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KerrieTonsen
Junior member
Australia
38 Posts |
 Posted - 21/07/2014 : 09:44:36
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| I have a death certificate for Hans Tonsen (information given by his Australian Wife) who died in Newcastle, NSW, Australia in January, 1906. It states he was born in Stavanger, Rogaland, Norway to parents Joseph and Christina Tonsen in about 1850 - is there any way to research this information - can't find any information which matches in any of the census material available on-line |
KAT |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 21/07/2014 : 10:37:25
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| Do you know when he came to Australia? |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 21/07/2014 : 11:39:25
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Here are two possibles if you allow some tweaking on the names from the document in Australia. Otherwise there were no Hans son of Joseph and Christine in the Stavanger confirmations from 1864-1867 which would be the expected confirmation time of someone born in 1850:
Source information: Rogaland county, Domkirken in Stavanger, Parish register (official) nr. A 17 (1857-1877), Confirmation records 1865, page 41.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=1671&idx_id=1671&uid=ny&idx_side=-44
#4 Hans Fredrich Arentz b. 22 June 1849 in Rogefjørd in Soggendal parents Thomas Fredrich Arentz and Helene Christine born Fredriksen
#13 Hans Christian Tvedt b. 27 June 1850 in Stavanger parents Nils Tvedt and Anne Christine born Clausen
Other considerations when searching would be that Hans being the son of a Joseph could be called Hans Josefsen / Josephsen rather than Hans Tonsen / Tønnesen.
#102 right hand page dødsfallsprotokol for Thomas Fredrik Arentz. Son Hans is mentioned as surviving but living "udlandet" meaning outside of Norway.
Source information: Rogaland county, Eigersund lensmann, Dødsfallsprotokoll (SAST/A-100171/Gga/L0003), 1878-1895, oppb: Statsarkivet i Stavanger.
Remarks: "Fortegnelse over anmeldte Dødsfald i Egersunds Thinglag"
Permanent page-link: http://arkivverket.no/URN:sk_read/51889/47/
Here are the parents of Hans #13.
http://gda.arkivverket.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=6&filnamn=f61103&gardpostnr=1309&personpostnr=14292&merk=14292#ovre
According to 1865 census Niels Tvedt was aged 57 and born in Bergen. Using the baptism database covering dates up to 1815 finds only one Niels whose father's last name also includes Tve:
http://gda.arkivverket.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=26&filnamn=dp12011668&gardpostnr=54330&personpostnr=159922&merk=159922#ovre
Of these 2 examples, the actual patronymic which might have been used by these people is not clear in the record since it appears that Tvedt and Arentz were being used as inheritable surnames. Your name Tonsen / Tønnesen is a patronymic.
Confirmations generally occur at age 15 or so and when a sailing career begins it is generally right after confirmation which could mean Hans may have already been out of his parents household before the 1865 census (which was actually conducted 1 Jan 1866.
These two names can be safely eliminated as Hans Arentz lived in England in both 1891 and 1901 and Hans Christian Tvedt married in Norway and had a brood of children. |
Edited by - jkmarler on 23/07/2014 01:13:22 |
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KerrieTonsen
Junior member
Australia
38 Posts |
Posted - 21/07/2014 : 12:35:40
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Thank you so much for your response - at least it is a starting point.
I thinks my relative Hans Tonsen was in Australia from a reasonably young age - probably around 17 or 18 years of age.
His first child, born 1873 was called Josephine Hans Tonsen, and his first son born 1876 was called Nils Hans Joseph Tonsen. Given that people often named children after their own family members, I thought this have been the case with my relative. |
KAT |
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KerrieTonsen
Junior member
Australia
38 Posts |
Posted - 21/07/2014 : 12:56:31
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PS - I haven't been able to locate exactly when Hans Tonsen arrived in Australia - I am assuming he was a crew member of a ship, since his occupation in Australia was as a Master Mariner. He obtained certification for Coastal Waters.
He died in January 1906 at age 54 (according to death certificate) - so birth was around 1851 - he died from internal injuries (burst spleen) - so I am assuming it was as a result of injury on board a ship. He lived a very respectable life, so I cannot imagine any other reason for such an injury. |
KAT |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9216 Posts |
Posted - 21/07/2014 : 16:33:37
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If you search the All Norway, Select Baptisms, 1634-1927 of Ancestry.com results for Hans Ton* born 1851 +/- 2 for county of Rogaland you get only two matches. These two, neither are a good match for the parents you have listed.
Name: Hans Gabriel Tønnesen
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 20 aug 1852
Baptism Date: 15 sep 1852
Baptism Place: Heskestad, Rogaland, Norway
Father: Tønnes Atlagsen
Mother: Helene Petersdatter
FHL Film Number: 307136
Reference ID: bk7 p141 cn22
Name: Hans Julius Tønnesen
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 8 okt 1853 (8 Oct 1853)
Baptism Date: 16 okt 1853 (16 Oct 1853)
Baptism Place: Stavanger, Rogaland, Norway
Father: Tønnes Gillie
Mother: Ane Jonasdatter
FHL Film Number: 307144
Reference ID: vol 13 |
Edited by - AntonH on 21/07/2014 16:34:14 |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 21/07/2014 : 17:05:10
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We are perhaps looking for;
Hans Josephsen born ca 1850, parents, Joseph Tønnesen and (/Kristine/Kirstine/Christine) Christina (unkown lastname) |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9216 Posts |
Posted - 21/07/2014 : 17:28:54
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Following the Kåre approach and using Ancestry.com, I find only one candidate. Still not a great fit.
Name: Hans Jacob Johansen
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 29 sep 1850
Baptism Place: , Sokndal, Rogaland, Norway
Father: Jonas Tonnesen
Mother: Inger Sophie Berntsdr
FHL Film Number: 126310 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9216 Posts |
Posted - 21/07/2014 : 22:02:28
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Might be him as a crew member and is listed as A B ie Able bodied seaman Column for "Of What Nation" lists Norway.
New South Wales, Australia, Unassisted Immigrant Passenger Lists, 1826-1922
Name: H Tonneson
Estimated birth year: abt 1858
Age: 30
Port of Departure: Levuka & Sewa Fiji
Port of Arrival: Sydney, New South Wales
Voyage Arrival Date: 3 Jun 1888
Vessel Name: Fijian
Origin Location: Norway |
Edited by - AntonH on 21/07/2014 22:04:00 |
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KerrieTonsen
Junior member
Australia
38 Posts |
Posted - 22/07/2014 : 10:44:47
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Thank you everyone for the assistance given in the above posts - at least I have somewhere to start looking. I made a mistake with the years of birth of Hans' children - the first was born in 1876 in Sydney, NSW, Australia, so presumably he was here before about 1875 at least (to have fathered a child :) )
In case it is not clear from my first posts - the information about the children of Hans Tonsen comes from records of their births in Australia - he and Elizabeth Jack (his Wife) had 10 children.
Elizabeth was living in Newcastle in late 1872 - I believe she moved to Sydney after her 1st Husband tried to murder her in December of that year. He was acquitted on the grounds of insanity and sent to an asylum
The first 7 of Hans and Elizabeth's children were born in Sydney - the last 3 in the Newcastle area (where his family settled and where a few of his descendants still live) |
KAT |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 22/07/2014 : 11:05:27
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| Do you have Hans' and Elizabeth's marriage record? |
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KerrieTonsen
Junior member
Australia
38 Posts |
Posted - 22/07/2014 : 11:06:30
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There is evidence that Hans was certified for his Masters & Marine Pilots certificate in Newcastle, Australia by March 1880. So it is possible he was working in the Newcastle waters for many years. He and Elizabeth had 5 children born after that 1880 date in Sydney (only 2 lived past 3 years of age - which may have been why they moved out of Sydney)
Also, Australian records often have names mispelled because of the way the record taker phonetically "heard" the name being said - and often people of a certain origin were given "nicknames" to identify them as, sy, German or Scottish etc - so it is often "pot luck" that a record taker hearing the name in a Scandinavian accent would get the spelling correct - unless written in English |
KAT |
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KerrieTonsen
Junior member
Australia
38 Posts |
Posted - 22/07/2014 : 11:10:44
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I am not sure that Hans & Elizabeth "legally" married - it was not possible to get a divorce in Australia until 1873 at the earliest - and more generally from 1893
Elizabeth had been legally married in 1869 in Newcastle Australia to the man who subsequently tried to kill her by cutting her throat with a razor.
He escaped from the Asylum (which was near Sydney) in 1882, which may have been another reason for her and Hans to leave Sydney and return to Newcastle
All 10 of the children were registered with the surname "Tonsen" and show Hans Tonsen and Elizabeth as their parents. |
KAT |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 22/07/2014 : 13:18:11
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I starts to believe that Hans was born outside Stavanger, that Stavanger was the nearest town and that he used that.
Ca 800 were named Josef/Joseph in the 1865 census in Norway.
Tonsen is not Norwegian, perhaps changed from Tønnesen, Thomasen.
Tønnes, Tønnesen, very common in that area.
Kåre |
Edited by - Kåarto on 22/07/2014 13:25:40 |
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KerrieTonsen
Junior member
Australia
38 Posts |
Posted - 22/07/2014 : 13:40:16
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Kåre, you may be right - correct spelling was not greatly appreciated in the earliest years of this country - there was no central recording system for births deaths and marriage in NSW until 1856 - before that time from first white settlement in 1788, most records were only kept by churches of Baptisms and marriages
Shipping records show a ? Tonsen, aged 35 as a cook on board the ship SMYRNA out of London in 1878 but he was said to be from Denmark.
Hans may not have even been Norweigan, I can only go on the information supplied to the authorities by his Australian born Wife (of Scottish parents) and recorded on his death certificate by the authorities
I have search all the records I can find in Australia under Tonsen, Tonneson, Tonison, Tonsin, Thonsen, Thomsen, & Tonson (which is how some of the children were recorded) - everything I can find, relating to Hans (& Elizabeth) records his name as Hans Tonsen
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 22/07/2014 : 15:26:44
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There is no reason to belive that Hans was not Norwegian.
Hans was/is very common in Norway.
Hans kept the Norwegian ending -sen in Tonsen unlike most emigrants who changed to -son.
And his mother was Christina, Kristine/Kirstine, very common Norwegian name.
Kåre |
Edited by - Kåarto on 22/07/2014 16:19:53 |
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HANS TONSEN
