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carraj
Medium member
USA
107 Posts |
 Posted - 15/09/2011 : 20:36:10
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This is probably not enough information, but I've hit the wall so seeking assistance ...
Martin Satre (Satra, Sathre, Sather, Setre) (Suspect possibly
Sættre, Sætre, Sæther in Norway)
Emigrated to North Dakota in 1883, possibly with wife.
Wife's name may be Birta Velten, born in Norway (not sure abt this)
Children: Mike, Annie, Olaf, Almer, so those names may be in family.
Exhausted all efforts in Digitalarkivet, think I may need a course ... anyone know if there is such a thing?
Any pointers or clues would be greatly appreciated ...
Carra Johnson Callies |
Carra Johnson |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 15/09/2011 : 20:53:02
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Hi,
What sorts of records have you searched (besides the 1900 census) here?
Here are 2 Martin Satre from the ND Naturalization index online, either or neither your guy?
Satre Martin 2nd June 3, 1890 Cavalier F-12 118
Satre Martin O Norway 1st October 8, 1883 Walsh D-2 055
Here is a Martin O. Satre's cash sale and homestead entry at the BLM site:
Image Accession Names Date Doc # State Meridian Twp - Rng Aliquots Sec. # County
--- NDMTAA 116417 SATRE, MARTIN O 12/12/1888 9887 ND 5th PM 160N - 058W SE¼ 36 Cavalier
--- NDMTAA 116595 SATRE, MARTIN O 7/20/1891 2718 ND 5th PM 163N - 058W W½NE¼ 27 Cavalier
163N - 058W SE¼NE¼ 27 Cavalier
163N - 058W NE¼SE¼ 27 Cavalier
With the O initial I wonder if he is the Martin Olson (age is a bit wonky given as 24 rather than expected 34) in Walsh County in the 1885 Dakota Territorial census transcription online?
Jackie M. |
Edited by - jkmarler on 15/09/2011 22:01:25 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 15/09/2011 : 22:59:51
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Hi,
Just surveying the census indexes and Velten appears to be attached to more Germans than Norwegians. Velt (as the beginning of a farm name in Norway with en, in, un, a as suffixes) is fairly rare, maybe a handful of parishes. So if they were married and came together to US you might be able to figure out which parish from that. But I see (if Martin Satre in Cavalier County is the right man) she died before 1900.
And there is a Martin Velten b. Norway in the 1880 census at Silver Lake, Iowa. Maybe Velten was his name, too at some time???
Jackie M. |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 15/09/2011 : 23:06:20
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Hi,
in 1865 there were Velten farms in following municipalities:
Grue
Østre Slidre
Nes
Tinn
and
Støren
Kåre |
Edited by - Kåarto on 15/09/2011 23:10:06 |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 15/09/2011 : 23:10:57
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One Martin Olsen on farm Sætermyr in Søndre Odalen, Hedmark, census-1865.
He is born 28 Jun 1852
There is also a farm Vælta in the same area. Vælta is local dialect, and could be spelled Velten in standard Norwegian.
Jan Peter |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 16/09/2011 : 00:11:56
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More Martin Sætre info here
Kåre |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 16/09/2011 : 00:32:55
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Hi,
Because of the clue in that post about the misrendering of Martin's name, looked again, here's what there is in 1885 Dakota Territory transcription online:
Name Age Relation Occupation Nativity Address City ED County
Satre, Norlin 34 Farmer Norway 37-038-28 Cavalier
Satre, Birtha 26 Wife Norway 37-038-29 Cavalier
Satre, Olaf 4 Son Norway 37-038-30 Cavalier
So it looks like they were a family before they took off from Norway.
Jackie |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 16/09/2011 : 00:56:13
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Children in census-1900:
Mike, born May 1883, North Dakota
Annie, born May 1885, North Dakota
Olaf, born May 1887, North Dakota
Almer, born Sep 1888, North Dakota
Olaf is here listed as born 1887. A different Olaf? And where is "Mike" in census-1885?
The other topic linked above list Martin as entering Philadelphia.
Here is a possibility:
Martin Olsen
Born 1852
Ship: SS British Crown
Arrival: 10 MAY 1881
Source: Philadelphia Passenger Lists, 1800-1945
Leaving Oslo
Jan Peter
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
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carraj
Medium member
USA
107 Posts |
Posted - 16/09/2011 : 02:53:52
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Wow, wealth of information that you folks come up with and the generousity of spirit never ceases to amaze me!
I'll start on these leads immediately ...
Jackie -
Waters couldn't get much muddier than this one! I'm ashamed to say I didn't think of the BLM records! Martin's middle name was Olaf, didn't realize that I left that out, apologies.
- Yes, Martin's wife had died before the 1900 Census. But all the children are listed in each census as born in North Dakota, so unless oldest Mike's true birthplace was not conveyed during each census-taking, the four children were born from 1883 to 1889. Martin's wife died between 1889 and 1900, and likely toward the 1889 end as the children all spoke of being "very young", including Olaf, who was 13 in the 1900 Census and unlikely to have thought of himself as "very young" at that point.
- 1885 Dakota Territory transcription is where I picked up Birtha/Birta a second time so included it as a possibility. BUT, my Olaf definitely born in 1887 so could not have been the Olaf listed UNLESS he was the oldest child, a FIRST Olaf, who died before 1900 Census. Possible, and Martin is the right age, he would have been 34 in 1885. However, none of the children heard about an older brother who died. May not be surprising since oldest Mike would have been only 2 years old in 1885, and might not remember up until 3 or 4.
- AND still leaves the question of where was Mike in 1885 Census. Seems plausible that they could have called him Olaf at first after his father's middle name. Haven't yet found his name as "Michael Olaf" or "Olaf Michael" so still up in the air there also. Seems unlikely that a 2-year old would be taken for a 4-year old, but if he was stretching right on 3 he might have looked like 4 ... they are big tall folks.
Kåre - thanks very much for the Velten farm links and further link on Martin, I'll follow through on them!
Jan - thanks for the information on other "possibles" ... can't afford to rule anything out! And I hadn't found the Sætermyr farm.
- Olaf, born May 31, 1887, is my neighbor, so he and the siblings Mike, Annie, and Almer (who later become "Elmer") are facts I'm sure of.
- By the 1910 Census the 3 boys are living by themselves, still in the same place as 1900, in Hope, N. Dakota., Annie would have been 25 by then and likely married.
- Father Martin remarried at some point, and it may have been around that time and moved out. (Still pursuing this part.)
Thank you all again for the good pointers ... I'm off to follow up on them now, will report back! Carra |
Carra Johnson |
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carraj
Medium member
USA
107 Posts |
Posted - 16/09/2011 : 03:38:03
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1885 ND Territory database that shows additional detail:
37-038-28 Satre, Norlin 34 Farmer Norway Cavalier
37-038-29 Satre, Birtha 26 Wife Norway Cavalier
37-038-30 Satre, Olaf 4 Son Norway Cavalier
37-038-31 Satre, Mike 2 Son Dakota Cavalier
37-038-32 Satre, Bertha 8/12 Daughter Dakota Cavalier
Now we've got Mike, who IS the right age for 1885, and a new name for girl who is the right age to be "Annie" born in 1885 ... name could be "Bertha Anne" or "Anne Bertha"
Onward and upward ... Carra |
Carra Johnson |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
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carraj
Medium member
USA
107 Posts |
Posted - 16/09/2011 : 04:40:27
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THANK YOU JACKIE!! Two big pieces to the puzzle!! Appreciate it so much!!
Having Bertia's birthdate is so helpful! Guess I should have searched a little broader on this side of the water and other family members, was concentrating too heavily on Martin's emigration and the Norway family ...
I'm betting that Karen was Martin's sister ... older than he is by 5 years and I wouldn't think that they would put a brother's/cousin's wife on the same headstone, which seems the only other way Karen would logically have the Sætre name. |
Carra Johnson |
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carraj
Medium member
USA
107 Posts |
Posted - 16/09/2011 : 05:22:52
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Something isn't adding up here -- Olaf #1 died May 6, 1988. Olaf #2 born May 31, 1887. Families didn't give children the same name as an older sibling until AFTER the child died, right?
Could be that the death date on the headstone is incorrect for Olaf #1 ... headstone was put up many, many years later. Anything else that could explain this except if I've got two families pieced together who don't belong together? I'm thinking along those lines ...
It's astounding how many Olaf and Martin Satra, Sathre, Sather, Setre there are!! And how many of them have weirdly similar event dates and sibling/children names. |
Carra Johnson |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 16/09/2011 : 06:02:08
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quote:
Originally posted by carraj
Something isn't adding up here -- Olaf #1 died May 6, 1988. Olaf #2 born May 31, 1887. Families didn't give children the same name as an older sibling until AFTER the child died, right?
Not necessarily. Some families have 2 Grandfathers named Ole so therefore there had to be 2 namesake Oles in the family. I researched one family that had 3 Oles one after the other and 2 years apart--trying to keep them straight in records was difficult.
Jackie M. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 17/09/2011 : 04:11:49
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Hi,
Here is marriage between a Martin Olson and a Berthia b. 1857, #6:
Kildeinformasjon: Hedmark fylke, Arneberg i Hof, Ministerialbok nr. 11 (1879-1911), Ekteviede 1879-1880, side 118.
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=4738&idx_id=4738&uid=ny&idx_side=-117
And here is their son Olaf (note year as 1880) #8
Kildeinformasjon: Hedmark fylke, Arneberg i Hof, Ministerialbok nr. 11 (1879-1911), Fødte og døpte 1881, side 7.
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=4738&idx_id=4738&uid=ny&idx_side=-10
And here are all 3 leaving, #4,5,6:
Kildeinformasjon: Hedmark fylke, Arneberg i Hof, Ministerialbok nr. 11 (1879-1911), Utflyttede 1879-1882, side 176.
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=4738&idx_id=4738&uid=ny&idx_side=-160
And here they are leaving Oslo headed for Northwood, D.T.:
http://digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=7&filnamn=emikra1&gardpostnr=32453&merk=32453#ovre
And in 1865 on Kløften is a 15 year old Martin Ols. and he has a brother named Bernhart:
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=2&filnamn=f60424&gardpostnr=473&merk=473#ovre\
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/rural-residence/bf01038042003384
Jackie M. |
Edited by - jkmarler on 08/08/2021 21:12:33 |
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Martin Satre born May 1851 in Norway
