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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
 Posted - 10/05/2021 : 02:02:32
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| I actually meant on the certificate. All the other have a well written name of some sort Patrick Deveney, ___Armstrong, Herbert Rose, etc. Emma's says "By slip" what does that mean? |
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MargaretFriesen
Starting member
Canada
8 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2021 : 02:07:48
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| I am sorry, but I do not know which certificate you are referring to. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
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Borge
Veteran Moderator
Norway
1293 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2021 : 11:01:24
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quote:
Originally posted by MargaretFriesen
Yes, thank you. This is quite a transcription error and likely occurred because the original record is blurred on the name line. Alas, this passenger list entry is still a problem. My Beaumont male ancestor was 27 in 1893, my Beaumont female (wife) ancestor was 26 in 1893, their child Richard (also transcribed incorrectly) was 3 years old, born in 1891. Those ages do not match the arrival date of 1895, but rather 1893. As you and others have confirmed, there is no listing for this family in any of the 1893 indexes, so I still think that this passenger list date is problematic. But how to prove it? Among other things, the summary of the number of passengers on board has two different numbers. Which one belongs here? Mystified, regards, Margaret
On the passenger list for the Labrador arriving Sept. 23rd 1893, there is a family "Aasen" on page 4 which can also be found in the Christiania emigration records as departing Oslo on Sept. 8th 1893. This confirms that the passenger list of 1893 carried passenger departing from Europe 1893. Anton found the same fact to be true for the 1895 list. The lists are numbered (arrival numbers), and the sheets from the 1893 arrival are all marked as list number 97. On the Sept. 1895 list all the sheets are marked as arrival number 70. The format of the two lists is different so it should be easy to identify any errors. All in all I think the evidence confirms that the lists have not been mixed up. |
Børge Solem |
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MargaretFriesen
Starting member
Canada
8 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2021 : 16:30:24
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| Thank you, Borge Solem. Your analysis seems definitive then. I just do not understand why the ages of the passengers as given on the passenger list don't match the reality of the relatives' ages that we have confirmed through both UK and Canadian sources. If the arrival was indeed 1895, then the ages on the passenger list are off by 2 or 3 years. Is there an explanation? Thank you. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2021 : 17:54:35
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| The likeliest event is that the search engines didn't find your family when they left and arrived. Sometimes expected records aren't preserved. More often than not, the names are garbled on the original, and then more garbled on the reduction to text copy which is what is searched. |
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Borge
Veteran Moderator
Norway
1293 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2021 : 23:32:55
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quote:
Originally posted by MargaretFriesen
Thank you, Borge Solem. Your analysis seems definitive then. I just do not understand why the ages of the passengers as given on the passenger list don't match the reality of the relatives' ages that we have confirmed through both UK and Canadian sources. If the arrival was indeed 1895, then the ages on the passenger list are off by 2 or 3 years. Is there an explanation? Thank you.
Some lists are very messy, like this 1895 in question. You can see the purser messed up the numbering between page 6 and 7, and on page 8 he noted no ages at all, just an A to indicate the passenger was an adult. You should always take in to consideration the reason for creating the records. The passenger lists were made for the main purpose of collection passenger tax, and you see on the summary the discrepancy between the number of souls and the number of adults which they were equal to under the immigration act of 1869. The passengers were counted in 3 categories, adults, children between 1 and 14 years and infants not over 1 year. The children between 1 and 14 were counted as ½ adult, and infants were counted as ¼ adult. The passenger lists were not intended to serve as valuable genealogical records for later generations, and getting the names and ages correctly was probably not their first priority. They cared mostly about getting the numbers right to calculate the passenger tax. |
Børge Solem |
Edited by - Borge on 10/05/2021 23:39:25 |
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MargaretFriesen
Starting member
Canada
8 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2021 : 02:26:01
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Thank you, all, for your informative replies and guidance and patience. I stand corrected. I have been matching the wrong family to ours. I have now found an Outward Passenger List from UK for William F. Beaurnme (note incorrect index name), leaving Liverpool 8 Jul 1893. B 18966, wife Harriet, child Richard. SS Lake Superior. Hurrah! But why are they destined for port Trentham? And would they take the same ship to Canada or have to take a different ship? We know they were in Canada by fall 1893. I am unable to find a corresponding Canadian arrival record. It looks like the departing ship Lake Superior was destined for Quebec. What am I missing now. Thank you so much for your guidance and patience. Margaret
quote:
Originally posted by Borge
quote:
Originally posted by MargaretFriesen
Thank you, Borge Solem. Your analysis seems definitive then. I just do not understand why the ages of the passengers as given on the passenger list don't match the reality of the relatives' ages that we have confirmed through both UK and Canadian sources. If the arrival was indeed 1895, then the ages on the passenger list are off by 2 or 3 years. Is there an explanation? Thank you.
Some lists are very messy, like this 1895 in question. You can see the purser messed up the numbering between page 6 and 7, and on page 8 he noted no ages at all, just an A to indicate the passenger was an adult. You should always take in to consideration the reason for creating the records. The passenger lists were made for the main purpose of collection passenger tax, and you see on the summary the discrepancy between the number of souls and the number of adults which they were equal to under the immigration act of 1869. The passengers were counted in 3 categories, adults, children between 1 and 14 years and infants not over 1 year. The children between 1 and 14 were counted as ½ adult, and infants were counted as ¼ adult. The passenger lists were not intended to serve as valuable genealogical records for later generations, and getting the names and ages correctly was probably not their first priority. They cared mostly about getting the numbers right to calculate the passenger tax.
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Borge
Veteran Moderator
Norway
1293 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2021 : 08:18:14
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quote:
Originally posted by MargaretFriesen
Thank you, all, for your informative replies and guidance and patience. I stand corrected. I have been matching the wrong family to ours. I have now found an Outward Passenger List from UK for William F. Beaurnme (note incorrect index name), leaving Liverpool 8 Jul 1893. B 18966, wife Harriet, child Richard. SS Lake Superior. Hurrah! But why are they destined for port Trentham? And would they take the same ship to Canada or have to take a different ship? We know they were in Canada by fall 1893. I am unable to find a corresponding Canadian arrival record. It looks like the departing ship Lake Superior was destined for Quebec. What am I missing now. Thank you so much for your guidance and patience. Margaret
The S.S. Lake Superior arrived Quebec on July 18th 1893. Parts of the passenger list is not readable. |
Børge Solem |
Edited by - Borge on 11/05/2021 08:43:32 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9214 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2021 : 16:45:51
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[quote=
Thank you, all, for your informative replies and guidance and patience. I stand corrected.[/quote]
Well the best part is you found the correct record.
As was true with the earlier record, the English record is cleaner and easier to read. But they still got the tail end of the name wrong.
William F Beaurnme
in the UK and Ireland, Outward Passenger Lists, 1890-1960
Name: William F Beaurnme
Gender: Male
Age: 27
Birth Date: abt 1866
Departure Date: 8 Jul 1893
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
Destination Port: Trentham
Ship Name: Lake Superior |
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Topic |
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Verifying date of ship arrival
