a line of ropemakers. It is a different to the one on that site but all go back to Frans and Gierche. My great grandfather, Johan Georg Grung (b1828), had 10 children but all those that married and had children left Norway so I have no close relatives from this line in Norway. They live all over the world!
Thank you for answering my many questions!
Karen.
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2009 : 20:49:59
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You are welcome Karen.
Even in the viking-age the laws were "civilised"
If a person was sued/taken to the court he was judged by the law-men on the "ting".
Both parts had to accept the judgement and the judged had pay the penalty , the insulted/opposite side/enemy was forced to accept it even it was acting about manslaughter.
The person who broke this treatment could be outlawed on the next "Ting".
Have you seen this.
It´s a photo of an old grocery in Verholmen in Lavik owned after 1758 by by Jens Frantz Grung 1736-85 from Bergen married to Pernille .
They had three children, Frantz, Didrich and Maren.
He got permission to run the grocery for a yearly fee to the king of 2 Riksdaler.
He was allowed to sell food and spirits to travelers for a fair price, but was not allowed to destil shnaps.
In 1801 Pernille still lived, her daughter Maren and son in law Sjur Eriksen run the grocery to 1821.
Another Grung was the painter Frantz Bøe, christened Frantz Didrich Bøe, born March 28.1820 in Bergen died in Bergen 1891, born to Abraham Felthus Bøe and Lydia Bertentine Grung 1794-1847.
He was educated in France and Denmark and was a wellknown painter in USA and England.
Most of the motives in his paintings, like this, was from the nature, some of them are kept in "Nasjonalgalleriet" in Oslo.
Information only in Norwegian, here.
30 of his paintings at "Baroniet Rosendal" Rosendal manor, named Stilleben includes two phostos of Frantz Bøe.
It has been very intersting to work with this family Karen, this is what I was able to find at present.
If you have any questions you are welcome back here.
Kåre
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Edited by - Kåarto on 03/10/2009 11:01:20 |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2009 : 09:07:23
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Hi.
Forgot the information about the Grain-mills owned by the Gewerdt family.
i 1769 the family sold all three water-mills to the Hagelsteenfamily, see page 7 in the link further down.
The mills were located by the river "Muleelven" coming from a valley called "Skredderdalen" Tailor- valley.
On page 9 here is a drawing showing how the Gewerdt-mills might have looked.
Kåre |
Edited by - Kåarto on 03/10/2009 09:10:36 |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2009 : 14:05:00
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Information about the Grung family as ropemakers is mentioned here, Repslageriene (Ropewalks)
Further down, see photo, shows where "Grungbanen i Repslagergaten 11-19 and 23", the first Ropwalk in Bergen build 1761 by the Grungfamily in Repslagergaten (Ropemakerstreet) 11-19.
Next photo shows "Ladegårdsgaten 54A"
Ladegårdstreet 54A were the tar-house for the Grung Ropewalk was. Here the ropes were impregnated with tar.
The ropemakers was rather wealthy.
Kåre |
Edited by - Kåarto on 03/10/2009 14:57:17 |
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Karen Olsen
Starting member
Australia
29 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2009 : 12:38:19
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Hi Kåre, this is interesting!
At least 3 generations of Grung ropemakers lived at 2-28 Sandviken, starting with Frans Didrich (1733-1777) so he was probably involved in establishing the business in Sandviken. His brother, Jens (1736-1785) who married Pernille, evidently became a merchant/shop keeper. It is so good to see photos of the places they lived. The Grungs seem to have done well back then. I had a look on the web and there seem to be several Grungs that did/are doing well in Bergen or were/are from Bergen, including the painter you mentioned.
One of the Grung children was given a second name of “Hagelsteen” in 1827, for no apparent reason. Maybe it was because of the connection with the family that bought the mill in 1769.
When I started this search with my family, we had only the names of my father’s parents, one of his grandfathers and one aunt and uncle so you can see why I am so impressed by how far back we have gone and how much more we understand now!
Thank you again for your help.
Karen.
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Origin of Grung family in Bergen
