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NancyC
Medium member
Norway
198 Posts |
 Posted - 14/01/2018 : 17:32:43
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| In connection with research I am doing, I discovered that a good many of the passengers on the Sjofna for this sailing were from Ringsaker (Ringsaker, Veldre and Furnes parishes). I have been adding information to passengers as I have found them in the lists of "utflyttede". It is a lot more work than I anticipated, and I do not know how far I will get with it. For those who are interested, here is the link to Ministerialbok nr. 8, 1837-1850, starting with page 410. You can click through the next pages to find additional passengers https://media.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070110650528 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
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NancyC
Medium member
Norway
198 Posts |
Posted - 14/01/2018 : 20:02:04
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Yes, I know. But... you do not know who these people actually are, since they are listed without their farm names, and the women are listed under their husbands' patronymics, instead of their own. There is no information about where they originated from. This information you can glean from the lists of "utflyttede", but you don't know where to start unless you 1) know that your folks are on that list and have information about where they came from, or 2) know where to look for them in the lists of "utflyttede". I hoped this added information would help someone point them to their folks on this list!
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 15/01/2018 : 12:47:15
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You have an option to attach a note to any person on any passenger list on this site.
But the original transcription of the list should be maintained if it truly reflects what is in the record that is there, rather than a "remuddling" which could cause you to draw conclusions which might not be, in fact, true. |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 15/01/2018 : 20:24:21
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Here is a letter Hans Olsen Thorud, passenger on the Sjofna in 1850, wrote home to the newspaper Drammens Tidende, It says Sjofna left Drammen on 07 Aug 1850. Interesting story!
January 27, 1851
As time now permits me to write, I make use of it in the hope that these lines may find you all in good health.
We left Drammen on August 7 last year on the ship Sjofna commanded by Captain Hovland, and we arrived safe and sound in New York on September 19, that is to say, after six weeks, a rapid crossing. I was in good health while we were at sea.
God be praised, and everything went well and very pleasantly among the passengers on board, except that we had seven deaths on the way.
On our arrival at New York we drew up a contract with Halvor Poulsson for transportation from this city to Buffalo, for which we paid $2.50 a person, with our baggage free of charge.
We were stowed together in the hold of a canalboat and were treated in every way like so many swine. Several of us fell ill.
After ten long, rough days we arrived here. Lars Lie and I took lodgings with Christoffer Christensen from Kongsberg, who showed us so much kindness that we shall never be able to thank him enough. He owns a house in Buffalo, as do many other Norwegians who live here.
I am very sorry to have to tell you, dear friends, that America is not at all the country that our countrymen have described it to be, and it is a great shame for such swindlers to entice so many of their fellow human beings and countrymen to come here only to end up as beggars.
This is now true of several Norwegians who arrived here last year and who, because of their deficiency in the language, are not able to compete with Americans, although they are very capable people of the middle classes.
Dear friends and countrymen, consider carefully what you are doing before you decide to come here.
Please do not expect to find roasted pigs, with knives and forks in their backs, ready for anyone to eat.
Moreover, the high daily wages supposed to be paid here are nothing but a fable.
Daily wages here are from two marks twelve skillings to three marks, with few or no jobs available.
The work is very hard, as you have to accomplish in one day here what you get three days to do in Norway.
If you go to the western parts of America to buy land, it is uncultivated, and it will take two or three years before it is of any use to you.
The distance from the main cities, Chicago and Milwaukee, will then be sixty or seventy miles.
Roads are bad, at times quite impassable, and most of the Norwegians and other nationals have lost their money before they reach their destination.
Then they can only become beggars. Besides there are just as many taxes here as in Norway: poor tax, city tax, business tax, school tax, and so on.
What you are quite sure to get here is a sickly body; Norwegians suffer particularly from the ague.
As to landowner G, I can tell you that one of his daughters married a mountain farmer, that the other is a servant girl in Milwaukee, that two years ago one of his sons made a living as a woodcutter, and that the landowner himself now has nothing but what good people give to him, so you may understand it is not so easy for the great ones to come here.
There is not one out of a hundred persons here who does not wish he were back in his dear Norway. But as they have no money, they have to stay where they are, to fight it out with the mosquitoes, and shake with the ague.
Hans Olsen Thorud |
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NancyC
Medium member
Norway
198 Posts |
Posted - 15/01/2018 : 20:46:50
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I am a bit puzzled why you think I want to remuddle any lists. I have dutifully gone into the passenger list for the Sjofna sailing, and following the instructions "Addition: Read or submit by clicking the names", clicked on a number of the people that I had identified in the lists of "utflyttede" from Furnes and Ringsaker, and added information as to their birthdates and the farms where they lived at the time of their emigration. (In cases where I couldn't be completely sure of transcribing a birthdate or farm name correctly, I only put in the information I was sure of.) But it is time consuming, and I saw that I probably would not finish that job, since I am actually working on another project and happened to stumble across these other people when I found the ones I was looking for. I assume you want people to add information in the way that I did. I looked for some place on the web page for the Sjofna passenger list where I could put in the link to the list of "utflyttede" from Ringsaker (there were only a few people from Furnes, and I had put in the information for them). But there was no place I could add this information, so that interested people could check and compare the two lists themselves. That is why I posted it here, thinking that it might save other people some work.
It strikes me that this discussion is not very helpful to anyone in the way it is developing! If you all would consider finding a place on the Sjofna list to add the link to the list from digitalarkivet, we could simply delete the present posts. I still believe it would be helpful to have this information added as an "addition", and I cannot understand that it would remuddle anything on this list! Some of the passenger lists have information on where the passengers came from, and some provide some farm names, which can be even more helpful in confirming identities. But this one does not, so I would think the link to an added resource might be quite helpful to people looking for their own needles in the passenger list haystacks! |
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NancyC
Medium member
Norway
198 Posts |
Posted - 15/01/2018 : 22:20:45
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Thanks so much for posting the letter from Hans Olsen Thorud! This adds interesting color to this journey! Do you have the Norwegian original? Or do you know where it might be found?
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 15/01/2018 : 22:37:49
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stevennelson
New on board
USA
3 Posts |
Posted - 26/09/2018 : 02:33:20
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Hello, my wife is a descendant of #82 Borne Johnson and #83 Agnete Johnson, so I would like to share and see if you can help me sort through a couple topics, please.
So an article in the La Crosse Tribune dated May 21st 1939, La Crosse WI under Recalls Pioneer Days In County Among Early Norwegian Settlers interview with Miss Mattie Larson who is the maternal granddaughter of Borne & Agnete a paragraph as follows:
Came here in 1850
Miss Larson's maternal grand-father, Born Johnson Nystuen, sold his farm in Ringsaker, Norway and emigrated to America with his wife and six children in the summer of 1850, sailing on the "Shofna". They had to bring their own provisions for the crossing, which took several weeks, and when the supply ran low the family was put on rations. Miss Larson's mother was 15 years old at the time. Her grandfather died when they reached Lake Michigan, and was buried on Manitou island.
Note there is a North and a South Manitou island so not sure which one, although suspect the South island was more advanced in 1850.
Now the mother of Miss Mattie Larson is Gonner Borreson and by looking at the archive it said male age 7 this is individual #84 and as I look at original looks like daughter born 1836 so should be 14 or 15 also would then be in chronological order. I notice the transcription ages all seem to be different on some of the children. Thoughts?
Thxs
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 26/09/2018 : 02:46:35
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| The only sure thing is to look at the original handwritten record. I'm quite certain that the "errors" you mentioned are reflected in the original. I've looked at a number of original passenger lists (though not for this voyage) and can tell you that spelling is not an object nor are they often factually accurate. |
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stevennelson
New on board
USA
3 Posts |
Posted - 26/09/2018 : 03:01:25
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| Almost like they got off on a different line or something as child two Johannes and child three Thanette are twins and the youngest is 3 or 4 not 9 months? Do not know if they can fix or better done through notes on the individuals??? |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 26/09/2018 : 09:22:15
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| Back where the transcription is located on this page at the top there is a small line that says (see scan of the list). You can compare this transcription to the original list. You can also add a note to any of the transcribed names on the list. |
Edited by - jkmarler on 26/09/2018 09:32:21 |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 26/09/2018 : 19:58:56
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The original church records from moving out of parish in 1850 shows this:
#83 Børre Johnsen, Søndre Sæter farm 52
#84 Agnete Torgersdatter 39
#85 Gunner Børresdatter f b. 21 Jan 1836
#86 Johannes Børresen m b. 16 Aug 1837 twin
#87 Thonette Børresdatter f b. 16 Aug 1837 twin
#88 Andreas Børresen m b. 13 Jan 1841
#89 Oline Børresdatter f b. 21 Aug 1843
#90 Kristian Børresen m b. 13 Jan 1846 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 26/09/2018 : 20:49:39
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And here is the transcription of the passenger list:
ID 344482 Borne Johnson 53 m Between deck
ID 344583 Agnete !! Johnson* 50 f Between deck
ID 344684 Gunner Bornesen* 7 m Between deck
ID 344785 Johannes Bornesen* 13 m Between deck
ID 344886 Thanette do Bornesdatter* 9 f Between deck
ID 344987 Andreas Bornesen* 5 m Between deck
ID 345088 Oline Bornesdatter* 3 f Between deck
ID 345189 Christian Bornesen* 9 mo m Between deck
On the original passenger list the patronymic name for any of those after Borne are actually ditto marks. The transcription accurately reflects what is on the original passenger list, except for the addition of the patronymics. The passenger list is a different record than the church utflyttede record, kept by different people for different reasons. The transcription is it's own record kept for its own purposes and is what it is.
As stated before, any person can add notes to any of the people on this list. If they feel strongly enough about it, they should avail themselves the opportunity to do.
Here's a link to the scan:
http://www.norwayheritage.com/p_scan.asp?jo=1698 |
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stevennelson
New on board
USA
3 Posts |
Posted - 27/09/2018 : 02:31:12
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Thank you both for your replies. In summary looks like accuracy in this case is more so in the church record (typical). The written passenger list and the transcription do reflect the same information just with errors on original. I may add information as could confuse any researchers, but don't want to re write so maybe a footnote. I will just share some of the obit for Gonner Borreson it was on Thursday, March 17, 1927 as follows:
West Salem, Wisconsin
Mrs. Christian Larson
Last Saturday morning March 12th, the last of the pioneers of Larson Coulee passed away. Mrs.Christian Larson, nee Gonner Borreson, was born in Ringsaker, Norway, Jan. 14th, 1835. At age 15 years she came to America with her parents Borre Johnson and wife Agnette Torgerson Sather. The father died on the way over. etc etc
So good information!
Looks like Borne was laid to rest on the beautiful islands of Manitou in Lake Michigan
RIP Borne
Thxs
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 27/09/2018 : 06:26:30
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| Ps. Scanning through old newspaper-articles from the period, it's always the northern Manitou that is mentioned... |
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Bark Sjofna, arriving New York 21 Sept 1850
