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johanAronsen63
Junior member

USA
37 Posts

Posted - 31/08/2022 :  16:06:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello,

I’ve had many unresolved mysteries and brick walls in certain people that form part of my Norwegian ancestry.

I’ll get right to the point; I need help finding the parents of certain people or more information about them.

PEOPLE:

• An ancestor of mine is named Laurine Martine Gundersdatter. She was born on the 25th of November of 1822, in Oslo, and baptized in January of 1823. She married Ole Nielsen Øhrn (1820-1902) in 1844, in Oslo. Her father was named Gunder Olsen Hernæs and I think that he was born in 1798. Her mother was named Berthe Cecilie Olsdatter and I think that she was born in 1793. Laurine’s parents got married in 1822 in Oslo.
The problem is that I can’t find when and where Laurine’s parents were born and who their parents were.

• Ole Nielsen Øhrn, Laurine’s husband, was born on 7th January of 1820, in Kongsberg, and baptized in June of that year. His father was named Niels Olsen Øhrn (1788-1830). I have no problem with his side of the family. Ole’s mother was named Karen Lovise Eliasdatter (sometimes Nilsdr Eliasen).
The problem is that I can’t find when and where she was born and who her parents were.

Thank you to anyone who at least stops by for some advice or some well-needed help.

ToreL
Advanced member

Norway
816 Posts

Posted - 31/08/2022 :  16:46:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The info given at the baptisms of Laurine Martine's siblings in 1825, 1827, 1829 and 1832, is that Gunder was military man; a Halvmaaneblæser, which means that he had the task of conveying commands to the military unit using a Halvmånehorn; a half moon horn. Here are photos as well as sound files for various commands. With a little luck, extant military records may hold more info about him.

Did you get the age estimates from this (#10) marriage record? The groom may have the title of a "Halvmaaneblæser" here as well, although he is described as a jæger at Laurine Martine's baptism.

Edited by - ToreL on 31/08/2022 19:31:57
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ToreL
Advanced member

Norway
816 Posts

Posted - 31/08/2022 :  18:03:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Gunder and Berthe Cecilia also had a child in 1821, before the 1822 marriage. Here, Gunder is again a jæger, while Berthe Cecilia is described as a widow. This could possibly be her previous marriage. Or this one in 1813. The bride's name is here transcribed as Bente, but in a baptism a few years later the name is Berte

Edited by - ToreL on 31/08/2022 18:50:48
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran

USA
9207 Posts

Posted - 31/08/2022 :  20:04:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here is the Ancestry.com record for the marriage of Lovise and Niels. the original record does not seem to have any other useful information such as birth year or father for Lovise?

Nils Olsen Øren
in the Norway, Church Records, 1812-1938
Name: Nils Olsen Øren
Record Type: ekteskap (Marriage)
Marriage Date: 23 des 1815 (23 Dec 1815)
Marriage Place: Kongsberg, Buskerud, Norge (Norway)
Marriage Municipality: Kongsberg
Spouse:
Karen Lovise Nilsd Elieren

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/view/327/pv00000001488459

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070316630450

https://www.ancestry.com/discoveryui-content/view/5073063:60606

Edited by - AntonH on 31/08/2022 20:49:17
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ToreL
Advanced member

Norway
816 Posts

Posted - 31/08/2022 :  22:30:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Karen Lovise was (approximately) 63 years old at hear death in 1847, so we should be looking for a birth around 1784: No. 81

Edited by - ToreL on 31/08/2022 22:32:26
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ToreL
Advanced member

Norway
816 Posts

Posted - 01/09/2022 :  21:35:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Someone tipped me that several users on MyHeritage have (different) opinions about Gunder's date and place of birth. This is copied from one of these trees:

Navn Gunder Olsen Hernæs
Alternativt navn Gunner Olesen
Fødsel 1798
Barnedåp 4. mar 1798
Sør-Odal, Norway
Folketelling Jæger / Hunter
1822
Vaterland, Oslo, Norway
Ekteskap 15. feb 1822
Garnison Menighet, Oslo, Akershus, Norway
Ekteskap Ekteskap til: Berthe Cecilie Olsdatter
15. feb 1822
Oslo, Norway
Folketelling Halvmaaneblæser No 11, 4de Cp.
1829
Vaterland, Oslo, Norway
Død 1865
Norway

The baptism in Sør-Odal should be looked at, although I am not sure how to check if it's the right one. Be that as it may, the tree should be of interest to you if you haven't seen it, as it contains a photo of Laurine Martine's sister born in 1829. Here is a link to the site in case you have the means to access it.

Edited by - ToreL on 01/09/2022 23:07:05
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ToreL
Advanced member

Norway
816 Posts

Posted - 01/09/2022 :  21:53:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here is the baptism referred to above, next to the third occurrence of Döbt in the second column. Father is Ole Syversen, as advertised on the Myheritage site, possibly living at Fredsvold.

The modern spelling of Fredsvold is Fresvoll. It is covered in volume 4 of Sør-Odal bygdebok, but the coverage of Ole Syversen is minimal. The authors had just seen him in two baptisms in the church book; for a son named Lars, born 1795 and died 1798, and then Gunder born in 1798. This is probably the family at the 1801 census, then living at store Sundby. Then there is a confirmation for one Gunder Ols. Bjørndal (or similar) 16 1/2 years old, in 1814: #28. Not necessarily the same man, but that is the challenge with the people who didn't own their farm, often moving from place to place every few years.

There is one Gunder Olsen Sandereng, 21 years old, leaving Odalen for Christiania in 1820: #27

I am not sure if there is more to be discovered here. The relocation to Oslo in 1820 is interesting, but on the other hand I see nothing connecting him to Hernæs. (There is a farm called that in the area.) Perhaps the manager of the MyHeritage tree knows something that we don't.

Edited by - ToreL on 01/09/2022 23:14:34
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johanAronsen63
Junior member

USA
37 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2022 :  00:49:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello, I find the relocation to Oslo of that specific Gunder Olsen very interesting, as well. I’ve found more information on MyHeritage, but it also redirects me to another tree on FamilySearch which has listed that Gunder was born on the 21st of January,
of 1798, in Sjorbotten, Hof, Hedmark. But, the parents are named Erik Olsen and Johanne Andersdatter (meaning that he might also be called Gunder Eriksson). The family tree shows that he died in 1865, but I need help confirming if that’s true.

Also, on a side note, I’ve been trying to look through bygdebøker, but as I live in the US, it doesn’t allow me to check the national archives. What information is usually outlined on them?
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran

USA
9207 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2022 :  01:58:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here is what Ancestry.com has on Gender

Gunder Eriksen
in the Norway, Select Baptisms, 1634-1927
Name: Gunder Eriksen
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 21 Jan 1798
Baptism Place: , Hof, Hedmark, Norway
Father:
Erik Olsen
Mother:
Johanne Andersd
FHL Film Number: 124288

There are several trees associated with this person on Ancestry but they are a real mess. They link in the 1801 Census to a family in More og Romsdal?

But they have the children of
Gunder Erikson (Olsen)
1798–
BIRTH 21 JANUARY 1798 • Sjorbotten, Norway
DEATH Unknown

Berthe Cicilie Olsdatter
1793–1842
BIRTH 1793 • Norway
DEATH 5 OKT 1842 • Oslo Norge

Edited by - AntonH on 02/09/2022 02:04:49
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran

USA
9207 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2022 :  02:10:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I wonder if that Gunder Eriksen did not die at age 3 weeks. Here is a Gunder Eriksen Siørbøtten dies in 1798?

Baptism for him on Siøbotten

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/255/pd00000009106889

And his death notice

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/267/pg00000001665731Th

Here are Erich Olsen and wife Johanne Andersdtter and one daughter Olea age 12 on Schørbotten in the 1801 Census

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01058242001332

Edited by - AntonH on 02/09/2022 02:17:53
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran

USA
9207 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2022 :  02:41:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:

I am not sure if there is more to be discovered here. The relocation to Oslo in 1820 is interesting, but on the other hand I see nothing connecting him to Hernæs. (There is a farm called that in the area.) Perhaps the manager of the MyHeritage tree knows something that we don't.


For what its worth, there is a Ole Syvertsen who dies on øvr. Hærnes Ejet born about 1749 (a little off of the 1754 from the 1801 Census)

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/267/pg00000002108066

Listed as age 55 in the original record

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/9143/4

I only found those two Ole Syvertsen in the Digitalarkviet records for Strøm?

Edited by - AntonH on 02/09/2022 02:44:46
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran

USA
7765 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2022 :  05:22:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Gunder here as "hoboist" (means oboe player?)"
https://www.nb.no/items/be0dea2069059d2e4356246f6dfe7cb1?page=1&searchText=%22%20gunder%20Hern%C3%A6s%22

Other than Laurine Martine's marriage in 1844 is there any other time in later times that Gunder appears in records? This one is wrong he is not the bride's father, but witness or bondsman to the marriage in 1835:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/327/pv00000009655658

Laurine Martine confirmation # 12
Garnisonsmenigheten Kirkebøker, SAO/A-10846/G/Ga/L0004: Klokkerbok nr. 4, 1828-1840, s. 293
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20061009050591

Edited by - jkmarler on 02/09/2022 13:27:47
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ToreL
Advanced member

Norway
816 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2022 :  08:52:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler

Gunder here as "hoboist" (means oboe player?)"
https://www.nb.no/items/be0dea2069059d2e4356246f6dfe7cb1?page=1&searchText=%22%20gunder%20Hern%C3%A6s%22


Store Vognmandsgate was located on Vaterland, which was his address at several of the baptisms.
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johanAronsen63
Junior member

USA
37 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2022 :  09:31:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If Ole Syversen was the father, then wouldn’t Marte Hansdatter be the mother (from the 1801 census). Presumably she was and she was born around 1767.
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ToreL
Advanced member

Norway
816 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2022 :  10:09:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by AntonH
For what its worth, there is a Ole Syvertsen who dies on øvr. Hærnes Ejet born about 1749 (a little off of the 1754 from the 1801 Census)

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/267/pg00000002108066

Listed as age 55 in the original record

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/9143/4


Looks like break through. I wouldn't be concerned about the age discrepancy; a few years more for good measure at the funeral wasn't uncommon. It would be good to find more definite confirmation, though.

Edited by - ToreL on 02/09/2022 10:10:50
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ToreL
Advanced member

Norway
816 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2022 :  13:28:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Berthe Cecilia died in 1842, 63 (!) years old. When looking at the original record, there is no doubt about the identity; she was the wife of halvmaaneblæser no. 11 Gunder Hernæs i Vaterland: Top right

63 years old in 1842 indicates a birth around 1779, far from the birth year implied by the marriage record, but the biological facts (giving birth in 1832) side with the latter.

Corresponding record in municipal death protocol: #348. No age given here. She leaves a widower and five children, of which four from the last marriage. None had come of age. (Which in 1842 meant 25 years old for men, possibly never for women.)

Edited by - ToreL on 02/09/2022 15:13:09
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