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KerrieTonsen
Junior member
Australia
38 Posts |
 Posted - 21/09/2015 : 07:01:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Kåarto
Not to create confusions.
I wonder if Tonsen is a dead end, if it was a name he chose for reasons we do not know.
We have Hans Jørgen with parents Joseph and Christina (Kristine-Kirstine)
Kåre
Kare
I have only recently found a Ship arriving in Australia in Sydney, NSW, Australia on 2nd July, 1874 from "the South Seas Islands" - name of ship is the Duke of Edinburgh - there was an Able Seaman by the name of "Nils M Thonsen" aged 26 (therefore birth abt 1848) from Norway on board this ship. The year fits with about when my Hans Tonsen would have met up with his common law Wife, Elizabeth in Newcastle, NSW, Australia (abt 1874 or 1875, since their first child's birth is registered as Feb 1876
Also, my "Hans Tonsen" was referred to as "Nils Hans Joseph Tonsen" as the father named in the marriage certificate of his first born son, "Neils Has Josephson Tonsen" who married Annie Nelson in Newcastle, NSW, Australia in 1907..
So I am now thinking perhaps the name we should be looking for is NILS. One of the sons born to my Hans Tonsen was named Thomas Martin Tonsen ???, So possibly the seaman who arrived in 1874 was Nils Martin Tonsen - the records clerks in those days spelled names the way they sounded, not necessarily who they should have been spelled.
I can find no further record of the Nils M Thonsen who arrived in Syndey in July 1874 - if he absconded from the ship at that time, he may have changed his name to Hans ?? |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 21/09/2015 : 15:52:05
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| On page 2 of this topic a Nils Tonsen in Australia was mentioned. He died age 54 in 1899. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 22/09/2015 : 08:30:06
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Here is the birth/baptism record of a Nils Josefsen #103. His parents are Josef Thomassen and Trolsianne Nilsdatter:
Kildeinformasjon: Rogaland fylke, Skudenes, Ministerialbok nr. A 3.1 (1847-1863), Fødte og døpte 1851, side 41.
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=1656&idx_id=1656&uid=ny&idx_side=-53
Here is the family in the 1865 census:
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/en-gb/ft/person/pf01038219001568
001 01 Trolseana Nilsdatter 35 Skudesnæs Prgj. Husmoder e Gbr Leilænding
002 01 Thomas M. Josefsen 16 Skudesnæs Prgj. hendes Søn ug bestyrer Gaardsbruget
003 01 Nils Josefsen 15 Skudesnæs Prgj. hendes Søn ug bestyrer Gaardsbruget
004 01 Josefine K. Josefsdatter 13 Skudesnæs Prgj. hendes Datter ug
005 01 Christian Josefsen 11 Skudesnæs Prgj. hendes Søn ug
006 01 Berthe S. Josefsdatter 9 Skudesnæs Prgj. hendes Datter ug
007 01 Johan Josefsen 7 Skudesnæs Prgj. hendes Søn ug
008 02 Bodille Johannesdatter 67 Skudesnæs Prgj. e Føderaadskone
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Edited by - jkmarler on 22/09/2015 08:34:57 |
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KerrieTonsen
Junior member
Australia
38 Posts |
Posted - 22/09/2015 : 10:12:12
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quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
Here is the birth/baptism record of a Nils Josefsen #103. His parents are Josef Thomassen and Trolsianne Nilsdatter:
Kildeinformasjon: Rogaland fylke, Skudenes, Ministerialbok nr. A 3.1 (1847-1863), Fødte og døpte 1851, side 41.
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=1656&idx_id=1656&uid=ny&idx_side=-53
Here is the family in the 1865 census:
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/en-gb/ft/person/pf01038219001568
001 01 Trolseana Nilsdatter 35 Skudesnæs Prgj. Husmoder e Gbr Leilænding
002 01 Thomas M. Josefsen 16 Skudesnæs Prgj. hendes Søn ug bestyrer Gaardsbruget
003 01 Nils Josefsen 15 Skudesnæs Prgj. hendes Søn ug bestyrer Gaardsbruget
004 01 Josefine K. Josefsdatter 13 Skudesnæs Prgj. hendes Datter ug
005 01 Christian Josefsen 11 Skudesnæs Prgj. hendes Søn ug
006 01 Berthe S. Josefsdatter 9 Skudesnæs Prgj. hendes Datter ug
007 01 Johan Josefsen 7 Skudesnæs Prgj. hendes Søn ug
008 02 Bodille Johannesdatter 67 Skudesnæs Prgj. e Føderaadskone
This sounds promising, especially since I found the maritime record of the ship "Duke of Edinburgh" arriving in Australia in 1874 from the South Seas Islands with a "Nils M Thomsen" aged (supposedly 26) as an Able Seaman as part of the crew - this fits with the timing of my Hans Tonsen working on the Dredge "Sarah" in Newcastle Harbour in 1875
Having a father by the name of Josef Thomassen fits with all of the names of the children in his family. With a mother having the last name Nilsdatter would also fit.
I can't find any other record of the name Trolsianne or Trolseana in Nordic names - could it be a version of Kristiane or Christiana ?? |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9224 Posts |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9224 Posts |
Posted - 22/09/2015 : 22:03:28
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Interesting in this record for one of the sons of Trolsiana and Josef, her name is listed as Trolsiane Kristine Nilsdatter.
Thomas Martin Josefsen
in the Norway, Select Baptisms, 1634-1927
Name: Thomas Martin Josefsen
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 8 jul 1850
Baptism Date: 14 jul 1850
Baptism Place: Ferkingstad,Rogaland,Norway
Father: Joseph Thomasen
Mother: Trolsiane Kristine Nilsdr
FHL Film Number: 126306
See also number 100.
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=1656&idx_id=1656&uid=ny&idx_side=-41 |
Edited by - AntonH on 22/09/2015 22:06:07 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9224 Posts |
Posted - 22/09/2015 : 22:13:03
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And in her marriage record Trulsiane is also listed with the Christine name.
Trulsiane Christine Nielsdatter
in the Norway, Select Marriages, 1660-1926
Name: Trulsiane Christine Nielsdatter
[Trulsiane Christine Knudsen]
Gender: Female
Marital Status: Single
Age: 18
Birth Date: 1831
Marriage Date: 27 nov 1849
Marriage Place: Skudenes, Rogaland, Norway
Father: Niels Knudsen
Spouse: Joseph Thomassen
FHL Film Number: 307141
Reference ID: B-3 P331-E32
See also number 32
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=1657&idx_id=1657&uid=ny&idx_side=-13 |
Edited by - AntonH on 22/09/2015 22:16:45 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 23/09/2015 : 03:01:49
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So Trolsianne is also a Kristine! Woohoo!
Wasn't there an online version of a bygdebok for Skudenes? |
Edited by - jkmarler on 23/09/2015 03:13:48 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9224 Posts |
Posted - 23/09/2015 : 04:02:55
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Yes, but not the easiest to use.
http://www.slektsforumkarmoy.no/b-bok/gardsliste.html
However if you combine it with the Family Tree from above you can wind your way through the farms to Åkra Brn number 38 to Josef Tommassen and Trulsiane Kristine Nilsdatter and family on page 42 of section on Åkra. Nils is listed as a child but no further info is given.
2. 1845-1879: Josef Tomassen, født 1826, død 1859
Sønn av Tomas Kristoffersen og Bodel Johannesdatter ”Forrige bruker
Gift i 1849 med Trulsiane Kristine Nilsdatter, født 1831, død 1908
Datter av Nils Knutsen og Serine Eliasdatter Ӂkra bnr. 33
Barn:
a) Tomas Martin født: 1850 Gift med Anna Marta Sjursdatter ”Neste bruker
b) Nils født: 1851
c) Josefine Karine født: 1853 Gift med Ola Olsen Oppigard ”Åkra bnr. 39
d) Jon Kristian født: 1855 Død 1878
e) Berta Serine født: 1857 Gift med Kornelius Jonsen ”Dyrland bnr 2
f) Ole Johan født: 1859 ”Åkra bnr. 39
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Edited by - AntonH on 23/09/2015 04:14:12 |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 23/09/2015 : 06:28:43
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Has this tree for Hans Tonsen been posted?
http://stuart.scss.dyndns.info/FamilyTree/individual.php?pid=I53416&ged=Gregory-Hudson.ged
The chart format makes it easy to notice the similarity of names to the Joseph Tommasen family - Nils, Joseph and Josephine (the feminine version of Joseph), Thomas Martin (a distinctive combination), Christine, Sarah (an Anglicized Serine?).
About Trolsianne - maybe it's a feminine version of Truels. |
Edited by - JaneC on 23/09/2015 07:55:25 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 23/09/2015 : 08:43:45
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Here is Trolsianne's dødfalls[protocol #16:
Kildeinformasjon: Rogaland fylke, Skudenes lensmann, Dødsfallsprotokoll (SAST/A-100444/Gga/L0003), 1908-1912, oppb: Statsarkivet i Stavanger.
Merknader: "Dødsfalds-Protokol"
Permanent sidelenke: http://arkivverket.no/URN:sk_read/51948/7/
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KerrieTonsen
Junior member
Australia
38 Posts |
Posted - 24/09/2015 : 07:35:38
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quote:
Originally posted by JaneC
Has this tree for Hans Tonsen been posted?
http://stuart.scss.dyndns.info/FamilyTree/individual.php?pid=I53416&ged=Gregory-Hudson.ged
The chart format makes it easy to notice the similarity of names to the Joseph Tommasen family - Nils, Joseph and Josephine (the feminine version of Joseph), Thomas Martin (a distinctive combination), Christine, Sarah (an Anglicized Serine?).
About Trolsianne - maybe it's a feminine version of Truels.
JaneC
I haven't seen that tree that that person has been in contact with me, and most of his information came from the family tree that I have made public in ancestry.com :)
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KerrieTonsen
Junior member
Australia
38 Posts |
Posted - 24/09/2015 : 12:49:37
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| Thank you so much for all of the hard work - jkmarler, JaneC, and lyndal40 - I am really quite excited that we may just have cracked this one !!!!! - it FEELS like it is right to me :) :) - my son Jason Tonsen (and my ex-husband, Steven Tonsen - yes we still get along) will be so excited |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9224 Posts |
Posted - 24/09/2015 : 17:33:17
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Curious that he would adopt the name of Hans. Does not seem to be a name used in his family tree, at least not that I could find. Anyway this is likely a death record for the brother Thomas Martin.
Thomas M Josefsen
in the Web: Norway Burial Index, DIS-Norge, 1700-2010
Name: Thomas M Josefsen
Gender: male
Death Date: 12 Oct 1909
Burial Place: Karmøy, Rogaland, Norway
Age: 59
Birth Date: 8 Jul 1850
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Edited by - AntonH on 24/09/2015 17:50:12 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 24/09/2015 : 18:05:04
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There are other things to consider also. Nils Josefsen is listed as a survivor of his mother at her death in 1908 which would not be true if Hans=Nils since Hans died in 1906. Granted there could be several origins for such a situation--long distance of Australia to Norway leading to lack of communication etc.
Neither Hans Tonsen nor Nils Josefsen are found in the online index of sailor's rolls of Stavanger. Likewise several conditions might lead to this situation.
The original information at the beginning given by poster says that Hans Tonsen was born in Stavanger about 1850 to parents Joseph and Christine Tonsen. These facts were taken from Hans Tonsen's death record in 1906 in Australia.
We have not found a person of that name who answers each of the beginning facts. Even though a number of people in Norway were already inheriting surnames, the majority were still practicing the patronymic way of naming, which means it more likely that Hans would have been a Josefsen than a Tonsen in Norway.
Skudenes (and Aakre in Skudenes) is only a short distance to Stavanger so the geography is favorable.
Nils Josefsen from Aakre has only a slight presence in Norwegian records, his baptism, the 1865 census and a mention in the bygdebok and in his mother's estate record. He does not appear in the online index of Norwegian 1875 census (not comprehensive), the 1900 census nor 1910 census, so where is he?
Since some step grandchildren of Trolsianne's are mentioned in her death record, are any of Trolsianne's children mentioned in the estate record of her 2nd husband?
Ole Adnesen Aakre #11:
Kildeinformasjon: Rogaland fylke, Skudenes lensmann, Dødsfallsprotokoll (SAST/A-100444/Gga/L0001), 1884-1899, oppb: Statsarkivet i Stavanger.
Merknader: "Dødsliste"
Permanent sidelenke: http://arkivverket.no/URN:sk_read/51946/63/
Mentions 4 grown children at least one of whom is in America. There is a line about the widow but nothing I see about the stepchildren.
The estate record of Nils Josefsen's brother #3 Thomas Martin Josefsen:
Kildeinformasjon: Rogaland fylke, Skudenes lensmann, Dødsfallsprotokoll (SAST/A-100444/Gga/L0003), 1908-1912, oppb: Statsarkivet i Stavanger.
Merknader: "Dødsfalds-Protokol"
Permanent sidelenke: http://arkivverket.no/URN:sk_read/51948/26/
Survivors are the wife and deceased soskens d [aughter?]
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Edited by - jkmarler on 24/09/2015 18:26:32 |
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HANS TONSEN
