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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
 Posted - 14/11/2013 : 03:06:39
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| The story on Jacob J Hillestad in the 1913 History of Fillmore County says that he came in 1870 and spent his first 2 years in US in Rock county, Wisconsin, moving to Fillmore county in 1872. So very unlikely to be Cornelius Johnson in Baltimore. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 14/11/2013 : 03:13:45
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quote:
Originally posted by JaneC
Norway Heritage Forum also worked on this before. Quoting Kåre:
Jacob Kornelius born on Hillestad Oct. 30. 1848, bap. in Hedenstad church Nov. 12.
Parents; Farmer Johannes Nilsen and Elen Kirstine Hans Jørgens dr.
Godparents; Hans Jørgen Haldorsen Strenge and wife on (farm) Nedre Laugerud, Tore Kirstine Johannesdr. Hillestad, Nils Johannesen Hillestad, Thore Haldorsen Strenge, see #100
http://www.norwayheritage.com/snitz/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5157
Reading through that whole topic is a must to understand if it relates to this current topic. The old topic started with someone posting a request for information on their ancestor Johannes Nielsen of Sandsvær. Later the a poster, not the original poster, identified their ancestor as Jacob Cornelius but the full topic really didn't deal with him. So the 2 travellers in 1870 are connected to the right family the family of Johannes Nielsen but are not related to Cornelius Johnson of this topic. Anyway that's my story and I'm sticking to it. |
Edited by - jkmarler on 14/11/2013 03:58:24 |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 14/11/2013 : 03:24:42
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It is definitely two different people.
I agree, the other topic starts with a person named by Janet who is in fact not necessarily of her family! (because I think the current OP is the same person). Probably she was "checking out" information found in an online family tree. (?)
Also, a death record has now been found that gives a birth date of 13 May 1845 for the Maryland Cornelius. This is new information from the FB thread.
The sister Grete is a little puzzling. A descendant of the MARYLAND Cornelius says Cornelius had a sister Grete who came to the USA. The same person names her ancestor as Cornelius JACOB Johnson, but what is her source for "Jacob"?
I earlier looked at Midwest Hillestads - and the Jacob Hillestad in Minnesota - and there are candidates to be the siblings in the 1880 census, but not an exact fit. The death record of the Jacob in Minnesota may tell his parents' names; I don't recall anyone posting that. However, the man in Minnesota appears to be the man born October 1848 to Elen Kirstine Hans-Jørgensdr. Kløvstad.
Here again is the discussion on Ancestry message board:
http://boards.ancestry.com/localities.scan-balt.norway.general/9465/mb.ashx
The family of Johannes Nilssøn Hillestad / Berg (1798-1873) and Elen Kirstine Hans-Jørgensdr. Kløvstad (1808-1881) is discussed in that forum, and references this book, which gives all the children in the family, the same as the 1865 census (although Grete is grown and gone), and names the husbands of the daughters, and names the years each sibling emigrated to the USA:
http://userdoc.ancestry.com/userdocstore/download.ashx?fileid=141f60cc-254f-436b-a49f-b510dd8bf9e4&mac=8D0AEBDE0A1EC000000nVfu9oeR2Wk=.boards
Children:
- Synnøve Kirstine bd 1831
- Nils 1832
- Tora Kristine 1833 married Ole Jockumsøn
- Hans Jørgen 1835, to America 1867
- Johan Andreas 1837, to America 1866
- Karen Sofia 1841, married Ole Jakobsøn Sunde
- Synnøve Maria 1843, lived in America 1876, married Haakon Jonson Naess
- Grete Karine 1845. to America 1870 where she married Chr. Rasmussen
- Jacob Cornelius 1848, lived in America 1876
- Kristian b d 1851, infant
Source: from Kåre in the other Norway Heritage forum thread, responding to a question about Johannes Nilssøn Hillestad, and from the book, above.
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Edited by - JaneC on 14/11/2013 03:57:03 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9225 Posts |
Posted - 14/11/2013 : 03:31:21
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Then this is probably Grete in the 1880 Census. Houston and Filmore counties are adjacent. 1910 Census states she arrived in 1870.
1880 United States Federal Census
Name: Greta C Rasmussen
Age: 35
Birth Year: abt 1845
Birthplace: Norway
Home in 1880: Houston, Houston, Minnesota
Race: White
Gender: Female
Relation to Head of House: Wife
Marital Status: Married
Spouse's Name: Christian Rasmussen
Father's Birthplace: Norway
Mother's Birthplace: Norway
Neighbors:
Occupation: Keeping House |
Edited by - AntonH on 14/11/2013 03:34:35 |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 14/11/2013 : 03:33:15
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Yes, maybe it is. It could be that BOTH these men had sisters Grete.
This is kind of sad for the Americans who believed they had found the Norwegian roots of their Cornelius in Maryland. |
Edited by - JaneC on 14/11/2013 04:03:28 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9225 Posts |
Posted - 14/11/2013 : 04:01:46
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| It may be sad, but if you look at all of the Family Trees on Ancestry, they have a lot of company. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 14/11/2013 : 04:01:54
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Better to find out now before the tea towels are printed....
Maryland seems to be an unusual destination for most Norwegian emigrants. There is a wee small gap in between babies in the family in the 1880 census. Do we know when, for certain the couple married? |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 14/11/2013 : 06:34:17
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Back with an edit, the smoking gun: Hans J Hillestad born 1835 Norway, immigrated 1868, and died 1904 in Fillmore County, Minnesota - death certificate lists his mother's maiden name as KLOVSTED.
1880 US Census
Beaver, Fillmore, Minnesota
Haakon Ness age 36 b Norway, farmer
Sonnie (?) age 37 b Norway, keeping house [this could be Synneva of the Hillestad family]
Maria age 9, b Norway
Hjalmar age 6, b Minnesota
Ella age 6 months
...on same census page: Hans Hillestad age 44, b Norway, single [no doubt this = Hans Jorgen]
...next census page: John Hillestad age 19 b Norway (related?)
...further along also in Beaver is Jacob Hillestad 31 (with Sophia) and living with them are Nils Hillestad 22 and Hans Hillestad 17 - [maybe nephews?]
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Edited by - JaneC on 14/11/2013 07:34:58 |
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luvjan65
Starting member
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - 14/11/2013 : 06:49:16
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Thank you everyone for the search and work you have done to help me. I too was in the trap searching for Jacob Cornelius Johnson, until someone pointed out that I may be following a different person. Most of the ones on Ancestry.com are related to me and are following the same tree. As Jane C, has said, it is sad for American's to follow our Norwegian roots. I am learning about the Norwegian naming pattern as I do this search, so trying to keep that in mind I am wondering, since Cornelius Johnson lived in America, would he still practice this with his children? According to 1880 census his first son was John. hence Johnson's last name and his second son in 1900 census is Walter. Is there a clue here? Also with the name Cornelius Johnson, would I expect that Cornelius's fathers last name had Cornelius or similar spelling as last name?. So very sorry if I sound like I don't understand this, I am trying, just very confusing. I have been researching form many years but, still feel like a novice at this, especially with searching out of America. This has been the toughest part of my tree so far, just can not find real proof of Cornelius Johnson. I do have three census records, marriage and death certificate, now I need solid proof of birth. On all these records he is known as Cornelius, I would think that on death his full real name would be used. Again thank you to all for you much appreciated help.
Edit: Cornelius Johnson and Mary Messinger were married 1/15/1874 in Baltimore, MD. It is hard to image how he came to settle in Maryland. |
Janet |
Edited by - luvjan65 on 14/11/2013 07:51:43 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 14/11/2013 : 08:01:50
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How rare is it to be a Norwegian in Maryland in the 1800s?
At familysearch in the 1870 census there were 31 people born Norway, in the 1880 census there were 100. Just for comparison you could derive that number from one street in any upper Midwest town.
In the 1870 census there were no other Johnsons named. There was one John Brown b. abt 1823 who would be such an age as to have fathered a child b abt 1845. Otherwise most appear to be roughly contemporary to Cornelius. In the 1870 census a number of the Norwegian born"s cities or districts appear to be named --one for sure was Bergen, another indexed by familysearch as Norwegian was Beian (her husband was from Prussia, however) Most of the last names in the 1870 census seem to be peculiar for Norwegians as if adapted to more English sounding names.
In the 1880 census there are a few other Johnson families. There are a few more Norwegian sounding last names like Gulbranson and Hellixson, etc. John W. Brown is still living in 1880. In 1880 only one specific Norwegian birth location is named, that of Arendal.
What does the marriage license record say? Please share the details. Married in a church or by the judge or ship captain? Who were the witnesses?
I see you have put up the date and location, thanks. If they married In 1874 is Georgeanna's birth information accurate? If it actually was later than 1870, Cornelius could have come later than 1869. Or maybe Georgeanna is the child of prior marriage for either party? |
Edited by - jkmarler on 14/11/2013 08:08:41 |
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luvjan65
Starting member
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - 14/11/2013 : 08:29:51
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I made a recent trip to Md State Archives, there is not certificate for this era, just names written in book. This is the information I could find. No witness or parents names.
Names: Johnson, Cornelius Messinger, Mary-Jane
Address : Balto, Co Balto, Co.
Age: 29 Color: White 19 Color: White
Ocup: Laborer
Issued: 1/10/1874 Marriage: 1/15/1874
Minister: J. Kolb
And for Georgeanna b, 1870, I assumed that since 1910 census says Cornelius Immigration Year was 1869, that she was daughter of Cornelius and Mary (before marriage (1874))?
Edit: I just found an 1870 census that may explain somethings. 1) he may have arrived in Philadelphia 2) that may be where he met Mary Messinger, because this is where her parents were from :) anyway I am attaching that to my tree. Also I am wondering if it may have been a boarding house at the time. |
Janet |
Edited by - luvjan65 on 14/11/2013 09:05:22 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 14/11/2013 : 09:09:01
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quote:
Originally posted by luvjan65
I made a recent trip to Md State Archives, there is not certificate for this era, just names written in book. This is the information I could find. No witness or parents names.
Names: Johnson, Cornelius Messinger, Mary-Jane
Address : Balto, Co Balto, Co.
Age: 29 Color: White 19 Color: White
Ocup: Laborer
Issued: 1/10/1874 Marriage: 1/15/1874
Minister: J. Kolb
And for Georgeanna b, 1870, I assumed that since 1910 census says Cornelius Immigration Year was 1869, that she was daughter of Cornelius and Mary (before marriage (1874))?
Edit: I just found an 1870 census that may explain somethings. 1) he may have arrived in Philadelphia 2) that may be where he met Mary Messinger, because this is where her parents were from :) anyway I am attaching that to my tree. Also I am wondering if it may have been a boarding house at the time.
Her age makes me suspicious, 19 in 1874 and baby born in 1870 when she's 15? Certainly possible but less probable than other circumstances.
Children before marriage are a common event in Norway, much less common over here. |
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luvjan65
Starting member
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - 14/11/2013 : 09:19:18
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(Death record I have reads his birthdate as 5/13/1845)
Originally posted by JaneC[/i]
1900 US Census says he was born May 1845. Is there an additional source for that?
1900
Baltimore City (Independent City), Maryland
C Johnson 55, born May 1845 in Norway, laborer
Mary 46, born May 1854 Maryland, has had 12 children and 6 are living
John 21, born June 1878
Walter 19, born Oct 1880
Frank 16, born April 1884
Alfred 11, born Aug 1888
Annie 7, born June 1892
Maggie 5, born April 1895
A descendant names him as Cornelius Jacob Johnson , spouse Mary J. Messenger. Source is a 2012 post on Ancestry message boards.
Back in an edit: here is more that is posted on Ancestry:
"Cornelius (Jakob Kornelius) Johnson. He was born in Sandsvaer, Buskerud, Norway in May 1845. He died on Nov. 12, 1912 in Batimore, Maryland. His parents were Nielsen Johannes Johnson (1798-1873) and Ellen Kristine Hans Jorgensdatter (1808-1881). Cornelius came to America in 1869"
Emigration is said to be 22 April 1870 when Jakob Cornelius Johannesen Hillestad sailed from Oslo/Kristiania:
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=4&filnamn=EMIOSLO&gardpostnr=15803&sokefelt=skjul
1865 in Sandsvær - presumably he is Jacob on this record:
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=13&filnamn=f60629&gardpostnr=612&sokefelt=skjul
All the above was posted on Ancestry message board.
The American descendant says that Grethe Johannesen Hillestad who emigrated with Jakob Kornelius was his sister, so she seems to confirm this is the correct man. No birth/baptism record was posted.
http://boards.ancestry.com/localities.scan-balt.norway.general/9465/mb.ashx
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Janet |
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 14/11/2013 : 11:25:06
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Jakob Kornelius Johannesen, Hillestad who emigrated in 1870 was born Oct 30 1848, #100.
His sister Grethe Katrine Johannesdatter was born April 12 1844, #64.
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Einar |
Edited by - eibache on 14/11/2013 11:42:36 |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 14/11/2013 : 13:20:55
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quote:
Originally posted by JaneC
Back with an edit, the smoking gun: Hans J Hillestad born 1835 Norway, immigrated 1868, and died 1904 in Fillmore County, Minnesota - death certificate lists his mother's maiden name as KLOVSTED.
His mother was Elen Kirstine Hans-Jørgensdatter Kløvstad and she was born on Nedre (Lower) Kløvstad 1808, bap. in Hedenstad church, father Hans Jørgen Tordsen Kløvstad, see right page line 9. from bottom, link;
Hed. Hans Jørgen Kløvstads D: (Daughter) Elen Kirstine
Her mother was Thore Kirstine Jacobsdatter Evju 1767-1843.
Hans Jørgen Tordsen Kløvstad b. ca 1752 d. 1829 and Thore Kirstine on Kløvstad Nedre 1801 with 5 children, two of Hans Jørgens brothers Ole and Sjuel, three servants and a dau. Karen Kirstine age 9 link
Kløvstad is one of the oldest families in Sandsvær and goes back to Jon Kløvstad mentioned on Kløvstad 1593.
Kåre |
Edited by - Kåarto on 14/11/2013 13:35:19 |
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Cornelius Johnson from Norway to US
