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tkoller
Medium member
Norway
89 Posts |
 Posted - 09/01/2015 : 22:09:26
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Todays reply from Chuck Carletta. It's about what we have found earlier.
chuckcarletta
To: tkoller@bbnett.no, 4 of 4 messages, view conversation
Subject: RE: Sophia Datz
Hi Tarald, I was able to check on your question today. The part of my Carletta Family Tree that contains Sopia Datz was connected to one of my cousins and I found most of the information in another tree called the "Hodgdon Family Tree". The owner of this tree is Brandie Kopsas. I would suggest that you look her up in ancestry.com (profiles) and try to contact her. I noticed that the "Hodgdon Family Tree" is not shown in her profile, but if you access the tree it shows her as the owner. To find this tree you could do a search in ancestry.com for public member trees containing "Evelyn Freda Glawe" b 1905. It will come up at the top of the list of trees. I looked at some of the details for Sopia Datz b1885 in Illinois. The 1910 US census for her indicates that both her father and mother were born in Norway and that she was born in Cook County Illinois. The Hodgdon Family Tree shows her mother as "Chrsitina Datz" (married name) but indicates that she was born in Germany in 1848. Her father's birthplace is also shown as Germany in this tree. So there is a significant inconsistency here. That's about all I have for you. Good luck in sorting this out. Aloha, Chuck
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tarokol |
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tkoller
Medium member
Norway
89 Posts |
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tkoller
Medium member
Norway
89 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2015 : 23:11:48
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Edward Datz Jr.
United States Census, 1930
Name: Edward Datz Jr.
Titles and Terms: Jr
Event Type: Census
Event Year: 1930
Event Place: Chicago (Districts 1001-1250), Cook, Illinois, United States
Gender: Male
Age: 9
Marital Status: Single
Race: White
Race (Original): White
Relationship to Head of Household: Son
Relationship to Head of Household (Original): Son
Birth Year (Estimated): 1921
Birthplace: Illinois
Father's Birthplace: Illinois
Mother's Birthplace: Illinois
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
John Howe Head M 68 Minnesota
Agnes Howe Wife F 66 Wisconsin
Edward Datz Sr. Head M 49 Illinois
Sophie Datz Wife F 44 Illinois
Ferdinand Datz Son M 22 Illinois
Edward Datz Jr. Son M 9 Illinois
Alice Datz Daughter F 4 Illinois
District: 1205 , Sheet Number and Letter: 20A , Household ID: 367 , Line Number: 19 , Affiliate Name: The U.S. National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) , Affiliate Publication Number: T626 , Affiliate Film Number: 468 , GS Film number: 2340203 , Digital Folder Number: 004584269 , Image Number: 00274
Is the Howe's the people that took care of Sopie and Amy wen Jennie died? And nowbody told Peter. Then the conektion to Norway brooke?
The way is to trace some living descendants from Edward Datz. If some have access to phone book it might bee posible.
I have found one Edward (Eddie) at a High school in Florida from 2012. A little oldinfo.
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Edited by - tkoller on 10/01/2015 15:55:14 |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2015 : 23:50:40
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| On page 5 is posted an excerpt of an obituary for Sophie's son Edward Datz. No children are named. Survivors are his wife (but she later died) and his sister Alice, married name Markus, in Clearwater, Florida, and Alice's daughters. I don't post names and identifying information of living persons, but just use Google Search to bring up the whole obit (in the Saint Petersburg Times) and find the names of the daughters. Online white pages or Facebook might be a way to contact them. |
Edited by - JaneC on 09/01/2015 23:58:16 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2015 : 07:22:32
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Regarding Peter's and Jennie's two divorces, I think the first one, the suit for separate maintenance on grounds of desertion was Peter's suit expressing his displeasure at Jenny having gone home to Norway for too long. The second one was Jennie's suit of Peter on grounds of adultery since he'd found someone else to marry, possibly someone Jenny knew.
Even though he seemed to have a troubled marital history, Peter did seem to want his children. So after his third marriage seemed to be succeeding he brought his children from his first marriage back to US.
If Jenny died, wouldn't he also have wanted his daughter? |
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tkoller
Medium member
Norway
89 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2015 : 09:06:54
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I don't think Jennie's daughters was wisiting Norway after 1886. In the cort after the death of her father it was said they had ot heard from her for 27 years, that makes 1886. Amy was not with Jennie atvthe sencus 1885 the 31 of December. She most have been left back in US.
There is also Ferdinand Datz 22 years in 1930. It was long time between Ferdinand and Edward 9. |
tarokol |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2015 : 14:11:07
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Agreed, TOK, that seemingly Eva Sophie probably didn't return to Norway.
About the suit for separate maintenance Dec 1886 and the suit for divorce Dec 1887,
the first is "Jennie vs Peter" and the second is "Peter vs Jennie."
Standard procedure is to place the plaintiff's name first.
Jennie sues, charging desertion.
Peter then countersues, charging adultery.
Whether the standard procedure is reflected in the newspaper stories, we don't know, but at this time we have no evidence to the contrary. (None posted in this thread - Maybe you are saying you read a more complete story?)
I suppose copies of those court cases could be ordered and more details discovered.
The final divorce decree should address the custody of minor children. Those papers would reveal whether Eva Sophie is living as of December 1887.
Did Peter want custody, or if Jennie died, did he want Eva Sophie with him? I agree it is possible. We don't know that, but we do know she is not with him in 1900. Also we know he has two children in Norway who are motherless. As Caroline Sophie's probate shows, Peter has not even been of any financial help. Caroline Sophie's father is supporting them. One possible scenario is the grandfather / grandparents died and the children are adrift and this is when Peter returns for them. Peter could be a rich deadbeat dad, but the evidence seems more to suggest he may not have the financial wherewithal to send money to his children in Norway and same problem could apply, to taking charge of Eva Sophie, if Jennie died. If Peter had Eva Sophie with him during his marriage to Caspara, that increases the likelihood, a little, that Caspara's descendants know more about her.
Well, obviously one keeps an open mind (or we try to) in guessing what people did, and why. We speculate because that can suggest possible lines of inquiry.
By 1900, Eva Sophie is about 15, old enough to live and work away from a parent. It will be difficult to shine a light on her life 1887 onward until she is (theoretically) findable in 1900. One possibility in addition to the divorce decree is the documentation around Peter's death (the inquest; a possible probate).
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Edited by - JaneC on 10/01/2015 14:48:36 |
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tkoller
Medium member
Norway
89 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2015 : 17:00:38
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| On wich day of the year was the sencus of 1900, 1910, 1920 and 1940, taken? |
tarokol |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2015 : 20:56:59
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US Census Days
June 1, 1900
April 15, 1910
January 1, 1920
April 1, 1930
April 1, 1940
US Census link |
Edited by - JaneC on 10/01/2015 20:57:40 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2015 : 04:38:52
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| Jane's most recent weddings post names except Peter Myers struck through. |
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tkoller
Medium member
Norway
89 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2015 : 10:38:38
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I got from Mike Jaska Owner
Tarold--
You may be right. I found her name Jaska using Family Search. According to Family Search, she was married to Peter Olaf Johnson on 24 May 1884 in Cook County, Illinois (city was probably Chicago). He was age 33, she was age 26. Birth years were estimated as 1851 for him, 1858 for her.
GS Film Number 1030139
Digital Folder Number 4273389
Image Number 952
Reference ID 82195
If her name is actually Jorstad, I'd be glad to change it. Unfortunately, this was the only place I found her. If she settled in Illinois or one of the surrounding states; as additional graves are documented, Peter's grave and her grave are likely to be found.
If I can be of further help please ask again.
Sincerely,
Mike Jaska |
tarokol |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2015 : 13:40:07
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quote:
Originally posted by tkoller
I got from Mike Jaska Owner
Tarold--
You may be right. I found her name Jaska using Family Search. According to Family Search, she was married to Peter Olaf Johnson on 24 May 1884 in Cook County, Illinois (city was probably Chicago). He was age 33, she was age 26. Birth years were estimated as 1851 for him, 1858 for her.
GS Film Number 1030139
Digital Folder Number 4273389
Image Number 952
Reference ID 82195
If her name is actually Jorstad, I'd be glad to change it. Unfortunately, this was the only place I found her. If she settled in Illinois or one of the surrounding states; as additional graves are documented, Peter's grave and her grave are likely to be found.
If I can be of further help please ask again.
Sincerely,
Mike Jaska
Apparently, Mike hasn't looked at the original record either and is in the same situation we are. We can only rely on "interpretations" of evidence, the two sets of indexers of the marriage record, one at familysearch and the other at Illinois secretary of state. Sophie's birth record has also been indexed with 2 interpretations of her mother's maiden name, Jorstad and Sorstad. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7765 Posts |
Posted - 12/01/2015 : 00:01:40
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A few Jennie Johnson odds and ends from the newspaper Chicago Daily Inter-Ocean. Not enough information in any to draw any conclusions.
18 Oct 1887
Criminal Court, Judge Williamson presiding
"491 Jenny Johnson, larceny, sentenced to 30 days in county jail on plea."
7 Mar 1888
(abstracted) Bessie Benson aka Jennie Johnson arrested & held. She was "a street walker by regular occupation, but occasionally went out in service" which is what she was employed as when caught. She was visited by Nellie McCarthy when her employer was out of the house and Nellie robbed the place. Nellie was supposed to split the proceeds with Jennie after the goods were sold but so far had neglected to do. Jennie's bond amounted to $600 and she is being held at Criminal court awaiting capture of Nellie.
11 Feb 1889
An brief obituary (abstracted) of Miss Jennie Johnson who died 9 Feb 1889 at Centralia, Illinois. She aged 37 worked as bookkeeper for the Daily Sentinal for many years.
6 Aug 1890
"128,440 Jennie A. Johnson vs John P Johnson bill for divorce for desertions M.A. DeLacy, atty."
12 Oct 1890
A longish paragraph tells that Mrs. Jennie A. Johnson tells that her husband married her in 1884 in Colorado and then sent her home to her people in Chicago and other grievances.
7 Nov 1890
4,506 Jennie A. Johnson from John P Johnson for desertion
10 Nov 1890
A very long article William D. Bennett charged with attempting to poison his wife. Her maiden name not given but her first husband's surname was Reed and she was his widow. Her second husband's last name was Johnson and he was a businessman in Indiana and she was divorced from him and then came to Chicago and married William Bennett on 12 Dec 1887. Lots of other details.
24 Feb 1891
Classified Ad
"Domestic
Situation wanted by woman to work days only; must go home at night; washing and ironing preferred. Mrs. Jennie Johnson 51 Gault Place."
3 Mar 1891
Circuit Court
"89,316 John C. Johnson vs Jenny Johnson bill for divorce for desertion. Rudolph T. Hustagh, solr."
22 Mar 1892
Article titled "A disappointed lover says he will kill the girl who jilted him"
Martin Corbett courted Miss Jennie Johnson but she rebuffed his attentions. She was then living at No. 478 Wabash Ave (so about Mar 1891). She then moved to No 147 South Peoria and the harassment continued escalating until Martin was arrested. No word on final disposition.
13 May 1892
A Miss Jennie Johnson who was residing in the Paul Nesi household at 5349 Lake Avenue was poisoned by gas due to careless treatment of the fixture. A total of 4 people including Jennie were sickened but all survived.
30 June 1893
Found Insane: Sophie Johnson
22 Sept 1893
Probate Court, Judge Kohlsatt presiding
"Guardianship: Est (stands for Estate) Jennie C.E. Johnson, et. al. Letters to John Dreier Bond $10,500."
12 Oct 1893
Obituary for:
Johnson--at No 65 North Center Ave. Jennie Johnson funeral Oct 12 at 3 o'clock, remains to be taken to Shickley, Neb. for interment
25 Jan 1894
Longish paragraph under the heading "Found True Bills" stating Peter Hammerling was indicted on 3 charges of attempted assault upon Matilda Berger, Annie Berger and Jennie Johnson and also on a charge of robbery.
31 Jan 1896
Building Permits is the heading.
"Jennie M. Johnson, two story frame residence at 446 Cuviers Ave $1,200."
6 May 1896
Superior Court, Judgements Judge Windes presiding
"7887, Mrs. Jennie Johnson vs City of Chicago on finding $800."
3 June 1896
Building Permits issued
"Mrs. Jennie Johnson, two story basement brick flats at 717 Carmen Avenue $2,500."
16 June 1896 & 24 June 1896
Prosecution of William Raugruth with Northwest Real Estate Loan Co. for obtaining money by false pretenses. Three others named including Jennie Johnson. "Miss Johnson, it was alleged by complainants was in league with Raugruth and shared in alleged ill-gotten gains. This Raugruth and Miss Johnson denied. Raugruth declared that she was simply a clerk in his office and received a regular salary. However both were held."
28 June 1896
Judge Foster issued a "$110 judgement against Charles D. Berry, the detective and his wife in suit brought by Mrs. Jennie Johnson, keeper of the Hotel Arline at Wabash Avenue and Harrison Street to recover the value of a sleigh and lap robe bought from her by Berry last November which he disposed of and did not pay her for."
_______ (missed the date should be in 1896)
Long long article concerning the murder suicide of Harry M. Conway (murdered) and his wife Grace Clarke Conway (suicide) in the rooming house of Mrs. Jennie Johnson at 951 West Madison Street.
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Edited by - jkmarler on 12/01/2015 00:23:31 |
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tkoller
Medium member
Norway
89 Posts |
Posted - 13/01/2015 : 13:15:36
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Cencus 1885 Kristiania ( Oslo ) Vinkelgaden 16. This is where Peter Jonson's 1. wife died.
As vitness in court her sister Karen Larsen were present. Acording to her Sofie Johannesen (Johnson)lived with her father whos name must have been Lars. Here is one Lars still living " Lars Olsen". Annethe and Allise can bee Peter Johnson's children. Thei would have been 3 and 10 at their mothers death.
x x x x x x
Navn Fødselsdato Fødested Stilling og stand Bosted Kilde
Nikoline Johansen 1857 Næs Hedemarken Enke Kristiania: Vinkelgaden 16 Folketelling 1885 for 0301 Kristiania kjøpstad
Trine Hellum 1865 Modum Pige Kristiania: Vinkelgaden 16 Folketelling 1885 for 0301 Kristiania kjøpstad
Gina Eriksen 1827 Sarpsborg Enke Kristiania: Vinkelgaden 16 Folketelling 1885 for 0301 Kristiania kjøpstad
Elvine Eriksen 1861 Sarpsborg Pige Kristiania: Vinkelgaden 16 Folketelling 1885 for 0301 Kristiania kjøpstad
Marie Johansen 1858 Sarpsborg Enke Kristiania: Vinkelgaden 16 Folketelling 1885 for 0301 Kristiania kjøpstad
Karl Johansen 1876 Kristiania Søn Kristiania: Vinkelgaden 16 Folketelling 1885 for 0301 Kristiania kjøpstad
Johan Johansen 1880 Kristiania Søn Kristiania: Vinkelgaden 16 Folketelling 1885 for 0301 Kristiania kjøpstad
Elvine Johansen 1882 Kristiania Datter Kristiania: Vinkelgaden 16 Folketelling 1885 for 0301 Kristiania kjøpstad
Anna Johannesen 1812 Urskog Pige Kristiania: Vinkelgaden 16 Folketelling 1885 for 0301 Kristiania kjøpstad
Marie Lorntsen 1817 Urskog Enke Kristiania: Vinkelgaden 16 Folketelling 1885 for 0301 Kristiania kjøpstad
Hans Haagensen 1823 Bærum Snedker Kristiania: Vinkelgaden 16 Folketelling 1885 for 0301 Kristiania kjøpstad
Segvart Lie 1849 Laurvig Sadelmager Kristiania: Vinkelgaden 16 Folketelling 1885 for 0301 Kristiania kjøpstad
Helene Lie 1844 Smaalenene Hustru Kristiania: Vinkelgaden 16 Folketelling 1885 for 0301 Kristiania kjøpstad
Karl Lie 1872 Fredrikshald Søn Kristiania: Vinkelgaden 16 Folketelling 1885 for 0301 Kristiania kjøpstad
Marie Lie 1873 Kristiania Datter Kristiania: Vinkelgaden 16 Folketelling 1885 for 0301 Kristiania kjøpstad
Signe Lie 1875 Kristiania Datter Kristiania: Vinkelgaden 16 Folketelling 1885 for 0301 Kristiania kjøpstad
Oskar Lie 1877 Kristiania Søn Kristiania: Vinkelgaden 16 Folketelling 1885 for 0301 Kristiania kjøpstad
Ragnild Lie 1879 Kristiania Datter Kristiania: Vinkelgaden 16 Folketelling 1885 for 0301 Kristiania kjøpstad
Helene Lie 1881 Kristiania Datter Kristiania: Vinkelgaden 16 Folketelling 1885 for 0301 Kristiania kjøpstad
Haakon Lie 1884 Kristiania Søn Kristiania: Vinkelgaden 16 Folketelling 1885 for 0301 Kristiania kjøpstad
Berthe Hansen 1833 Nordland Pige Kristiania: Vinkelgaden 16 Folketelling 1885 for 0301 Kristiania kjøpstad
Kari Nilsen 1860 Sverige Pige Kristiania: Vinkelgaden 16 Folketelling 1885 for 0301 Kristiania kjøpstad
Martinius Amundsen 1843 Næs Hedemarken Kontorist Kristiania: Vinkelgaden 16 Folketelling 1885 for 0301 Kristiania kjøpstad
Nekoline Amundsen 1841 Kristiania Hustru Kristiania: Vinkelgaden 16 Folketelling 1885 for 0301 Kristiania kjøpstad
Magdalene Amundsen 1874 Kristiania Datter Kristiania: Vinkelgaden 16 Folketelling 1885 for 0301 Kristiania kjøpstad
Thora Amundsen 1877 Kristiania Datter Kristiania: Vinkelgaden 16 Folketelling 1885 for 0301 Kristiania kjøpstad
Nathalie Amundsen 1884 Kristiania Datter Kristiania: Vinkelgaden 16 Folketelling 1885 for 0301 Kristiania kjøpstad
Bernhard Amundsen 1885 Kristiania Søn Kristiania: Vinkelgaden 16 Folketelling 1885 for 0301 Kristiania kjøpstad
Jens Bergendahl 1829 Kristiansand Kontorist Kristiania: Vinkelgaden 16 Folketelling 1885 for 0301 Kristiania kjøpstad
Gulbrand Svendsen 1817 Sansvær Musikus Kristiania: Vinkelgaden 16 Folketelling 1885 for 0301 Kristiania kjøpstad
Elise Svendsen 1857 Kristiania Datter Kristiania: Vinkelgaden 16 Folketelling 1885 for 0301 Kristiania kjøpstad
Marie Tobissen 1838 Risør Jomfru Kristiania: Vinkelgaden 16 Folketelling 1885 for 0301 Kristiania kjøpstad
Lars Olsen 1825 Asker Arbeidsmand Kristiania: Vinkelgaden 16 Folketelling 1885 for 0301 Kristiania kjøpstad
Karen Olsen 1848 Asker Pige Kristiania: Vinkelgaden 16 Folketelling 1885 for 0301 Kristiania kjøpstad
Annethe Olsen 1873 Kristiania Datter Kristiania: Vinkelgaden 16 Folketelling 1885 for 0301 Kristiania kjøpstad
Allise Johansen 1879 Kristiania Datter Kristiania: Vinkelgaden 16 Folketelling 1885 for 0301 Kristiania kjøpstad
Otto Larsen 1863 Kristiania Arbeidskarl Kristiania: Vinkelgaden 16 Folketelling 1885 for 0301 Kristiania kjøpstad
Anna Nilsen 1848 Sverige Sypige Kristiania: Vinkelgaden 16 Folketelling 1885 for 0301 Kristiania kjøpstad
Lina Olsen 1836 Throndhjem Pige Kristiania: Vinkelgaden 16 Folketelling 1885 for 0301 Kristiania kjøpstad
Frithjof Johansen 1865 Kristiania Mekanikker Kristiania: Vinkelgaden 16 Folketelling 1885 for 0301 Kristiania kjøpstad
Mybee Allise is Amy? |
tarokol |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 13/01/2015 : 15:05:19
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Nice find TOK.
Family Search website
Birth-Baptism
Caroline Sophie Larsen
Baptized 17 June 1855 Oslo Domkirken, Akershus, Norway
Parents
Lars Olsen
Petronelle Jensen
link
1865 in Kristiania/Oslo
Lars Olsen 40 born about 1825 Asker
Petronelle Jensdatter 43 b Asker
children including
Karen Helene Larsdatter 17 b abt 1848 Asker
Caroline Larsdatter 11 b abt 1854 Christiania
1865
1875 census in Kristiania
Lars Olsen born 1825 Asker
Petra Olsen b 1823 Asker
with children including
Caren Olsen b 1849 Asker
Sophie Olsen b 1855 Kristiania
1875
It seems the 1865, 1875, and 1885 census are the same family, the same Lars and Karen, and "Allise" in 1885 would be Alice Johnson, daughter of Peter Olaf and Caroline Sophie. Need to check Peter Olaf-Caroline Sophie marriage record. But I wonder where, in the 1885 census, is Jens Peter Sofus Johansen. |
Edited by - JaneC on 14/01/2015 21:56:21 |
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Jenny Amalie Jansen
