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brejohns
Medium member

USA
152 Posts

Posted - 30/12/2012 :  04:39:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We are planning to visit Norway this coming year and would like to visit the church and cemetery where we believe my husband's great grandfather is buried. His name is Johannes Andreassen (Johannesen) born in 1867, married Lise Hanson on 1/18/1892 and was killed on March 21, 1905. He was born, confirmed, married and buried in Hedmark County, Ringsaker muncipality. We found his burial information on page 189 in the parish records for Veldre in Ringsaker. Although we can not interpete all the Norwegian information. We know he was killed by 3 highwaymen from Sweden. We do know that his farm was called Sveum and was located near Brumunddal. Can anyone tell us where his farm may have been located or where this church is located? I located 3 Sveum farms, but do not know their locations. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

hasto
Senior member

Norway
294 Posts

Posted - 30/12/2012 :  09:11:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The Church book tells a different story:
Johannes Andreasen Sveum, born 1867, committed suicide (by hanging). Address: Glestad-eie
The comment in the column to the right I interpret like: The suicide was probably committed because of loss due to drinking.

The family in 1900 census:
Lise Hansdatter had a girl, Gønner Marie Lovise, born Oct 5 1905 Church book. Then the address was Ottersrud-bakken.
Lise Hansdatter emigrated Oslo 1907
Leaving the parish Church book nr 15-18

Ottersrud on map:

Veldre church
The old church burnt down in 1996, and a new one was finished year 2000.
In Norway tombstones often are removed after 20 years when there are no family paying for it.

Harald S Storaker
4586 Korshamn, Norge

Edited by - hasto on 30/12/2012 16:32:07
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brejohns
Medium member

USA
152 Posts

Posted - 30/12/2012 :  19:54:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes - I think we are talking about the same person. That is a very interesting side to the history that was passed down to us. Johannes' wife Lise immigrated to America on May 17, 1907 and brought her 3 children Askel, Hans and Gonner Marie Lovise (changed to Louise). I did find them listed on the passenger list. Lise died in 1954 in Seattle WA but related the history to her daughter Louise. This is where we were told that Johannes had taken horses into the town of Brumundall to sell and he received 700 kroners. On his return home he was crossing a bridge and 3 highwaymen jumped him and strangled him with the horse reins. When Louise's daughter visited Norway in 1988 she was told that this was the only murder that had ever occurred in this area and many people remembered it. About 3 years after arriving in America Lise was informed that the 3 Swedish Highwaymen were caught and prosecuted. I wonder if there is a record of that any where - if it actually occurred?? It may be a combination of both the church records as you have provided to me plus foggy family memories. But it very interesting. Would you happen to know if the Sveum farm is # 265, 394 or 157? Thanks for interpreting the church records. We appreciate any and all information you can provide. Happy New Year to you.
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hasto
Senior member

Norway
294 Posts

Posted - 01/01/2013 :  12:44:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Johannes Andreassen Sveum in 1900 census. Click "Neste" and you find his neighbour on Toresven
That make me think that on map of today the farm is this Sveom. Another map (try zoom and Flyfoto option).

I have forwarded your message to a Norwegian message board in Digitalarkivet, and there a person with more local knowledge will try to check up the story. He says the bygdebok (farm history book) confirms your family's story: He was a clever, hard-working well-liked man. He had been to Hamar and sold a horse. He later on was found dead on the road, robbed for his money.

The bygdebok describe him as an honest well-liked man. That make me think: perhaps it rather was a personal tragedy. He had been to town, got drunk, sold his horse, got cheated, lost his money, and on his way home he committed suicide.
Nobody had seen it, nobody knew what had happened. Since he was well-liked among his neighbours, somebody would say: maybe he was killed, maybe he was robbed, maybe some nasty Swedes have been here -

Maybe: He was killed, and the pastor made too hasty conclusions in the church book.

Maybe: we will never know the truth -

Johannes was born out of wedlock on Stolpestad-eie, March 1 1867: Church book (nr 22).
He was a foster child in 1875 census.
His mother was a "budeie" (working with cattle) on Stolpestad in 1875 census
In 1900 census Johannes took care of his old mother on Sveum farm.
He was married in Ringsaker church Jan 18 1892 Church book.


Harald S Storaker
4586 Korshamn, Norge

Edited by - hasto on 01/01/2013 12:48:01
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran

Norway
6453 Posts

Posted - 01/01/2013 :  18:25:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Another map showing Sveom and Bakken (both belonging to farm nr 19)


Einar
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brejohns
Medium member

USA
152 Posts

Posted - 02/01/2013 :  03:57:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I can't begin to tell you how much we appreciate all the information you have uncovered for us. This is getting more interesting all the time. The first information we received about Johannes Andreassen's death was that his wife found him hanging from a bridge and that 3 highwaymen had robbed him. But after his granddaughter went to Norway in 1988 and getting more information from her mother Louise (Gonner-3rd child of Johannes - born 7 months after he died) the story was revised and indicated that a neighbor Bjorn Sundquist had witnessed the killing and brought his body back to the farm and told Lise that 3 Swedish highwayman had robbed Johannes stole 700 Krones (from the horse sale) and strangled him with his own horse reins. Mr. Sundquist had also contact the police. Yes - you are correct. We probably will never know all the facts, but we are learning more facts about Johannes than ever before. I will check out the map links you gave me. We are currently checking on some cousins located in the area of Brumunddal - I believe the name was Constanse Strom and her daughter Oase married a Kare Ottesen. Kare and Oase had 4 sons and I believe one son,Tjere, worked at the post office in Brumunddal. We're hoping to meet a few relatives when we come to Norway. Thanks again!
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran

Norway
6453 Posts

Posted - 02/01/2013 :  11:20:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The baptismal record for Lise Hansdatter (Lise Hanson) is #65.
Her parents Hans Larsen and Gønner Knudsdatter were married Jan 5 1867, #7.

Baptismal record for Hans Larsen is #5 - born Dec 13 1839, parents Lars Hansen, Bergousteiet and Marte Hansdatter.

Baptismal record for Gønner Knudsdatter is #17 - born Febr 5 1840, parents Knud Knudsen, Husum and Marte Larsdatter.

Einar

Edited by - eibache on 02/01/2013 15:26:24
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brejohns
Medium member

USA
152 Posts

Posted - 03/01/2013 :  04:13:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
In 1867 Norway when a child was born out-of-wedlock how was he usually named? If the mother's name was Marthe Eriksdatter how does the child receive the surname of Andreassen? Here in the US most children if unclaimed by the father will have the mother's last name. Just wondering how this worked in Norway as all Johannes church records reflect the last name of Andreassen. Again, thank you for all the time you have spent researching this. It is appreciated.
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hasto
Senior member

Norway
294 Posts

Posted - 03/01/2013 :  21:25:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
At that time Norwegians used patronymics. That is an individual surname, telling who you are son or daughter of. Johannes was a "son of Andreas" = Andreassen.
Johannes Andreassen Sveum means: Johannes, son of Andreas, living on Sveum farm.
Sveum farm 1900 census
His wife was Lise Hansdatter Sveum: Lise, daughter of Hans, living on Sveum farm. His mother was daughter of Erik, and his sons were sons of himself, Johannes.

The baptism 1867 shows his father as Andreas Johannesen Tande. Probably that is the servant boy (18) on Tande in 1865 census. There is no perfect match with that in the church books. My guess is that he was born Dec 12 1845 on Hulberg Ringsaker church book. His parents were Johannes Monsen and Maria Olsdatter.
He emigrated to Amerika March 28 1867, 11 days after the baptism of Johannes.
But this is just guessing, Andreas Johannesen was a very common name in that area, so he might be another one.

Hulberg, Sveom and Tande on map

Harald S Storaker
4586 Korshamn, Norge

Edited by - hasto on 03/01/2013 21:36:23
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brejohns
Medium member

USA
152 Posts

Posted - 04/01/2013 :  02:31:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Many thanks. All this information is appreciated.
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brejohns
Medium member

USA
152 Posts

Posted - 04/01/2013 :  02:54:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My husband's grandfather was Hans Johanneson born on November 17, 1897 in Veldre Norway, Hedmark County. I believe his birth record is on page 42 in your database for 1897 Ringsaker. Would you be able to confirm the location of his birth? His father was Johannes Andreassen and his mother was Lisa Hansdatter. This is the location that we must absolutely visit while in Norway. Thanks.
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hasto
Senior member

Norway
294 Posts

Posted - 04/01/2013 :  04:30:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hans was born on By. I found 3 places called By in Ringsaker. I think By close to Veldre church, on Byflaten, is the right one.
Map

Harald S Storaker
4586 Korshamn, Norge
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brejohns
Medium member

USA
152 Posts

Posted - 05/01/2013 :  03:22:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes - I believe you are correct. I wondered if that word was "By" or "Boy" on his birth record. Thanks for confirming the location. We'll make sure to visit this area.
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brejohns
Medium member

USA
152 Posts

Posted - 19/01/2013 :  05:52:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We found the birth certicate for for my husband's grandfather but it is in Norwegian. Would you be able to translate it for us? It lists the birth at By but it may have additional information also. Did they usually include the name of the farm on birth certificates? I have a copy of the birth certificate that I would like to attach, but I'm not sure how to do this.
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran

Norway
6453 Posts

Posted - 19/01/2013 :  08:24:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
e-mail is an option.

Einar
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higranlu
New on board

Norway
1 Posts

Posted - 24/01/2013 :  09:34:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If you send me a message when you intend to travel, I'll put you in touch with my husband. He is the organist in the very old and beautiful Ringsaker Church. I am sure he would love to give you a guided tour. He is also very interested in local history and can surely look up any information you need. The local vicar is also a good man to talk to, he has spent several years at Mindekirken in Minnesota.

Edited by - higranlu on 24/01/2013 09:35:05
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