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Marlys Nelson
Medium member
USA
77 Posts |
 Posted - 22/08/2015 : 00:22:11
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| The book "Gamal Bondekultur i Gudbrandsdalen: Lesja og Dovre" by Ivar Kleiven has a reference on page 336 to a possible grandmother of mine....Berte Killi. Kleiven writes in a regional dialect that I cannot translate. If anyone has access to this book, could they help me with the last paragraph that relates a folk story about that woman. I would very much appreciate any suggestions you can make! |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 22/08/2015 : 13:31:58
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| Please present the paragraph here; either by a screenshot of the actual page, or writing down the actual text. |
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Marlys Nelson
Medium member
USA
77 Posts |
Posted - 22/08/2015 : 16:20:17
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Her is some of the paragraph:
Kor lengje de kan vera si'a de va ei paa Killi som heitte Berte, veit vel ingen no lenger, men ventelef livde ho ette at skottan for i 1612. Ho skaull' vera dptter aat ein dansk kaftin, ha or'e gaatt, og truleg gifta se innpaa ein taa Killi gar'om. Ho vart saa ofansleg te drikke, ho Berte, at de er de, ho har spord for heilt te denne ti', og denna drykkehugen, skull' bli gjort paa ho taa ein faarandest mann. |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 22/08/2015 : 17:25:30
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A try... 
How long ago there was a woman on Killi named Berte, noone knows anymore, but presumably she lived after the Scots left in 1612. Its presumed she was a daughter after a Danish Captain (according to traditional oral history), and then probably married a man from one of the Killi farms. Berte became a heavy drinker (). She shall have adopted this urge to drinking from a traveler («Romani people» or «Gypsy»). |
Edited by - jwiborg on 22/08/2015 19:08:46 |
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Marlys Nelson
Medium member
USA
77 Posts |
Posted - 22/08/2015 : 18:17:20
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Oh my! Maybe I don't WANT this translated. Here is the entire paragraph. Thanks so much for your help!
Kor lengje de kan vera si'a de va ei paa Killi som heitte
Berte, veit vel ingen no lenger, men venteleg livde ho ette
at skottan for i 1612. Ho skull' vera dotter aat ein dansk
kaftin, ha or'e gaatt, og truleg gifta se innpaa ein taa Killi
gar'om. Ho vart saa ofansleg te drikke, ho Berte, at de er de, ho
har vore spord for heilt te denne ti', og denna drykkjehugen
skull' bli gjort paa ho taa ein faarandest mann. De kom
inn ein langframan kar aat Killi og ba urn drikke og sa’s
va saa utu'maata tyrst. “Nei, eg kan ikje skjiple kollum
mine",svaaraa ho Berte — ho ha ei slik lang ra' med upp
sila kollo og den ha ho ikje hjertlage te, aa taa att nogom
fraa og den framande fekk ikje drikke. Han gjekk te=ders
og sa med di saamaa : „ja har ikje du raa' te aa gje ein
tyrst mann drikke, skal du korraa te aa bli tyrst nok sjol
Og ikje førr va den framande utu gar'e, førr heile kollra’s
henna Berte datt ne' saa mjølk og rumme sto' som eit har.
over stugugolve. Da vart ho Berte anna's ve' og senda eatt
ette' framandekare med ei mjølkeskaal, men da ville'n ikje
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 22/08/2015 : 18:35:51
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The rest of the text is quite hard to understand in detail..., there are some heavy dialect there!
In general, it talks about an episode where a stranger came to the Killi farm, and asked for something to drink. But Berte said no, and he left in anger.
-If you cant afford a drink to a thirsty man, you gonna be very thirsty yourself, he said when he left.
When he left, something fell down in the house, and milk were spilled over the floor. She then went after the stranger and offered him some milk, but he refused...
Strange story! And written down 300 years after it happened? |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 22/08/2015 : 18:44:19
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About the Scots.
They arrived in Norway in the summer of 1612, under the leadership of Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Ramsay, Captain George Sinclair and Captain George Hay. They brought about 300 Scottish mercenaries, and their purpose was to join the Swedish forces in their fight against Denmark-Norway (The Kalmar war 1611-1613). Since the Scots would be armed later, they were only equipped with light weapons. When the expedition arrived Romsdalsfjorden with two ships about 20 August 1612, farmer Ivar Helland guided them along the fjord to Per Jonsson on the farm Klungnes in Eid. Per was captured by the Scottish army and forced to guide them further.
At Verma the valley is very narrow and cramped, so to avoid ambush they went over the mountain. The soldiers went on foot and covered 30-40 km daily, and spent about a week to Otta. During that time the farmers in North Gudbrandsdalen managed to gather an army. At Kringen, south of Otta, the Scots encountered an improvised Norwegian peasant militia, who tricked the Scots into an ambush, where the majority of the force was killed. It is unclear what happened to the survivors, but some were liquidated at Kvam.
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Edited by - jwiborg on 22/08/2015 18:57:29 |
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Marlys Nelson
Medium member
USA
77 Posts |
Posted - 22/08/2015 : 18:48:03
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| Thank you so much for your help. I guess we take the good with the bad.....you aren't able to chose your ancestors after all! |
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Marlys Nelson
Medium member
USA
77 Posts |
Posted - 22/08/2015 : 19:24:13
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| Thanks for the recap about Kringen. A grandfather, Lars Haga, helped organize the farmers. And I have read that they, unfortunately, 'over celebrated' the victory. |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 22/08/2015 : 19:47:53
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The Scottis army of mercenaries came to Norway to support Sweden in the war against Norway/Denmark
I heard on radio 2012 that the surviviors was captured and looked into a barn.
Outside the Norwegians "over celebrated" the victory with alcohol.
During the night one by one of the Scotsmen was taken out of the barn and executed.
Members of the Sinclair clan was in Norway on the 400 anniversary 2012 in Sel in Gudbrandsdalen.
Its told that some of the children born ca 9 mths later in this area are decendants after the Scotsmen.
A close relative to me is acc. to the oral history in his family a Sinclair descendant.
Kåre |
Edited by - Kåarto on 22/08/2015 19:55:10 |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 22/08/2015 : 21:13:08
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A curiosity?
There are great likenesses between the Sinclair Tartan and Rondastakk from N. Gudbrandsdal
Kåre |
Edited by - Kåarto on 22/08/2015 21:18:49 |
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Topic |
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Translation of Ivar Kleiven
